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Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

#HBC | Gorf

#HBC | Gorf

toastin walrus since 4/20 maaaan
Joined
Apr 10, 2009
Messages
6,563
Location
Jacksonville, FL
ill tell you what scum!wiisp gains, it really was gearing up to be swiss v wiisp and wiisp doesnt win that without a cop claim
 
Rhand

Rhand

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
236
Location
Belgium
#HBC | FrozeηFlame said:
you very clearly do not understand how to maximize your chances of winning as traitor lmao

keep both teams alive as long as possible is +EV for traitor, it doesn't matter if the traitor dies early, they're the weakest scum role and they win even if they die as long as either scum team wins
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Yeh I’ve had that thought. They also have the biggest possible spew in their iso because they know all 4 and they can stand in the way of a NK.
I still don’t think it’s Wiisp though.
 
ExLight

ExLight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
1,305
#HBC | FrozeηFlame said:
do you not understand how.... the game of mafia works?

town players win with town even if they die as long as town win con is satisfied, mafia mates win with their living mates even if they die as long as mafia achieves wincon, why would that be any different for a traitor that wins if either mafia or WW wincon is satisfied?
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The traitor variants I’ve seen included recruiting and they couldn’t win with mafia if they died before getting recruited. I’m assuming it’s not the case here.

Traitor winning with either teams even if they die seems completely nonsensical since they can try to sabotage a team all game and get shot to be silenced and end up winning with them anyway.
 
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
wow cool exlight you've played with variants that do XYZ? Neat, can you stop projecting your anecdotal experience now and stop telling everyone they're wrong for not agreeing with your anecdotal experience?

Chop Chop said:
Mafia and Werewolves
14 Players

Cop
Seer
Town Power Role
Town Power Role
Town Power Role
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Vanilla Town
Mafia Power Role
Mafia Goon
Werewolf Power Role
Werewolf Goon
Traitor JOAT (Rolecop, Vest Inventor, Commuter)

The Traitor appears on both the Cop and Seer Checks.
They Know who the Mafia and Werewolves are and can win with either of them.
Click to expand...
 
ExLight

ExLight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
1,305
Detective Mao said:
Haven't you been reading? There are a lot of advantages to Scum Wiisp claiming here, even if only just for surviving another day. I understand that you're a new player, if I recall correctly, but we've stated a lot of the reasons already. Don't take everything at face-value.
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Mafia!Wisp claiming Cop means sacrificing half of their team to get rid of someone that would usually out noone from their team and Wolf!Wisp has no reason to help the other team out the Cop.

While it’s fair that it makes everyone hesitate a bit more due to it being an open role it makes literally no sense for the Cop to not claim in the multiball since guaranteeing one Mafia dies is better than what they would’ve normally pulled and they can still be watched/protected.
 
Detective Mao

Detective Mao

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Jan 26, 2021
Messages
119
Based on Frozen and Gorf's recent posts, I'm comfortable leaning them town. I still have to re-read this thoroughly. This is the most active this thread has been yet, haha.

As of right now, I'm obviously not a fan of killing Wiisp even though I think they might or might not be speaking the truth just so that we won't lose a PR. Killing a PR claim like this would still be bad. However, ExLight's accusations are lacking so much genuine thought process that a town would definitely consider, so I'm pretty sure ExLight's just scum here. ExLight and Swiss are never the same faction here by the way ExLight started pushing on a Swiss kill immediately. It's not that Scum!Swiss trying to get Wiisp killed isn't a possibility, but when he INSISTS it's the only possible explanation, I have a hard time believing his push is in good faith, especially since we've tried to explain it to him many times now.

I'm going to go catch some Z's, but right now I think that none of Wiisp, ExLight nor Swiss are coming out looking that good here. I'm starting to consider a possibility of Wiisp/ExLight scumteam, but I'll look into that tomorrow. Good night^^
 
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
take up your "non-sensical" complaint with the mod bro jfc, read the ****ing rules before you try to convince anyone to take your mechanical arguments seriously, it's exhausting
 
Wiisp

Wiisp

Smash Lord
Joined
Feb 4, 2020
Messages
1,783
Rhand said:
Yeh I’ve had that thought. They also have the biggest possible spew in their iso because they know all 4 and they can stand in the way of a NK.
I still don’t think it’s Wiisp though.
Click to expand...
Ya now he actually makes real time posts, that feel decent enough, none of which happened before

unvote:
Ya I'm at a lost right now, and I'm pretty sure I take my second misexecute in years
 
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
ExLight said:
Dude, why is your interpretations here more valid than mine? Stop being an asshole, will you?
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uhhhh, because they're based on the ACTUAL rules that the mod set, not your baseless speculation based on past experience? sorry for being a **** about it but it's annoying af having to spoon feed you the setup while you simultaneously claim to be the authority of wiisp's EV for possibly fakeclaiming
 
Rhand

Rhand

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Jan 25, 2021
Messages
236
Location
Belgium
#HBC | FrozeηFlame said:
can exlight fundamentally misunderstand the setup this much and still be scum? like he can't be traitor at this point unless he's playing dumb deliberately
Click to expand...
I am happy you reached this conclusion. Can you focus on identifying scum instead of bad play now? Thanks.
 
ExLight

ExLight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
1,305
#HBC | FrozeηFlame said:
uhhhh, because they're based on the ACTUAL rules that the mod set, not your baseless speculation based on past experience? sorry for being a **** about it but it's annoying af having to spoon feed you the setup while you simultaneously claim to be the authority of wiisp's EV for possibly fakeclaiming
Click to expand...
So you being annoyed is a reason for you to be an asshole?

Where does it say in the main post that they win regardless of them dying? I had different experiences from you, and the host might’ve had as well.

I don’t see where you’re reading that the traitor wincon is exactly the same as the wolf/scum team because the way it was worded made me believe it was more of a survivor-esque wincon which makes more sense to me in a multiball.

Feel free to be petty as **** and disrespect me as a person but to treat like my experience with the game in other communities is less valuable than yours makes me sick to my stomach and is highly toxic.
 
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
ExLight said:
So you being annoyed is a reason for you to be an asshole?

Where does it say in the main post that they win regardless of them dying? I had different experiences from you, and the host might’ve had as well.

I don’t see where you’re reading that the traitor wincon is exactly the same as the wolf/scum team because the way it was worded made me believe it was more of a survivor-esque wincon which makes more sense to me in a multiball.

Feel free to be petty as **** and disrespect me as a person but to treat like my experience with the game in other communities is less valuable than yours makes me sick to my stomach and is highly toxic.
Click to expand...
not a reason, but an explanation. don't try to claim victimhood all of a sudden now when you were literally trying to call people dumb for even considering that wiisp might be fakeclaiming. just because you overreached and got called out for your incorrect assumptions and don't feel great about it doesnt make me a monster

YOU invented the "you must survive" wincon for the traitor. you did that. no where does the rules suggest that the traitor, that is explicitly stated to be able to win WITH EITHER SCUM FACTION, must survive as well. the need to survive to win is not a default condition for the vast majority of roles. don't get upset that you made **** up with no basis and got called on it. you even say yourself that it "makes more sense to me." ok great, next time say THAT instead of calling us all dumb and "throwing the game" for not making the same baseless assumption and as a result having fundamentally different math than you

I never said you experience with other game communities is less valuable than yours, that's an insane stretch. I literally just said to stop substituting your anecdotal experience for gospel. I never said those other communities you played with were less than in ANY way. I was calling you out on you using anecdotal experience a definitive evidence, which is a blatant logical fallacy
 
ExLight

ExLight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
1,305
#HBC | FrozeηFlame said:
I never said those other communities you played with were less than in ANY way. I was calling you out on you using anecdotal experience a definitive evidence, which is a blatant logical fallacy
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lol, apparently you were because my experience with this kind of roles in the games I played means ****ing nothing to you to the point you feel like I’m a ******** that has to have you spelling **** out to me

just go **** yourself will you
 
#HBC | FrozeηFlame

#HBC | FrozeηFlame

BRoomer
BRoomer
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
2,031
Location
Albuquerque, NM
bro there was NO suggestion, the rules explicitly state traitor can win with either faction. That's it. There's no "suggestion" about whether they have to survive. The rules are silent on that. YOU invented the need to survive, based on your anecdotal experience. And you were wrong to do that because it's blatantly fallacious. not that complicated, and that's all I've ever been claiming
 
ExLight

ExLight

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 22, 2020
Messages
1,305
#HBC | FrozeηFlame said:
bro there was NO suggestion, the rules explicitly state traitor can win with either faction. That's it. There's no "suggestion" about whether they have to survive. The rules are silent on that. YOU invented the need to survive, based on your anecdotal experience. And you were wrong to do that because it's blatantly fallacious. not that complicated, and that's all I've ever been claiming
Click to expand...
They can still lose if they die but have a wincon that allows them to win with either factions, I don’t see why my interpretation is so absurd considering my experience with traitors.

Chop Chop Chop Chop request to get replaced out, I haven’t been feeling well lately already and I don’t want to have to deal with people that might only worsen me.

#HBC | Gorf said:
i thought osie subbed for chaco?
Click to expand...
no he subbed for Ninja
Chaco’s slot still looking for replacement
 
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