Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Rhand targeted gell so when they performed the factional kill on him, gell* died as well.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Part 2: Gorf and Swiss. One of these is mafia most likely.

Now I'm not going to dwell too much on this point because it is a lotttt of wifom, but gellnick started the game with an RVS vote on Swiss, into an unvote, into a further vote on Swiss after things had come to pass. Gorf has also been on the bottom but I think it'll be more helpful for me to grab the posts themselves, idk if you want to wait on that but yeah.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Okay so moral of the story, I think that reading gellnick's posts don't really say anything about the relationship with you personally, I think you're town for reasons that don't involve gellnick.

What gellnick being mafia does tell us is that shurian I feel is a good town candidate. Looking at their final posts, a lot of them tried to present the narrative that Shurian was trying to powerwolf, which typically this argument from scum comes from a place of saying that a townsperson is too townie in order to invalidate their towniness, i.e. make them skeptical of anything they say under the fear of power wolfing. With these types of reads from scum, I feel the best move is to occam's razor it and just see that it's likely that they're town; in any event, it's pretty counter productive for gellnick to be going for a fellow mafia member when FF and tsumugi were both super valid options at the time that were gaining a lot of traction and could've ended in a mylo scum victory. Doesn't make sense for them to go for shurian there.

Yeah well was pretty certain shurian was town anyways, since there world views were similar to mine and Rhands.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

You target a player to babysit
If you die, so does your target

Oh ****, nice call Rhand, thank you for not targeting me lmao

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Part 2: Gorf and Swiss. One of these is mafia most likely.

Now I'm not going to dwell too much on this point because it is a lotttt of wifom, but gellnick started the game with an RVS vote on Swiss, into an unvote, into a further vote on Swiss after things had come to pass. Gorf has also been on the bottom but I think it'll be more helpful for me to grab the posts themselves, idk if you want to wait on that but yeah.

I am here now, if I fall asleep I fall asleep Ill just respond when i see it,.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Honestly if FF had not been the traitor we be having a totally different conversation, and this game would have been a lot harder to solve.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Gellnick: Exhibit Swiss

A majority of swiss related posts by gellnick.

Please tell me that this works lol
Vote: Swiss

I've been playing for two years but my homesite shut down Forum Mafia so I haven't played much for the past year. We're finally starting back up again lol

Unvote
Was an RVS vote, I think we're done with RVS now.

I'm gonna keep watching, and comment if there's something I see.

Ok, I'm here. Wall of text incoming.
Also, warning: If none of this makes sense, that's because it's my thoughts on the posts. If you have questions, ask me and I'll try to explain more fully.

Not entirely sure what Swiss is doing here, imo rhand wasn't and still hasn't done anything wolfy

lol thanks, always a pleasure to be voted. I'm still trying to get used to this site, also this is the first time I've played mafia in over a year so I'm still getting back into it. Anyways, let's continue.

Yep?

I noticed this as well, I'm not sure what I think of Swiss right now. Swiss seems to be flipping from player to player, trying to pressure, but when someone puts pressure on him, Swiss flips to someone else. Not sure how I like it.

Ok, so you're a werewolf? lol
Other than that - Eido's Town for sure, I agree with that. rhand's also def town.
Why did you vote Chaco when wiisp is the top of your kill list? This is a real red flag to me.
Vote: Swiss

Your certainty that Exlight will join makes me think you know something the rest of us don't, werewolf or Mafia?

Not right now, but I'll look again.

I'm inclined to agree that Swiss is scum. Still, somehow this makes Wam seem like they're scum and trying to throw suspicion onto Swiss or Rhand. Just a gut feeling.

Yeah, I was sitting on a fence till I reread the entire game again. Am I sitting on a fence now?

You'd be surprised, Eido could be pulling exactly what I pulled in my first ever scum game, or something similar. That was fun.

I'm not happy with a rhand elim, rhand is one of the few players I think I can confidently say is Town.

There's guaranteed a mafia pushing someone, the statistics make it impossible for mafia not to be voting and it's highly likely that there's at least one scum pushing someone.

WIFOM. My favorite. I'll wait for the next day to come then, this ought to be interesting.

I feel your pain.

I'd disagree, Swiss does seem somewhat impulsive but I'm thinking it's somewhat AI.

IDK about this

good to know, Swiss/Wam team?

Yes, votecount would be nice. Side not, it's an honor to stand out. I'll try to be more active lol.

Yeah, I've been wondering about this but I'm still fairly confident eido is town.

Yes, please.

Reads list of a sort:
Town:

• Eido
• Rhand
• Me (of course)

Scum:

• Swiss
• Wam

Null:
Everyone else

Yes, I realize that it's not really indicative of much. Null is either I still haven't been able to get a read or not active.

Also, is Gorf's text always green for anyone else?

I've been reading through a bit more, and I think I can give an updated reads list.
This would be a lot easier if I could ISO...
I'll start by trying to clarify my Rhand read:
Rhand: The entire Swiss-Rhand conversation made it pretty clear to me that Swiss and Rhand are almost certainly not on the same side, unless scum is doing something crazy complex, which I doubt.

Swiss just running off like that really hit an alarm bell for me as well, I'm not entirely sure why no one except me (afaik) isn't voting him.

This really seems like a statement a Town would say, I would guess a scum!Rhand would say something to try to stop being voted, but I'm not entirely sure if Rhand cares.

Votecount for above point.

I like this post a lot. I share much the same opinion, and early unprompted claims have led to a scum victory before.

I wholly agree.

I'm now partially convinced Rhand is my twin.

This help?

I appreciate the vote of confidence, always happy to be the jester.

Lol.

I was looking specifically at the people I had as either Town or scum reads. Haven't really read much into the others, partially because I can't ISO, partially because I don't see a need atm.
I'll look at my nullreads and try to place them. Likely won't come for another few hours though.

I have had the same stand for a while: Scum!Swiss, Scum!Wam, and Town!Rhand.
I can't see a scum thinking the way Rhand does, and Wam and Swiss have both made some comments that I find way off. Call it a gut feel, but I've won on my gut before.
I'm perfectly happy with a Swiss or Wam elimination right now.
I'm going through their posts to find the comments that I really don't like.

Yes. Wam bad, Rhand good, Wiisp good, Osie good, Exlight null, Utopian bad.

Reading today so far, my thoughts:
Shurian seems like they're trying to powerwolf hard. I've seen similar acts from Town, but this seems really sudden, so I'm not sure I like it at all.
I'm putting Swiss at scumlean still - I can very much see a Shurian-Swiss scum team, but I find a Gorf-Shurian scumteam much more likely atm.
Rhand is still a townread for me, there's no way those reads are coming from scum.
I also don't really like gorf much right now - It's partially a gut feeling, partially some comments he made that I don't feel are Town.

Current readlist:
Town:
Rhand
Me
Townlean:
Nerbins
Neutral:
FrozenFlame
Utopian
Scumlean:
Gorf
Swiss
Scumread:
Shurian

In other news, I think we need to focus on getting rid of a Mafia, but any scum will do. If we get rid of a Mafia, that will split scum and make it much harder for scum to collaborate.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Gellnick: Exhibit Gorf

Keep in mind there may be light overlap, and may not embody every post, just the ones that seemed they might be useful.

I don't recall putting you as Town, I said Eido was town.
As for Mao, I'm wary of them, since I've played with a couple players that play very similar scum games to what Mao is currently playing. Call me paranoid, but I can totally see Mao trying to pocket everyone. I've seen a lot of Town behavior from them, but it seems like Town behavior that could easily be coming from scum.
Gorf... I'm having a hard time figuring him out.
I need to look at Scarlet again in particular.

Reading today so far, my thoughts:
Shurian seems like they're trying to powerwolf hard. I've seen similar acts from Town, but this seems really sudden, so I'm not sure I like it at all.
I'm putting Swiss at scumlean still - I can very much see a Shurian-Swiss scum team, but I find a Gorf-Shurian scumteam much more likely atm.
Rhand is still a townread for me, there's no way those reads are coming from scum.
I also don't really like gorf much right now - It's partially a gut feeling, partially some comments he made that I don't feel are Town.

Current readlist:
Town:
Rhand
Me
Townlean:
Nerbins
Neutral:
FrozenFlame
Utopian
Scumlean:
Gorf
Swiss
Scumread:
Shurian

In other news, I think we need to focus on getting rid of a Mafia, but any scum will do. If we get rid of a Mafia, that will split scum and make it much harder for scum to collaborate.

I've been in several games where one player suddenly decided to bus the rest of their team - resulted in an easy scum win. Another game one of the scum was the one guy who had never been scum in 4 or 5 games straight while always being a very strong town, he powerwolfed his way to victory. Similar things kept happening on my homesite for a while.

No. I don't believe I did. Lynch me, Rhand, or Nerbins, but then you'll just lose the game.

As always, I appreciate the vote of confidence. Shurian is currently the greatest scumread for me because they triggered some major alarm bells that no other player, except somewhat Gorf, did - Their sudden confidence and pushes (imo) remind me of a few games I've played where scum majorly powerwolf and win easy. Rhand, on the other hand, is doing exactly what I would expect a Town to do - I've seen only ONE player that can pull off what Rhand is doing as scum, and even then they mess up a bunch. Rhand has not (as far as I can tell) made a scumslip while pulling off the Town.

I've had some really wierd mafia experiences. This is not the worst of them by far.

I'll look some more tomorrow, but hopefully this makes some more sense.
And yes, a lot of this is based on past experiences.
And yes, I realize that may not be applicable, but I figure it's our best chance if what I suspect is true.

Ok, let me break this down. I said this is mainly based off a gut feeling and some past experiences that ended very badly for Town.
Shurian set off a few major alarms for me with their sudden activity at the start of this day, whatever day that is (I'm having trouble keeping count, it seems like Day 5 or 6 already). I do see Gorf as scum, and I honestly wouldn't put it past the scum team to bus a member today and then sail their way to victory - I saw that happen once and it essentially confirmed a scum as Town. I admit I did not make a mention of that - I thought it was obvious though, with my comments about previous experiences with scum bussing. However, Rhand, who has had relatively the same activity level, seems like a steady town, even though they're in the same direction.
I'm not exactly sure how to explain it, but Shurian seems to have quieted down since then, which has really only increased my level of suspicion.
I get your concerns, they're actually pushing you up to a townlean for me lol.

Here's my theory: Shurian is Mafia, and Gorf is a likely Mafia. I'm not sure on Swiss - I had them pinned down as Traitor but they could be Mafia easily, I'm having trouble figuring out who is who.
My guess is that Shurian sees Swiss as a Town, but a possible Traitor. They're bussing Gorf, which I can definitely see the scum team doing, as it essentially confirms Shurian as Town in many player's eyes, as I've seen in previous games. Swiss is just a side bonus, if they catch Traitor, they're confirmed as Town, if Swiss is Town they're good.
I hope this explains my viewpoint?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Anyway, I'm also liking the interactions here so far. There are pushes, some aggressive, and then questioning back and forth, all rather civilized. So I'm kind of looking forward to seeing how the rest of this game goes.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I was going to do Gorf: Exhibit Gellnick and Swiss: Exhibit Gellnick but honestly I don't think its necessary because if you search for posts by them mentioning gellnick its free content so just do that

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Shurian seems like they're trying to powerwolf hard. I've seen similar acts from Town, but this seems really sudden, so I'm not sure I like it at all.
I'm putting Swiss at scumlean still

honestly this is interesting post from gellnick to break down.

He called out 1 person for powering wolf and scum read the other.

Basically, we just gotta figure out if he's the kind of person that would hard accuse a town player and lean his partner like that. Also, he was fence-sitting the read on Shurian pretty hard.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

honestly this is interesting post from gellnick to break down.

He called out 1 person for powering wolf and scum read the other.

Basically, we just gotta figure out if he's the kind of person that would hard accuse a town player and lean his partner like that. Also, he was fence-sitting the read on Shurian pretty hard.

Wym by fence sitting? You don't think they wanted to commit to it? I guess they never actually committed to the vote but this seems like a distraction more than anything especially given the fact that gellnick wasn't in any particular danger with only one vote

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Wym by fence sitting? You don't think they wanted to commit to it? I guess they never actually committed to the vote but this seems like a distraction more than anything especially given the fact that gellnick wasn't in any particular danger with only one vote

well yeah I've seen similar acts from Town, but this seems really sudden, so I'm not sure I like it at all.

It's almost as if he didn't wanna risk giving a real read on shurian, he wanted an emergency exit

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

well yeah I've seen similar acts from Town, but this seems really sudden, so I'm not sure I like it at all.

It's almost as if he didn't wanna risk giving a real read on shurian, he wanted an emergency exit

Maybe. Personally I'm more willing to give Shurian a townread because of it, but we have plenty of time to decide. I'm going to go elsewhere for now though.

 

[Shurian]

I've taken cold showers for 2 days

I'll first apologise to Gorf and Swiss. I've been really tunneled.

Gellnick being scum... Now this setup looks good ngl (holy these are some powerful prs)

Rhand the god
Im confused as heck but yea

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

FF being the traitor feels good cuz I felt weird about the slot (he had a silver tongue but I never felt too comfortable with him).

shurian and tsumugi are as good as off the table for me. Nerbins slipping and talking about goons inheriting powers and exlight interactions with ff tell me hell no

someone HAD to shoot eido N1. It was FF, rhand, or Swiss. So I think if we lynch Swiss we win the game

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Ebwop

felt weird about the slot *from his first post, but I got caught up on the eido shot

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

At the same time though, I really don’t get why Swiss makes that shot. Eido was townreading him. But part of me doesn’t wanna overthink and wants to just full throttle body that slot, I think it’s a surefire win. But we can wait

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Now you’ll get a way sweeter side of me cuz I’m not scumreading your slot, Tsumugi, and maybe you’ll realize I wasn’t slighting your character when I was berating about having your priorities straight. I do think you can catch scum off of a limited amount of content, but I just KNEW how blatantly wrong you and shurian and rhand were when you were saying you solved the game by Swiss obviously being traitor cuz I know Swiss and he says dumb **** like that to make people react to it. That’s just what he does.

 

[Shurian]

I'm very certain that Swiss's slot isnt the mafia, nor Gorfy now.

Yeah I also know ppl talk dumb **** to generate content but it was probably just coincidence for that opening... to so happen to have Mao and Eido together as a team in the first few and WW joke

Like what would be the chances that actually was the exact ww scumteam
It looked like a traitor soft so much i was dying inside

Cold showers are freezing Dx

I noted FF because he was just going under the radar and only making attacks on ExLight (which yes, I know it's a playstyle, and it works before and in certain sites, yes) which I found suspicious. Now that I'm after the tunnel vision...

Gorf and Swiss are my next 100% clear. (Tbh whatever rhand voted I would have followed suit, wasnt expecting a modkill) The world I've been so tunneled on has been shattered and gellnick flipped mafia.


I'll reread everything and will churn something out (pls gimme a chance to discuss before I tunnel stupidly again, it happens)

 

[Shurian]

Hold on a minute

Who even is left in the game
Day 2 -> 11 ppl left
Day 3 -> 8 ppl left
Day 4 -> 5 ppl left

Wait
Shurian
UtopianPoyzin
Tsumugi
Emerald/Swiss
Gorf

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Now you’ll get a way sweeter side of me cuz I’m not scumreading your slot, Tsumugi, and maybe you’ll realize I wasn’t slighting your character when I was berating about having your priorities straight. I do think you can catch scum off of a limited amount of content, but I just KNEW how blatantly wrong you and shurian and rhand were when you were saying you solved the game by Swiss obviously being traitor cuz I know Swiss and he says dumb **** like that to make people react to it. That’s just what he does.

yeah well you can't expect me a person who has no prior meta experience with swiss to realize that, to me it just felt like he was super informed on the levels of being unaligned with town, I just believed he knew more than both factions making him the traitor.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Shurian ur clearing gorf and Swiss
#HBC | Gorf ur clearing me and shurian
UtopianPoyzin Is clearing me and shurian
I am clearing shurian and poyzin

idk what the replacement will say though

Theres just no way utopia tunnels his partner over just letting FF die, its like why even go down that avenue.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Shurian can you walk me through ur gorf and utopia read
#HBC | Gorf Can you walk me through ur read on poyzin?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

My read on poyzin is pretty much your read on poyzin, except I caaaaan see maf!poyzin pushing his partner gellnick if i tilt my head in a certain angle. If you and shurian are 99% clear, he’s like 90%. Of course this is all pending a reread but at the same time I don’t expect my read to budge.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

My read on poyzin is pretty much your read on poyzin, except I caaaaan see maf!poyzin pushing his partner gellnick if i tilt my head in a certain angle. If you and shurian are 99% clear, he’s like 90%. Of course this is all pending a reread but at the same time I don’t expect my read to budge.

The way I see it, just super counterproductive for scum poy to push gell when he could just push FF or swiss for that matter. He was just like super headstrong on gell, so I have no reason to doubt he's the town after that.

I kinda believe our best option is just lynching the swiss slot.

Shurian why do u like swiss slot here?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

The reason why he would is mostly wifom but can hold up: it’s really good positioning for him to advocate for a mafia lynch in case a cfd DOES happen. A cfd happened D1 and D2, no reason to believe it can’t in yesterDay’s position. But Occam’s razor easily points me toward swiss

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

The reason why he would is mostly wifom but can hold up: it’s really good positioning for him to advocate for a mafia lynch in case a cfd DOES happen. A cfd happened D1 and D2, no reason to believe it can’t in yesterDay’s position. But Occam’s razor easily points me toward swiss

If swiss doesn't flip mafia, game still pretty much over cause there's enough information to figure out the remaining scum.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

If swiss doesn't flip mafia, game still pretty much over cause there's enough information to figure out the remaining scum.

toDay’s problems are toDay’s problems, toMorrow’s problems are toMorrow’s problems.

 

[Em3rald]

Hey people

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Hey people

Hey Em3rald!

 

[Shurian]

Back then I only saw Swiss as possible Traitor or a scumteam with Gorf.

Since that's no longer possible I'm pretty sure they're both town. I havent reread as far as it goes so here goes.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Shurian this is pretty much what I was talking about when I was saying you really ought to think about what things might look like if you’re wrong, cuz you were wrong and you had no option 2.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Back then I only saw Swiss as possible Traitor or a scumteam with Gorf.

Since that's no longer possible I'm pretty sure they're both town. I havent reread as far as it goes so here goes.

yeah well def reread because there's not much worlds left that link gorf to gell, gorf cant be linked to FF unless he figured out he was the traitor instead of swiss which we already know wasn't even the case.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

E Em3rald you need to give us something because as it stands right now your slot has the highest chance of flipping scum, so you need to prove us wrong.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

When is EOD?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I’m figuring Thursday around 11:00 pm est

yo rhand straight up saved us this game, my boy the mvp

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Eh tbh I think I'll Unvote for now, mind as well, no rush idt.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Okay there might need to be some urgency tbh, either Emerald is mafia and isn't doing anything or Emerald is town and mafia is coasting...

E Em3rald

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Judging by what chop chop said, this seems like emeralds first game. We can’t really expect him to have anything worthwhile to say in this situation, and even though I could have had more personal agency to get a reread in, I feel pretty confident that emerald is just the last scum. I will be reading through things tomorrow at work to get a more firm stance, but I don’t blame any of us four for not feeling like we have anything to really try steering content. Unless you guys have a serious case for why I’m gellnick’s partner, I think this is pretty much in the bag for toDay. If we wind up MLing on this, I expect that it’d be more urgent content wise.