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Majoras Mask Mafia! DGames' Longest Game Ends - Who Won?!?!?!?

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
5,164
Woah, the tone just 180'd.
Wasn't trying to pick a fight. I love Kuz and he's a very good player, but based on his post-game posts, he seems to think that he carried this town, and that just doesn't look accurate from where I'm sitting. He played well; I would never want to take that away from him. I just think town's victory was a genuine joint effort this game—not just between townies, but with the help of the indies too, with a little dumb luck thrown in. Singling Kuz out for his play here doesn't feel right.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
I disagree. I believe I was the clear cut MVP this game. You're entitled to your own opinion and I'm fine with that but I think my performance this game went above and beyond the standard of everyone else's and I really thought it showed.

As for whether or not our interaction in game is influencing your thought process I could care less. I will say I probably went over the line a few times but I did what I had to do to defend myself from the real possibility of a lynch. No bad blood from this, I'm hoping.

:phone:
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 9, 2007
Messages
5,164
As for whether or not our interaction in game is influencing your thought process I could care less. I will say I probably went over the line a few times but I did what I had to do to defend myself from the real possibility of a lynch. No bad blood from this, I'm hoping.

:phone:
I didn't take any of our interactions in the game personally at all. This has nothing to do with that.

Dastrn was dead before you got in the game. T-block's lynch was pretty much sealed by Werekill's investigation and subsequent flip. Yes, T-block tried to argue his way out of that sticky situation pretty well once he came back, and you helped to nip that in the bud, but he was still basically a dead man walking once he came back in. You were suspicious of Nabe, but plenty of people were cocking eyebrows at him on D3. You were just the most aggressive about it. And really, the thing that actually did him in was his own abductor claim. Pretty much everyone had a gut scum read on Acrostic; the only reason he survived to see D4 is because no one felt like leading a real wagon against him. And the Raz lynch essentially ended up being PoE for you.

You had lots of accurate reads, and you helped some scum lynches happen more quickly, but you really didn't "sniff out" any scum yourself other than Nabe (and again, he basically just quit the game), and the fact of the matter is that you were the catalyst for the Werekill lynch on D3, swinging it to him when it would have otherwise been likely to be Acrostic or Nabe. We ended up lynching the town Cop instead of one of two actual scum that Day, and you lead that. You also lead the Dabuz lynch. And I'm not saying this just to berate you—I certainly don't blame you for lynching Dabuz; I would have done that exact same thing given the way he was playing. And I had expressed suspicion of Werekill at the beginning of D3 too. Mislynching doesn't make you a bad player. All I'm saying is that your play here was far from perfect and the town's victory is really due to a lot of different factors. Would T-block have been lynched without Werekill's guilty? Would Nabe have been able to wriggle his head out of the noose again if he hadn't just given up? If you hadn't taken the leadership role on D3, would Werekill have been mislynched?

You were a good asset for Town. But if you really think you carried your faction in this game, then I don't think you're looking at the game as a whole very objectively.

This is still just one man's opinion, but I feel pretty strongly about it. No bad blood, like you said, but credit where credit is properly due. No salt if you do end up getting MVP, but I just don't agree.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
@RR:

I think you should have kept your daycop gambit up for much longer, at least until Werekill said something. When OS confronted you and asked you to name claim I would have flat out ignored him or just made some comment like "Id rather not talk about it right now." Dont come clean when it looks like you havn't gone balls deep with the gambit because then it looks like you havnt gained anything and gives less credibility to the move.

Though the way you claimed did help me get a town read on you, if you want to improve as abplayer learn to manipulate others to evoke that same reaction without just throwing out self-pitying AtE. You're a good enough player that someone might misinterpret that. Cut back on the actual AtE but have your sentances contain a sense of something between confidence and anger that expresses your lynch would be a bad move for town.

Think a bit before you force someone into something. You pressure of Raziek to use his deadline extension looked odd and didnt seem like something a townie would do. Oddly enough Raziek actually did it after saying he wouldn't (which was one of the scum tells I found) but be more cautious with that next time.

Immedietly counter claim someone who claims your character. Always. Even if you don't full claim always let everyone know something is amiss (this being that scum often dont cc or are reluctant to claim in general so you'll look more town).

Learn to seperate scummy from inactive. X1 already covered this but your read on Dabuz largly revolved around inactivity. If anything, that type of blatant inactivity and disregard for game events should have been a town tell as the indy didnt have a kill and thus needed to be invested in the game in the first place.

One thing I'd say about your play that should be changed is your emotions and your in game persona. I feel like you often detach yourself from your in game persona and play in a kind of cold cut one level of interpretation. I think if you could learn to let your emotions and natural inclinations seep into your play a little bit more your playstyle would come out looking more natural. I often get the feeling that your posts are fake when I read them (and sometimes read this as scummy) when its just you trying to play objectively. Put more natural elementa and feeling into your posts and I not only think that will help you correctly read things in the right context, you will appear more townie while doing it.

:phone:
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
Circus I think you're reading the wrong game.

Nabe lynch from beginning to end was all me. He only gave up when he knew he couldn't escape from my pressure. He didnt give up outright, only when I had done all the work nessecary to pin him.

You're also forgetting that I pulled town off Nabe once he had clained scum and forced them to lynch Acro first. Yeah, people suspected Acro, but no one save me was ready to lynch him in place of confirmed scum. That decision alone may have won the game for town as a Nabe lynch would have enabled another night kill which would have put the game in a situation where Raziek would have won. So not only did I pin both of them but I got them lynched in an unorthadox order that saved the game for town.

You're also completly wrong when you said I led the Dabuz lynch. I tried to argue his lynch down every step of the way while tellibg everyone Raziek was the one who shoyld die. Heck, I'm the only one who didnt vote Dabuz and held on to my Raz read.

Not to Raz was no way in gell just a PoE lynch on D8, let alone D7. Dabuz and RR werent exactly the towniest players and the fact that I got the claimed link player lynched over two vts who werent putting up the best effort really speaks to how I was able tobread Raziek as scum correctly. His lynch wouldnt have been accomplished by anyone but me in that situation.

Already explained why T-Block was still tough despite him being doomed.

Werekill was my only hiccup but that ironically helped me read Raziek later on. And your argument that Nabe or Acro would have been lynched had I not switched to Werekill is bull because I was the one who put the game in that situation in the first place. I messed up when I went against my own plan but the scum lynch originally came down to two scum players because I put them in that situation. If we had listed to some other group of players we would have lynched me and would have probably lost the game with that lynch.

:phone:
 

Dastrn

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 16, 2005
Messages
9,472
Location
Indiana
The point was that I had already survived heat from J and had no pressure on me. He restarted that case when there didn't need to be one. Anyone looking at our connection from Day 1 would have seen very little chance that J and I were scum-buddies. He put the team at risk and put me on the defensive and I couldn't recover. Day 1 lynches are almost always bad. Forcing a day 1 lynch on your scummate is just a bad play. We had to beat 12 other players and we lost 1/3 of our team because J wanted to "stay in character" instead of maintain good numbers.

it was a poor play.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

Red Fox Warrior
Joined
Jun 15, 2008
Messages
27,486
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Milwaukee, Wisconsin
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@RR:

I think you should have kept your daycop gambit up for much longer, at least until Werekill said something. When OS confronted you and asked you to name claim I would have flat out ignored him or just made some comment like "Id rather not talk about it right now." Dont come clean when it looks like you havn't gone balls deep with the gambit because then it looks like you havnt gained anything and gives less credibility to the move.

Though the way you claimed did help me get a town read on you, if you want to improve as abplayer learn to manipulate others to evoke that same reaction without just throwing out self-pitying AtE. You're a good enough player that someone might misinterpret that. Cut back on the actual AtE but have your sentances contain a sense of something between confidence and anger that expresses your lynch would be a bad move for town.

Think a bit before you force someone into something. You pressure of Raziek to use his deadline extension looked odd and didnt seem like something a townie would do. Oddly enough Raziek actually did it after saying he wouldn't (which was one of the scum tells I found) but be more cautious with that next time.

Immedietly counter claim someone who claims your character. Always. Even if you don't full claim always let everyone know something is amiss (this being that scum often dont cc or are reluctant to claim in general so you'll look more town).

Learn to seperate scummy from inactive. X1 already covered this but your read on Dabuz largly revolved around inactivity. If anything, that type of blatant inactivity and disregard for game events should have been a town tell as the indy didnt have a kill and thus needed to be invested in the game in the first place.

One thing I'd say about your play that should be changed is your emotions and your in game persona. I feel like you often detach yourself from your in game persona and play in a kind of cold cut one level of interpretation. I think if you could learn to let your emotions and natural inclinations seep into your play a little bit more your playstyle would come out looking more natural. I often get the feeling that your posts are fake when I read them (and sometimes read this as scummy) when its just you trying to play objectively. Put more natural elementa and feeling into your posts and I not only think that will help you correctly read things in the right context, you will appear more townie while doing it.

:phone:
Thanks for this, I so like he input back from this.
 

th3kuzinator

Smash Master
Joined
Mar 17, 2010
Messages
3,620
Location
Winning
No problem.

@Werekill:

There's definite improvement and I like that I was able to read you as town most of the game (though your assurance that Nabe was town threw me for a loop). You just need to learn to play the game in a more level-headed manner. Kind of the opposite of what I just told RR. You often jump the gun and your accusations seem brash (and therefore off base). Try to get less personally involved with your posts and argue your points with a collected, confident tone. If someone accuses you of being scum don't assume they're scum themselves or are bat**** crazy, defeat their points with logic and charisma.

And be careful about latnching onto things too hard. Remember to keep an open mind and address the situation through multiple PoVs while looking at intent over actual content more often than not.

:phone:
 

#HBC | Nabe

Beneath it all, he had H-cups all along
Joined
Oct 21, 2010
Messages
3,932
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Can't breathe, but the view is equal to the taste
Circus I think you're reading the wrong game.

Nabe lynch from beginning to end was all me. He only gave up when he knew he couldn't escape from my pressure. He didnt give up outright, only when I had done all the work nessecary to pin him.
Except this isn't the case. You didn't do work to pin me, you briefly cited setup and then smeared me into the ground and ignored me when I asked for responses to anything I said.

That tactic worked and brought players to my lynch, but you didn't get reason to lean on until the Day I threw in the towel, when you said "wow it sure is scummy that he wants his own lynch" in 100 posts. After my lynch, you went on to correctly finish the game, and kudos for that. But no pinning went on, and you only started to tackle other players with argumentation when I was functionally dead.
 

#HBC | Ryker

Netplay Monstrosity
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 16, 2008
Messages
6,520
Location
Mobile, AL
I disagree. I believe I was the clear cut MVP this game. You're entitled to your own opinion and I'm fine with that but I think my performance this game went above and beyond the standard of everyone else's and I really thought it showed.

As for whether or not our interaction in game is influencing your thought process I could care less. I will say I probably went over the line a few times but I did what I had to do to defend myself from the real possibility of a lynch. No bad blood from this, I'm hoping.

:phone:
You replaced in on someone else's achievements to begin with which is grounds enough to deny MVP. I don't think you stood a ghost of a chance of making it to LyLo had you played from the beginning. Maybe I'm wrong, but you didn't prove it here.

I think Raz played well and what really stopped him from winning was the poor showing of the scum team. Then he was stuck in late game with you who I have previously said shouldn't have been there.

:phone:
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
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We get it. You're mad you didn't win.

Now can you stop acting like a two year old?
I'm not even mad about losing. I'm mad that you think you were god's gift to this game when the ONLY people who think that are the newer players who don't know any better.

Get over yourself. You were Town's best player, but it wasn't an MVP performance by anyone in this game.
 

Raziek

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Like seriously THINK for a moment what happened.

Two of the members of the scumteam (Xastrn and T-Block) were effectively dead before you even replaced in.

Acrostic got ****ed because J thought it would be hilarious to claim poisoner.

At BEST you have claim to lynching Nabe, because I essentially got ****ed by PoE at the end.
 

Raziek

Charging Limit All Day
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Kuz doesn't deserve MvP. That's a simple as it gets. The game was not won by his "magnificent play", but by the failure of the scumteam to not screw up.
 
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