Zombie Lucille Ball
Smash Master
lol what are you talking about Cort doesn't even play Marth seriously.
M2K didn't play Ken at Evo so why bring it up.
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m2k's Marth?
- Thread starter Nintendo_lord
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P.c. Chris
Smash Lord
Ken deserves the title "king of smash" he dominated for so long but then people eventually caught up, Me, KDJ, M2K all started to beat ken. I have nothing but respect for ken but eventually people caught up to him. M2k is the better player now there should be no argument for it.
Cort
Apple Head
I'm not really sure if RisingForce is serious or not, considering half his comments were completely unnecessary. I made up my own edge gaurds with Marth and I'm pretty sure I was the first one to start gimping spacies up b's with reverse dolphin slash, while Ken was still waiting on the stage and dtilting =P
And M2K stole my stuff and he would yell "CORTTTTT!" whenever he did my stuff.
and uh yeah, I don't even use Marth in tourny except vs spacies/Falcon >_>
M2K has inspired my Marth moreso than any other Marth player, he has perfected gimps and chain grabs, has beautiful fluid movement and relies on option covering strategies that are fun and work. I have never admired Ken's Marth the same way.
And M2K stole my stuff and he would yell "CORTTTTT!" whenever he did my stuff.
and uh yeah, I don't even use Marth in tourny except vs spacies/Falcon >_>
M2K has inspired my Marth moreso than any other Marth player, he has perfected gimps and chain grabs, has beautiful fluid movement and relies on option covering strategies that are fun and work. I have never admired Ken's Marth the same way.
Cort
Apple Head
He used it on stage, a lot. Something I never do.
edit// the only thing I've stolen from Ken is CCing people's lying-on-the-floor-get-up-attacks because it pushes you into tipper range and lets you fsmash them before they recover.
Oh snap. I'm a thief.
edit// the only thing I've stolen from Ken is CCing people's lying-on-the-floor-get-up-attacks because it pushes you into tipper range and lets you fsmash them before they recover.
Oh snap. I'm a thief.
memphischains
Smash hhkj'
At this point what people "created" as tactics or styles is irrelevant. The best marth players play the best style suited for them no matter who thought or used/tried the idea first.
Beside the fact that a new game is out, tactics for each character (with a strong emphasis on marth) has been exhausted. This argument is so obscene, the only way to really judge at this point is a match. Thats just my opinion however. You can look back to tournaments, yeah, but thats not who the player is now. I have been constantly think about this for some reason, and am at a lost. I do feel this argument is stupid without a set of matches.
If you want to look at who made what when and how people use it and such, then almost every marth player has a ken / m2k (and apparently cort) cloned playing style.
I would like to see a match. At this point, I would even pay / travel to watch it.
Beside the fact that a new game is out, tactics for each character (with a strong emphasis on marth) has been exhausted. This argument is so obscene, the only way to really judge at this point is a match. Thats just my opinion however. You can look back to tournaments, yeah, but thats not who the player is now. I have been constantly think about this for some reason, and am at a lost. I do feel this argument is stupid without a set of matches.
If you want to look at who made what when and how people use it and such, then almost every marth player has a ken / m2k (and apparently cort) cloned playing style.
I would like to see a match. At this point, I would even pay / travel to watch it.
slikvik
Smash Master
You should talk to manacloud about OC3 vids. He has plenty of footage of m2k ****** ken. Theyre like 30bux or some other ridiculous price.
Figure I owe at least as much as to clarify my last post a bit. Getting this out of the way first; I never once said in there that I believe Ken is better than Mew2king right now. No matter what one's justification is, the realistic, objective truth is that Mew2king is at the pinnacle of today's best-performing and most consistent melee players. There isn't a case I could ever make, nor would I try to make, stating that Ken is currently better than Mew2king right now.
Where my last post might become lost in translation is in my attempt to define a "Best" of melee. I make no case for Ken being better right now, because there isn't nearly enough up-to-date results or high placings from Ken, let alone tourney results from him at all, to say he's currently still on-par with m2k. I suppose what my statement was trying to defend was just how a "Best" can be defined. What I was defending was Ken's three-year streak of unarguable dominance, with no clear or consistent challengers to him at all until near the end of '06. So many people were just writing off Ken's smash career as "in the past", while stating that because Mew2king's the best now, he's by elementary logic the best smasher to ever play, because he's at the top of the game NOW.
Whether or not anyone cares to admit it, beit to themselves or to others, Ken invented Marth. He shaped the entire metagame with his dominance, and not only inspired every single good player to get better, but also gave them all one hell of a head start in adaptation and innovation. Players who developed tactics and techniques later on were able to do so largely in part because of Ken's establishment of Marth and its corresponding techs/matchups/strategies/etc. It's the same reason so many great players keep popping up out of nowhere: they've got the entirety of Melee's potential handed to them on a silver platter. Ken built that **** from the ground up, and held his dominance over all of us for years.
In summation: Mew2king is easily the best right now, no question. But Ken is the best to have ever played, and we wouldn't be where we are right now in melee's metagame were it not for him and his influences.
King Out
Where my last post might become lost in translation is in my attempt to define a "Best" of melee. I make no case for Ken being better right now, because there isn't nearly enough up-to-date results or high placings from Ken, let alone tourney results from him at all, to say he's currently still on-par with m2k. I suppose what my statement was trying to defend was just how a "Best" can be defined. What I was defending was Ken's three-year streak of unarguable dominance, with no clear or consistent challengers to him at all until near the end of '06. So many people were just writing off Ken's smash career as "in the past", while stating that because Mew2king's the best now, he's by elementary logic the best smasher to ever play, because he's at the top of the game NOW.
Whether or not anyone cares to admit it, beit to themselves or to others, Ken invented Marth. He shaped the entire metagame with his dominance, and not only inspired every single good player to get better, but also gave them all one hell of a head start in adaptation and innovation. Players who developed tactics and techniques later on were able to do so largely in part because of Ken's establishment of Marth and its corresponding techs/matchups/strategies/etc. It's the same reason so many great players keep popping up out of nowhere: they've got the entirety of Melee's potential handed to them on a silver platter. Ken built that **** from the ground up, and held his dominance over all of us for years.
In summation: Mew2king is easily the best right now, no question. But Ken is the best to have ever played, and we wouldn't be where we are right now in melee's metagame were it not for him and his influences.
King Out
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KIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIINNGGG!!!
You should read the Marth threads I made so we can have more fun debates.
^_^
You should read the Marth threads I made so we can have more fun debates.
^_^
Cort
Apple Head
I can't really agree with you on any of the points you made aside from a few menial ones. Ken did not "invent Marth" by any means really, Ken happened to be a player ahead of his time because of how intelligently he played (the only other player to compare for his time was probably Azen, who still managed to take set victories from him, but no one else was as good as these two).
I think to actually invent a character, one would have to push the game to it's limits from a [practical] technical standpoint and use strategy that covers and limits options on top of already being capable of playing 'smart', and I feel like Ken has -only- done the latter of the two and on top of it, it's not entirely clear as to 'how to play smart' as it is to just have the raw natural talent and experience required to do so.
So in a sense, his general play style in terms of how smart one has to play was the only foundation he laid down, and even then I believe Azen was just as smart for their times. However, I feel like that foundation is really hard (or impossible) to comprehend...
But what has he actually done for the Marth character? shffl neutral air into ground dodge? Poorly executed chain grabs? Counter a lot vs Falcos? Down throw and hope you tech every time? I love his crouch cancelling get up attacks since I think it's brilliant, but the strategy flops if someone simply doesn't get up attack heh >_>
If you look at Marths nowadays nothing really comes close to the brilliant strategy that M2K displays while playing. I think he's basically pushed the character to the near limits of the human hands/brain.
I'm gonna take a stab and ask you this: Do you think you're better than Mango as the 'best Jigglypuff' from your same definition as Ken being the overall best Marth? Just curious, cause again I'd disagree.
hornysax
Smash Cadet
Ken is by far the better melee player, current or past.
The main arguments for m2k being better is because of his recent success, including wins over Ken, recent tournament wins, his innovative Marth play contributing to the Marth meta game, and his obvious precise technical play. He's a great player in his own right, but 2nd best to Ken.
As much as we like to think that beating Ken makes m2k the best, it simply doesn't. Stylistically being better to the best player at any given time, by inappropriate subjective metrics, does not make someone the best player. This is like saying Kobe Bryant is a better player than Michael Jordan, just because Kobe Bryant scored 84 points in a game once. Scoring 84 points in a game is an arbitrary metric of who is better in basketball, much like m2k beating Ken in melee is an arbitrary metric of who is better. While Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson score lots of points, Michael Jordan simply wins games, just as Ken simply wins tournaments. As much as m2k would like to make excuses about why he lost at Evo World, he ultimately lost. I only bring this up because it exemplifies a small but enormously important difference between these two players. Kobe Bryant makes excuses about why he loses games, blaming his weaker support players. Jordan doesn't make excuses, he just wins and wins and wins. Perhaps its his personal accountability in all situations that makes him so resilient. He doesn't concede control over the situation ever.
Comparatively, Ken has won many more tournments, tournament after tournment for years. Given nothing to imitate, Ken was the quickest to learn his way to the top, the quickest to invent himself competitively and stylistically, achieved the greatest initial success of any player, and maintained his success for longer than anyone else. His results speak for themselves. If Ken and m2k were in the professional world seeking jobs from Nintendo as Professional Smash players, Ken would have a large edge over m2k because of his wealth of tourmament results, Smash-related experience, accolades, and accomplishments. Why is this so important? Because this is precisely how a capitalist society differentiates the good from the great, whether it be academically, professionally, recreationally, or in Smash Bros Melee. Ken would get the job.
And finally, being such an erudite enthusiast of statistics, I would think m2k would understand that his self-assessment of himself as the better player from his smaller, biased statistical sampling of only the most recent games versus Ken or most recent tournament data would yield a less accurate result. In statistics, the smaller sample data increases its chance of vulnerability to Statistical Significance and Selection Bias, and is clearly a byproduct of inductive inference by m2k and m2k fans. Why would we discount all the times Ken has beaten m2k in their long history, as well as all the tournaments Ken has won continuously throughout the years? Because we have decided that we are trying to inductively isolate the best melee player within the last month, knowing Ken is retired previously? How completely skewed is that from a statistics and logical (two things m2k prides himself on) standpoint?
Is Clyde Drexler a better basketball player than Michael Jordan? No, right? Well, what about on June 6, 1992?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE5DB1E3CF935A35755C0A964958260
The main arguments for m2k being better is because of his recent success, including wins over Ken, recent tournament wins, his innovative Marth play contributing to the Marth meta game, and his obvious precise technical play. He's a great player in his own right, but 2nd best to Ken.
As much as we like to think that beating Ken makes m2k the best, it simply doesn't. Stylistically being better to the best player at any given time, by inappropriate subjective metrics, does not make someone the best player. This is like saying Kobe Bryant is a better player than Michael Jordan, just because Kobe Bryant scored 84 points in a game once. Scoring 84 points in a game is an arbitrary metric of who is better in basketball, much like m2k beating Ken in melee is an arbitrary metric of who is better. While Kobe Bryant or Allen Iverson score lots of points, Michael Jordan simply wins games, just as Ken simply wins tournaments. As much as m2k would like to make excuses about why he lost at Evo World, he ultimately lost. I only bring this up because it exemplifies a small but enormously important difference between these two players. Kobe Bryant makes excuses about why he loses games, blaming his weaker support players. Jordan doesn't make excuses, he just wins and wins and wins. Perhaps its his personal accountability in all situations that makes him so resilient. He doesn't concede control over the situation ever.
Comparatively, Ken has won many more tournments, tournament after tournment for years. Given nothing to imitate, Ken was the quickest to learn his way to the top, the quickest to invent himself competitively and stylistically, achieved the greatest initial success of any player, and maintained his success for longer than anyone else. His results speak for themselves. If Ken and m2k were in the professional world seeking jobs from Nintendo as Professional Smash players, Ken would have a large edge over m2k because of his wealth of tourmament results, Smash-related experience, accolades, and accomplishments. Why is this so important? Because this is precisely how a capitalist society differentiates the good from the great, whether it be academically, professionally, recreationally, or in Smash Bros Melee. Ken would get the job.
And finally, being such an erudite enthusiast of statistics, I would think m2k would understand that his self-assessment of himself as the better player from his smaller, biased statistical sampling of only the most recent games versus Ken or most recent tournament data would yield a less accurate result. In statistics, the smaller sample data increases its chance of vulnerability to Statistical Significance and Selection Bias, and is clearly a byproduct of inductive inference by m2k and m2k fans. Why would we discount all the times Ken has beaten m2k in their long history, as well as all the tournaments Ken has won continuously throughout the years? Because we have decided that we are trying to inductively isolate the best melee player within the last month, knowing Ken is retired previously? How completely skewed is that from a statistics and logical (two things m2k prides himself on) standpoint?
Is Clyde Drexler a better basketball player than Michael Jordan? No, right? Well, what about on June 6, 1992?
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9E0CE5DB1E3CF935A35755C0A964958260
Ciel~Image
Smash Apprentice
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- 91
hornysax are you a robot y/n
slikvik
Smash Master
Valdens
Smash Ace
Lol @ how you have to make a personal attack to try and prove your point better.
Cort
Apple Head
Lol @ people that can't distinguish between a personal attack and an attempt to prove a point.
You're an idiot.
D
Deleted member
Guest
ken is better at drawing, pokemon, traveling, and Marth's Dancing Blade. m2k is better at marth, melee, and not being related to manacloud. the end.
edit:
edit:
you're ********.
Lord Knight
Smash Lord
Everyone in this thread should go to m2k's house and play him for 10 hours straight. Then you'll change your mind (or be like Cort and go for a week).
No one makes me want to play melee more than him.
No one makes me want to play melee more than him.
hornysax
Smash Cadet
Change our mind about what? About him being the best at melee? About you liking him the most? About who motivates you to play melee more?
I don't want you guys to misunderstand me. I have not insulted m2k in any way. Being the 2nd best in the world at anything is a great honor, but Ken is simply better than him at melee.
Another great example of a technical player who is 2nd best is Bombsoldier. I've seen the "best falco" threads. Everyone wanted this kid to be the best, but in the end, it's PC Chris' Falco that wins tournaments. Would that change your mind even if BS beat PC tomorrow in a money match?
Bombsolder is neither overly technical for a Falco player nor disputed as the best Falco. PC mostly plays Fox these days. If you wanted to give an example of technical players, you should've used DaShizWiz.
Lord Knight
Smash Lord
Lol hornysax you don't know what you're talking about.
Good summary.Mow said:
xRisingForce
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2007
- Messages
- 46
Having a 5,000+ post count or having a name in special colors doesn't give you the right to talk down to people just because they don't frequent Smash Boards 24/7 or because they refrain from posting. Get off your high horses and stop trying to be the know-it-all cocky *******s that you're coming off as. That's not directed at Cort, but anyone that fits the glove. You all should be more like Brookman.
0:14. Never, huh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5y0-W9YVo
1:28. <--?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQshliimlI&feature=related
1:30. ???
Never's a bit exaggerative, isn't it?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQshliimlI&feature=related
0:45. Ken's neutral a ledge guard against Fox illusion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTtplb1xWs&feature=related
0:20 - 0:24. Ken's d. tilt edge guard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payLjoOp8rU&feature=related
0:00 - 0:08. Ken's space animal chain grab?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payLjoOp8rU&feature=related
0:55. Drop back air, anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payLjoOp8rU&feature=related
1:03. Short hop double f. air.
This is silly. I've been watching your videos for less than half an hour and it's more obvious than elementary arithmetic problems that your Marth is saturated with Ken's influence.
This leaves only his technical aspects questioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4YfJ0DFeoI
0:36. Stage ****.
Did you somehow MISS this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5y0-W9YVo
0:14. Never, huh?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Kr5y0-W9YVo
1:28. <--?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQshliimlI&feature=related
1:30. ???
Never's a bit exaggerative, isn't it?
Ugh. I love how you have to use sarcasm to sell your arguments.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WIQshliimlI&feature=related
0:45. Ken's neutral a ledge guard against Fox illusion?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8pTtplb1xWs&feature=related
0:20 - 0:24. Ken's d. tilt edge guard?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payLjoOp8rU&feature=related
0:00 - 0:08. Ken's space animal chain grab?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payLjoOp8rU&feature=related
0:55. Drop back air, anyone?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=payLjoOp8rU&feature=related
1:03. Short hop double f. air.
This is silly. I've been watching your videos for less than half an hour and it's more obvious than elementary arithmetic problems that your Marth is saturated with Ken's influence.
Maybe that's because d. tilting space animal recoveries is better, because the success of your counter strategy rides on your opponent's inability to sweetspot, whereas Ken's edge guard pokes them before they can grab the ledge. If your opponent sweetspots, like in the match between you vs. PC Chris on Pokémon Stadium, you get punished.
What exactly is "your stuff"? Aside from that counter ledge guard, I don't see you doing anything original.
Wrong. Firstly, I disagree with your entire premise of what inventing a character is supposed to mean. The King, by inventing a character, meant inventing their meta-game, which is essentially the same concept. Inventing something entails a level of originality, creativity, insight. Pushing a character to his/her technical limit requires none of those- just an action replay. Inventing a character and pushing a character to his/her limits aren't even remotely related; I'm not sure where your argument is supposed to stem from.
Again, if you're saying he's intelligent, then it's his intelligence that led to his pioneering of all his contributions to Marth's and Melee's meta-game. I don't see how pinpointing the factor behind his pioneering dilutes his impact on Marth's meta-game at all. Is his intelligence supposed to function as a valid argument? If anything, stating his intelligence is just giving him praise.
This leaves only his technical aspects questioned.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K4YfJ0DFeoI
0:36. Stage ****.
Does M2K pay you to suck his ****? And I'm being completely serious- I don't see how any of your arguments hold any water. You state claim after claim while providing neither backing nor reinforcement.
I love mew2king's marth, but first I loved ken's and azen's!!!
Zombie Lucille Ball
Smash Master
lol QDVS ftw.
I really don't see how one can ignore Ken's contribution to the game (not necessarily the METAgame), it's pretty obvious when you look at the history. People didn't even take Marth seriously until some random kid came and won a tournament with him.
But no one can underestimate M2K's contribution to the METAgame either. Ever since he ***** Cataclysm 3 he's forced pretty much everyone in the community to push the limits.
edit: but obviously KDJ is better than both of them
I really don't see how one can ignore Ken's contribution to the game (not necessarily the METAgame), it's pretty obvious when you look at the history. People didn't even take Marth seriously until some random kid came and won a tournament with him.
But no one can underestimate M2K's contribution to the METAgame either. Ever since he ***** Cataclysm 3 he's forced pretty much everyone in the community to push the limits.
edit: but obviously KDJ is better than both of them
Mizar
Smash Ace
I always liked how germ played his link. Also, when.... wait a sec, oh fack, wrong thread.
No srsly, stop dikcing around on this subject. It's not like it makes a difference.
No srsly, stop dikcing around on this subject. It's not like it makes a difference.
slikvik
Smash Master
lol youtube scrubs...
D
Deleted member
Guest
You cheating *****.I love mew2king's marth, but first I loved ken's and azen's!!!
rising, the wall of text is kinda pathetic honestly. You really went out of your way to watch several videos of a player who has been playing for YEARS simply to refute a trivial point, but I have to ask. Why? Because his marth did something Ken's marth once did in 2005?
Are you kidding? So you are stating that Cort, edguarding with downtilt, took this directly from Ken, rather than literally ANY MARTH PLAYER IN THE WORLD EVER. This is first assuming that a player who goes decently even with PC Chris does not have the intestinal fortitude to conjure up such a creative and unique edgeguard himself.
**** d. tilt. wait, Ken's d. tilt. my bad. Everything you listed is basic marth material, not because ken found it, but because it's standard.
Oh and for the record, my friend at home got Melee the first day it was available in Japanese way back in fall 2001. Before the US released. He found Marth's CG on Fox after 15 minutes. It's not Ken's CG.
P.c. Chris
Smash Lord
At MLG Dallas Ken used counter in the middle of the stage vs my falco's lasers (btw it was M2K who told ken to do this and ken listened). That's what cort is talking about he doesn't use counter in the middle of the stage against spammy falcos or raging offense cort just PS's everything LOL. on the otherhand cort uses counter at the edges to edge guard fox and falco because it's so much harder to walltech so its more reliable than fsmash dtilt ect. It puts them in an easssy spot for a reverse up b which is basically guranteed death at any %. Cort was the first one to be doing this, i know m2k has always done the counter and regular fair edgeguard but to my knowledge cort's the first to do the reverse dolphin slash edgeguard.
Since when also is dtilt edge guard ken's invention LOL? im pretty sure 6 years ago on hyrule with items on i was doing dtilt edge guards with marth >_>
a lot of these things aren't specific thing ken has made popular like reverse dolphin slash, ken combo ect. a lot of them are general marth things that everyone uses even b4 ken "changed marth" its like me making an argument for azen. "YEAH CORT I SEE U STOLE THAT AZEN FSMASH EDGEGUARD LOL THEIF"
Aesir
Smash Master
This was clearly directed at cort. >_>
Grow up corts right you're wrong.
takeurlife2
Smash Ace
m2k mains DDD now btw guys
Cort
Apple Head
Okay so, I'm almost positive that RisingForce is actually a troll and he's hiding it pretty well.
Apparently Ken invented every Marth aerial and b move >_<
Also, I was talking about countering on the stage vs PC's Falco at MLG Dallas. Though, apparently using it anywhere else as a basic edge gaurd makes your Marth completely influenced by Ken.
Oh and apparently, M2K told Ken to do that because at the time, he and PC weren't exactly friends. Later on Ken denied that M2K told him and said he thought of it.
Some more edits// RisingForce, if you're going to rely on using my post count and name color as the basis and start of your argument, I donno what to tell you really. You have very uneducated understandings of what strategy actually is in Melee and to you it seems like all Melee is is forward airs, back airs, counters, etc.
Then... you go about explaining how I use chain grabs, the down tilt, counter, sh double fairs, and give Ken all the credit for using Marth's aerials/other moves by documenting them in my own videos. Which is really funny to be honest, and it just further shows that you have very little understanding as to what I initially posted.
Oh so dtilting space animals recoveries is smarter? I never knew that, thanks! You know, for trying to tell me that my Marth is saturated by Ken's influence and then going on to tell me how to play Marth, you sure know your stuff. Seriously, this isn't sarcastic at all. Honestly.
And M2K's my friend. You know, your post was sort of 'an argument' (despite it not really being one) up until you just blatantly flamed me.
Apparently Ken invented every Marth aerial and b move >_<
Also, I was talking about countering on the stage vs PC's Falco at MLG Dallas. Though, apparently using it anywhere else as a basic edge gaurd makes your Marth completely influenced by Ken.
Oh and apparently, M2K told Ken to do that because at the time, he and PC weren't exactly friends. Later on Ken denied that M2K told him and said he thought of it.
Some more edits// RisingForce, if you're going to rely on using my post count and name color as the basis and start of your argument, I donno what to tell you really. You have very uneducated understandings of what strategy actually is in Melee and to you it seems like all Melee is is forward airs, back airs, counters, etc.
Then... you go about explaining how I use chain grabs, the down tilt, counter, sh double fairs, and give Ken all the credit for using Marth's aerials/other moves by documenting them in my own videos. Which is really funny to be honest, and it just further shows that you have very little understanding as to what I initially posted.
Oh so dtilting space animals recoveries is smarter? I never knew that, thanks! You know, for trying to tell me that my Marth is saturated by Ken's influence and then going on to tell me how to play Marth, you sure know your stuff. Seriously, this isn't sarcastic at all. Honestly.
And M2K's my friend. You know, your post was sort of 'an argument' (despite it not really being one) up until you just blatantly flamed me.
Zombie Lucille Ball
Smash Master
was that after PC ***** the **** out of M2K @ FC6?
Azen Zagenite
Smash Champion
=^_^=
I invented forward smash with every character.
I invented forward smash with every character.
xRisingForce
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 31, 2007
- Messages
- 46
Yeah seriously. If you dig on up some of the history here at Smash Boards, you can read Ken's threads dated back to when he won Tournament Go 3. He still had his sort of modest cockiness, but none of the mods here even considered placing Marth in even the top tier. Look at some of the pre-Ken tier lists, if you can find them.
Ken's actually asked if Marth was top tier, or if HE was top tier. Cocky *******, haha.
VulgarHandGestures
Smash Journeyman
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2008
- Messages
- 326
the funniest thing about this thread is the way azen keeps popping in every ten pages or so to make a cheeky comment and then disappears.
Btw Just to make this Clear, M2k had never given me any Marth tips for MLG Dallas and if he did I have never listened to him. I don't know what M2king has told you, but I'll straight out say it , " he did not tell me anything about counter for Dallas nor did I even have a conversation with him at Dallas." Next time he'll tell you, Yea I also told Ken to counter pick on mute city. I already told you PC during our matches at Dallas, That I came prepared that day.If it's anything it's M2king who studies my video's online and even at tournaments, it's him who stares at the matches that I'm playing in. I don't think he can deny that.
If you listen to some of wife's commentary in the pc vs ken mlg ny sets, he describes 2 different types of play, "the inventor" and the "cameleon". Wife explains more in details if you want to listen in the videos.
There are people who base their game play and remember's exact combos to do exactly what %'s and there are those who just play and base their moves on last second thoughts. I've had convo's with m2king like after I played him during orlando and he said
M2k- whoa, I've never seen that before, Dash attack into grab back throw foward smash
Ken- oh I dunno, I just do whatever while playing, I dont remember set up combo's or anything
M2k- Yea but you could have nair, double Fairs, dairs etc etc.
Ken- ...... ???????? ok...
---end of convo-
anyways, If you looked at 2007, I've been out of the scene for who knows long. After MLG took smash off it's main tour, I decided to concentraite on my actually life and my career. And **** even my friends outside of smash. "Yes, I do have friends outside of this game." So excuse me for trying to get ahead in life. Smash had consumed my life for more than 4 years. People can say " oh that's a Major John " but look, I didnt even go to tournaments who were less than 15 minutes away from me. If you think people have caught up to my skill level, then you're right, there are plenty of talented players out there, but If you think I don't have the ability to compete with them , then you're wrong. Azen comes in time to time and just wins, he was a talented player from the beginning.
If I wanted to devote my life to smash like I used to and decided to go to tournaments I'd fall in the top 5. Not saying that I'd win, but I'd definately win/lose depending on how my day was. Think about it, I didnt even go to tournaments where Isai went to, and he was forced to team with someone else? Isai and I did pretty well in teams I'd say.
It's good that you're bringing up melee, but like King said, No one has had the consistancy of tournament placings that I've ever had nor the prize money that came with it. However, I'm talking about Brawl here, and since I'm graduating from college I might just have some spare time to travel once again.
Ken Out-
chillindude829
Smash Master
guys lets just stop arguing and agree that ken, m2k, azen and i are the 4 greatest players of all time >_>
MyRevenge.
Smash Journeyman
Amen to that chillin :D
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