M2K stuff about Marth (big update first post)

[BentoBox]

You guys are also forgetting that M2K takes smash bros very seriously. Do you know why he's so knowledgable about pretty much every aspect of melee? It's because he actually studied all of those things himself and was kind enough to relay his knowledge to you. He's respected because of how hard he works, not just because he's good (though that helps). Okay, so now he's got to master a new game, but he's still that devoted analyzer that he was in melee and still deserves our respect.

The fact is that he's really hoping that someone can come up with tangible evidence that he's wrong. He simply is tired of hearing this blind optimism "new techniques will be discovered" and wants cold hard evidence. And he's actively looking for that evidence too, so stop freakin' flaming him.

Nobody can prove he's wrong because you can't rush 5 years + he was pro in melee = you'll run around in circles if he asked you to?

I don't let somebody else set my own standards.

 

[mario-man]

Nobody can prove he's wrong because you can't rush 5 years + he was pro in melee = you'll run around in circles if he asked you to?

I don't let somebody else set my own standards.

We're not doing everything he says randomly for no reason, we are just saying that his statements deserve more respect than they have been getting, and he should also be considered one of the most trustworthy info collector for Brawl out there RIGHT NOW because of his history of in depth study and research.

 

[User33]

Mew2King, you're completley overreacting over a problem that isn't even confirmed. We don't even know if human players can do this. We aren't playing Brawl to even a little bit of potential. And already, you're freaking out. Calm down, get somebody to test that this is an ACTUAL PROBLEM, and then get upset. For the record, Brawl looks like it has plenty of combo oppurtunites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCdRJev9dRY

And any other Brawl video by GAWES shows how much potential this has.

 

[Ryan-K]

Except he isn't making factual statements he's just complaining about how he thinks the game is campy when in fact based off of playing and hearing the opinions of people I actually trust as opposed to someone who is good in melee that doesn't seem to be the case.

 

[mario-man]

Now see that's all we've wanted all night^^ to be proven wrong with solid evidence^^

I now stand corrected GLADLY

That vid seems to show alot of potential in the Brawl scene

 

[BentoBox]

We're not doing everything he says randomly for no reason, we are just saying that his statements deserve more respect than they have been getting, and he should also be considered one of the most trustworthy info collector for Brawl out there RIGHT NOW because of his history of in depth study and research.

1rst.


2nd.

WE GOT THE POINT. Brawl is slower, brawl is more intuitive. Now can we PLEASE move on? You don't seem to realise how stupidly annoying all this needless bickering is really getting. Just when will it stop may I ask you? (bold for emphasis) 5 years from now when the metagame will have reached its peak? Sorry but I do not have the patience for that. Yes, he does not want Brawl to be bad, like anyone else. But -bad- is relative, and he seems pretty insistent on despising brawl the way it currently is. Melee's still right around the corner. You can either participate in unravelling SSBB's potential or kindly stfu.

And the next step is?

He's being a negative Nancy no matter how I look at it. Regardless of his status, how should I let his opinions about the game affect me and why exactly would I do so? Depth is relative, you choose to be a tool by conforming your own standards to his.

Now see that's all we've wanted all night^^ to be proven wrong with solid evidence^^

I now stand corrected GLADLY

That vid seems to show alot of potential in the Brawl scene

You didn't even look.

 

[mario-man]

I am NOT conforming my own standards to his, and I never was. I was just making sure to take his oppinion (since it should be respected) and weigh it in with my own, when I was annalyzing Brawl.

However, as might have noticed, I have GLADLY been proven wrong in my assumptions and fears, and I've never been so happy to be wrong!!

 

[TuRk E]

Mew2King, you're completley overreacting over a problem that isn't even confirmed. We don't even know if human players can do this. We aren't playing Brawl to even a little bit of potential. And already, you're freaking out. Calm down, get somebody to test that this is an ACTUAL PROBLEM, and then get upset. For the record, Brawl looks like it has plenty of combo oppurtunites.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCdRJev9dRY

And any other Brawl video by GAWES shows how much potential this has.

Very good set of vids by Gawes.

 

[FalconPunch]

In that vid, I saw a lot of times where Lucas hit Luigi while Luigi was trying to combo. Stun times have been reduced. Along with the fact that everything is so floaty, it does make combos much harder to do simply because of the engine.

 

[User33]

I do know that combos are harder to do, but that doesn't make them impossible like Mew2King is implying. There were plenty in that video, with up to 5 hits.

 

[BentoBox]

In that vid, I saw a lot of times where Lucas hit Luigi while Luigi was trying to combo. Stun times have been reduced. Along with the fact that everything is so floaty, it does make combos much harder to do simply because of the engine.

and?

Spoiler

10chars

 

[Cojiro]

It's harder and therefore takes less skill.

...

 

[Mr.C]

Ive played Brawl and it does have VERY little combo opportunities, although some character can combo but they are 2 hits at the most 3 hits if you DI improperly and are playing a character that can't do anything about combo pressure like Bowser. The game is no where near in-depth as Melee and never will be. Brawl itself limits how far we can take the meta-game...will there be a meta-game? of course and Brawl will still be competitive but it will not be any where near as innovating as Melee is thats for sure. Still that doesn't change the fact Brawl is a very fun game.

If you think about it Melee is at its peak, we aren't going to be finding out anything new and tourneys/matches will all be the same. Thats how Brawl is, they will all be the same a lot quicker than Melee though. Brawl is very limited on movement, combos, control..relys heavily on shield pressuring, spacing and picking characters that can punish baited jumps easily. So all in all Melee is same ole same ole in competitive scenes and Brawl will be same ole same ole very soon because the game limits anything that will break and expand the meta-game as of right now. So it all comes down to playing which game you have more fun playing...pretty much.

 

[BentoBox]

I'll take that same old with more than 4 viable characters any day. That itself is a much more interesting prospect.

And you're still talking out of your buttocks.

 

[User33]

Or it could be, Mr. C, that you don't know how to play the game yet as with everyone else in the world. It is WAY too early to make assumptions

 

[Mr.C]

I'll take that same old with more than 4 viable characters any day. And you're still talking out of your buttocks.

I'll be playing Brawl for the change as well. Change = fun, for me at least.

And I know infinitely more about Melee's meta game than you. That experience of getting so far in the competitive scene gets passed onto the Brawl meta-game. Its not like we are all playing a completely different game. Same game, same concept.. just a different feel. I'm sure you don't understand this because when it comes to playing competitively you have no idea what that means. Mew2King is a skilled Melee player and knows exactly what he is talking about. His knowledge and experience has moved onto playing Brawl as well as all of the other high-level competitive players. Our opinion comparing Brawl to Melee and saying how competitive it will be > yours.

And trust me lol... Brawl will be exactly the same. 3-4 characters will dominate all of the rest. Marth, Sheik/Zelda, TL and a couple others will dominate the competitive scene.

Or it could be, Mr. C, that you don't know how to play the game yet as with everyone else in the world. It is WAY too early to make assumptions

This is no where near the same as the transition of sbb64 to Melee. Melee actually allowed for the transcendence of the meta-game. We were allowed to go further than the prescribed ruleset. The same cannot be said for Brawl. Going from Melee to Brawl is almost the exact same feel competitive wise so we know what we all should be looking for this time around. Except Brawl TOOK OUT things that would allow it to be a better game. Why did Melee take so long to become involved? because we didn't have a huge community filled with highly skilled players. Brawl will be at the top of its meta-game in a year at max.

 

[Aesir]

I'll take that same old with more than 4 viable characters any day. That itself is a much more interesting prospect.

And you're still talking out of your buttocks. Hi I don't know anything about melee's meta game or competitive fighting games in general

You sure don't buddy.

 

[K1T3]

I'll be playing Brawl for the change as well. Change = fun, for me at least.

And I know infinitely more about Melee's meta game than you. That experience of getting so far in the competitive scene gets passed onto the Brawl meta-game. Its not like we are all playing a completely different game. Same game, same concept.. just a different feel. I'm sure you don't understand this because when it comes to playing competitively you have no idea what that means. Mew2King is a skilled Melee player and knows exactly what he is talking about. His knowledge and experience has moved onto playing Brawl as well as all of the other high-level competitive players. Our opinion comparing Brawl to Melee and saying how competitive it will be > yours.

And trust me lol... Brawl will be exactly the same. 3-4 characters will dominate all of the rest. Marth, Sheik/Zelda, TL and a couple others will dominate the competitive scene.



This is no where near the same as the transition of sbb64 to Melee. Melee actually allowed for the transcendence of the meta-game. We were allowed to go further than the prescribed ruleset. The same cannot be said for Brawl. Going from Melee to Brawl is almost the exact same fell after you get use to it except Brawl TOOK out things that would allow it to be a better game. Why did Melee take so long to become involved? because we didn't have a huge community filled with highly skilled players. Brawl will be at the top of its meta-game in a year at max.

Yes =)

But I don't think Sheik/zelda will be top...

 

[Kirby M.D.]

So, the gist of things is thusly:

-M2K is the Smash Machine, but he needs a firmware update for a new and different game
-This means that it is not competitive to most in this thread, which is baffling.
-Combos = skill, which is laughable in pretty much any fighting game com outside of this one
-People get that Brawl is not Melee 2.0, and thats what was really wanted
-Arguing is the preferred form of communication on SWF
-There are very few people defending Brawl, but they are holding their own.

Can we stop flaming each other now?

EDIT: Apparently not, so I'd just like to say that Mr.C and Aesir came off as ***** in those first two posts. Seriously now, aren't we a bit too high in the postcount for e-peen waving and the old "lol i fixed ur post" bit?

 

[Mr.C]

Yes =)

But I don't think Sheik/zelda will be top...

Sheik is still AMAZING lol..she doesn't have the killing potential as she did in Melee but she is VERY safe when approaching with aerials, still has nice tilt juggles and a good pressure game. Shes one of the best approaching characters in Brawl IMO and Zelda is an effing beast lol for real that ho killing people at 80-100% compared to 150-200% and remember when using Sheik/Zelda you aren't forced to only use one of the two...meaning you can play BOTH of them. And both are very very good at what they do. Sheik = easy %'s, Zelda = easy kills.

 

[K1T3]

Sheik is still AMAZING lol..she doesn't have the killing potential as she did in Melee but she is VERY safe when approaching with aerials, still has nice tilt juggles and a good pressure game. Shes one of the best approaching characters in Brawl IMO and Zelda is an effing beast lol for real that ho killing people at 80-100% compared to 150-200% and remember when using Sheik/Zelda you aren't forced to only use one of the two...meaning you can play BOTH of them. And both are very very good at what they do. Sheik = easy %'s, Zelda = easy kills.

I noticed the switching thing would be great for percent to killing. I probably just couldn't tell how good they were since all I've played are ffas =(

Hmm guess I'll try her more thanks for info ^^

 

[BentoBox]

Tool's generic post

I knew you'd wait for someone else to word it all out for you. :>

I'll be playing Brawl for the change as well. Change = fun, for me at least.

And I know infinitely more about Melee's meta game than you. That experience of getting so far in the competitive scene gets passed onto the Brawl meta-game. Its not like we are all playing a completely different game. Same game, same concept.. just a different feel. I'm sure you don't understand this because when it comes to playing competitively you have no idea what that means. Mew2King is a skilled Melee player and knows exactly what he is talking about. His knowledge and experience has moved onto playing Brawl as well as all of the other high-level competitive players. Our opinion comparing Brawl to Melee and saying how competitive it will be > yours.

And that is the problem. You still think that all the knowledge you've acquired gives you much more of an authority when it comes to predicting Brawl's future. But it doesn't. The game has totally changed. Yes, in a sense its not that perfect sequel you were waiting for. But I personally do not give a **** about that. EVERYONE starts back to step one. Hugs already summed it up pretty nicely. It isn't the fact that you consider it undeep that bugs me but rather the fact that you push it off as a bad game and encourage everyone around you to do the same. Brawl's focus gameplay-wise has shifted, if you can't handle it, then go back to Melee. Just quit *****ing because it doesn't get anyone anywhere. And I'll also add that the game won't stop being competitive because M2K quits. With a few veterans quitting and a ****load of new players entering the scene (online will have a tremendous impact), as long as people are willing to put some effort, the scene will never die. In that aspect aswell you think of yourself much too highly.

edit#1434: Intimidation is not your cup of tea, srymuch.

 

[Mr.C]

And that is the problem. You still think that all the knowledge you've acquired gives you much more of an authority when it comes to predicting Brawl's future. But it doesn't. The game has totally changed. Yes, in a sense its not that perfect sequel you were waiting for. But I personally do not give a **** about that. EVERYONE starts back to step one. Hugs already summed it up pretty nicely. It isn't the fact that you consider it undeep that bugs me but rather the fact that you push it off as a bad game and encourage everyone around you to do the same. Brawl's focus gameplay-wise has shifted, if you can't handle it, then go back to Melee. Just quit *****ing because it doesn't get anyone anywhere. And I'll also add that the game won't stop being competitive because M2K quits. With a few veterans quitting and a ****load of new players entering the scene, as long as people are willing to put some effort, the scene will never die. In that aspect aswell you think of yourself much too highly.

Actually it does, kthnxbai.

No the game has not totally changed. Some of the game physics have changes but overall it is the same thing with a few new additions/changes/removal of things. I have not once said the game is bad, lol. I love the game, it was very fun. But that doesn't change the fact it will never be anything close to what Melee is. I also never said anything about anyone quitting the scene lol...I just said us highly-competitive players who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to playing the game at a competitive level know 100% more about everything that has to do with smash than you and all of the rest of your scrub army of scrubness.

The first time I played Brawl I sat down and started beating people that have been playing the game since it came out in Japan. Experience shifts from one game to another...thats just common sense. Brawl is not 100% different than Melee. So no EVERYONE does not start back at step one, the noobs start back at step one while the skilled players evolve the meta game once again.... while all the noobs like your self sit back and watch. The things you learn when you are at a high level of the meta-game cannot be understood by someone like you, plain and simple.

Go and try and explain to Michael Jordan how basketball is played. lololololololololol because thats exactly what you are trying to do here. Trying to tell highly skilled Smash Bros players what Brawl is all about. lololololol

 

[Cojiro]

And that is the problem. You still think that all the knowledge you've acquired gives you much more of an authority when it comes to predicting Brawl's future. But it doesn't. The game has totally changed. Yes, in a sense its not that perfect sequel you were waiting for. But I personally do not give a **** about that. EVERYONE starts back to step one. Hugs already summed it up pretty nicely. It isn't the fact that you consider it undeep that bugs me but rather the fact that you push it off as a bad game and encourage everyone around you to do the same. Brawl's focus gameplay-wise has shifted, if you can't handle it, then go back to Melee. Just quit *****ing because it doesn't get anyone anywhere. And I'll also add that the game won't stop being competitive because M2K quits. With a few veterans quitting and a ****load of new players entering the scene (online will have a tremendous impact), as long as people are willing to put some effort, the scene will never die. In that aspect aswell you think of yourself much too highly.

This is exactly right. Flexible frame of mind (BentoBox, HugS, Hylian), or stubborn intransigence (m2k, mrC).

A change of game may require a change of mindset/approach. Don't just attempt to crowbar your skills from melee into Brawl, have it not work and then say it sucks. That's a shallow approach, of course it will lead to shallow results.

EDIT: Wow, you really are a ****er. Have fun with your mad skillz Michael Jordan.

 

[BentoBox]

Actually it does, kthnxbai.

No the game has not totally changed. Some of the game physics have changes but overall it is the same thing with a few new additions/changes/removal of things. I have not once said the game is bad, lol. I love the game, it was very fun. But that doesn't change the fact it will never be anything close to what Melee is. I also never said anything about anyone quitting the scene lol...I just said us highly-competitive players who actually know what they are talking about when it comes to playing the game at a competitive level know 100% more about everything that has to do with smash than you and all of the rest of your scrub army of scrubness.

The first time I played Brawl I sat down and started beating people that have been playing the game since it came out in Japan. Experience shifts from one game to another...thats just common sense. Brawl is not 100% different than Melee. So no EVERYONE does not start back at step one, the noobs start back at step one while the skilled players evolve the meta game once again.... while all the noobs like your self sit back and watch. The things you learn when you are at a high level of the meta-game cannot be understood by someone like you, plain and simple.

Go and try and explain to Michael Jordan how basketball is played. lololololololololol because thats exactly what you are trying to do here. Trying to tell highly skilled Smash Bros players what Brawl is all about. lololololol

LOL wow. Patheticness has reached new standards .

 

[Aesir]

Tool:

One who lacks the mental capacity he's being used.


lolololol so you like to fail a lot rite

 

[IrArby]

These are just questions really so save the public flamefest for another post please. Can anyone give me a rough sort of gueestimate concerning how long it took for the key Adv. Techs in melee to be discover/applied. I understand that the metagame has never stopped evolving and new applications are still being found for old techs but as to the essentials like the stuff you'll find in general melee tech forums how long did it take for them to be discovered?

Granted people were probably not looking for them like they are in Brawl so that has to be taken into account and as to "New" techs and their applications I think that there are only so many different buttons to press after any given action. People are really looking for something right now and coming up empty-handed. Thus far the most impressive non-intended adv tech found (that I've seen) was the sliding turnip throw thingie. As you may have guessed, I play Marth just like you guys so the fact aside that this tech doesn't look terribly groundbreaking, as a Marth main I'm not greatly impressed.

Also thanks very much to M2K. Your advice/opinions are highly valued at least on this PC.

 

[peril1337]

What is the point of all the flaming and calling eachother tools? Seriously. It's immature.

 

[Mr.C]

What was the point of Smashboards? Oh yeah, to bring together all of the competitive Smash Brother players and create a community. Why are so many noobs fludding the boards when they don't even want to be apart of the competitive community in the first place? lol

 

[Warlock*G]

**** this ****, let's all play with items on and have fun already.

To WarioWare! Chaud devaaaaaaant!

 

[BentoBox]

Tool:

One who lacks the mental capacity he's being used.


lolololol so you like to fail a lot rite

You don't have to be oblivious to the fact you're being used to be one.

and hum hi =D howdoudo?

 

[Warlock*G]

Can't we all get along, pretty please? Let's just learn tricks to improve our metagames and be buddies at the end of the day mmmkay?

Now you should all hug each others.

 

[Aesir]

You don't have to be oblivious to the fact you're being used to be one.

and hum hi =D howdoudo?

Please point to where I'm being used, otherwise you're just full of utter failure. Like I've probably crapped out **** more productive then you.

 

[K1T3]

What was the point of Smashboards? Oh yeah, to bring together all of the competitive Smash Brother players and create a community. Why are so many noobs fludding the boards when they don't even want to be apart of the competitive community in the first place? lol

You see, it was announced that this game smash bros brawl was going to come out for the wii and many people that used to play ssbm for fun wanted information on it and came to smashboards. Around this time the brawl boards were born and have since been an influx of noobs and are still predominately made up of noobs.

 

[Young Danny]

M2K gave his opinion on the game, some vehemently disagreed and vice versa.

SWF beginners lack competitive smash context, and it shows. M2K's initial ubiquitousness came from this

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30064

When M2K states his opinion on the meta-game, it is highly BELIEVABLE.

M2K says Brawl will be played slower and lack the technical depth of Melee. No one is challenging M2K's Smash context and Smash knowledge . You disregard his opinion by stating "It's not melee 2.0... give Brawl more time...everyone starts from zero at this game."

If you do not agree with M2K, refute him with the technical facts and reason-based logic , the same method M2K used to form his opinion on Brawl.

As a MLG Smash/Halo judge for 2 years, I have seen this story arc. HALO 2, while still a very skill-based FPS, will NEVER, ever, approach the competitive depth of HALO 1.

While still extremely early (as Hugo and Chris correctly stated) there are CLEARLY troubling characteristics of Brawl (some that M2K correctly stated). I really do not want this to be a HALO 2, but, it looks like it will be.

Kirby M.D.- of course combos do not inherently equal skill, but, the propensity of it in FG's has been a hallmark of great competitive FG's: Tekken's tag, 4, and 5, 3s, CvS2, Mvc2, to name a few.

 

[Warlock*G]

M2K gave his opinion on the game, some vehemently disagreed and vice versa.

SWF beginners lack competitive smash context, and it shows. M2K's initial ubiquitousness came from this

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=30064

When M2K states his opinion on the meta-game, it is highly BELIEVABLE.

M2K says Brawl will be played slower and lack the technical depth of Melee. No one is challenging M2K's Smash context and Smash knowledge . You disregard his opinion by stating "It's not melee 2.0... give Brawl more time...everyone starts from zero at this game."

If you do not agree with M2K, refute him with the technical facts and reason-based logic , the same method M2K used to form his opinion on Brawl.

As a MLG Smash/Halo judge for 2 years, I have seen this story arc. HALO 2, while still a very skill-based FPS, will NEVER, ever, approach the competitive depth of HALO 1.

While still extremely early (as Hugo and Chris correctly stated) there are CLEARLY troubling characteristics of Brawl (some that M2K correctly stated). I really do not want this to be a HALO 2, but, it looks like it will be.

Kirby M.D.- of course combos do not inherently equal skill, but, the propensity of it in FG's has been a hallmark of great competitive FG's: Tekken's tag, 4, and 5, 3s, CvS2, Mvc2, to name a few.

I thought that it was pretty obvious that Brawl would less competitive than Melee...

I mean, all those mechanisms removed, and then there's tripping...

 

[Kirin]

Yeah tripping is just... ugh.

 

[Hydde]

What was the point of Smashboards? Oh yeah, to bring together all of the competitive Smash Brother players and create a community. Why are so many noobs fludding the boards when they don't even want to be apart of the competitive community in the first place? lol

I dont want to enter in the argument you are havin guys... but just wanted to point out here:
"Smashboards: The largest smash brso community"......... not "the largest smash bros competitive community".

Dont get me wrong, i dont want to be rude....we all here love the competitive side of smash but dont be so elitist.

Smashboards is for everyone.

 

[mario-man]

yeah what's up with tripping?!?! *slaps Sakurai in the face* lol

 

[Hydde]

tripping being random is so gay... i hopes there is somthing we are missing that causes the trip... i just cant beleve its random!