Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[Shurian]

By take action fast: I mean clear up questions and make sure everyone is on the same page. Bad wording*

And if anyone has any other ideas that my (probably) tunneled ass has missed, please do inform me.

 

[Rhand]

Do not analyse from D2 onwards. There is potential anti spew (tho he kept hard defending Mao).

There wasnt much besides shading and stuff as per what I remember.

Swiss didnt even go after me for purposefully avoiding the S/S argument question he asked me at the start. (Which btw, on hindsight, is absolutely ridiculous coming from me).

And yes, it was the crosskill that broke the game. There is one question: Why did Mafia attack Eido?

Because they didnt think Swiss would be so bold? Swiss did a really good job of softing the members in d1 tho

Swiss was softing to werewolves. Mafia might not have figured out he was the traitor. Or they thought Swiss was telling them who the best kills were by calling them town.
Or, if they realised what Swiss was doing, they figured they had to kill werewolves to have a chance at winning.

By take action fast: I mean clear up questions and make sure everyone is on the same page. Bad wording*

And if anyone has any other ideas that my (probably) tunneled ass has missed, please do inform me.

I like that we came to the same conclusion at the same time. That gives me faith that we are correct.

 

[Shurian]

I was sure of Gorf being mafia through associations in D1, as well as his insistence to me that Swiss should be anything other than traitor (which he isnt town pr) was pinging me as odd. I thought they were the scumteam about 12 hours after the lunch.

I'm only looking at FF as second mafia because he was inactive. That and the associations were just a tad bit too juicy.

Why do we use associations to solve this game?
Because Swiss happened to do a bold move, and honestly it is really brilliant. As I've said a lot of times before, it would've worked if Eido didn't flip scum. Mao and Eido both flipped WW. Not VT? Big ripperinoes.

I want to return to a fluffy me so I can focus on the game in my homesite xD
I'm supposed to be a fluffy pancake not Watson to Holmes.

 

[Swiss]

Skimmed.

Sorry for the afk yesterDay end, I thought there was another actual day so missed eod.

Bizarre push on me. But since you seem to think I'm traitor, and seem to not want to lynch a traitor...Makes no sense.
Like if you think I'm evil you just push me. But I'll take it since MyLo.

I think Rhand is town and wrong, I think
FF's posts have been ok to me, the connections people make don't really mean much to me.
Rhand, UP, Gorf my townlist.
UP was seer'd so not traitor.


Leaving :
ExLight Shurian
gellnick
FrozenFlame
Whysper Nerbin

 

[Swiss]

Quick one since this annoys me

And yeh Swiss is traitor. Having both ww’s as townreads in his lists and calling himself werewolf. It’s pretty obvious.
We don’t need the traitor dead though, hunting mafia is foremost important.
Swiss should be our “we don’t know who to yeet” backup yeet.

Everyone called Mao & Eido town save Osie D1.

Christ alive calling myself ww as a joke I never thought you guys would bite this hard in the wrong direction. I drop stuff to see how people react and get conversation going, like the Rhand push. It's an easy meta check I do it all the time.

Then using the "not vt" as a "crumb to ww's" excuse ignoring the fact it came straight after me suggesting we mass claim. You are wilfully not reading in context and cherry picking only the bits you want. I called Eido not VT as he was the first to post after the mass claim post (and didn't claim).

Show me 'crumbs' to mafia - if I am traitor, D1 I could not have known WW's would be out so early - so I'd want both factions to do equally well.
Hence, using your own logic, you will be able to clearly demonstrate which two players are mafia based on my posts.
Shame no-one made any of these 'link' posts about my crumbs before Mao flipped. Because you're viewing it the wrong way round.

Rhand I think you probably are town but I need you to take a step further back and read my posts as they are made & intended, as a series of quick posts in real time and not solid, discrete individual posts.

Nerbins commuted, Nerbins goes toDay. Lynching mafia or traitor doesn't matter. Just get a evil.

vote: nerbins

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Swiss is not the traitor are you guys on crack? Why the **** does traitor!swiss haaaaaard defend mao yesterday instead of just jumping ship and putting his bets on mafia? There’s no reason for him to stick his neck out like that

also you guys are soft if you think I’m scum at this point. I should be towns only townread you guys are nuts

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

FF/nerbins/rhand/gellnick/poyzin

that’s my pool, I’ll go ahead and solve the game for you guys again this phase

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Although shurian is really tryna throw here huh

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I almost wanna vote nerbins to force a game over if we’re wrong because of how badly it looks like shurian and rhand wanna throw the game

 

[Rhand]

Swiss is not the traitor are you guys on crack? Why the **** does traitor!swiss haaaaaard defend mao yesterday instead of just jumping ship and putting his bets on mafia? There’s no reason for him to stick his neck out like that

also you guys are soft if you think I’m scum at this point. I should be towns only townread you guys are nuts

Because he thought he had enough clout to get Whysper eliminated.

Why should we townread you here?

 

[Rhand]

Swiss’ townreads on both werewolves came way too early and were big reasons why the whole thread developed those reads.

And there is that post where he calls Gorf not VT and asks him to back off. Like he was calling Eido not VT.
Explain that post please Swiss?

 

[Rhand]

Oh Gorf why are you suddenly not bothered anymore by Swiss trying to lynch traitor over mafia?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

And there is that post where he calls Gorf not VT and asks him to back off. Like he was calling Eido not VT.
Explain that post please Swiss?

this post proves to me that you’re not good at the game of mafia. Please try proving Wiisp right and being decent at mafia

 

[Rhand]

this post proves to me that you’re not good at the game of mafia. Please try proving Wiisp right and being decent at mafia

Are you claiming power now?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Quite frankly you should townread me cuz wiisp and osie townread me, more than anything else. I think I’m playing pretty obvtown

Are you claiming power now?

no. I’m saying that your read on that take is pathetically bad because you took 0 context into the making of it, and that is a recurring theme in your reads. You called maos one interaction with eido not w/w, but you failed to take into consideration the context around that one post. Your reads AREN’T looking good and I suggest you fix that instead of just auto piloting

 

[Shurian]

I'm here and I'm...

While gorf looks terrible from associations, his denial of Swiss being Traitor makes it worse for him... It really looks bad Gorf >_>

Then again, please do make something for me to push Nerbins on besides his ridiculous lack of original content. Lack of content does not mean frozen scum in their sake. I'm waiting for him.

I have really tried to see Swiss as Town, and I honestly don't see a Town Swiss at all.

He had decided to favor content on the very first page: While yes, it created a weird conflict, the result that came out of it were

Chaco Scum (Now Utopian)
Wiisp Scum (Claimed Cop - FLIPPED COP)
ExLight Scum (There's no point for me to look at me xD)

Productivity: Yes.? Looking Good? No.

The weird emphasis on productivity in the first page and early townreads is off-putting. I'd say scum would have a higher incentive to be productive than town here: To appear townie and cause mislynches. The earlier you're townread, the earlier you'd breeze through. That happened for Eido and Mao. You cant deny that they'd be rowing with the current in a raging river if Eido didnt get killed in the first place.

What did we even get from the first? Nothing spectacular. Sure it set a basis of conflicts, but really, why must it be post 28? It really looks WAY too coincidental to be not Traitor for him.

Furthermore, Mao had nothing to say to my analysis on her wanting to move on from thread, which means it is most likely true - She noted the soft from Swiss the Traitor and wanted to quickly move away.

Gorf, what was your POE back in D2 for WW?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Swiss you’re gonna make me feel real ****ing stupid if Im forced to spend all Day derailing your lynch and your activity is as pathetic as it was yesterDay. I’m tryna find scum, there’s more than nerbins

 

[Rhand]

Quite frankly you should townread me cuz wiisp and osie townread me, more than anything else. I think I’m playing pretty obvtown



no. I’m saying that your read on that take is pathetically bad because you took 0 context into the making of it, and that is a recurring theme in your reads. You called maos one interaction with eido not w/w, but you failed to take into consideration the context around that one post. Your reads AREN’T looking good and I suggest you fix that instead of just auto piloting

They had me as top town too and yet I’m in your POE.

I did come back from that Mao/Eido read.
Maybe explain the context to me rather than calling me bad for it?

 

[Shurian]

Also
Damn it osieorb18 and Wiisp
If u didnt screamed loverized maybe I could've pulled it off and saved both of u; I didn't even realise how bad that was until a while ago >_<

I won't bother going into NKA because the main crux was
Mafia -> Eido (Town)
WW -> Scarlet (Parity Cop)
Mafia -> Osie or Wiisp (Outed Lovers) -> Force MyLo

Is pretty simple.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I swear there’s no world where traitor hard defends mao in yesterDay. Why ****ing bother stick your neck out for a sinking ship like that

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

They had me as top town too and yet I’m in your POE.

I did come back from that Mao/Eido read.
Maybe explain the context to me rather than calling me bad for it?

you’re in my Poe by happenstance, you’re my best read in there largely BECAUSE of wiisp and osie. Start acting like I should trust their read

 

[Rhand]

I swear there’s no world where traitor hard defends mao in yesterDay. Why ****ing bother stick your neck out for a sinking ship like that

Because having an extra night kill that doesn’t crossfire secures his victory.
And I think he really believed he could get us to lynch Nerbins.

Why are you taking Nerbins as confirmed scum? Mafia does have a PR.
And why don’t you have issues with Swiss going after traitor over scum with (killing) power?

 

[Shurian]

I swear there’s no world where traitor hard defends mao in yesterDay.

Why?

What would happen if he were to hard bus? Yea rip Mao. No chance...

What would happen if he were to continue to push Nerbins without defending Mao?
Yea rip Mao. He'd get ignored, as that's about the same thing as before. Nothing's changing.

The highest chance of her surviving is if they were at least protected. Remember, preflips are a huge lol. Why? Because they would cast doubt on the people trying to get Mao. I certainly did doubt myself near the end and was thinking of a CFD onto Frozen. Glad I stuck it out though.

 

[Shurian]

And by far, I'm applying Occam's Razor to everything here.
There is no need for me to go into the 3 dimensionals or the 4th.

I'm not playing against eevee here after all. (The man who openwolfed and got me out)

 

[Rhand]

13 players, 5 bad guys.

3DSNinja
ExLight
gellnick
Scarlet Rage
Wam
Swiss - werewolf
Wiisp
Rhand - scum
FrozenFlame
Chaco
Whysper
Eido - not vanilla town
Gorf
Detective Mao - town

#HBC | Gorf please tell me how you can find this NOT suspicious. It came halfway page 1 of the game.
He (and you) kept saying after this that the call for massclaim was obviously not serious, so putting Eido as not VT for the rest of the game because of it makes no sense. And neither does townclearing Mao for hardly any posts.
Do you really believe that’s all a coincidence given the werewolf flips?
He signals them both in one post while calling himself werewolf ffs.

 

[Shurian]

I also see it clear as day, ever since I posted the question pertaining to Swiss whether he has ever joked in day 1. He didnt respond, but the later posts he emphasized on the "werewolf" part being a joke.

I mean like, be it confirmed town, confirmed scum or mafia, it'd incriminate Swiss anyway. Werewolf... is really icing over the top.

Like Rhand was just wondering what that post (28) was about and suddenly he got slammed. It's as if that post had something to hide early on. People did have a feeling for it (gellnick, Wiisp and Osie I've seen) but it was hidden well enough to be stowed away.

 

[Shurian]

The votes needed are
gellnick
Nerbins
UtopianPoyzin
Rhand
Me

Just a reminder. We are at MyLo. Standing for Mislynch and Lose. Everyone has their own opinions; Read and gauge the situatiob for yourself.

If I'm wrong and Swiss had a 3000 iq mode where he actually buddied up with rhand to make this crazy world which I see very clearly clouding my eyes, I admit defeat, that's a eeveelicious play that spans over the planes of existence.

Well, we would see after the gorf flip.

My vote will be on Gorf today. I wanna be the one to hammer*

Reason: Gorf is hardset on Swiss not being traitor. One of the few reasons is that if Swiss were to be confirmed as Traitor (which he blatantly is), it would severely implicate him and Frozen through the reads. Probably.

Hunting the second WW was a trap for the mafia, because I needed someone to mindmeld that Swiss was Traitor. (It's unfortunate about the cupidified lovers, Wiisp and Osie were on the verge of realising as well).

I guess Frozen lives for another day? I guess the others need to show up first tho.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

swiss came in at a critical juncture to try hard defending mao because of a d1 townread. that takes some SERIOUS ****ing hubris to make a claim at a point where the tides really couldve turned. i think the traitor was either wishy washy on a stance or on the lynch with mao. swiss is neither of those things. its just dumb, and itd be an insult to swiss for me to think that is something he might do.

rhand you make swiss out to have just had the hubris to think he can just force through a lynch on nerbins. swiss played like someone who had to take a step back because of him being wrong about the gamestate (townreading eido) and just abstained from trying to control yesterDay. he also said as much at the beginning of D2. i dont believe that you believe he had that hubris yesterDay if you just stopped and thought for a second. youre going to lose us the game.

swiss said “gorf not vt but stop that” yesterDay as a joke about me having brought that up and ALSO thinking he might be traitor for it, and he proceeded to be clear about why he had made that joke about eido at the beginning. he gave me the context, it was just being cheeky, and with swiss, that should be read as such. you got a LOT of meta defense from wiisp early on, and i think im gonna have to play wiisp through how much nai bull**** youre using to forge a read on him.

im going to pull up that stupid assertion you made about mao to hopefully illustrate to you how flawed your approach is because of your lacking of context when you come up with reads.

its been a while since swiss was playing here, but the meta used to be VERY personality dominated on smashboards. whether you think that was a good or bad thing is up for debate, but players who dominated the meta with personality did so because their meta proved that their methodology produced crucial associations and reactions and made people feel compelled to contribute, scum included. so so much of your surface level analysis is going to make swiss look antitown because its not pretty, but its just the way the game is when they play. HIS playstyle is the reason i decided to /in. ryker is another one thats already been mentioned that plays like this. marshy is like this too but hes been playing mafia, so hes adjusted to the shift in meta from other sites coming to play. youre full of **** if you think swiss is the only player that townread both mao and eido. i was too in D1. most of the ****ing thread was. i understand if you think swiss is ****ty enough of a player to openly crumb to his teammates in that manner, but i know that that is NOT how swiss would crumb to his mates there. cuz thats baby level. i know scarlet gave chaco **** for this early, but swiss IS a legendary scum player.

Because having an extra night kill that doesn’t crossfire secures his victory.
And I think he really believed he could get us to lynch Nerbins.

Why are you taking Nerbins as confirmed scum? Mafia does have a PR.
And why don’t you have issues with Swiss going after traitor over scum with (killing) power?

imo that is VERY convenient reasoning to hard defending a sinking ship like that. i cant believe that a competent scum player does that. i might believe that an incompetent scum player does that tho

nerbins is open wolfing as far as im concerned. i dont even really care about the commuter thing that much: he could be cftwr for all i know but literally what the **** is he doing to try fulfilling towns win condition? his actions tell me he has no interest in doing so

right now im happy with lynching scum. id prefer lynching mafia but i dont think itll be that that easy to make calls like that and might not even be productive to make associations before flip. i might change my mind as the Day goes but yesterDay it was way more important to make the right lynch. toDay and onwards, its about lining scum up and knocking them out.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Reason: Gorf is hardset on Swiss not being traitor. One of the few reasons is that if Swiss were to be confirmed as Traitor (which he blatantly is), it would severely implicate him and Frozen through the reads. Probably.

Hunting the second WW was a trap for the mafia, because I needed someone to mindmeld that Swiss was Traitor. (It's unfortunate about the cupidified lovers, Wiisp and Osie were on the verge of realising as well).

I guess Frozen lives for another day? I guess the others need to show up first tho.

for a person so gung ho about people being low level mafia players, this is some chief low level ****ing analysis right here

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

This doesn’t feel like buddy/buddy

this is where you didnt use context to get a read on mao. you read the words and only the words of maos post to say that this doesnt feel buddy/buddy. and sure, i can see that if i only saw this snippet. but you didnt take the context of their complete lack of interaction throughout into account when thinking about this. more when i pull up my correct analysis of this same post

 

[Shurian]

I mean, I am a low level mafia player, I have ways to go. I'd improve over time, but I have to polish my basics first.

I am not you. I have never played against Eido, Osie, Rhand or any others in the thread. I haven't memorized the patterns and mannerisms of every player here. I won't take another player's word for someone else's meta: That's lazy and rude to the other player; I feel.

What I do know, however, is that I have to judge for my own eyes, or else I am unable to learn. In that case, could I request that you guide me through everything after the game has ended?

I am weak in the world of forum mafia and other related social deduction games. If I do exasperate you, please do cut me some slack. I will miss things, I'm not the best, and I like to think I'm not the most hopeless one.

Back to topic, please propose another world where the scum are.

Let's say Nerbins is Traitor. Who would their mafia counterparts be?

If Nerbins is Mafia. Who would their mafia partner be?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

reading mao’s iso, this is the first real interaction mao has with eido. there was one point where she called him noobtown for some reason in like pg 7 and she mentioned him when casing exlight, but this is the first direct interaction (which eido doesnt respond to). knowing eido is ww, i have a hard time understanding why she singled out eido here in particular when there were enough people talking about it making less sense for wiisp to fakeclaim than for wiisp to just be the real cop. and i dont think im wrong in saying this, but she didnt even bring it up to exlight (yet) even though he was her prime scumread. its strange placement

look at this. i should frame this **** on my wall at home. here, im using the context of the situation to make the RIGHT call about mao faking an interaction with Eido here, and this really helped me solidify my read on that position being strangely taken there.

so please, rhand, dont pretend that youre ****ing infallible here. take a slice of humble pie and try to take your blinders off. i am making this appeal to you because i believe youre good, but you are not playing like it.

 

[Shurian]

Is it really bad for experienced players to use level one?

 

[Shurian]

What am I supposed to do then DX

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

I mean, I am a low level mafia player, I have ways to go. I'd improve over time, but I have to polish my basics first.

I am not you. I have never played against Eido, Osie, Rhand or any others in the thread. I haven't memorized the patterns and mannerisms of every player here. I won't take another player's word for someone else's meta: That's lazy and rude to the other player; I feel.

What I do know, however, is that I have to judge for my own eyes, or else I am unable to learn. In that case, could I request that you guide me through everything after the game has ended?

I am weak in the world of forum mafia and other related social deduction games. If I do exasperate you, please do cut me some slack. I will miss things, I'm not the best, and I like to think I'm not the most hopeless one.

Back to topic, please propose another world where the scum are.

Let's say Nerbins is Traitor. Who would their mafia counterparts be?

If Nerbins is Mafia. Who would their mafia partner be?

i appreciate your honesty. tbh i was ready to write you off as likely town that wouldnt be worth trying to convince, but i wont do that.

i have never played with eido, osie, or rhand either. but playing FM’s for over a decade gets you comfortable with being able to organize the mannerisms and patterns of players as they come, and more importantly, the things that you should maybe NOT take into consideration when trying to make an accurate read.

i dont expect you to just be comfortable letting someone guide you to making better reads in game, but to a degree you gotta be willing to take what everyone has to say with serious consideration, without prior bias. youve been saying swiss is open traitor. what if youre ****ing wrong? you have nothing. that should SCARE you.

assuming youre town, id be glad to talk to you postgame about some things you can do to help you improve your quality of reads immediately. but right now, what i can say is that it might be in your best interest to be more open to other people‘s reads than youre making yourself out to be. regardless of our tough exterior, rhand, swiss, wiisp and i have been very consistently open to listening to other people‘s reads and letting that possibly influence our own. because of that, we lynched mao. you are not hopeless, i just think your current deduction is kinda shallow right now, which isnt the end of the world.

right now, im sitting on nerbins and ff are scum, and that the other scum is between poyzin/rhand/gellnick. i dont think you or swiss fit as any scum, but im gonna be working through the Day to reaffirm my positions.

i think you had asked for my D2 poe too? ****ing reread D2, im not interested in digging through my own posts when i think i outlined my thought process really really clearly. if you read my eido iso you can see the big breakdown of eido associations, and i did a lot of poeing down in the pages prior

Is it really bad for experienced players to use level one?

using level 1 analysis is really bad right now, and i think its an even bigger mistake in multiball than it is in general. it has its place, especially D1, but you need to expand your possibilities. look at what EVERY possibility can be and weigh them fairly against themselves.

 

[Nerbins]

Right so I’m having a bad start to my week, I’ll give my ISOs later today but tbh I haven’t completely finished any of the new ones yet. Much as I hate to say it, what Gorf said about Swiss makes sense, could’ve been a play or I could be thinking too narrowly but I don’t see how Swiss thought he could’ve CFD’d onto me yesterday, was obvious at that point that Mao was going. To someone who’s supposedly a legend scum player that seems like the wrong move to make since all that would do is paint them as traitor.
I still lowkey trust my ISO on Frozen but that could change after I finish ISOing other people.
Also what’s a CFTWR

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

caught for the wrong reasons

 

[Swiss]

Is it really bad for experienced players to use level one?

All of you need to drop this level bull**** btw. It’s nonsense and Either holds people back or helps you misread.

 

[Swiss]

Nerbins full reads please

 

[Swiss]

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

it’s crunch time