Luigi's Mansion Mafia - Game Over!

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Like nabe's latest post although I find soup townie. Which leaves Joey/dabuz and splash my previous discontent on nabe into there too.

Him suggesting knowledge of the game null. Kary's question pointless.

Nabe: kary is more scummy because he's had me at his arm length scum read all game. I udnerstand haitng me but he's just sitting on me to be there because it's easy to hate me. IMO

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Also, if Circus claims (and claims anything like mortician) we be lynching him. That's final

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

My vote on you was initially a response to me not liking your slot, and considering you to be a bigger hurdle in terms of a read, than Frito, Rake or dabuz or whoever ****ing else we were voting for. THEN, when you posted your 1393, I did a spit-take and that's when I really decided you needed the noose. You can ****ing tell because my response to that post involved a pretty significant change in my demeanor toward you. Prior to that, while I didn't like your slot, I was also trying to read Marshy. After that is when actually killing you became pretty much my entire focus.

On the contrary, the reason Circus' demeanor significantly changed in his response to that post is because the material was now in place to frame AM. Circus led AM into bringing up the possibility of hidden roles, and when he had the trap was laid. Circus proceeded to push AM for a bit after this, but ultimately "acknowledged" that AM wasn't happening that Day. ToDay, he posts a post that he says he wrote yesterDay but didn't post, in which he retroactively halfclaims a role-reveal-related role.

Hm. Was about to post a biggun, but I'll save it for later. Would rather not leave it like a lump on the table when Ryker's not here to respond to it. Better to give people some time to digest what's already been said, I guess.

Here he mentions the post in question -- he says he doesn't want to clog the thread with it, but in reality he's saving it for toDay so that he doesn't endanger the Frito mislynch.

please do not hammer frito right now

please let us have the last full day of discussion

i know it burns your flesh—physically burns it—to wait for a conversation to finish before killing someone but please

for my sanity

Here he says, "Don't hammer Frito right now" suggesting that AM wasn't on the table, despite his public arguments to the contrary.

okay, so forget that post i saved. It's way too late to matter (won't move a new wagon in time) and I reveal things in there that need not be revealed if it has no hope of getting AM lynched right now.

Just remember that Ryker brought up the idea of hidden flips apropos of nothing in order to defend his claim. That's the important part. I've noticed that a lot of people don't seem to actually be clear on what set me off so much with regards to AM over the last few pages. It was that. Not meta. Not the choice to claim itself. Those factor into what happened, but the red flag is the implication of knowledge that Ryker shouldn't have. He knows that, which is why he kept harping on even when I was talking about other factors.

Confirmation of the prior.
"Remember toMorrow that I was going to claim toDay, guys! This will be important after the hidden flip!"

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

mind unvoting jerkus for a quick second nabe?

Unvote

I am not scum, and your reason for thinking I am scum seems pretty weak. Maybe I am town and I am pushing Rake to see whether there is support for that lynch? This feels a lot more like you are trying to find someone who might be scum with Circus, rather than actually looking at my play to see if it's scummy.

But anyways, talk to me about being wrong on Ryu.

Yes, I did say it was PoE after all, given that I know several players to be town. But it also explains the reason behind the unshakable tunnel on Rake, despite lack of reasoning on him, and it explains why it's been (intentionally) so hard to build a plausible scumteam.
I was sure about Ryu. I guess my radar is broken. There's nothing else to be said outside of postgame, when I'll talk to him and hopefully figure out what drove me to the conclusion.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Circus led AM into bringing up the possibility of hidden roles, and when he had the trap was laid.

I looked back on this because I think your argument boils down to Jerkus having a plan over AggroMed, which is really hilarious because I seen Jerkus jump to action over AggroMed who happened to play off Jerkus and vote him in the same instance. It literally went down with Jerkus getting steam for AggroMed going and then being shut out completely by a out of nowhere claim by AggroMed. I don't see how Jerkus prompted him to reveal the possibility of hidden roles, and if anything, his post in #1386 is focusing more on Meta than anything, thinking that AggroMed doesn't have a reason to claim his role in the way he did.

Your argument really just makes me feel more strongly on this, so thanks for that.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Nabe I am really struggling to see how you can be town and have more than 2 clears on Day 3.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

You clearly didn't read that all the way through. The cap of events was relevant to my stance on things. I think that what is going down holds merit and as stated before, I would be foolish to overlook. Right now I'm mostly siding with Jerkus for reasons already stated in said post

Alright, I've basically read the gist of the argument between Jerkus vs. Aggro, and I have to say that town's best interest today is in-between those two. I know neither will submit and they have become hard pressed on each other being scum, though I have a few questions.

AM, I don't understand your preference to vote thuggin' over Jerkus when the majority of your posts mostly concern him and there's a slight tidbit about why you scum-read marshy, and honestly in your head you're throwing him in with Jerkus because of certain interactions and it fits in your agenda.

I see this argument in two manners. You believe Jerkus and Thuggin' are pushing you on a fake Freudian slip on your part and are both scum who have had weird interactions with each other. Your case is more based on personal observation, along that you feel that Circus is fabricating his reason to scum-read you, and both are just trying to make a play on you.

On the other side of the argument, Circus is stating that he believes you actually slipped and is pushing you on that intent prior. The kill being anonymous fits in his previous reasoning, and he believes that you had prior information based on this post.



Circus also mentions he has legitimate reasoning to believe so, hinting at a mortician-esque role in the same post.




What I really want to know is something Circus might want to know, and it's mainly that I want to know what lead you to make that post Circus quoted. Was it just coincidence? Did you have an actual reasoning to think that? Circus' reasoning at the moment sounds more conclusive than yours because you're just trying to bundle Thuggin' and Jerkus together, which I don't feel makes sense. I really want to believe that there is a Mortician role, and Jerkus' thought process feels more believable, even if I was suspecting him more over you at first. It really went past my head but a lot of what he's saying makes sense, and I don't know how you can go against it and say that they're both scum, or jerkus is for that matter.

Unvote

"What is going on has merit" is not a stance on AM/Circus, or on anyone. It is a sidelining of your prior target (Rake) in exchange for a stanceless non-action: "Let it play out" and an Unvote.
You're siding with Circus because AM "doesn't make sense", but you state, "town's best interest lies between those two" rather than any implied focus on AM. It reads non-partizan. It reads do-nothing.

 

[we thuggin]

vote jerkus

i trust the rest of town to be way more patient than i am. post t minus 11 hours

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I need more from AM before I'm ready to call him scum. I want him to answer me and I want to see what Jerkus does and claims. Also, you forgot to bold the part where they're not going to submit to either one until they come to a resolution or one is dead. Even if I wanted to push another avenue I couldn't, which is why my focus is going into this.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Nabe I am really struggling to see how you can be town and have more than 2 clears on Day 3.

Clear: Nabe, Rake, Gorf/Thug
Obvtown: Scary
Not clear: Circus, dabuz, Kary, soup, Masquerain
Not clear, but can't see being scum with others: AM

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

unvote.

Imma just do this for now, being the whole l2 again

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I seriously cannot believe that people are siding with AM on this though. What about Jerkus' play doesn't make sense from here? Nabe opens up a possibility and theory, but I don't see how that 'theory' isn't just Jerkus following his instincts. AM was more reactionary on re-read and is literally just OMGUS. Is anyone open to TvT at this point?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

or whatever it is.

Jerkus should get here.\


Exam today. Still here. GG school

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

I need more from AM before I'm ready to call him scum. I want him to answer me and I want to see what Jerkus does and claims. Also, you forgot to bold the part where they're not going to submit to either one until they come to a resolution or one is dead. Even if I wanted to push another avenue I couldn't, which is why my focus is going into this.

The ends justify the means? Surely your prior reads are equally as important as a WIFOM fight to the death, if you're taking time to assure Kary that Rake still matters. It would be pretty transparent if AM or Circus suddenly hopped to another avenue entirely; your participation in another wagon won't give them any out. So what remains is still that I don't like your active bystander take on the Day and on other avenues that you could be pushing in the interim.



Circus is still L-2, folks.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

AM is being really obvtown soup.

 

[#HBC | Nabe]

Circus is still L-3, folks.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

The ends justify the means? Surely your prior reads are equally as important as a WIFOM fight to the death, if you're taking time to assure Kary that Rake still matters. It would be pretty transparent if AM or Circus suddenly hopped to another avenue entirely; your participation in another wagon won't give them any out. So what remains is still that I don't like your active bystander take on the Day and on other avenues that you could be pushing in the interim.



Circus is still L-2, folks.

What do you want me to do? Vote AM? Rake? I could, but what does my vote say that my words already have? I'm not ready to vote, plain and simple. I still dislike Rake. I honestly think a lot of his posts this day have been pretty ****ting but I'm putting it aside. I have no idea if you're basing Circus/Kary team on interactions or just that you're comfortably scum-reading them both right now. I really don't understand your defense of Rake so fervently either, but I doubt that will go anywhere.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

AM is being really obvtown soup.

Okay, AM is being ObvTown. How is Circus not? What incriminates Circus over AM?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Well first off he said we.

Second off, what he's hinting at claiming.

Thirdly, Circus is more incriminated because i find his push really reachy. I'm reading it over again because intially i had AM v Circus as TvT as well, but im leaning more to the AM side as it goes

 

[#HBC | Kary]

So why was it a good idea for Circus to try and 'spring a trap' on AM? Why does Circus need to lynch AM when he could lynch Rake or someone?

And i'm confused as to why Circus' claim makes him scum. What about claiming some sort of mortician role is scummy?
Yeah, I get that he seems to be tunneling on that issue when he talks to AM, but maybe that's just because he's town and he has that role?

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

AM is the last batalion of resistance, with him gone, scum's win pretty much agogo.

Because I don't like how he's alluded to it, and I'd like it even less if he claimed it.

I doubt highly circus has that role, I'm waiting for his real; claim to be impressed

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Shiz nabe schooled me.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

AM is the last batalion of resistance, with him gone, scum's win pretty much agogo.

Because I don't like how he's alluded to it, and I'd like it even less if he claimed it.

I doubt highly circus has that role, I'm waiting for his real; claim to be impressed

Nope. If AM was really a big obstacle to scum they can just night kill him. But they didn't.


You doubt Circus has a role that investigates dead players, in a game where flips are hidden? Why is that scummy?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Alright, I've basically read the gist of the argument between Jerkus vs. Aggro, and I have to say that town's best interest today is in-between those two. I know neither will submit and they have become hard pressed on each other being scum, though I have a few questions.

AM, I don't understand your preference to vote thuggin' over Jerkus when the majority of your posts mostly concern him and there's a slight tidbit about why you scum-read marshy, and honestly in your head you're throwing him in with Jerkus because of certain interactions and it fits in your agenda.

I see this argument in two manners. You believe Jerkus and Thuggin' are pushing you on a fake Freudian slip on your part and are both scum who have had weird interactions with each other. Your case is more based on personal observation, along that you feel that Circus is fabricating his reason to scum-read you, and both are just trying to make a play on you.

On the other side of the argument, Circus is stating that he believes you actually slipped and is pushing you on that intent prior. The kill being anonymous fits in his previous reasoning, and he believes that you had prior information based on this post.



Circus also mentions he has legitimate reasoning to believe so, hinting at a mortician-esque role in the same post.




What I really want to know is something Circus might want to know, and it's mainly that I want to know what lead you to make that post Circus quoted. Was it just coincidence? Did you have an actual reasoning to think that? Circus' reasoning at the moment sounds more conclusive than yours because you're just trying to bundle Thuggin' and Jerkus together, which I don't feel makes sense. I really want to believe that there is a Mortician role, and Jerkus' thought process feels more believable, even if I was suspecting him more over you at first. It really went past my head but a lot of what he's saying makes sense, and I don't know how you can go against it and say that they're both scum, or jerkus is for that matter.

Unvote

Alright, I'mma start here and then work to the rest of you.

Before I begin, let me clarify that this is the Laundry half so a lot of "why did Ryker do this" will not get you much of anything. I can only really answer about today and hazard guesses as to what my other head was doing beforehand--I didn't have a lot of access to the site last week due to a mixture of crashboards and it being the last week of school with two presentations to do and studios closing that Friday with work both for myself and my internship to do. I had somewhat of a full plate and so I had to rely on my other head a lot to get things done.

In this case, I'mma give it a shot: it was coincidence and there's no other way around it. My other head has a tendency to try to consider everything that might happen and provide safety nets for it. It's why we get so meticulous to the point where we literally crack set-ups as scum and particularly indy (see: Elements and Attributes and Skies of Arcadia, the last two games this hydra ran) just to avoid whatever may be thrown at us by town/scum. Seeing him say "I claimed here because this could happen" makes sense to me as a result. He doesn't like to get caught with his pants down. Hell, him claiming in general makes sense with that philosophy.

Soup, what do you make of him making that claim today in the middle of the argument? Why do you think he didn't claim then and there when it clearly gave him enough power or reason to lynch us and could've easily swung the wagon to us? Saying "well he might be a mortician" doesn't make sense because it's just as convenient for him to claim that as it is that today's flip got hidden. You're aware of that, right?

As for the Jerkus read, my other head's is predominately what you've noticed in the thread but I'm gonna weigh in on why I found him somewhat weird before that point. I've waffled on him for a good portion of the game because while he was by and large absent, I didn't find myself wholly disliking what he was saying on the surface. His knee-jerk reaction to marshy after D1 was appropriate and I liked what he said there. My problems with the slot lie deeper than that--he hasn't done much of anything with that despite it being there. He dropped it and pursued other **** by and large for a majority of D2, despite constantly phrasing responses to marshy that suggest that he might be town but that he doesn't trust him. Now he comes in saying that marshy is scum today. Where did that D1 scumread go? Why did it turn into "I don't want you leading town"? Why did it go back to being scum? There's this nebulous treatment of marshy that Circus never acts on despite constantly ******** about him and it's gross. It reminds me exactly of what he was doing to PJB in KvK and I hate it.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Nope. If AM was really a big obstacle to scum they can just night kill him. But they didn't.


You doubt Circus has a role that investigates dead players, in a game where flips are hidden? Why is that scummy?

Why blow an NK on a slot you think you can lynch, especially after he's already claimed? C'mon Kary, that's basic mafia.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I seriously cannot believe that people are siding with AM on this though. What about Jerkus' play doesn't make sense from here? Nabe opens up a possibility and theory, but I don't see how that 'theory' isn't just Jerkus following his instincts. AM was more reactionary on re-read and is literally just OMGUS. Is anyone open to TvT at this point?

The fact that I can literally hear Kevin in the back of my head saying "Oh, how convenient" every time I read a post from Jerkus.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

What do you want me to do? Vote AM? Rake? I could, but what does my vote say that my words already have?

It puts your money where your mouth is.

 

[#HBC | Kary]

Why blow an NK on a slot you think you can lynch, especially after he's already claimed? C'mon Kary, that's basic mafia.

No, no, no. Don't come in here and give me this.

I asked why Circus would go after you, rather than pursuing something else that would arguably be much easier to get, i.e. a Rake lynch.

If Rake wants to argue that lynching your slot is what gives scum the game, then he has to explain why scum wouldn't just shoot you. Otherwise he has to come up with another reason why Circus decided to go after your slot.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Soup, what do you make of him making that claim today in the middle of the argument? Why do you think he didn't claim then and there when it clearly gave him enough power or reason to lynch us and could've easily swung the wagon to us? Saying "well he might be a mortician" doesn't make sense because it's just as convenient for him to claim that as it is that today's flip got hidden. You're aware of that, right?

I don't know, and my only thought could be that he possibly didn't want to claim if he didn't have to. I don't remember Jerkus ever explicitly claiming other than taking his time to grill you afterwards, and here we are. There's a possibility of a hint here or there but I think that he wanted to leave a paper trail if scum caught onto him. Now, do you agree with Nabe's assumption on why Jerkus did what he did? Your read is sounding less about his claim and more about his play in general, but what interests me is mostly his claim.

 

[Shun Goku Satsu Rake]

Goddamn kary , if your town you are dense

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I am MUCH more interested in why AM decided to claim in the first place (why they decided to claim at that point), rather than any of this he-said she-said bull**** about some implication that there was going to be a flip hidden. The idea that we're talking about 'foreshadowing' and 'Freudian slips' I find completely ridiculous because I don't think something is a scum-slip when it could just as easily be a coincidence.

And let's not even bring up why Raz was shot. Maybe he was supporting AM. Maybe he knows AM well enough to tell when they're scum. Don't give me that WIFOM waste of time. He was generally agreed to be town and his flip doesn't particularly influence the direction of the game, which is as good a reason as any.

I explained why I thought my partner claimed and I think he's done the same today. What did you glean from that?

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

The fact that I can literally hear Kevin in the back of my head saying "Oh, how convenient" every time I read a post from Jerkus.

Why can't it just be convenient for Town Circus? :I

If you put Circus under the light that he was planning and fabricating all of this reasoning, it's literally just a different perspective without a conclusive argument.

How about this: Do you think there is a Mort role in this game?

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I don't know, and my only thought could be that he possibly didn't want to claim if he didn't have to. I don't remember Jerkus ever explicitly claiming other than taking his time to grill you afterwards, and here we are. There's a possibility of a hint here or there but I think that he wanted to leave a paper trail if scum caught onto him. Now, do you agree with Nabe's assumption on why Jerkus did what he did? Your read is sounding less about his claim and more about his play in general, but what interests me is mostly his claim.

I honestly don't give that much of a **** about his claim. While I might sound like a broken record, it's exactly as I said: it fits his argument as conveniently as the no-flip that happened today did. Your interest in it is why I asked you those questions. I don't like the answer of "I don't know." Think about it. If you can't come to an answer yourself, find out.

For what it's worth, I also don't like the answer of "he didn't wanna claim if he didn't have to." What cop holds onto his **** after he has a bingo? If Circus is truly a mortician or something along those lines (which isn't even guaranteed because I don't know why he didn't full claim that aspect as well), then why didn't he choose to lynch us on it? Think, Soup!

Lemme work back to Nabe's ****, I'm tackling Kary's stuff directly after we left.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

Why can't it just be convenient for Town Circus? :I

If you put Circus under the light that he was planning and fabricating all of this reasoning, it's literally just a different perspective without a conclusive argument.

How about this: Do you think there is a Mort role in this game?

Only if Circus has it. Note: I think Circus is lying.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

crashboards. then all these walls. can't be arsed right now.



go **** yourself.

You were on the FT waggon because that was so imporant for your reads, and this is what you have to show for yourself. Pathetic.

No, go **** yourself. The scenarios that happened here reminded me a lot of what happened in Ducktales. You weren't around for that game but Soup and Joey were. Sue me for drawing a comparison.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

I honestly don't give that much of a **** about his claim. While I might sound like a broken record, it's exactly as I said: it fits his argument as conveniently as the no-flip that happened today did. Your interest in it is why I asked you those questions. I don't like the answer of "I don't know." Think about it. If you can't come to an answer yourself, find out.

For what it's worth, I also don't like the answer of "he didn't wanna claim if he didn't have to." What cop holds onto his **** after he has a bingo? If Circus is truly a mortician or something along those lines (which isn't even guaranteed because I don't know why he didn't full claim that aspect as well), then why didn't he choose to lynch us on it? Think, Soup!

Lemme work back to Nabe's ****, I'm tackling Kary's stuff directly after we left.

I think his claim is the most important and relevant thing here. It's the whole reason why I'm siding with him right now because I really get what he was trying to do. He had no reason to reveal his claim without having a solid reason to do so. His reason to grill you is just him prodding information and seeing if he is going to go through with it, and there's also some other reasons he didn't really like you, but I don't care about that. I'm not Circus. I can't go in his head and assume I know what he's going to do every single time and I can only lead on my perceptions and what I think. I can't give you a solid answer for that reason.

You raise a very interesting point and I can't deny that though, which pisses me off because I don't know why he didn't just go ahead and claim if he felt he had enough.

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

Only if Circus has it. Note: I think Circus is lying.

If he's lying, then you have my vote. If he's not, then I will look beyond the claim and I will look at what you've been saying about him. And what he has for this matter, which is mostly just about your claim. It's ironic how this is going down about claims.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

I think his claim is the most important and relevant thing here. It's the whole reason why I'm siding with him right now because I really get what he was trying to do. He had no reason to reveal his claim without having a solid reason to do so. His reason to grill you is just him prodding information and seeing if he is going to go through with it, and there's also some other reasons he didn't really like you, but I don't care about that. I'm not Circus. I can't go in his head and assume I know what he's going to do every single time and I can only lead on my perceptions and what I think. I can't give you a solid answer for that reason.

You raise a very interesting point and I can't deny that though, which pisses me off because I don't know why he didn't just go ahead and claim if he felt he had enough.

One of these things is not like the other! One of these things just doesn't belong!

 

[#HBC | ѕoup]

One of these things is not like the other! One of these things just doesn't belong!

I get what circus was trying to do from a town perspective. I don't understand why he wouldn't just go ahead and claim though, but to damn him on preference on how he handles his role is like yelling at a PR for not doccing the person you wanted to doc. I cannot read beyond further than this because Circus has to explain his own actions.

 

[Aggressive Mediation]

As for the **** Nabe was talking about, I agree with everything he said that involved Circus or the scumteam's motivations. The ****ers finally made something transparent and I'll be damned if I let it get away.