Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Im in trial until thursday minimum, so Im still V/LA till then

Sorry guys, I know this is mylo and I feel terrible but trial work takes priority and aim going to have a lot of late nights until this thing is over. Would not at all be offended by a policy lynch of my slot. If things go smoothly tues/wed theres a possibility the hard work is done by wed night and I can actually dig into this game then and have something meaningful up by thursday. Just ****ty timing on my end re: the trial start date, we were expecting the case to be set later but just didnt work out that way

 

[Swiss]

Christ, so FF can't post until next day phase.

 

[Rhand]

Ok I will reread Nerbins and Swiss with an open mind. I have encountered ego based players before (and in some ways I am one), but never saw a play style like Swiss’.

Fwiw, in my current worldview FF should be the lynch toDay.

 

[Rhand]

Oh and as I type that FF posts that he can’t participate :/

 

[Swiss]

Shur do you think Gorf is a realistic lynch toDay? Why?

It really sucks that FF if afk the whole day. I don't want to lynch an afk. Plus Nerbins was universally scumread by dead townies.

Also we can't NoLynch, last power role is **** whatever it is.

 

[Rhand]

Swiss what made you drop your scum read on me?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Shur do you think Gorf is a realistic lynch toDay? Why?

It really sucks that FF if afk the whole day. I don't want to lynch an afk. Plus Nerbins was universally scumread by dead townies.

Also we can't NoLynch, last power role is **** whatever it is.

1) ff has the 2nd half of the Day. Rough but not impossible

2) who’s the 3rd option if not ff or nerbins

 

[Swiss]

Swiss what made you drop your scum read on me?

Errrr something yesterday? I don’t recall.

Rule of thumb the longer the game has gone on the less I’ve suspected you. I thought you were Seer before Osie claimed.

If it matters I’ll go back - I’ll have mentioned it

 

[Rhand]

Errrr something yesterday? I don’t recall.

Rule of thumb the longer the game has gone on the less I’ve suspected you. I thought you were Seer before Osie claimed.

If it matters I’ll go back - I’ll have mentioned it

It matters yes. I find looking at how people handle me one of the best ways of reading them.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Spiritual vote on Nerbins atm, gonna take a good case to change my mind

 

[gellnick]

Reading today so far, my thoughts:
Shurian seems like they're trying to powerwolf hard. I've seen similar acts from Town, but this seems really sudden, so I'm not sure I like it at all.
I'm putting Swiss at scumlean still - I can very much see a Shurian-Swiss scum team, but I find a Gorf-Shurian scumteam much more likely atm.
Rhand is still a townread for me, there's no way those reads are coming from scum.
I also don't really like gorf much right now - It's partially a gut feeling, partially some comments he made that I don't feel are Town.

Current readlist:
Town:
Rhand
Me
Townlean:
Nerbins
Neutral:
FrozenFlame
Utopian
Scumlean:
Gorf
Swiss
Scumread:
Shurian

In other news, I think we need to focus on getting rid of a Mafia, but any scum will do. If we get rid of a Mafia, that will split scum and make it much harder for scum to collaborate.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Rhand what are your thoughts on gellnicks readslist. Not the content itself necessarily, but the quality of the content in it at this stage in the game.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

ebwop

your thoughts on gellnick’s reads*, not readslist

 

[Shurian]

I'm here and I'll need to read again

I'm currently unsure of which direction I need to go but I really think I was in the right direction.

Imma give myself 48 hours to churn out everything that happened in day 1 and re-eval. Maybe I'm stuck on the tunnel and Nerbins is actually the mafia/traitor? It's just Nerbins looks like such a good juicy LHF, and FrozenFlame isn't exactly helping either (being a second golden fruit).

And yes, Mafia is the way to go here (Unless you want to vote the traitor, in which we'll have to go to Final 3).

I don't blame gellnick for thinking that way about me (he has his own sets of experience and my play probably triggered some alarm bells) but I've been stuck on that conclusion ever since I decided that Mao was probably the WW and did the CFTWR thing. (Which is why I'm so tunneled, I have been terribly wrong before though, I could be wrong.)

If only we weren't at MyLo... >_>

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

This pl is cracked. With like ~half scum.

Shurian - Yeah for the most part I was pretty good w/ Shurian. Was pretty happy with town reading them earlier and I still like them for the most part? I think they definitely have the capability of power wolfing as Gellnick has suggested, but the tone and mannerisms are just too town and Shurian is absolutely oozing confidence, when I'd expect them to probably dial it back a bit more if they were legit scum here. For the most part I like what they're putting down, but am not a huge fan of the direction. Probably looking at a Town Lean?

I got bored of this format and tbh my mind is telling me that we're looking at a Rhand/Nerbins mafia with gellnick as a traitor, with FF filling the gaps of whichever one of my reads is inevitably wrong.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Current readlist:
Town:
Rhand
Me
Townlean:
Nerbins

You messed up

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Shurian definitely has the town passion in my eyes that Rhand has been lacking, even though they're both coming from the same camp so much so that I don't think they could ever be mafia mates. I think there's a possibility of one being mafia and another being traitor but based on my last claim I'm pretty sure Shurian is just tried and true town. Swiss and Gorf are town for being on Nerbins who is mafia.

 

[Shurian]

I'm putting Swiss at scumlean still - I can very much see a Shurian-Swiss scum team, but I find a Gorf-Shurian scumteam much more likely atm.

May I know how this association came about; however? I want more details and explanation: I can't view myself in an objective light you see.

Also how did everyone vote Mao back then in D2?
Was it solely because of the CFTWR posts?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

13 players, 5 bad guys.

3DSNinja
ExLight
gellnick
Scarlet Rage
Wam
Swiss - werewolf
Wiisp
Rhand - scum
FrozenFlame
Chaco
Whysper
Eido - not vanilla town
Gorf
Detective Mao - town

I legit feel this readslist has no bearing, I don't see why traitor Swiss makes this list immediately knowing full well he name dropped claim dropped 2 wws, knowing that if they flip he created that early association to them and didn't even give himself a chance to go with mafia. I'd imagine that the actually smart traitor gameplay would be to wait on reaching out to evil roles, because having the losing team act like they don't know you is a great way to appear townie, at which point you can make yourself known to the mafia. Here's what I mean; Swiss would have had no way of knowing which group would come out on top on the very first page. If we think its a preference thing, he's never played with Eido or Mao, and this would've been Eido's second game so tbh and no offense I don't think Swiss would have desperation grabbed at Eido to signify his traitorhood to him, I'm not entirely sure about Mao's experience but the point still stands that it doesn't make any sense for Swiss to pre-emptively do this to the wolves and leaving the mafia hanging. But moving on, there is a very real chance that both of the mafia die in early to midgame, or both of the werewolves die in early to midgame. Now, why would the traitor risk the association that early? I'd think that the traitor would much rather have the losing team curse them out in their dying breaths, because that would boost the appearance of the traitor. If the werewolves were treating him buddy buddy/mutual townreading each other to the grave, and both of their identities are outed, that's pretty irresponsible for Swiss because he didn't even give himself a shot at reaching out to the other group, as the only thing he had to gain from that beginning list was making himself known to the werewolves. Is that... even worth it? The much more optimal traitor play would be to wait until much later until you know exactly who you want to win with before trying to make yourself known to the mafia.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Gellnick's readslist is super awkward btw. Idk how Rhand can be at the highest level while Shurian at the very bottom when they're both advocating for the same topic from the looks of things. Shurian as the hardest scumread in general is pretty out there, which as I'm holding the current belief that Gellnick is a likely traitor, that's a good bit of where that theory comes from, but once again Nerbins is my hardest scumlean and Rhand is my weakest one. Would like to vote out Nerbins first though.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I can very much see a Shurian-Swiss scum team, but I find a Gorf-Shurian scumteam much more likely atm.

Also why tf would mafia!Shurian be trying to push the hell out of Gorf AND Swiss in MyLo? What about that says "likely scumteam"?

 

[Shurian]

The thing about that readlist

Well, I thought that it was immediate signalling to WW, and that the plan was to yeet 4 town nightkills because scum knew each other.

Swiss did the same exact thing on Gorf/FF.
It's just a joke, but it's just like Nerbins and FF, just golden, delicious hanging fruit, you know?

Which, would be extremely helpful, especially since Traitor would automatically win if no scum die on D2 and N2.

Maybe I was wrong though.
I do know that if town people didnt vote out Nerbins rn they'd feel like **** if he makes it to F3.

Cmon why is this 14 players
I can't have a peace of mind in every action in this game
Trash setup
0/10
Will make ChopChop get roasted by my homesite on balancing after this game

 

[gellnick]

I don't blame gellnick for thinking that way about me (he has his own sets of experience and my play probably triggered some alarm bells) but I've been stuck on that conclusion ever since I decided that Mao was probably the WW and did the CFTWR thing. (Which is why I'm so tunneled, I have been terribly wrong before though, I could be wrong.)

I've been in several games where one player suddenly decided to bus the rest of their team - resulted in an easy scum win. Another game one of the scum was the one guy who had never been scum in 4 or 5 games straight while always being a very strong town, he powerwolfed his way to victory. Similar things kept happening on my homesite for a while.

You messed up

No. I don't believe I did. Lynch me, Rhand, or Nerbins, but then you'll just lose the game.

Gellnick's readslist is super awkward btw. Idk how Rhand can be at the highest level while Shurian at the very bottom when they're both advocating for the same topic from the looks of things. Shurian as the hardest scumread in general is pretty out there, which as I'm holding the current belief that Gellnick is a likely traitor, that's a good bit of where that theory comes from, but once again Nerbins is my hardest scumlean and Rhand is my weakest one. Would like to vote out Nerbins first though.

As always, I appreciate the vote of confidence. Shurian is currently the greatest scumread for me because they triggered some major alarm bells that no other player, except somewhat Gorf, did - Their sudden confidence and pushes (imo) remind me of a few games I've played where scum majorly powerwolf and win easy. Rhand, on the other hand, is doing exactly what I would expect a Town to do - I've seen only ONE player that can pull off what Rhand is doing as scum, and even then they mess up a bunch. Rhand has not (as far as I can tell) made a scumslip while pulling off the Town.

Also why tf would mafia!Shurian be trying to push the hell out of Gorf AND Swiss in MyLo? What about that says "likely scumteam"?

I've had some really wierd mafia experiences. This is not the worst of them by far.

I'll look some more tomorrow, but hopefully this makes some more sense.
And yes, a lot of this is based on past experiences.
And yes, I realize that may not be applicable, but I figure it's our best chance if what I suspect is true.

 

[Swiss]

Rhand

Your posts after my last "rhand lean" (i.e. not town call but not a lynch sus)

Swiss wanting the traitor dead so hard probably means he’s not the traitor (all eyes would turn back to him if our traitor doesn’t flip traitor), unless he values Mao’s life above his own.
It also makes him not the second WW for sure (traitor lynching would be very bad for his wincon).
It most likely means he’s not mafia, and if he is, it’s with exactly Mao (saving the buddy > saving the traitor.

#1866 You made a logical leap that you don't mention if you're scum. Effectively clearing me even if you back out on this later.

#1892 - Nerbins push, I like that you agree

Disliked the Mao push but I was wrong so skip that

Frankly I think I started townreading you more because you agreed with me. Osie, Wiisp and Gorf both ended up town reading you as well as me, as well as each other, don't think the towncore is corrupted. You can remove me from it, but that leaves osie wiisp gorf you that I'll believe are town

And yeh Swiss is traitor. Having both ww’s as townreads in his lists and calling himself werewolf. It’s pretty obvious.
We don’t need the traitor dead though, hunting mafia is foremost important.
Swiss should be our “we don’t know who to yeet” backup yeet.

It's **** like this that almost made me swap back onto you as scum. But scum don't flip their reads for no reason. When I first read it, because it was so rapid, I though christ is this shur rhand scum. But then it fizzles so fast under your own steam it just doesn't add up. I don't think scum widly flops their reads like that. I think it's town trying to make sense of a ****ed game.

I really feel like this game I seem to just townread people who townread me, current exception aside. But with the volume of evil to town, maybe that's actually a good thing.

Nerbins toDay, but wait till eod for FF.
This FF push for toMorrow I really don't know on.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The thing about that readlist

Well, I thought that it was immediate signalling to WW, and that the plan was to yeet 4 town nightkills because scum knew each other.

Swiss did the same exact thing on Gorf/FF.
It's just a joke, but it's just like Nerbins and FF, just golden, delicious hanging fruit, you know?

Which, would be extremely helpful, especially since Traitor would automatically win if no scum die on D2 and N2.

Maybe I was wrong though.
I do know that if town people didnt vote out Nerbins rn they'd feel like **** if he makes it to F3.

Cmon why is this 14 players
I can't have a peace of mind in every action in this game
Trash setup
0/10
Will make ChopChop get roasted by my homesite on balancing after this game

i know there’s wifom in what I’m about to say but to me, i can’t help but think that no traitor in their right mind tries making the type of blatant reaching out that you’re blaming Swiss of making. It’s like you’re stripping away any sort of threshold for competency and blaming it on THE lowest hanging fruit: arbitrary labeling of an early readslist. I truly don’t believe that the traitor signals anything to any mafia team in that sort of crumbing way, and that if they do, we’re NOT gonna find it.

 

[Nerbins]

Right figure I should get this out now, never finished my ISOs so putting up what I think in order of who I like most to least but it's by no means comprehensive

Shur: Actively helping, and might just be because I played with them before but I like their vibes and I trust them more than anyone else
Gorf: I also liked Gorf's vibes, but not as much as I liked Shurs'. That and Shur makes a reasonable case for him possibly being evil.

Rhand: Bit of a townlean, I like their interactions somewhat barring Gell's
Frozen: Also a townlean but they haven't posted as much as Rhand and cases for them being evil are more compelling.

Gell: Pretty null on overall. However, while I don't necessarily agree with their readlist, I like how they didn't go for the easiest golden, succulent, opulent fruit (me/FF) when it would've been easy.
Poyzin: Haven't ISO'd at all and I can't remember much of what they said beyond wanting me dead. My main (albeit probably incorrect) guess for mafia would've been Gell and Poyzin given this list, but having ISO'd the majority of what Gell said, having Rhand or FF as Gell's partner would make more sense than having Poyzin as his partner. Never determined who would make the most sense as Poyzin's partner. In short I have absolutely no concrete idea on what the most likely maf team is

Swiss: Don't trust, but he seems like he's traitor as opposed to full-fledged bad. However, for a legend scum player he seems uncomfortably obvious so that makes me nervous

 

[Chop Chop]

Tsumugi Shirogane has replaced Nerbins

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Hi, welcome me to the game; Please and Thank you.

The first order of business I thank my predecessor for posting that before swapping out that way I was left in the dark on his thoughts.

2nd order of business I won't be the most active until Saturday

3rd order of Business I have yet to find the time to back read.

That being said, I expect none of you to go easy on me, likewise, I shall not go easy on any of you.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Geez what is with people and replacing out

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

gellnick Nerbins UtopianPoyzin
We should follow the lynch
FrozenFlame > Gorf > Swiss (Traitor)

Page 54 has everything you need to convince you that these are the mafia and traitor.

If there are any queries, we have to take action fast.

I would always go with FF first over Gorf, I trust the town core that wisp and osie made with gorf for now. Reading up on page 54 is very convincing on the idea of Swiss being a traitor and he did a good job softing shots to his mafia buddies.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Swiss is not the traitor are you guys on crack? Why the **** does traitor!swiss haaaaaard defend mao yesterday instead of just jumping ship and putting his bets on mafia? There’s no reason for him to stick his neck out like that

also you guys are soft if you think I’m scum at this point. I should be towns only townread you guys are nuts

More than likely a guise to get the mafia team to get rid of Mao?

What makes you show town, as someone who replaced into the game, spell it out for me.

 

[Swiss]

4 replaces? Check!

Crazy set up? Check!

Both lynch targets afk until end of day? Check!

Tsumungi has 2 posts. 1 saying he believes towncore gorf, the next asking why towncore gorf is town

 

[Swiss]

I would always go with FF first over Gorf, I trust the town core that wisp and osie made with gorf for now. Reading up on page 54 is very convincing on the idea of Swiss being a traitor and he did a good job softing shots to his mafia buddies.

Also if I was traitor surely I did a terrible job. Mafia shot a werewolf night 1.

 

[Rhand]

Rhand what are your thoughts on gellnicks readslist. Not the content itself necessarily, but the quality of the content in it at this stage in the game.

It bothers me that he puts my name above his own. The content of the readslist feels forced. And overall he lacks presence (but he’s not alone at that). And Shurian as strongest read is nuts. That post alone makes him a great candidate to be mafia with FF.

At this point I think lynching FF now is our best bet. The gamestate seems to point at him completely: no one is reading him as town, he gets included in most teams by mostly everyone, but there’s no strong push to lynch him first.
A buddy can easily add him to scumteams now (or have no read on him like Gellnink) while lynching a town “first”, winning the game that way. If he would be town, I would expect a stronger push to lynch him since everyone seems to be willing to go there.

Also, in his “I can’t post“ post, he says he’s ok with a policy lynch. He doesn’t strike me as the gamethrowing type and since it’s mylo, that would be game throwing as town.

I think he is where we have to lynch now and if he flips mafia, we get spew to work with toMorrow.

I still will reread a bunch of players, I didn’t manage today. But that’s where I think we should go toDay.

 

[Rhand]

Rhand

Your posts after my last "rhand lean" (i.e. not town call but not a lynch sus)



#1866 You made a logical leap that you don't mention if you're scum. Effectively clearing me even if you back out on this later.

#1892 - Nerbins push, I like that you agree

Disliked the Mao push but I was wrong so skip that

Frankly I think I started townreading you more because you agreed with me. Osie, Wiisp and Gorf both ended up town reading you as well as me, as well as each other, don't think the towncore is corrupted. You can remove me from it, but that leaves osie wiisp gorf you that I'll believe are town



It's **** like this that almost made me swap back onto you as scum. But scum don't flip their reads for no reason. When I first read it, because it was so rapid, I though christ is this shur rhand scum. But then it fizzles so fast under your own steam it just doesn't add up. I don't think scum widly flops their reads like that. I think it's town trying to make sense of a ****ed game.

I really feel like this game I seem to just townread people who townread me, current exception aside. But with the volume of evil to town, maybe that's actually a good thing.

Nerbins toDay, but wait till eod for FF.
This FF push for toMorrow I really don't know on.

Can you do me a favor and (if you have time for that) reread FF? I want to know why you are hesitant on him.

 

[Rhand]

With 40 posts per page, we managed to stay on one page for more than 24 hours. That’s not good. We need to keep communicating.

 

[Rhand]

Right figure I should get this out now, never finished my ISOs so putting up what I think in order of who I like most to least but it's by no means comprehensive

Shur: Actively helping, and might just be because I played with them before but I like their vibes and I trust them more than anyone else
Gorf: I also liked Gorf's vibes, but not as much as I liked Shurs'. That and Shur makes a reasonable case for him possibly being evil.

Rhand: Bit of a townlean, I like their interactions somewhat barring Gell's
Frozen: Also a townlean but they haven't posted as much as Rhand and cases for them being evil are more compelling.

Gell: Pretty null on overall. However, while I don't necessarily agree with their readlist, I like how they didn't go for the easiest golden, succulent, opulent fruit (me/FF) when it would've been easy.
Poyzin: Haven't ISO'd at all and I can't remember much of what they said beyond wanting me dead. My main (albeit probably incorrect) guess for mafia would've been Gell and Poyzin given this list, but having ISO'd the majority of what Gell said, having Rhand or FF as Gell's partner would make more sense than having Poyzin as his partner. Never determined who would make the most sense as Poyzin's partner. In short I have absolutely no concrete idea on what the most likely maf team is

Swiss: Don't trust, but he seems like he's traitor as opposed to full-fledged bad. However, for a legend scum player he seems uncomfortably obvious so that makes me nervous

Darnit why did you replace out... I have issues with this post and now you can’t answer them.
The addition of FF in the fruit department bugs me like no tomorrow.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I wanted to hear your response to gellnicks post because I remember having similar vibes from reading this post of his that I got when he would post sporadically D1, but you were mindmelding with him. I’m glad you have issues with it, some of the reads and justifications for them come off as shockingly disconnected from what’s going on in the thread. Right now, my head is at FF or nerbins toDay, gellnick or poyzin are #3. Won’t have much to say until about 18 hours from now, but at that time I’ll be isoing FF and nerbins to commit to a side

 

[Rhand]

I wanted to hear your response to gellnicks post because I remember having similar vibes from reading this post of his that I got when he would post sporadically D1, but you were mindmelding with him. I’m glad you have issues with it, some of the reads and justifications for them come off as shockingly disconnected from what’s going on in the thread. Right now, my head is at FF or nerbins toDay, gellnick or poyzin are #3. Won’t have much to say until about 18 hours from now, but at that time I’ll be isoing FF and nerbins to commit to a side

I don’t think that any reread will rid me of the idea that Swiss possibly banked on Eido and Mao for the win as traitor.
Obviously Nerbins is a prime possibility for traitor too.
I think the smartest move is to abandon the traitor path and hunt for the mafia instead and lynch there.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

4 replaces? Check!

Crazy set up? Check!

Both lynch targets afk until end of day? Check!

Tsumungi has 2 posts. 1 saying he believes towncore gorf, the next asking why towncore gorf is town

If he can call himself town and not even explain why it's just means he's scum. If any player has the audacity to say their obvious town but can't atleast back it up then something is fishy about their claim.