Who's trying to morph what? Brawl has changed, deal with it already, god. And how does a game looking more like some of the same genre make it forcibly less prone to competitiveness? To me, what has always made the SSB franchise unique is its intuitiveness And in that respect, it will -always- stand apart. Disagree if you want, but you are wrong.
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M2K stuff about Marth (big update first post)
- Thread starter Mew2King
- Start date
- Status
rubiksfriend
Smash Apprentice
The series as a whole is completely different from ALL OTHER FIGHTERS. The basic K.O. system supports this. You cannot compare the other fighting games to Smash. It just doesn't work. Kudos to mario-man.
Irow
Smash Ace
And while we're on the topic of other fighting games...
If you compare speed to a game like Guilty Gear, even Melee pales in comparison. By a lot. Even combo-wise, Melee can't compete.
So if you really want to play a technical game, go play Guilty Gear or Street Fighter.
That's not to say Melee wasn't a good game, but seriously...
Just because Brawl is so completely different, does not mean we can write it off this early.
If you compare speed to a game like Guilty Gear, even Melee pales in comparison. By a lot. Even combo-wise, Melee can't compete.
So if you really want to play a technical game, go play Guilty Gear or Street Fighter.
That's not to say Melee wasn't a good game, but seriously...
Just because Brawl is so completely different, does not mean we can write it off this early.
Miggz
Pancake Sandwiches
I dunno but you guys, but I'll be playing melee for a long time to come. I think other ppl and pros will be too...
TuRk E
Smash Apprentice
Well I feel its still too early to tell what will happen to competitive brawl but the tournaments I have heard about so far have been pretty successful and the american version isnt out yet. We all have to just adjust ourplay style with a new game. This may be easier for people like me who didn't rely on wavedashing. This was mostly because I didn't really get into competitve melee. I cant reallycomment on m2k's impressions cuz I dont have the game but one thing I will disagree with him on is that I dont believe the game will be "TERRIBLE". Just because something has "less" competitive potential doesnt make it a bad game. And we still cant judhe competitive potential yet its way too early.
mario-man
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,840
jsyk for future reference, if the game is bad competetively, there are ALOT of people who will consider it a bad game. I may be one of them if it turns out that way. Actually, I will still consider it a good game, but I will not play it very much. I'll just lay Melee IF that happens.
TuRk E
Smash Apprentice
Thats my point exactly its not fair to the game if you right it of as bad if it isnt as great competitively. I still think brawl will be a huge success with his control scheme causing players to think.
The number of people who choose to abandon the game for childish reasons pales when compared to the number of newer players the community has gained. Really, no one cares. Miss out if you wish to, just stop trying to convince others that its bad when you're just being ignorant. And this isn't aimed specifically at you.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
the terrible thing is my own opinion of it, you can have a different one if you want. and no brawl doesn't really take more thinking, it takes more camping with a little bit of randomness to it.
im afraid every brawl match is going to be like fighting jigglypuff (minus the rest) where the only safe way to play is to hardly attack at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZxz1YhuA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f53aeimv8I0
I really, really, really DON'T want brawl to turn into this, but with safe offensive maneuvers taken out, it's going to be harder to attack well.
I really, really hope I'm mistaken however, because while camping is effective, it's really really boring and I was hoping I would be forced to attack more in brawl rather than having camping be encouraged.
im afraid every brawl match is going to be like fighting jigglypuff (minus the rest) where the only safe way to play is to hardly attack at all
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MaZxz1YhuA0
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f53aeimv8I0
I really, really, really DON'T want brawl to turn into this, but with safe offensive maneuvers taken out, it's going to be harder to attack well.
I really, really hope I'm mistaken however, because while camping is effective, it's really really boring and I was hoping I would be forced to attack more in brawl rather than having camping be encouraged.
Cojiro
Smash Journeyman
TuRk E
Smash Apprentice
From the vids Ive noticed things didnt seem campy but thats jusy my opinion
TuRk E
Smash Apprentice
A lot of people say that brawl takes a lot more mindgames which implies that it takes more thinkin which I belive it does but I still dont have the game yet just like the majority of America.
Cojiro
Smash Journeyman
I knew someone would do that soon.
Also, Hugs': http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=143089
EDIT: Hylian's article about a change of mindset is perhaps the most important article relevant to this discussion. With changed mechanics comes a changed mindset. I'm glad this is sinking in and the majority of people have stopped carrying on.
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=144841
-sonny-
Smash Journeyman
It doesn't even matter if it's a different game. The reason that he doesn't like it is because it's just so **** simplified.
Yeah, it's hard to do combos in Brawl. That's not comparing it to Melee, it's just a fact that ANY FIGHTING GAME that has a crappy combo system with a VERY basic premise just isn't going to be that good. It'll still be fun, but from a competitive stand point, it just can't work.
No one is even trying to make Brawl "Melee 2.0". They just want to make it more fun for them to play, because right now it looks like Brawl (NOT comparing it to Melee, but as a standalone game) just isn't that great.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
Well what the hell else do you expect jiggs to do against marth >_>. If you don't want camping wars then don't pick a character that forces them to camp lol.
DADDY
Smash Cadet
rename this thread to "johns: the story of mew2king"
Cojiro
Smash Journeyman
1. Denial
2. Anger
3. Bargaining
4. Depression <-you are here
5. Acceptance
It's good to see the community here moving on. From Denial: "Wavedashing is in foolz", to Anger: "I hate joo Sakurai u suxorz", to Bargaining: "we must petition online!!", to Depression: "Brawl sux, not competitive, no depth".
To Acceptance: It'll be different, and that's ok.
EDIT: Just listen to DADDY, that works too.
mario-man
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,840
Unbelievable the lack of respect for M2K!! Seriously people, he said himself, HE DOES NOT WANT BRAWL TO BE A BAD GAME!! He is just worried that it is, and he is expressing his feelings. Doesn't anyone get any respect for winning like 5 national tournaments?!?!
Any NORMAL Melee player should expect more respect than he is getting. I know I do.
Any NORMAL Melee player should expect more respect than he is getting. I know I do.
ELI-mination
Smash Champion
marth takes no skill quit life
Ryan-K
Smash Master
I respect him as a player but not for his presentation of his opinion.
Also no **** he doesn't want it to be a bad game I wouldn't it want it to be either if I spent money importing it or modding my wii or something. I don't think anyone ever wants a bad game lol >_>.
DADDY
Smash Cadet
mario-man hop off of mew2king's **** plz.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
What? How can you treat someone like they want a bad game? That doesn't even make sense.
I was making a point because he was complaining about jiggs matches but I was pointing out that as far as I know jiggs is pretty **** limited against Marth in melee in terms of how to approach anyway and brawl is way different you don't have to camp you just have play different.
I was making a point because he was complaining about jiggs matches but I was pointing out that as far as I know jiggs is pretty **** limited against Marth in melee in terms of how to approach anyway and brawl is way different you don't have to camp you just have play different.
Cojiro
Smash Journeyman
Not really that helpful mate.
As to people saying who deserves respect, I'm sure almost everyone here thinks m2k is a good ssbm player. I'm not sure that means he gains an automatic maturity when assessing something like Brawl though. You can judge this maturity by past comments with respect to Brawl. Just putting it out there.
No-one wants it to be a bad game. Some people apparently aren't too willing to change their playstyle though.
1rst.
2nd.
WE GOT THE POINT. Brawl is slower, brawl is more intuitive. Now can we PLEASE move on? You don't seem to realise how stupidly annoying all this needless bickering is really getting. Just when will it stop may I ask you? (bold for emphasis) 5 years from now when the metagame will have reached its peak? Sorry but I do not have the patience for that. Yes, he does not want Brawl to be bad, like anyone else. But -bad- is relative, and he seems pretty insistent on despising brawl the way it currently is. Melee's still right around the corner. You can either participate in unravelling SSBB's potential or kindly stfu.
peachori
Smash Journeyman
its funny how i read m2k's we need wavedashing thread and thought "wow, m2k is going crazy"
now, after having put some time into brawl, i tend to agree with him.
you should play 3rd strike m2k, its really really fun.
now, after having put some time into brawl, i tend to agree with him.
you should play 3rd strike m2k, its really really fun.
mario-man
Smash Lord
- Joined
- Feb 6, 2007
- Messages
- 1,840
Dude, don't be stupid K? It's called defending someone when they have been wronged, which he has been, by alot of you guys. He is NOT some god or something ok. I am just saying that he deserves our confidence because he has proven MASSIVE gaming skill in more than one way. He has researched and spent hours of time studying Melee. Yes, Brawl is a different game from Melee, but it is still smash bros. and as such it has certain things that are basically the same in every game. Those are the only things he is baseing his statements on.
This is how: The way you say things make it sound like he wants it to be a bad game and is trying to make us all believe so without any proof. You are completely disregarding his SMASH BROS. history, not Melee, but Smash Bros. It is a series and, as I said above, has certain things that are basically the same in every game. He is taking THOSE THINGS and saying that after playing Brawl, it is appearing that they have been changed TOO MUCH. Sure, if they reduced or increased the lag time or stun time a little, that's fine. But cutting the stun time almost completely out is another thing altogether. You have now changed the heart and soul of Smash Bros, and replaced it with something like Street Fighter, which is a good game. Not discounting SF in ANY way, but Smash is NOT SF. And it should be different from it. You are tearing away what the game really is and are completely changing it onto some new game. I am not afraid of change, but I do not want this much change in the same series of games. If they would develop a new game and call it something like "Beat em up Fighter: Nintendo" or something like that(which is a sucky name), then I'd be absolutely fine with that. But this is still the same series of games. And should not be changed as much as is being suggested. (if they are wrong, then I have no problems here. That is, the stun time from attacks is still reasonable enough to pull off combos)
Read above^^^
Cojiro
Smash Journeyman
5. Acceptance
Hopefully soon.
Hopefully soon.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
Well I guess some people don't realize how big of a change 64 was to melee.
There is still enough stun for combos ffs in fact while stun was generally reduced it's not that bad except for alot of throws which wouldn't combo anyway unless they stunned for ridiculous amounts of time.
You didn't answer my question because I don't want him to think it's a bad game or whatever bull**** you are sprouting.
I know this response is old but "this isn't melee 2.0" so deal with it.
There is still enough stun for combos ffs in fact while stun was generally reduced it's not that bad except for alot of throws which wouldn't combo anyway unless they stunned for ridiculous amounts of time.
You didn't answer my question because I don't want him to think it's a bad game or whatever bull**** you are sprouting.
I know this response is old but "this isn't melee 2.0" so deal with it.
K1T3
Smash Lord
Thanks for the marth stuff and impressions M2K. It would be great if you kept it up.
Superryan I can't say for sure but I don't think he just meant the jiggs camping... it was more of how playing a match vs jiggs is. M2K camped the crap out of jiggs(this is the best way to play against jiggs), and Mango did it back of course since he is jiggs. So it was lots of camping on both sides which makes for a long match.
As far as brawl, yes it's a different game but it's still very similar to melee and can still be compared to it. It doesn't look like it will be as competitive as melee though it does seem to still be a competitive game.
Edit: Should've quoted about the jiggs thing...
Edit 2: Will people please stop saying this isn't melee 2.0.... We know that.... It's melee 0.5
Superryan I can't say for sure but I don't think he just meant the jiggs camping... it was more of how playing a match vs jiggs is. M2K camped the crap out of jiggs(this is the best way to play against jiggs), and Mango did it back of course since he is jiggs. So it was lots of camping on both sides which makes for a long match.
As far as brawl, yes it's a different game but it's still very similar to melee and can still be compared to it. It doesn't look like it will be as competitive as melee though it does seem to still be a competitive game.
Edit: Should've quoted about the jiggs thing...
Edit 2: Will people please stop saying this isn't melee 2.0.... We know that.... It's melee 0.5
Dark Sonic
Smash Hero
You guys are also forgetting that M2K takes smash bros very seriously. Do you know why he's so knowledgable about pretty much every aspect of melee? It's because he actually studied all of those things himself and was kind enough to relay his knowledge to you. He's respected because of how hard he works, not just because he's good (though that helps). Okay, so now he's got to master a new game, but he's still that devoted analyzer that he was in melee and still deserves our respect.
The fact is that he's really hoping that someone can come up with tangible evidence that he's wrong. He simply is tired of hearing this blind optimism "new techniques will be discovered" and wants cold hard evidence. And he's actively looking for that evidence too, so stop freakin' flaming him.
The fact is that he's really hoping that someone can come up with tangible evidence that he's wrong. He simply is tired of hearing this blind optimism "new techniques will be discovered" and wants cold hard evidence. And he's actively looking for that evidence too, so stop freakin' flaming him.
Ryan-K
Smash Master
I know that but that's why I said "then don't pick a character that forces them to camp". If you don't want to camp you don't have to in order to win except for certain characters. The fact that he was complaining about camping in general though prompted the suggestion to "not play a character that forces camping".
There is no blind optimism, everyone is just pissed at his ridiculously negative attitude and somewhat brash conclusion about the metagame in brawl. He has been wrong before lol -_-. I don't really see how "this game will be gay camping" really helps anyone tbh but maybe that is just me.
Also to reply to below post: I wouldn't be arguing if I didn't play the game myself.
TuRk E
Smash Apprentice
Well to take a break from all the flaming, I dont believe any1 means to disrespect m2k its just hard to understand where he is coming from cuz most of us havent played it yet. Give it time. Im sorry if this is getting repetitive but I have yet to find a person to convice me otherwise.
Black_jo
Smash Journeyman
QFT.
Seriously, lets wait at least 2 years and we'll say if brawl is still slow, with no combos and techs.
K1T3
Smash Lord
It is true that marth forces jiggs to camp, but jiggs also forces marth to camp. You say he shouldn't play that character so that the jiggs isn't forced to camp, so then he shouldn't play his best in an important match? As far as not having to camp in order to win... if you havn't played any really good jiggs players before you do actually have to camp the jiggs in order to win almost no matter what character you play. Granted some characters like fox will force her to stop camping and come to you, but you still have to camp.
TuRk E
Smash Apprentice
BTW when u get a chance m2k do u plan on competing in brawl anytime soon?
Ryan-K
Smash Master
I wasn't saying just in terms of the matchup; I was saying in general. I am NOT telling him to not use his best character but if he despises camping as much as he said he did he wouldn't be using a character that forces camping in the first place. Yes he has to camp jiggs a majority of the time but he can still use fox for example as you said and not have to go into massive camping wars. It's just the fact that he compared that 7 minute BS fest on dreamland to the whole brawl metagame is annoying.
I don't think brawl is as campy because the pace of the game makes it harder to punish smaller mistakes imo unless he's talking about projectiles in which case only like pits arrows and i guess pikmin stood out as camping projectiles since falco doesn't go as fast as brawl among other things.
While I could be completely wrong I am not arguing my point as total fact but the game doesn't seem as totally campy either. I think the real problem is apparently a name is everything in this community.
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