Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Shurian]

I should have your attention now...
I'm just trying to find one post. And I'm done with my analysis.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I need to sleep, but ill get back to you later poyzib. When is eod?

Hell if I know, I don't pay attention to these tings

Chop Chop when is eod?

 

[Shurian]

Before I continue:
gellnick
Have you read the thread? Please do, and compare accordingly.

 

[Chop Chop]

Hell if I know, I don't pay attention to these tings

Chop Chop when is eod?

Friday.

 

[Shurian]

Apparently it was from FrozenFlame (About Projection)... I imagined the meta thing up >_>

My readlist went from opposite of ExLight's to being EXACTLY LIKE HIS

I've checked out the D2 Swiss's Mao Defense.
It doesn't make sense.
Why would he do so? The only answer is to create the exact defense being shown today. It's weak, flimsy and absolutely trash.
Let me use Light's words.
"Haha look I'm tunneled town, mao no scum, haha"

Gellnick has stated his reasons for suspecting me. Utopian has been looking at the thread for the interactions and is still looking for a conclusion.
So why is Gorf actually so defensive? Actually, scratch that. Why did he call me town?

The day before, he was very much occupied into hunting WW. He voted directly after me. What does this mean? Gorf has never considered the probability of me being mafia pushing WW.

What do wolves have? TMI. They have TMI on who's town and who's not. I look like someone who can be swayed easily: So they'd go for a chance for a mislynch after they clear me. THEY TMI ME AS TOWN AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

There is a lack of thread direction right now: Which means wolves have no idea where they want to go. Let me steer it in a direction I think is correct.

I want UtopianPoyzin and gellnick to read Page 54 and reread the first few pages. It's right there, I believe you'd see what I see.

 

[Shurian]

It's not like Swiss and Gorf are going to suddenly claim Village Power Role xD

(My vote is on Swiss the definite Traitor all this time. In the worst comes to worst we'll have him flip and we'll have people go to F3. And F3 now doesn't look so bad.)

 

[Swiss]

OK so ff.
1689 (big post)
He was one of the few people to push Wiisp with me, he was admittedly background behind me doing this - but with his activity that's null.

Spoiler: Tintin metaphor

Imagine Thomson + Thompson smut and you have myself and Wisp this game.

In terms of independently scummy and decently likely, I get Whysper or Mao.

wooow Osie actually crumbed thomson and thompson but i never clicked on the spoiler. It's why I asked with out without a p lol.



" #1295 Shurian reading SvS on SwissvRhand is surprising. More on this please Shur "

forgot about this. SvS is a big call, what happened to it?

#1390 I have ff as town

#1317 UP you like ff here also

UP in your #1215 Gorf is hard town
in your #1319 he is hard scum
??? what happened

key posts

FF's 1039 seems townie to me

Concern that all through this game he discusses mechanics and 'strategy' a lot rather than actually doing that much.

#179 - which his is first post other than voting rhand - if you boil it down has very little content

#181 more content in 50 words than his 1000 word 179. Who puts out this much so curtly as scum?

#484 his response to me not liking some of his posts, forgot about this.

#708 could be read as forced

#783 why does evil FF highlight the mechanic for a traitor win like this? I hadn't realised, exlight apparently didnt, im sure others didnt.
but again he talks pure mechanics

half his posts were rage vs exlight


My FF read has town and scum elements in it. I don't see him as the obvious choice to lynch.

i've re-read about 30 pages couldnt find the ff case lol was it early day 1?

 

[Swiss]

Shurian, Gellick, Whysper slot

Reads on the other two please?

 

[Swiss]

Swiss
Gorf
FrozenFlame
Rhand
UP/Chaco
Whysper/Nerbins/Tsumugi
Gellnick
ExlIght/Shurian

Playerlist. We are 5v3.

If FF/Exlight is traitor, the other surely is town. Their head to head wouldn't have happened if one of them knew they needed to defuse. But I still think Nerbins is traitor from his play and Wiisp's cop getting no result.

 

[Shurian]

Remember
Scum only needs one mislynch

 

[Shurian]

Shurian reading SvS on SwissvRhand is surprising. More on this please Shur

This is the second time you've asked me:

It was first-level world building. Back then, when I posted, I thought it was good: It's not.

I've long reversed that thinking. The moment I suspected Mao, and the more I interacted with Rhand, I changed that to definite V/S.

 

[Shurian]

UtopianPoyzin
If you look at Chaco's interactions, who are the ones that really look bad out of his conversations?

I want everyone to LOOK AT MEEE
First time being the biggest voice
Feels refreshing

 

[Swiss]

Shurian, Gellick, Whysper slot

Reads on the other two please?

Shurian

 

[Shurian]

Gellnick has stated his reasons for suspecting me. Utopian has been looking at the thread for the interactions and is still looking for a conclusion.

Using this to answer Swiss*

Gellnick is likely town due to classic town paranoia of a deepwolf. Like, would a wolf be able to post that I'm somehow S/S with Gorf? No. That's a wild claim to make, as per Utopian's posts on that. Wolves are far more self-conscious and would hesitate to put something like this out there.

Utopian has the same idea. He voted gellnick because of the above, but it shows a one-dimension way of thinking. He's town based off his tone and his lack of TMI. He's still trying to find something; and I hope he does. Declaring him likely town.

Both are town.
And in that list you have there, we have 1 town PR.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Swiss
Gorf
FrozenFlame
Rhand
UP/Chaco
Whysper/Nerbins/Tsumugi
Gellnick
ExlIght/Shurian

is this your readslist?

 

[Shurian]

I also dont think Gellnick has been reading thread so they wouldnt know that Wiisp and Osie got cupidized

 

[Swiss]

^ Gorf no.

But yes, mostly.

If I had to endgame right here I'd go

Town: Swiss, Gorf, UP, Rhand, FF

Scum/evil: Nerbins, Gellnick, Shurian

With Shurian townreading Gellnick (?) I see camps forming pretty fast.

the FF read is one I could flip on but the whysper slot needs to go.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Using this to answer Swiss*

Gellnick is likely town due to classic town paranoia of a deepwolf. Like, would a wolf be able to post that I'm somehow S/S with Gorf? No. That's a wild claim to make, as per Utopian's posts on that. Wolves are far more self-conscious and would hesitate to put something like this out there.

Utopian has the same idea. He voted gellnick because of the above, but it shows a one-dimension way of thinking. He's town based off his tone and his lack of TMI. He's still trying to find something; and I hope he does. Declaring him likely town.

Both are town.
And in that list you have there, we have 1 town PR.

i think youve conf biased yourself into a corner with your reads here. gellnick having come to that conclusion is a fairly easy one to stick to: he has you bussing me, but we have to lynch me first to really confirm that. you lynch me, im town, the game is over. you lynch me, im scum, he can stick on you cuz nobody ****ing goads him for his read anyway, and if youre town, town just loses. its an EASY scum position. im telling you this informatively, not to necessarily persuade you. your approach reads to me like a townie who has convinced themselves that the scenario theyve created in the thread is correct. read these players with context from the start and youll see that gellnick has taken really strange positions all game and has super coasted with them. in fact, the best activity hes had was yesterDay in hunting the wolf, and even then it was just... fine. i think you need to reread the thread with an open mind to get a better idea of what alignments people might be, and consider that you might be wrong on traitor!swiss. even if youre not, you might be missing things because your whole game hinges on that read that hasnt even been confirmed yet.

 

[Swiss]

2 hours till we’re all online

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Tsumugi Shirogane should really read the thread with the time they have to get on instead of throwing posts out that isolate toDay’s activity but i mean hey i think theyre scum so

 

[Shurian]

Oh Tsumugi

LOL
I'm seeing Tsumugi as someone who can read: If they can see what rhand and I see, but Nerbins couldn't, they're town lmao

 

[Shurian]

At this point I'm throwing out townreads for people who can at least see even consider the world of a Traitor!Swiss

 

[Swiss]

So Shurian you are town reading Whysper slot and Gellnick.

Tsumugi Shirogane

gellnick

reads on the other two please

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

**** poyzin‘s last couple of pages read like town solving

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

At this point I'm throwing out townreads for people who can at least see even consider the world of a Traitor!Swiss

you should be embarrassed by this

 

[Swiss]

Is Shurians content so bad that it can only come from town though.

Scum need a big lynch here and need to group up but this is such obvious buddying, weird reading and signalling to Gellnick and Whysper...

 

[Shurian]

I'm seeing Tsumugi as someone who can read: If they can see what rhand and I see, but Nerbins couldn't, they're town lmao

Elaborating on this.

Nerbins refused to take a hard stance; as if he was afraid to push the thread in a certain direction. He also stated: FF was town: which is nonsensical considering the only thing he probably saw was that post that said he had lots of stuff to do. The replacement definitely had a change in reads: FF not town:

Whom the slot dissonance could show, they're most likely defo town. Scum would want to push their own narrative.

you should be embarrassed by this

I shouldn't, I can be embarassed after the game ends and I'm proven wrong. Please focus on my content and my plays. I'd learn from this anyway after the game ends on D6 with a villa win, and if I have to dial it back, I will.

Scum need a big lynch here and need to group up but this is such obvious buddying, weird reading and signalling to Gellnick and Whysper...

I'm curious: Why would I need to buddy with Gell and Tsumu?
Call me out directly please :3

 

[Shurian]

Traitor me wouldn't have voted first onto Mao anyway.

Best course of action would always to hard defend Mao.
Sound familiar?

Nerbins refused to take a hard stance; as if he was afraid to push the thread in a certain direction. He also stated: FF was town: which is nonsensical considering the only thing he probably saw was that post that said he had lots of stuff to do. The replacement definitely had a change in reads: FF not town:

Whom the slot dissonance could show, they're most likely defo town. Scum would want to push their own narrative.

And to add on: Tsumu not continuing what Nerbins was on would show that he's town.

Of all the things, are you sure you want to push gellnick as one of the scum, I'm pretty sure they're one of the few who thinks I'm apparently scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

shurians content isnt so bad that it can only come from town but i have a feeling it is. i gotta look back at why i started townreading shurian specifically if i want more clarity, but thinking back on exlights stance on the wiisp claim and his vt claim, i really dont think that comes from mafia. can it come from traitor? maaaybe but idk. i think there are stronger lynch candidates

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Traitor me wouldn't have voted first onto Mao anyway.

Best course of action would always to hard defend Mao.
Sound familiar?

like **** like this, CAN it come from scum? yea its so wifom fueled and closed off from interpretation. but i think my read on shurian just con biasing himself into a tunnel is way more likely.

you should also be embarrassed by this shurian. your content and your plays tell me that you are hopelessly tunneled, even if you are right. a good townie should never feel as 100% confident as you are on this traitor!swiss read with the level of reason youre presenting. gellnick and tsumugi wont tell you that youre wrong, but the way theyre siding with you should be making you take some sort of pause.

im telling you this for no other reason than knowing im town. youre getting ****ing played by scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

whysper iso

Spoiler

with players like whysper, i feel it pertinent to read more thoroughly into everything theyve posted because of the lack of content. what did they choose to focus on/present to the thread while she was here, and what did she avoid speaking about?

Hello! Don't tell me this is going to be 5 days of RVS. Haha.

Hi Mao! I heard who you might be, but I won't say more. Good to have you in the game.

So what's everyone's experience with forum mafia? I noticed in the signup thread that there was some discussion of mafia and mechanics and such, so just wondering. I've played less than a year, mostly on my homesite Forum of Lies.

these posts in whyspers entrance tell me the following:

<1 year experience, at the start of the thread, is the most comfortable part of the game either alignment. but as scum they prob wanna avoid doing something to put them on the backfoot.

mentions rvs but doesnt vote. why? that achieves being present, but not doing anything that might lead to something else. for a more experienced player i take that as null, but for a newer player thats sus off the jump

Sorry for flaking out on this game. I had a couple minor IRL emergencies the last couple days, so was handling those. Getting back into regular things now.

Anyway, I'm reviewing the thread. Though I noticed on this page that Osie is in the game, which is pretty cool! I guess there must have been a replacement? I'll check for that.

first post in a string on pg 14. i take the absence up to this point as fairly nai, but i think its worth saying that better players/town make efforts to check in/provide vla in advance (ex. scarlet). players like gellnick and ff’s activity read as nai because of this. but i think whyspers absent nature moving forward lead more convincingly toward her being frozen scum.

Hmm. That sounds a little more sinister than I'd attribute to it. Haha. But yes, she goes by another name on my homesite. And she may be using an alias here to avoid too much attention from friends there. Not sure. But I'm not reading much into it for this particular game.

i think its strange for town!whysper to feel compelled to answer this post at this time, when having said she didnt want rvs to last all game. its all too casual, as well as the rest of her tone is, for the situation she found herself in on entering the thread. theres a cognitive dissonance.

Something about this interaction pings me as unsettling. I've already been getting a scum vibe about Swiss, and this just makes it worse. And I don't understand his push on Chaco really. Chaco I'm town-leaning on tone and the type of comments I've been seeing from him so far.

I think I read someone calling Swiss a good scum player. Also, Chaco mentioned that he's played with Swiss a lot and that he's "intricate" (I think that's the word he used). For the time being, I'm going to place my vote on Swiss.

Chop Chop
Vote: Swiss

im pretty sure i had said this in reaction to this, but this is a weird post and position to vote swiss here. the vote here and the reasoning provided seem calculated, this wasnt really a point that anybody had mentioned and its not really a good reason to chuck a vote onto somebody. but its not a hard wagon to jump onto. it reads to me as wanting to not sound like parroting, something that noobscum get accused of a lot. its also strangely antitown for this to be the first real content post made. like there is much more that should have been commented on before this, like the explanation that exlight asked for later. beyond that, theres a weak townread on chaco thrown in. very disconnected from the thread. its still hard for me to buy that this had any townie motivation behind it.

Well, the slanking right now was due to some IRL issues, but hopefully I can post more now. Though Chinese New Year is approaching in a week or so and I'll be busy during that time, but will still try to keep up. I do tend to low-post in general, especially during early game. I'm not all that talkative and don't get into meming.

I do have to say I'm pleasantly surprised by this site so far. The last time Seth recruited me for a game on another website, I was horrified by all the toxicity. Haha. This appears to be a more mature group judging by the years of experience people have mentioned. When Rhand mentioned his 8 years, I was already impressed. But then others started talking about 10+ years. Wow! My homesite FoL has a younger player-base and they tend to meme and fluff post a lot. I always feel so old over there.

Anyway, I'm also liking the interactions here so far. There are pushes, some aggressive, and then questioning back and forth, all rather civilized. So I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how the rest of this game goes.

more really strange focus for town to have. WHY is this whysper’s content if shes town and has ample time to read through the thread? with a player like gellnick, at least i can think the content in his reads is strongly lacking. there is no evident interest in making/sharing reads as a whole that im seeing. just popping in and being... serviceable yet careful in what content to give.

Haha, sure, that's fine



Hmmm, I've actually already been trying to think of how to put it in words and planned to review him more after I finish making it through the thread. But let me see if I can sort of explain it.

His tone comes off as a bit antagonistic to me. Not as much as Rhand, but still there. Now I know this could just be playstyle, and I do want to review his posts to see if I can pinpoint why I feel that way and if it holds any substance.

Then that interaction with Wam where he basically says he's pocketing Wam to keep him on his side is just openly wolfy where it might be seen as TWTBAW. But I feel it may be a wolf comfortable with acting towny by being carefree on stuff like this. Man, not sure I'm getting across what I mean since it's not exactly solid in my mind in the first place.

Anyway, my overall impression of Swiss is an experienced wolf taking an aggressive town stance and blatantly pocketing people in hopes of keeping them on his side. Now this could definitely change after I review things more closely, but thought I'd put my thought-process so far out there.

elaboration on swiss scumread: 1) antagonistic. but softens it by saying rhand was more antagonistic. so not actually a reason. 2) the wam interaction. its not an entirely unfair assessment that it might be scum comfortable with acting carefree on openly pocketing wam, but its softened by saying it might be TWTBW, and by saying its not exactly solid in her mind. shes afforded herself wiggle room on her only read and where shes currently voted. so ****ing careful.

from this, there were notable scumreads coming to whysper. it wasnt a crazy amount, but it wasnt unjustified. and then she bounced. i think this is enough for her to still hold up as a strong scumread.

from associations, i dont think that traitor!whysper has the interactions with and about mao that she has here. itd make more sense to me if, among the very few interactions made, that as traitor she flat out ignores all scum. but she doesnt. based off that and the uncertainty of what “no result” on wiisp’s cop result is, i think id be leaning more toward whysper!mafia.

tl;dr whysper is really ****ing scummy from her content alone and reaffirms my scumread on the slot. based on their play, i say maf > traitor, and for me, theyre seriously on the table again.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

btw let me not pretend to be passively ignore tsumugi before they come in tryna throw shade at me for it

tsumugi i should be obvtown based on my play this game through and through. i suggest you read the thread before challenging me otherwise. my play is ****ing brownie townie. your implications that its scummy for me to say that are braindead

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Swiss that’s in response to the read on Gorf shifting

Alright so I re-read Gorf in its entirety but I don't have many quotes, just wanted to get my thoughts out. There's like 5 pages in the search bar to scrub through but these are my impressions.

• To me, it seemed like Gorf spent a majority of D1 conversing with ExLight. Granted that was his primary scumread but to be what I'm getting at is that he didn't really look elsewhere. The entirety of the day he discussing a very small group of people and writing off basically everyone else.

• Besides ExLight, his scumreads remained pretty constantly on Whysper, Gellnick and I, and most of their posts can be summed up as sussing these few people or just conversing with whatever was happening at the time. However, with the piece in mind about his dissuasion from doing gellnick or whysper, he was mostly just talking about his scumread without having any intention to push it. He only voted ExLight and I for the entirety of D1 until he hammered (which doesn't really matter because it helps him in this scenario to hammer as scum.) The only exception to this was that he scumread Wiisp until the cop claim. Imo he didn't say anything super alignment indicative on 1/27 until the Ex vote; to me it was mostly just backseat commentary on the Swiss/Rhand talks. So I guess he's felt pretty static and I guess I expected more in hindsight. He's still funny af but from a game standpoint I feel this isn't out of the realm of his scum game.

• Also in particular I wasn't a fan of this after comment, feels like he knows I might be town but its okay because "sometimes it be like that". I mean... yeah, sometimes it does be like, being scumread isn't super out of the ordinary in a game of mafia. It just felt like a reassurance like "I know you're town but I need to have somebody else in my 'can die' slot that isn't my scummate." Which that's going to be my next jump-off point. His scumreads are all pretty bland imo, like it's just been a bunch of people he hasn't played with much +me. Like when you're looking at people he knows and doesn't know, most of the people he knows are ranked higher, seemingly for that reason, while people he hasn't had much experience with are ranked lower. While there's definitely some merit into having background experience with certain players, it feels like a bit of a cop out because it can once again be backed up like "sorry, I haven't really seen enough of your games to recognize whether or not you're town, nothing personal". While that is definitely a true statement, like he hasn't seen gellnick's or whysper's town or scum games, and it is indeed nothing to be taken personally, that's what makes it scary imo, because it can be withdrawn just like that, especially if he wasn't actively trying to push for gellnick or whysper at the time and was mainly focusing on Ex's open wolfing. I do kinda want to hear a new readslist from Gorf on the premise that while Ex was definitely spewing scum, Shurian has flipped that slot in my mind personally to something I can definitely get behind at times.

• Now moving onto D2, what I've noticed is that Gorf has been searching primarily for the WW. And... honestly, that's probably the right call here. Taking out the final WW completely eliminates a night kill, which is pretty gamechanging for town and would put town in a much better spot compared to if they took out a mafia, debatably. But while it's better for town (I think), it is exponentially better for mafia because they get ownership of the traitor, and they have both of their teammates, putting the town in a really tricky spot on the next day. Which, because of this, I do think that Gorf's push onto the WW is likely genuine, but that's the fears of multiball. I do think Gorf is a pretty strong candidate to be mafia, but like at the same time I really do like his towncore in particular (minus him) of Swiss/Osie/Rhand/Wiisp, which is pretty close to my own. But yeah, just because somebody is pushing onto WW doesn't rule them out of being mafia which I think could be at play here. That in mind, I don't really want to go for Gorf here tonight because I could very well be paranoid on this point, especially coming from a place where I hard townread him the prior day.

• I also wanted to draw attention to this post ; this works if he says this as mafia, because he knows he isn't getting one of the NK's, and it dissuades the other from going for him when they could be making a different play that "subverts expectations", or if they're afraid of a doc being on him. Which, now that we're on the topic, when it does come down to finding the mafia, it could be a good idea to look into who townread Eido at the time; like because a town and a ww died, we know which faction killed who. The SR kill made sense because they claimed TPR, but we know that the mafia thought Eido would be a good NK, unless somehow they knew he was ww at which point oop.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

If you look at Chaco's interactions, who are the ones that really look bad out of his conversations?

I’m not sure what you want me to do, Chaco shared my slot and I know his role, tbh I really don’t care about Chaco in this game because of that. We both read the game differently.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Shurian can still be town regardless of how offputting this push is

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Yeah what's "everything"

Everything stems from the fact that he isn't really trying to hide the fact that his slot is not aligned with town.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Everything stems from the fact that he isn't really trying to hide the fact that his slot is not aligned with town.

same could be said for you right now

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

he isn't really trying to hide the fact that his slot is not aligned with town.

Well it seems like you're going to need to explain this unfortunately. It seems like you're saying "We know he's traitor because he just is, he isn't town and isn't not traitor, and he isn't even going to hide that very obvious fact."

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Actually don’t do that, you should spend all the time you have from now to Saturday rereading the thread so that you can have opinions that matter. As town you should be striving to do that, right? Or do you wanna coast till eod commenting on current events in hopes that you live till toMorrow, if there will even be one?

 

[Rhand]

Darn this game lol. I can’t get rid of the idea that Gorff and Swiss are playing me.
But I can’t write off the chance that they are right and really think we’re playing badly by suspecting them.
I can find reasons to scum read literally everyone when I reread. And with multiball, spew hardly exists.
I’m doing one more reread and then I’ll decide which way I’m gonna fall.