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Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

Tsumugi Shirogane

Tsumugi Shirogane

Ultimate Cosplayer
Premium
Joined
Jan 28, 2019
Messages
205
Location
Hope's Peak Academy
#HBC | Gorf said:
Judging by what chop chop said, this seems like emeralds first game. We can’t really expect him to have anything worthwhile to say in this situation, and even though I could have had more personal agency to get a reread in, I feel pretty confident that emerald is just the last scum. I will be reading through things tomorrow at work to get a more firm stance, but I don’t blame any of us four for not feeling like we have anything to really try steering content. Unless you guys have a serious case for why I’m gellnick’s partner, I think this is pretty much in the bag for toDay. If we wind up MLing on this, I expect that it’d be more urgent content wise.
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Yeah well something is better than anything at this point.
 
osieorb18

osieorb18

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
996
HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER, HAMMER ALL THE WAY! HAMMER HAMMER HAMMER, HAMMER IS TODAY!​

Em3rald has been eliminated!

They were... Mafia Goon

All threats to town no longer exist! Town has managed to win the game!

Green Room Discord is here.

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osieorb18

osieorb18

Smash Ace
Joined
Jan 31, 2020
Messages
996
Osie's Postgame Thoughts and Mentions:​

Post-Game Thoughts:

There aren't many games in which I've really been this actively furious with everything. Like, not only is this an unbalanced, unreviewed setup, run in an excruciatingly lazy manner, but there was extreme inactivity, toxicity, gamethrowing, and OGI/Angleshooting. I'm not proud of my own role in that. My own play here was also problematic. And even though I recognized that at the time and still do, that would never have happened had the game been hosted appropriately. I never would have felt like the game was so pointless that it was worth angleshooting. But my cryptoclaiming (which later was smoothed out with a full claim), while slimy, didn't make or break this game. I'm not going to call people out individually, but you know who you are.

The self-voting and other gamethrowing, the subbing out because the game isn't going your way, the angleshooting... All of that is ****ty. But none of that compares to the toxicity upon toxicity in this game. The problem with playing a social game on an internet forum is that people on the internet often want to forget that there's a human being on the other side of the screen. And damaging the sanctity of a social game through toxicity not only makes you an asshole, but it means you're not a skilled player, regardless of your alignment, your experience, whatever. In that moment, you're committing the cardinal sin as a player of egregiously breaking the social contract. And at least 3-5 of the players in this game fall into this description. Out of 19. And the number is much higher when you add in the OGI, angleshooting, and flaking.

Is this what we want DGames to be? A handful of people whose e-peen egos are too big to follow the social contract and play the game as intended? Who drive away anybody playing reasonably?

For any disappointment I have in my own play this game, my disappointment in the players who couldn't keep their egos in their pants is immeasurably more.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%​

Further Setup Thoughts:

The setup I've railed about in the spec chat and elsewhere. But two very important points there which should be made publicly accessible:

1. It's INSANELY dumb that town could do everything right this game and still lose:

9-1-2-2

Traitor-Elim D1 -> 9-2-2
Cupid-Kill+Babysitter-Kill+Mafia-Kill+Werewolf-Kill N1 -> 5-2-2
Werewolf-Elim D2 -> 5-1-2
Mafia-Kill+Werewolf-Kill N2 -> 3-1-2
Mafia-Elim D3 -> 3-1-1
Mafia-Kill+Werewolf-Kill N3 -> 1-1-1 Town can't win.

At that point, either town plays kingmaker, or werewolf loses because the mafia power role is better than the werewolf power role.
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2. When designing and hosting setups, there is obviously some fun involved for the host or hosts would never do it. But the point of hosting setups is for the enjoyment of the players. To quote someone who's been playing and hosting mafia games since long before most people here even were regularly using the internet:

For new designers, I'd advise that you keep your focus on what's fun for the players, more than anything. What the players will enjoy, what will make it interesting for them (not you). As a host, it should be all about the players' experience in the game, and keeping the focus there. And staying true to the core of the game, on behavioral analysis.

From there, plan for the unexpected, because it's going to happen. Don't make it fragile. Involve reviewers. And don't be afraid to be creative and break the rules and expectations that people have about mafia games. It's easy for people to just look at past setups and follow the mold, but for hosts who want to, there is no real limit on what you can do in designing new and innovative setups. So feel free to experiment, and not to be too tied to what you've seen before.

Also, don't neglect flavor. When well done, it's definitely one of the best ways to immerse players in the game and make it enjoyable.
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This game was not about being fun for the players. This game was not about behavioural analysis. This game was not reviewed. This game was not particularly creative; similar games have been run in the past on other sites, and the roles were a standard mishmash. This game was not even flavourful. The host did nothing to immerse the players in the game. The host was absent 99% of the time.

Anyways, I'mma leave that all aside (mostly) in doing mentions.

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%​

Mentions:

Wiisp Wiisp - Nice to have another game in which we find each other as town and don't putz around.

Wam Wam - I don't envy getting your role; the best move most of the time is not to use it, but that's counter-intuitive, and the role itself is bad to claim too since its best use is as an anti-town disruptive, and even then not a good role. It's a shame you had to be miselim'd for a solve.

Rhand Rhand - Yeah, it's been too long since we played together. Hopefully the next time can be in a bit of a better context. Nice shot on the Babysitter!

S Scarlet Rage - I wish I got more chances to play with you; I'm always excited to see your name in player lists. Shame you died prior to really getting going.

ExLight ExLight - Just keep it cool! The game was stressful, but you were doing a perfectly fine job while you were keeping your cool. Relax, don't worry too much about things, and you'll usually have a better time of it.

Shurian Shurian - You were a breath of fresh air in this game, and it was super cool to see you play! I look forward to seeing you around!

Whysper Whysper - Life happens; it's okay. I liked your catch on Swiss a lot. Maybe another game will work out better. I'll probably see you on FoL at some point.

Nerbins Nerbins - Pretty good reads. Seemed like you were getting there in the end. Maybe I'll see you on FoL if not around elsewhere.

Tsumugi Shirogane Tsumugi Shirogane - Thanks for not rising to the bait and playing through well. You were solid on the replace in, and worked together pretty concretely with other town. Good job.

#HBC | Gorf #HBC | Gorf - TBH, I was expecting to be more irritated by your play than I was, given personality differences. But you were fun to play with and to sort out, and a good sounding board as a team member. I look forward to seeing you around.

Chaco Chaco - Shame life happened, I was looking forward to seeing you play again. Maybe some time in the future!

UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin - I think your towngame does your scumgame a disservice because you're such a strong active solver. 😉 It was nice seeing you play here again! Don't be a stranger!

Swiss Swiss - I feel you kinda had the worst position this game in terms of luck, particularly given that you should have been in one of the best positions based on the setup. Oh well. Some solid play and you were one of my least certain reads, staying close to null throughout the game. I hope to see you around!

E Em3rald - Other people have said similar, but 99% of hosts would NEVER have replaced you into this game as your first game ever. (To be fair, 99% of hosts wouldn't have handled anything in this game in the manner it was handled.) There are several games in signups elsewhere that can give you a better idea of what mafia should be like. I would also suggest joining Wam's game when signups are up. I hope this game doesn't push you away from mafia in general. It can be a lot more fun!

gellnick gellnick - Quite decent play, but bad luck on the night actions and stuff. I hope I get to see you around more; you can check out the off-site games I'm linking below, or another game here if longer phases work for you!

Detective Mao Detective Mao - As I said on Discord, you were doing a solid job at getting people to reconsider and there's no shame in being caught on the numerics of partner handling. It's really not easy to make interactions smooth in that context, and the Eido flip was unlucky for you. I look forward to seeing you around!

Eido Eido - I was quite surprised by your flip; good job looking townie throughout. I encourage you to join more games here and elsewhere; hope to see you around!

%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%​

Shameless Game Plugging:

Ballade des Dames du Temps Jadis Mafia - A medium-small long-phase role madness game of mine on MtGSalvation. Interesting and flavourful design.

Steven Universe: Fusion Wars Mafia - A medium-large short-phase game of Tsumugi's on Mafia Colosseum.

Haiku Mafia 3 - A medium-small short-phase low-powered pseudo-role-madness game of mine on AnimeBase. These setups are usually a fun ride for people, but not entirely beginner-friendly in nature.
 
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Xivii

Xivii

caterpillar feet
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Kindgom of Science
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HBC
ExLight

ExLight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
1,305
osieorb18 said:
ExLight ExLight ExLight ExLight - Just keep it cool! The game was stressful, but you were doing a perfectly fine job while you were keeping your cool. Relax, don't worry too much about things, and you'll usually have a better time of it.
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umu
I wasn’t in a good place mentally and didn’t think I’d be able to deal with the typical “people not listening to me and making me repeat myself a thousand times just to tunnel me and then watch me struggle until everyone starts pitying me” that already happens pretty often. The sub-out was mostly strategical if anything because I can usually deal with it but I knew this time I wouldn’t be able to defend myself from getting lynched if things kept going that direction, specially since I’d prolly start getting more and more upset with the harassment and losing focus.

Overall I don’t think I did too poorly. By the end of D1 my other scumleans turned out to be Town Power Roles, which reduced my PoE; and I had FF and Swiss in my scumreads, and Mao that had dropped from Townlean to null. I think I kinda sheeped on Eido as super townie despite him being pretty null for me, but I guess that paid off since the other faction killed them lol. I don’t remember my read on Gellick at the time, I think twas null about to go townlean, so that was maybe my major mistake maybe.

I’m glad Shurian Shurian subbed in my place, tagging out really was the right call; you played greatly, thanks! uwu

Sorry if I said anything that offended anyone at any point, as it really wasn’t my intention.
 
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#HBC | Gorf

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
UtopianPoyzin UtopianPoyzin dawg when you pointed out that I was liking your posts where you called me scum I was dying lmao. I do that **** all the time, marshy pointed that **** out to me a while back. My scum game is so much better than my town game cuz as town I can easily **** the bed on reads, i.e whysper/nerbins.

But ayy i shaped up when it counted, luckily tsumugi was wise enough to see that it was obviously Swiss by d4 too cuz when I saw the gellnick and ff flips I was like “damn, tsumugi shurian and poyzin are ALL off the table, it’s literally either Swiss or me.”
 
#HBC | Gorf

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
I will say that I very much believe I’d have turned on Swiss regardless when rhand showed up dead. Somebody with experience had CLEARLY made that shot on eido. It was an amazing shot, but it was just too amazing for me to feel like just anybody would do it
 
Rhand

Rhand

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
236
Location
Belgium
ExLight ExLight please don’t ever do strategic replacements. Replacements shouldn’t be discussed for a reason.

That said, I think you saw your situation as way more dire than it was. I would have stepped up and saved you from a lynch. You were very clearly town in my world.
 
Wam

Wam

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 2, 2020
Messages
698
osieorb18 osieorb18

My plan was to find a vt and use my power as a traditional roleblock. Seemed to be the best option.
 
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