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Data Mah0ne's Stuff about Puff

Tekk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
1,112
Location
Lyon, France
No I'm not. =(
School + Money + Family johns.
My, I'd give anything to go to Apex.

I'm probably coming to visit the US during the 2013 summer (after I turn 18 LOL).
I'd love to meet you guys. Meeting your favorite players is like meeting your favorite actors, it's such a weird feeling.
 

boomrested

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
215
Nooooooo tekk :( You're my favorite puff main, I wanted to see some sick apex videos of you owning us Americans!

:phone:
 

Tekk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
1,112
Location
Lyon, France
Thanks man! That's really nice of you. :)

I got a lot of things that prevent me from going to the US atm, but I will absolutely come whenever I can.
Once I get reallyyyy good I'll show americans what rondoudou is up to. :D
 

idea

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
4,123
Location
Come By Chance Mews
No I'm not. =(
School + Money + Family johns.
My, I'd give anything to go to Apex.

I'm probably coming to visit the US during the 2013 summer (after I turn 18 LOL).
I'd love to meet you guys. Meeting your favorite players is like meeting your favorite actors, it's such a weird feeling.
yeah fair enough. i probably wouldn't want my teenage child spending spending hundreds of dollars on a plane ticket halfway around the world for a video game tournament either :p

i'm still working stuff out, but i wanna go, and i have options, so in the end there's a good chance i will.
 

KirbyKaze

Smash Legend
Joined
Nov 18, 2007
Messages
17,679
Location
Spiral Mountain
How to beat Kirby:

dair > grab > throw him off level > bunch of aerials

space bair

shield a lot because none of his throws combo you or kill you

easy breezy beautiful cover girl
 

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
Against ganon try to stay in his face with like falling upairs and uptilts... You dont wanna give him room to space his aerials... In this matchup try to be really efficient with your aerials, dont try to wall him out with bairs like in other matchups cuz he'll bait alot and fair

:phone:
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
Some tips against Peach? How do I know when to not challenge her and get faired or downsmashed? What do I do about turnips? How the hell do I rest her?
 

Krynxe

I can't pronounce it either
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
4,903
Location
Lakewood, WA
3DS FC
4511-0472-1729
I know uptilt rest is really good on peach, plus peach is terrible at punishing so you can feel free to throw them out. But yeah I have the same question, and don't forget out her annoying nair lol. Peach is a tough MU for me, luckily I almost never have to play them.
 

-LzR-

Smash Hero
Joined
Jan 1, 2009
Messages
7,649
Location
Finland
From personal experience, I have learned not to nair her much. Riiight?
I heard uptilt rest doesn't even work as she is a floaty, light character with a fast nair. I'll play around with it when I play against our best Peach this weekend.
 

ShroudedOne

Smash Hero
Premium
Joined
Mar 14, 2011
Messages
5,493
Played more Puff today.

Uh...Fox is really hard. I need to figure out how to not space badly and get punished with upsmash. But do Foxes punished bad moves in their airspace with upsmash that often?

Also, bair feels fairly awkward for me as an approaching aerial. So, for now, I'm going to stick with sparse bairs, and a lot of fairs, and some nairs.
 

Republican0fHeaven

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
776
Location
Lebanon, NH
From personal experience, I have learned not to nair her much. Riiight?
I heard uptilt rest doesn't even work as she is a floaty, light character with a fast nair. I'll play around with it when I play against our best Peach this weekend.
ON PRINCESS PEACHDid you read the new MU guide? I think it was written by Idea, it's pretty good.
As for resting peach, its a gamble to go for a rest after utilt once she is past 15-20%. Also may depend on what part of the utilt you hit her with.

If she dash attacks and you are on the ground, rest everytime OOS. It's almost like she's giving you a stock (It is true that she can space it, but unless you see her purposely trying to space them, rest away). I kick myself everytime I don't think to rest quickly enough when she dash attacks, so always have that in the back of your mind (Its easier to CC rest the dash attack but this opportunity is more rare due to spacing and percentage so work on the oos). There's also aerial->rest and d-throw tech read rest and if you catch on to when she grabs you can duck and then jump into a rest. If she fc an aerial into jab then downsmash (like the peach I play against always does) you can rest oos after the jab. If she likes to jump into the armada "safe zone" position to try to hit with fair, then you can predict when she's gonna jump up to that position and aim behind her (she'll float back as you approach) and rest cause she prob won't be able to time the nair right. Also falling uair to rest. Also if she nairs oos right on top of you and you are in shield you can rest oos. >.< :psycho: alot to process, right?

Despite these possibilities, I find it useful to focus on just one or two rest strategies and make sure I nail them, cause if I try to process all these opportunities at once in addition to spacing and mindgames, I get *****. So focus on that dash attack (if she does) and maybe one other strat. It's always good to go into a match focusing on a plan. If the plan isn't happening, then try to make it happen with mindgames and smart thinking!!!:)

Her fair is only really effective when she's coming back onto stage from above after being hit OR when she's in her "safe zone." Also if you are remotely close to peach on the ground and she's in her "safe zone" float position you either need to commit to fairs quickly or get away from her. If you try to turn around and bair, her fair will prob beat you. If you want to approach with bair, do it from horizontal with her by running away (to get space) then jumping to her height. *if she follows you when you're running away, watch for the falling fair and don't trade with it. *if you're approaching with bairs from her level, don't get too greedy with trying to hit her(you have a lot of jumps) If you see an opening and commit to it, she can back up in her float at the same speed and just fair you. So just nip at her and don't move horizontally forward too much.

As for her nairs, you gotta expect her to nair oos every chance she gets (it is almost completely safe for her to nair oos, unless she does it right on top of you in your shield) so you don't want to be too close unless you're behind her (that's why your own nair isn't too good in this mu, she can just beat you with hers). So if you feel a hit from your bair then you can move forward, but if you hit her shield then stay horizontally in place about a bairs length away to avoid a followup nair oos.

If she pulls turnips every so often, then its not too big a deal... find a way around them, nair them, or catch and immediately throw back. You may get hit a few times but as long as you don't give her a ton of space then it shouldn't determine the game. If she throws a turnip at you as she's approaching, DI away to avoid the followup aerial. If she's pulling them all the time by running away and pulling them then pressure her way more. This is another opportunity to get a good read and rest as she pulls one out of the ground (but most good peaches won't do this). Haha something that I've done to my friend every so often is thrown or dropped a turnip on their shield and immediately followed it for a rest if I see them come out of shield or get hit by the turnip BECAUSE this allows me to get past the her nair oos zone. This isn't a proven strategy but works for me about 40%-50% of the time that I've tried it. Grand total of like 5 times ever lol. I think if she just waits then she can downsmash or roll (which = rest) but then if she doesn't come out of shield as you hit the ground behind her, just grab.:cool:

Played more Puff today.

Uh...Fox is really hard. I need to figure out how to not space badly and get punished with upsmash. But do Foxes punished bad moves in their airspace with upsmash that often?

Also, bair feels fairly awkward for me as an approaching aerial. So, for now, I'm going to stick with sparse bairs, and a lot of fairs, and some nairs.

ON FANCY FOXESI HATE this... to the point of if they are dash dancing (neutral momentum), I prepare all of my bairs to be retreating ones in case I see them move toward me. They are sorta camping you in this situation, waiting for you to make a mistake, but if you prepare a retreating bair then you may be able to double back after the usmash and get a grab. either way it requires tight spacing and he's faster than you. Its a pain cause if they usmash a lot when you're in the air and you go back to a grounded position, they can grab you when you land. I guess you gotta look for hard predictions. Like pretend to go for a bair, then airdodge to the ground as they approach to usmash then rest oos I LOVE RESTING FOX'S USMASH OOS! I still have yet to figure out a way to beat a grabby fox. I suck at DIing out of his uthrow uair. Hbox recommends DIing the throw up, then SDIing the hit up with grey control stick followed immediately by yellow Cstick up 1ms after (sort of like when you do a charged usmash attack except instead of "A" do "Cstick up").

The fox player I play against the most always camps by dash dancing and when he sees an opening he dashes into a dash cancel jab and then either grabs or usmashes. He does it fast that no matter what I do he has the advantage cause if im airborne its usmash and if he sees shield its a grab. If I start trying to beat his grab with my own after the jab, he starts usmashing. So in this situation I just try and always DI the jab away if Im airborne. There's no easy solution short of metagame predictions I guess.
 

Republican0fHeaven

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
776
Location
Lebanon, NH
Seems like you can rest out of like half of the character's down throws. I wish there was a better rest for the marth mu =/

How are you supposed to DI to get out of his forward throw chain grab? Is it restable? (I really doubt it is, but I always wondered... marths grab and his wd back fsmash always **** me)
 

idea

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
4,123
Location
Come By Chance Mews
Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?
i said that like a week ago...people must not be talking about you much.

do you still play at all?

Played more Puff today.

Uh...Fox is really hard. I need to figure out how to not space badly and get punished with upsmash. But do Foxes punished bad moves in their airspace with upsmash that often?

Also, bair feels fairly awkward for me as an approaching aerial. So, for now, I'm going to stick with sparse bairs, and a lot of fairs, and some nairs.
not really, they shouldn't be able to run in with upsmash that easily. maybe you're fullhopping stuff too much. or just being too predictable.

also you can rest him out of his d-throw
and fthrow, and probably bthrow
 

boomrested

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jul 28, 2011
Messages
215
Hey did you hear about that kid BoomRested, who got ***** at his first tournament because he didn't know how to fight peaches or foxes? And now thanks to super awesome matchup guides by Idea, he's gonna do way better at the next one?

:phone:
 

Republican0fHeaven

Smash Ace
Joined
Aug 24, 2010
Messages
776
Location
Lebanon, NH
not really, they shouldn't be able to run in with upsmash that easily. maybe you're fullhopping stuff too much. or just being too predictable.
If you're autocancelling bairs and don't hit their shield (cause they're dash dancing), it doesn't seem too hard for them to followup the bair with a jc usmash. If you hit them in shield though, then that gives you enough time due to shield stun... at least thats how it seems to me.

If you do a late L cancelled bair and wd away then you risk them dashing in early looking for a usmash trade before the bair comes out or at the same time.

It all comes down to how predictable you are. Agreed

Awesome stuff about Peach. I'll try to own everyone this weekend.
Definitely make sure you are in the mood to rest alot and don't fret about missing rests.
 

FoxLisk

Smash Lord
Joined
Jun 18, 2007
Messages
1,851
Uh...Fox is really hard. I need to figure out how to not space badly and get punished with upsmash. But do Foxes punished bad moves in their airspace with upsmash that often?
If you're spaced badly enough, yes. and if they're not afraid of what you might do if they miss, the bar for 'badly enough' can go pretty high. against a puff that I don't think can **** me off of one punish I'll spam the **** out of JC usmash.
 

Sliq

Smash Master
Joined
Jan 13, 2006
Messages
4,871
i said that like a week ago...people must not be talking about you much.

do you still play at all?
I don't check smashboards very often anymore.

And no, I haven't played in a very long time.
 

Tekk

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 10, 2009
Messages
1,112
Location
Lyon, France
Would anyone be interested in me writing a samus matchup write-up ? I'm finding more and more sneaky tricks vs her.
 

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
So...I'm really bad. Thanks. :)
There are a lot of ways that fox can be going for upsmash... i can't really give good advice unless i see videos or something... the best i can do is to tell you to stay horizontal to fox and even while you are in the air make sure you aren't coming down without weaving to stay horizontal... along use more jumps sometimes when coming down so that it is not as obvious when you are going to land
 

Mahone

Smash Champion
Joined
Apr 19, 2010
Messages
2,940
Location
Blacksburg, VA
Also.. I would enjoy a samus guide as well

And i wanna rewrite the fox and falco matchup so everything is up to date, but i know too much about fox so its hard to write cuz i dont know how to condense the information properly and i know too little about falco :(

What should i do??

Yo hungrybox namesearch this and write a falco matchup please :)

:phone:
 

idea

Smash Master
Joined
Nov 24, 2007
Messages
4,123
Location
Come By Chance Mews
i know some stuff about falco but i'm only so-so at that matchup...i could write some stuff up eventually. but not right now, i'm off to a tournament later today :cool:
 

P-99

Smash Cadet
Joined
Nov 24, 2009
Messages
33
I hope this belongs here...
In another thread about speeding up I posted this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGiD7HN2BwY

Now the only thing i can see making puff faster is the ledgecancel at 0:14...
so my question is: Will Jigglypuff be able to compete in a metagame that is becoming so much faster and where people make less mistakes?
 

Krynxe

I can't pronounce it either
Joined
Aug 1, 2011
Messages
4,903
Location
Lakewood, WA
3DS FC
4511-0472-1729
Yeah, I appreciate the response. (I had originally asked what could help a puff player play faster) I'm already aware of the tech skill puff can use, such as ledge canceling and shuffling, which do speed her up. My problem lies when I'm fighting fast characters - fox, falco, c.falcon - and even though I'm spacing they an seem to just rush through and get to me in no time. The Prime, a wa samus player who also plays falcon, was explaining to me the windows I leave every time I attack even when I'm spacing. I'm wondering how to close these windows of opportunity from my enemy and keep up with fast characters at all times. Any thoughts?
 
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