Mafia and Werewolves Gamethread

[ExLight]

yall saying an outed cop is worthless but you don’t realize that a cop usually gets 0-1 results in a game with these many players with 3 scum and that a counterclaim actually guarantees a scum death in 2 phases which is better than most of cop performances

 

[ExLight]

it makes literally no sense for scum to claim cop in this setup and yall losing it

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

do you even know what Wiisp’s read on me is?

his claimed read on you literally doesn't matter when he's open buddying you by play

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

it makes literally no sense for scum to claim cop in this setup and yall losing it

your noob is showing

 

[ExLight]

your noob is showing

bruh you didn’t even know what a commuter was

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

your noob is showing

it's hilarious how there's a complete other possibility for what wiisp is that he's missing that fundamentally alters his math lmao

 

[ExLight]

I was nominated by two different forums for the champs yall gotta give me at least SOME credit right

 

[ExLight]

it's hilarious how there's a complete other possibility for what wiisp is that he's missing that fundamentally alters his math lmao

wdym

 

[Wam]

i also thinking surviving even a Day is huge for either scum team since there are two factional kills

Where was this confirmed?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

you understand there are 4 separate possible wincons in this game right? and that they each have a different calculus in wiisp's claimed position?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Where was this confirmed?

Chop Chop do both the mafia and the werewolves have their own factional night kill in this set up?

Yep, they do.

 

[Wam]

I try to have a nice quiet dinner and it all blows up.

I was nominated by two different forums for the champs yall gotta give me at least SOME credit right

Havent we all? /s

 

[Rhand]

his claimed read on you literally doesn't matter when he's open buddying you by play

True. But would I keep on trying to buddy him when it clearly has no effect?

And the spicy route now: why are you so hung up on me / Wiisp maybe doing that but ignoring the whole Swiss / Gorf thing?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

bruh you didn’t even know what a commuter was

i had never heard of the term “commuter,” but i do know what that role is. cant think of the name that i know it as but its probably been several years since ive seen it

I was nominated by two different forums for the champs yall gotta give me at least SOME credit right

yea but i made it to the finals

 

[ExLight]

you understand there are 4 separate possible wincons in this game right? and that they each have a different calculus in wiisp's claimed position?

I don’t count traitor as their own wincon since it’s just Wolf/Mafia but sure?
I don’t really follow what you mean by the calculus part. I’m aware some are more/less interested in that claim, is that what you mean?

 

[Wam]

Missed that.

Still Chop Chop

Does night kill in the above mean every night?

 

[Eido]

Yo this is challenging. I don't think we're looking at Scum Wiisp here. How does scum claiming cop right bring an advantage to his team? A fake cop claim means the real cop now knows who he is, and already gets a head start building connections, right? The real cop wouldn't even have to target Scum Wiisp anymore because they have the free guilty. All they have to do is flip and Wiisp dies. It's simpler logic for me to assume Wiisp is telling the truth.

If the player numbers were tighter and Scum were inching closer to the win, I could see a strat that involved coming out as the cop and forcing some sort of do-or-die situation for Town, but it doesn't feel like that's what's happening right now.

What do people think?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Where was this confirmed?

good ****ing luck trying to confirm it, cant even get decent sample pms. im making an assumption because ive never played a multiball without two factional nks

 

[ExLight]

yea but i made it to the finals

well my friend won the finals ùwú

 

[Wam]

Anything is possible I played a game where a town member successfully false claimed cop in a game with a cop. Kept the cop alive much longer.

But balance of probabilities in my opinion is

Scarlet truthful claim 90%
Wiisp 75%

 

[ExLight]

Missed that.

Still Chop Chop

Does night kill in the above mean every night?

why wouldn’t they both shoot every night?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

True. But would I keep on trying to buddy him when it clearly has no effect?

And the spicy route now: why are you so hung up on me / Wiisp maybe doing that but ignoring the whole Swiss / Gorf thing?

what is it with you and wiisp constantly misrepresenting me to try to corner me?

I'm not "hung up" on you two, I'm more suspicious of you two than gorf/swiss because wiisp has been overtly scummy by play all game and you've been open buddying him which will obviously draw my attention when I'm suss of wiisp. that's not being hung up as you'd so shadily like to characterize it, it's called voicing my concerns to the rest of the town

I'm happy to discuss the possibility of swiss/gorf, that's a ****ing terrifying scum team to me and they absolutely have the skill to snow me

re: you continuing to buddy, that's the whole point of an all in gambit bro come on, and whether or not it "has an effect" still remains to be seen, weirdly fatalistic of you to say that

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I don’t count traitor as their own wincon since it’s just Wolf/Mafia but sure?

this is a bad, bad mistake

traitor can win with EITHER faction, and has incentive to increase both team's EV

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

wereworld and mafia mates have mutually exclusive wincons and gain very little from baiting a claim that could investigate the other faction

 

[ExLight]

I'm happy to discuss the possibility of swiss/gorf, that's a ****ing terrifying scum team to me and they absolutely have the skill to snow me

I kinda hate this “oh they’re terrifying as scum so I’d rather not even think about it”

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Yo this is challenging. I don't think we're looking at Scum Wiisp here. How does scum claiming cop right bring an advantage to his team? A fake cop claim means the real cop now knows who he is, and already gets a head start building connections, right? The real cop wouldn't even have to target Scum Wiisp anymore because they have the free guilty. All they have to do is flip and Wiisp dies. It's simpler logic for me to assume Wiisp is telling the truth.

If the player numbers were tighter and Scum were inching closer to the win, I could see a strat that involved coming out as the cop and forcing some sort of do-or-die situation for Town, but it doesn't feel like that's what's happening right now.

What do people think?

the problem with wifom is that we can come up with so many interweaving angles and possibilities. the mere fact that scum!wiisp lives past toDay matters a lot, especially if hes a pr and its not godfather (dont think its unlikely but dont think its likely either). and wiisp confirmed thinking that he needed to claim to save his ass, it wasnt too early in the Day in his head. he thought it was him or swiss

 

[ExLight]

this is a bad, bad mistake

traitor can win with EITHER faction, and has incentive to increase both team's EV

they have the incentive of making one team die so they have better odds of not getting shot in the face lol

 

[Detective Mao]

Yo this is challenging. I don't think we're looking at Scum Wiisp here. How does scum claiming cop right bring an advantage to his team? A fake cop claim means the real cop now knows who he is, and already gets a head start building connections, right? The real cop wouldn't even have to target Scum Wiisp anymore because they have the free guilty. All they have to do is flip and Wiisp dies. It's simpler logic for me to assume Wiisp is telling the truth.

If the player numbers were tighter and Scum were inching closer to the win, I could see a strat that involved coming out as the cop and forcing some sort of do-or-die situation for Town, but it doesn't feel like that's what's happening right now.

What do people think?

Haven't you been reading? There are a lot of advantages to Scum Wiisp claiming here, even if only just for surviving another day. I understand that you're a new player, if I recall correctly, but we've stated a lot of the reasons already. Don't take everything at face-value.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

good ****ing luck trying to confirm it, cant even get decent sample pms. im making an assumption because ive never played a multiball without two factional nks

it was confirmed pre game thread, see my #771

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

they have the incentive of making one team die so they have better odds of not getting shot in the face lol

this is literally wrong

 

[ExLight]

wereworld and mafia mates have mutually exclusive wincons and gain very little from baiting a claim that could investigate the other faction

I agree with that yea

 

[ExLight]

this is literally wrong

it isn’t though? if 2 scum night kills happen every night the traitor is more likely to get shot and not win with any of them. if there’s only one team around the traitor can more easily communicate with the remaining team and is less likely to get shot

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I kinda hate this “oh they’re terrifying as scum so I’d rather not even think about it”

excuse me? where did I say I'd rather not think about it? I literally said it's worth discussing

 

[ExLight]

I can literally do the traitor math to prove my point ùmú

 

[ExLight]

excuse me? where did I say I'd rather not think about it? I literally said it's worth discussing

then why aren’t we

 

[Rhand]

what is it with you and wiisp constantly misrepresenting me to try to corner me?

I'm not "hung up" on you two, I'm more suspicious of you two than gorf/swiss because wiisp has been overtly scummy by play all game and you've been open buddying him which will obviously draw my attention when I'm suss of wiisp. that's not being hung up as you'd so shadily like to characterize it, it's called voicing my concerns to the rest of the town

I'm happy to discuss the possibility of swiss/gorf, that's a ****ing terrifying scum team to me and they absolutely have the skill to snow me

re: you continuing to buddy, that's the whole point of an all in gambit bro come on, and whether or not it "has an effect" still remains to be seen, weirdly fatalistic of you to say that

This answer makes me feel better about FrozenFlame. I disagree bigtime on his Wiisp read, but since many people had it I guess I have to accept that he did come across as scummy for people that don’t know him.

I am not talking about a team there by the way, I don’t think they are. I think Swiss has pocketed Gorf.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

it isn’t though? if 2 scum night kills happen every night the traitor is more likely to get shot and not win with any of them. if there’s only one team around the traitor can more easily communicate with the remaining team and is less likely to get shot

you very clearly do not understand how to maximize your chances of winning as traitor lmao

keep both teams alive as long as possible is +EV for traitor, it doesn't matter if the traitor dies early, they're the weakest scum role and they win even if they die as long as either scum team wins

 

[ExLight]

keep both teams alive as long as possible is +EV for traitor, it doesn't matter if the traitor dies early, they're the weakest scum role and they win even if they die as long as either scum team wins

why would they win if they’re dead? lol

 

[ExLight]

Chop Chop can the traitor win even if they die?

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

do you not understand how.... the game of mafia works?

town players win with town even if they die as long as town win con is satisfied, mafia mates win with their living mates even if they die as long as mafia achieves wincon, why would that be any different for a traitor that wins if either mafia or WW wincon is satisfied?