Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Also if I was traitor surely I did a terrible job. Mafia shot a werewolf night 1.

That's only bad if the werewolf team consisted of 1 member, otherwise there's nothing wrong with weakning the competition.

 

[gellnick]

It bothers me that he puts my name above his own.

Rhand Lol, ignore it. I put my name under yours because each category is random order of who I think is scummier.
Don't worry about it lmao.
Also, wtf is with a replacement replacing out?
I'm seriously tired of replacements at this point.

 

[Swiss]

Rhand sure will reread eta 12 hours as evening for me now

Tsumugi Shirogane why call gorf town thenextpost ask him to justify why he is town though

 

[Swiss]

That's only bad if the werewolf team consisted of 1 member, otherwise there's nothing wrong with weakning the competition.

Traitor can win with either faction

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Lynch me, Rhand, or Nerbins, but then you'll just lose the game.

“Or you’ll lose the game” holy crap, the amount of confidence in a Nerbins exe losing the game is utterly baffling, especially given the fact that you haven’t even began to justify that read.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I've had some really wierd mafia experiences. This is not the worst of them by far.

That question was super valid and didn’t deserve a non-answer like this. Why does scum!Shurian hard tunnel on Gorf and Swiss here.

 

[Rhand]

“Or you’ll lose the game” holy crap, the amount of confidence in a Nerbins exe losing the game is utterly baffling, especially given the fact that you haven’t even began to justify that read.

Oh heh that didn’t jump out at me ar first, but he has you as a null read.
How on earth is he making the assumption that you will lose the game if you vote there? For all he knows, you win if you do. That’s... bad.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

As always, I appreciate the vote of confidence. Shurian is currently the greatest scumread for me because they triggered some major alarm bells that no other player, except somewhat Gorf, did - Their sudden confidence and pushes (imo) remind me of a few games I've played where scum majorly powerwolf and win easy. Rhand, on the other hand, is doing exactly what I would expect a Town to do - I've seen only ONE player that can pull off what Rhand is doing as scum, and even then they mess up a bunch. Rhand has not (as far as I can tell) made a scumslip while pulling off the Town.

The thing is though, Shurian and Rhand are pushing the exact same person. They both want to go at Gorf here and you still haven’t explained the difference between the two. So Shurian is “powerwolfing”. Wouldn’t that imply that they were pushing the vote onto town in MyLo? That doesn’t seem to be the case though, because you scumread Gorf as well, and CERTAINLY you would’ve noticed that Gorf is one of Shurian’s top scumreads as well. Now, if you scumread Shurian and Gorf, and Shurian scumreads Gorf, SURELY you would expect that Shurian is bussing a mate? Yet you make NO mention of that, just that Shurian is “powerwolfing”, pushing the vote into Gorf while doing so. That seems like a very crucial detail to omit in your read of Shurian, because it’s pretty easy to be scum and label a town voice as “powerwolfing” which is so incredibly vague btw it’s unreal, especially when based on your reads you would assume that Shurian is trying to bus out a mate in MyLo yet that is never mentioned by you iirc. Looking at the Rhand rationale, things spiral into FURTHER confusion, because Rhand is doing “exactly” what you’d expect town to do... which is to scumread Gorf. This double standard is absolutely surreal.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Oh heh that didn’t jump out at me ar first, but he has you as a null read.
How on earth is he making the assumption that you will lose the game if you vote there? For all he knows, you win if you do. That’s... bad.

I'm not really too worried about his read on you, I'm far more interested on his read on Nerbins and gellnick's absolute confidence that a Nerbins vote is a net loss. With that being said, Rhand I'm curious about your read on Nerbins/Gellnick, if you're here.

 

[Rhand]

I'm not really too worried about his read on you, I'm far more interested on his read on Nerbins and gellnick's absolute confidence that a Nerbins vote is a net loss. With that being said, Rhand I'm curious about your read on Nerbins/Gellnick, if you're here.

I had Gelnink as town but that read has been blown to pieces over his last posts. I need to evaluate if why I got that townread is still valid, which means going back to that phase of the game.
Nerbins is high on my to reread list. My Swiss tunnel spewed him town and I haven’t yet done the legwork to look at him without that spew.

I’m getting ready for bed now, this is work for tomorrow.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Now, if you scumread Shurian and Gorf, and Shurian scumreads Gorf, SURELY you would expect that Shurian is bussing a mate?

I'm reading this back in my head and for some reason I can only imagine this in Ben Shapiro's voice I'm wheezing

 

[gellnick]

“Or you’ll lose the game” holy crap, the amount of confidence in a Nerbins exe losing the game is utterly baffling, especially given the fact that you haven’t even began to justify that read.

Yeah, I don't think that I can justify that anymore with the replacement and Tsumugi's posts so far.
I retract that statement.
They're currently at a scumlean/low neutral right now.

 

[gellnick]

The thing is though, Shurian and Rhand are pushing the exact same person. They both want to go at Gorf here and you still haven’t explained the difference between the two. So Shurian is “powerwolfing”. Wouldn’t that imply that they were pushing the vote onto town in MyLo? That doesn’t seem to be the case though, because you scumread Gorf as well, and CERTAINLY you would’ve noticed that Gorf is one of Shurian’s top scumreads as well. Now, if you scumread Shurian and Gorf, and Shurian scumreads Gorf, SURELY you would expect that Shurian is bussing a mate? Yet you make NO mention of that, just that Shurian is “powerwolfing”, pushing the vote into Gorf while doing so. That seems like a very crucial detail to omit in your read of Shurian, because it’s pretty easy to be scum and label a town voice as “powerwolfing” which is so incredibly vague btw it’s unreal, especially when based on your reads you would assume that Shurian is trying to bus out a mate in MyLo yet that is never mentioned by you iirc. Looking at the Rhand rationale, things spiral into FURTHER confusion, because Rhand is doing “exactly” what you’d expect town to do... which is to scumread Gorf. This double standard is absolutely surreal.

Ok, let me break this down. I said this is mainly based off a gut feeling and some past experiences that ended very badly for Town.
Shurian set off a few major alarms for me with their sudden activity at the start of this day, whatever day that is (I'm having trouble keeping count, it seems like Day 5 or 6 already). I do see Gorf as scum, and I honestly wouldn't put it past the scum team to bus a member today and then sail their way to victory - I saw that happen once and it essentially confirmed a scum as Town. I admit I did not make a mention of that - I thought it was obvious though, with my comments about previous experiences with scum bussing. However, Rhand, who has had relatively the same activity level, seems like a steady town, even though they're in the same direction.
I'm not exactly sure how to explain it, but Shurian seems to have quieted down since then, which has really only increased my level of suspicion.
I get your concerns, they're actually pushing you up to a townlean for me lol.

That question was super valid and didn’t deserve a non-answer like this. Why does scum!Shurian hard tunnel on Gorf and Swiss here.

Here's my theory: Shurian is Mafia, and Gorf is a likely Mafia. I'm not sure on Swiss - I had them pinned down as Traitor but they could be Mafia easily, I'm having trouble figuring out who is who.
My guess is that Shurian sees Swiss as a Town, but a possible Traitor. They're bussing Gorf, which I can definitely see the scum team doing, as it essentially confirms Shurian as Town in many player's eyes, as I've seen in previous games. Swiss is just a side bonus, if they catch Traitor, they're confirmed as Town, if Swiss is Town they're good.
I hope this explains my viewpoint?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Yeah, I don't think that I can justify that anymore with the replacement and Tsumugi's posts so far.
I retract that statement.
They're currently at a scumlean/low neutral right now.

Yeah, no. Given the fact that you had to retract your statement, meaning you are revising your original viewpoint, that still leaves the fact that you townread Nerbins up until page 56. When we reached page 56, now they dropped all the way down to a scumlean/low neutral. DESPITE the fact that such a jump in a read is entirely unnatural, I am still very interested in your pre-page 56 townread on Nerbins, because while you may be retracting that statement now, that isn't going to cover for your previous viewpoint. Given that you only had 2 reads on the townside besides yourself (Rhand and Nerbins), I'd expect them to be more or less grounded in something, given that they are deliberately differentiated from the rest of your null reads.

Which at the same time, we still haven't even touched the fact that you absolutely flipped the script on Nerbins from one of your only two townreads down to a scumread at the very lowest, null-scum at the very highest, after a whopping total of... 4 posts? 5 posts? With most of them just butting heads with Swiss, who by the way you believe to be traitor. Does that mean... that you agree with Swiss's train of thought presented in #2232 and #2243? Once again I'm reminding you that you asserted that Swiss was likely traitor for a Shurian/Gorf scumteam, so if you are suddenly scumreading Tsumugi out of left field from a handful of posts, where does Tsumugi likely fit in to your visualized scumteam?

Don't let this distract you from the fact that the most important thing I want to know is your town read on Nerbins all the way up to page 56. This is the most important bit that I want to hear from you. From there, I'm completely negating the fact that you are now scumreading Tsumugi based on 5 posts when Nerbins was one of your only two town reads, I'd like to know where Tsumugi falls in the scumpool for you compared to your other scumreads.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Here's my theory: Shurian is Mafia, and Gorf is a likely Mafia. I'm not sure on Swiss - I had them pinned down as Traitor but they could be Mafia easily, I'm having trouble figuring out who is who.

Then why do you scumread Tsumugi?!?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I do see Gorf as scum, and I honestly wouldn't put it past the scum team to bus a member today and then sail their way to victory

I've seen this type of thing before too; it's not uncommon if one of the mafia is getting a lot of heat it's sometimes a lot easier to just vote out said mafia member to get the town cred and then vote out a townie who wasn't a strong component of the previous mafia exe. Because if there's 3 town and 2 maf, and your mafia partner is highly suspected, even if its lylo, voting alongside of them can be a hassle if you know there's never going to be enough momentum to do anything else that Day, so mind as well save your own skin. That's basically why busses happen, and while they're much more uncommon in lylo/mylo because you're one mis-exe away from winning, it still does happen.

That being said, I still have no idea why you would scumread Shurian more than Gorf in this instance. Even if Shurian is trying to bus Gorf, why would you suspect Shurian more for it? You said that you believe Gorf is likely mafia. Shurian also believes that Gorf is likely mafia. And if you're actually town, maybe, y'know, Shurian is also town? Typically, Mafia A would bus Mafia B if they feel like Mafia B is beyond salvation and cutting them out would look better for them than keeping them around. Why would Shurian be bussing Gorf here? And even if they were, I don't see why you would vote out the hypothetically busser before the bussee; it's way safer because there's should be a much better chance that Shurian could be the same alignment as you (under the pretext that you're town), especially if you both have a similar view on who the mafia might be.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Just piecing things together at this point.

No. I don't believe I did. Lynch me, Rhand, or Nerbins, but then you'll just lose the game.

Yeah, I don't think that I can justify that anymore with the replacement and Tsumugi's posts so far.
I retract that statement.
They're currently at a scumlean/low neutral right now.

This switch is grimy af. Remember that these two gellnick quotes are only separated by one, at #2242

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

What makes you show town, as someone who replaced into the game, spell it out for me.

Why do you want somebody to explain for themselves why they're town? That basically invalidates all of their towniness because it requires them to self consciously regurgitate all of the townie things they've done, therefore making any townie thing they've done worthless if they're aware that they're doing it.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Hi, welcome me to the game; Please and Thank you.

The first order of business I thank my predecessor for posting that before swapping out that way I was left in the dark on his thoughts.

2nd order of business I won't be the most active until Saturday

3rd order of Business I have yet to find the time to back read.

View attachment 302428

That being said, I expect none of you to go easy on me, likewise, I shall not go easy on any of you.

When you're free please lmk your read of Nerbins and if you would change any parts of their readslist, and what might those parts be

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Shurian gellnick Swiss Rhand #HBC | FrozeηFlame #HBC | Gorf Tsumugi Shirogane

We're solving the game tonight. Please be here at 10 pm est so that we aren't just posting at our own respective times, so we can actually have consistent back and forths, ty

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Gellnicks posts read as incoherent and are founded on such reaching conclusions (shurian and I are scum primarily because he “feels” like shurian is bussing me. What great insight.) you’re putting the cart before the horse, it’s way too late to make up these make believe connections in your head without flips, and I don’t think you realize how lackluster your reads are. but they read about as shallow as Nerbins. The difference is that nerbins was honest enough to admit his reads were fairly shallow, while you’re trying to pass them off as reasonably founded.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Rhand sure will reread eta 12 hours as evening for me now

Tsumugi Shirogane why call gorf town thenextpost ask him to justify why he is town though

he said he was an obvious town, I wanted him to prove it lol. Explain how that's strange. I never called him obvious town or actually town, I just stated I was ok with him being removed later due to osie and wisp town coring him.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Traitor can win with either faction

wait what, why is this a thing lol. That is just dumb balance right there.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Yeah, I don't think that I can justify that anymore with the replacement and Tsumugi's posts so far.
I retract that statement.
They're currently at a scumlean/low neutral right now.

back it up, what makes me a scum lean, back this up.

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Can we get more than just Tsumugi here :v

he said he was an obvious town, I wanted him to prove it lol. Explain how that's strange. I never called him obvious town or actually town, I just stated I was ok with him being removed later due to osie and wisp town coring him.

Opinions on Nerbins' read list?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Wish I was here at my own set deadline, had some stuff to finish up but I should be active for the rest of the night

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Why do you want somebody to explain for themselves why they're town? That basically invalidates all of their towniness because it requires them to self consciously regurgitate all of the townie things they've done, therefore making any townie thing they've done worthless if they're aware that they're doing it.

Not really, if someone has the arrogance to call themselves obvious town they should be able to explain it, if you think that's me over reaching because I'm to lazy to figure it out myself as a replacement then honestly shame on you for that gross mindset lol.

Right figure I should get this out now, never finished my ISOs so putting up what I think in order of who I like most to least but it's by no means comprehensive

Shur: Actively helping, and might just be because I played with them before but I like their vibes and I trust them more than anyone else
Gorf: I also liked Gorf's vibes, but not as much as I liked Shurs'. That and Shur makes a reasonable case for him possibly being evil.

Rhand: Bit of a townlean, I like their interactions somewhat barring Gell's
Frozen: Also a townlean but they haven't posted as much as Rhand and cases for them being evil are more compelling.

Gell: Pretty null on overall. However, while I don't necessarily agree with their readlist, I like how they didn't go for the easiest golden, succulent, opulent fruit (me/FF) when it would've been easy.
Poyzin: Haven't ISO'd at all and I can't remember much of what they said beyond wanting me dead. My main (albeit probably incorrect) guess for mafia would've been Gell and Poyzin given this list, but having ISO'd the majority of what Gell said, having Rhand or FF as Gell's partner would make more sense than having Poyzin as his partner. Never determined who would make the most sense as Poyzin's partner. In short I have absolutely no concrete idea on what the most likely maf team is

Swiss: Don't trust, but he seems like he's traitor as opposed to full-fledged bad. However, for a legend scum player he seems uncomfortably obvious so that makes me nervous

Poy wants me to talk about this, so I shall.

I don't know how to feel on the Shur read because it mostly feels like confirmation bios for knowing the person and its more meta than anything.
Is gorf read feels contradicting unless I'm mis reading it. I wouldn't mind seeing this spot get lynched just not today.

I think Rhand is town here,I watched his most recent mafia game and it ain't this.
Not sure I understand the Frozen read, feels very lacking.

Gell null reads is interesting because If he were still here I doubt it be a null read anymore.
I think poyzin is town here, and I don't agree with how my predecessor thinks rhand is with Gell or anyone for that amtter.

Obvious is all you need for Swiss, everything about him just screams anti town.

 

[Shurian]

NERBINS AGYBDIAWGERIRGR THAT POST IS AIUYGRAEIWRUYGARI WQHAT IS TAHT FROZ-
Oh he replaced out

I guess I can live on the fact that Nerbins's slot isnt a golden hanging fruit now
AND I CAN FINALLY NOT HAVE 2 GOLDEN FRUITS IN THE CHAT WEEEEW

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

NERBINS AGYBDIAWGERIRGR THAT POST IS AIUYGRAEIWRUYGARI WQHAT IS TAHT FROZ-
Oh he replaced out

I guess I can live on the fact that Nerbins's slot isnt a golden hanging fruit now
AND I CAN FINALLY NOT HAVE 2 GOLDEN FRUITS IN THE CHAT WEEEEW

ya not sure on that read either, but I am here now and that is most def not my read.

 

[Shurian]

I'll be right here later once I finish changing all the bedsheets in my house

It isnt the best move and I believe that replacement completely cucked over scum but
The fact that FF hasnt replaced is grating >_>

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Obvious is all you need for Swiss, everything about him just screams anti town.

Everything, uh huh

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Don't worry Shurian, if we take FF out of the picture then there's 2-3 mafia within 7 players. I think FF would be somewhat present if he was actually scum here so tbh I'm not even considering him as an exe today, there are so many more fruitful options.

Vote: Gellnick

Tsumugi that vote is waiting for you to somewhat recover from what Nerbins was laying down.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

Everything, uh huh

Does a certain someone have something they wanna get off their chest?

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

. I think FF would be somewhat present if he was actually scum here

Is this a meta thing with ff?

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Does a certain someone have something they wanna get off their chest?

Yeah what's "everything"

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

Is this a meta thing with ff?

I guess? I think scum!ff makes more of an effort but missing large parts of phases is pretty nai, there's some examples let me grab them

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

I guess? I think scum!ff makes more of an effort but missing large parts of phases is pretty nai, there's some examples let me grab them

Pretty nai for FF*

I think Completely Vanilla and Apex Legends there were similar reads of FF not being the most active person which is fine ngl but in the former they did try to make themselves more present when they were scum, but regardless activity is not a big concern of mine regarding Frozen, if he has stuff going on then he has stuff going on its rarely worth reading into imo.

 

[Tsumugi Shirogane]

I need to sleep, but ill get back to you later poyzib. When is eod?

 

[Shurian]

How do I do something without being obvious...
UtopianPoyzin gellnick

 

[UtopianPoyzin]

How do I do something without being obvious...
UtopianPoyzin gellnick

That's fine I get what you're putting down