Luigi QA - RIP Mark Dunstan "Marky-Mark"

[Ch3s]

For double aerials...thats how its supposed to look. It barely pops out for forward smash and all the others cancel into the ground (they all should be l-cancelled). I dont think u fast fall em tho?

if you can short hop and waveland u can short hop aerial waveland...its really not hard except u cant do it with neutral air. Can you waveland properly? Also dont fast fall it at first (i dont remember which ones u can fast fall and still waveland)

If youre one of them visual people watch this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UK4K556f4TI It covers all of this

Summary of my Ramblings: I dont wanna cramp up this post with a list of which aerials can be fast falled and not but really u cant fast fall the double aerials and u dont need to fast fall the waveland.

Please correct me if im wrong all you non-noobs

 

[T-Cash]

i went home and my friend broke it down for me im getting better with my double arials and wavelands
thanks for the advice

 

[Ch3s]

Hey Pakman I looked for a little and cant find the input for the platform nairs (like in nair chronicles). Can you help me out with how you do those and the timing if you know it? Thanks

 

[Mogwai]

down, release, A, l-cancel

 

[Ch3s]

Im guessing thats like frame perfect? Ill get to workin on it I suppose thanks. Works with bair too right?

 

[Mogwai]

i have no idea, it works with Falco's bair though.

doing it with directional aerials is easier cause you can just smash down and a direction on the cstick at pretty much the same time and then just l-cancel, rather than having to wait for the control stick to get back to neutral.

I think Luigi's nair has a least a few frames for the window to make it work.

 

[Pakman]

What Mogwai said. It is just a timing issue.

There are 2 ways to practice it. With stars in training mode, or setting a character to full handicap with .5 damage on.

 

[Divinokage]

What Mogwai said. It is just a timing issue.

There are 2 ways to practice it. With stars in training mode, or setting a character to full handicap with .5 damage on.

Or just keep fighting an opponent until everything's down at the same time. Wouldn't that be better? That's how I did it lol. It might be a slower method but at least you get battle skills and everything that comes with it at the same time, I think it saves time in the end.

 

[Pakman]

KAGE!!!!!

Well I am not lucky enough to be able to play real opponents on a regular basis.

 

[Ch3s]

Haha wow Im guessing from your responses you have to hit with it to make it work! Woww now I feel....lame and nooby at best. I did it like third try with the star trick. Thanks guys

 

[Divinokage]

KAGE!!!!!

Well I am not lucky enough to be able to play real opponents on a regular basis.

Ya that's gonna be an issue with most players, that's fine. So you do what you can but at least you get to play the good players every once in a while so you can see how you do or how much you improved. Though you really HAVE to go to tournaments, pressure and all that is also an issue and training your mind too. Watching videos just isn't enough, you have to fight good opponents to see what the top level is like.

That pic is like what's gonna happen basically, Fair crouch cancel bad DI lol.

 

[Ch3s]

I went to a tournament today for the first time in a long time and I have two things. Where should I post videos if they get any up for critique? Should the boards have a thread or just post it here?

Also and mostly: There were a crap load of samus' and they gave me alot of trouble. Can i get general advice on what to do with samus? Mainly how to punish her down air (pokes my shield alot), good combos and combo starters, and/or how to avoid her missiles. Thanks in advance

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Samus!!!

I play Samus in Brawl so I'm completely out of tune with her Melee game, but the past few days I've been doing some heavy Melee training so I have a few tips for you xD.

For Dair, I can't say much. Like I said, I'm out of practice.

But Missiles. SOLUTION: Charge straight at Samus with a DownB. The missile should collide with your fist (otherwise it'd be too high to hit you) and the two moves will cancel each other out. You'll be able to instantlyyy do another move. Another DownB if you're out of range, perhaps? Or if you're IN range, then just do DownB -> Ftilt, which is what I usually do because Ftilt is so reliable.

Yay :D.

 

[X WaNtEd X]

How do you consistently spike with Luigi? When I'm edge guarding, I generally use dair, and it usually works but I've only been able to pull off a spike with it a few times, and by accident. How do you spike with dair?

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Read stickies por favor.

http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=64648

 

[Oracle]

you really can't consistently spike, the hitbox is so small and awkward. Bair is usually better for edgeguarding anyways.

 

[-ACE-]

Pakman, I didn't search for very long, but I haven't seen any data about luigi's chaingrabs. As in, which characters he can chaingrab with uthrow/dthrow for any DI when performed correctly. Is there a post (probably a magus post) on this?

 

[Pakman]

No I don't think there is a post about it. Pretty much all of his chain grabs are very DI dependent. I have CG'ed sheik before which isn't possible with good DI. I am not sure of the specifics, but I rarely chain grab non spacies.

 

[-ACE-]

Yeah I was mainly wondering about spacies and falcon. I'm pretty sure that the cg on fox is legit up till med% but I wasn't sure. Guess I'll just do some of my own testing on various directions of DI.

 

[Oracle]

In most situations you can simply up/down throw->smash attack and tech chase or combo from there, getting you a lot more damage a lot easier.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

Yep. What 1WA said.

 

[-ACE-]

Lol, it doesn't take long to master the chaingrab and it is a great asset. Platforms break it up but they also provide very easy techchases which often lead to edgeguard opportunities. Maybe you guys never miss techchases and 0-death every fastfaller you play in tourney. I don't, so I'd like to cg lol, where 1 grab guarantees your opponent is at high damage and probably offstage.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

At 0, Fox and Falco will often fall for:

Uthrow -> Reverse Dsmash -> Wait for the landing -> Jab reset -> UpB. 0-52. It finishes real fast, and I'd much rather put my chances on that than a chaingrab, but eh.

If I have time later today (if school is canceled tomorrow) I'll look into some CG stuff for you in a bit.

 

[-ACE-]

Thanks mayne.

 

[Vudujin]

Uair is a really good move. I found a way to use it in melee like you can in 64

 

[Oracle]

Was it against a CPU? All cpus constantly survival DI, making them really really easy to combo but harder to kill.

Up air is prone to DI, so when they DI up, yes, they go straight up and it's an awesome combo move, but if they don't DI or DI away then you can't follow up. Fair hits a tad above you anyways.

 

[Vudujin]

No, it's actually better if they do Di, if it's short-hopped properly (hit with the earliest part of the hitbox) then you follow up with wavedash f-tilt right before they hit the ground, no one ever techs Luigi's f-tilt, so you follow up with SHORYUKEN!!! and since they're on the ground you get the full impact, baby!!!

Works on fast-fallers to say the least

It's similar to 64 in regards to uair and shroyuken being used in the same combo
I've done it on intelligent players. So it's legit to an extent.

 

[Smash G 0 D]

SHDair-ing a shield into FFLUair and jabs is legit. Uair goes into jab for pressure quite nicely.

 

[Lordydennek]

Any advice against sheik and marth? I have a hard time against those characters.

 

[Vudujin]

Wavedash > jab > reverse grab > down throw > Chop Suey! . . . . works on Marth, it's Luigi's bread and butter against him on the ground. If they DI the down throw you can just repeat the first 4 parts. Keep Marth in the air right above you, then he's under your constant control cause his down air is slow, techable and predictable. Nair/u-tilt > uair > chop is a trusty combo in the air. Just try to stay under him and keep him in the air; your priority will win in most cases. Don't get grabed. When you're recovering stay low and hug the ledge so you can tech his spike.

 

[1Frame_Dynamism :: Bamsey]

Marth is easy, you just have to play oddly. Just shield and use your speed. SHIELD lots and WD OOS away or into things. Marth can't space against Luigi, Marth's switch to their secondaries to fight me now. The BEST Marths. It's sexy.

Sheik is ew...not very good sheiks are tough for great Luigis...
Again you have to play different, and grab lots. It's like impossible to avoid her crap so trading hits is like...the only way. :[

 

[Pakman]

yeah I haven't lost to a marth in awhile. ROFL's guide is really good.

 

[CR4SH]

I'm not certain that this is the best place to ask. But it's something I'd figure pakman might know.

Whats the most pragmatic choice for a secondary for luigi? (Tier whoring included) Or is it in one's best interest just to get better at luigi and tough it out?

 

[Pakman]

I think sheik. Learn to be gay at sheik dittos and then you can autowin any low tier. Sheik is also good for the gannon and marth matchups.

 

[Mogwai]

I've always been of the opinion that ICs are theoretically the best Luigi secondary.

 

[thegreatkazoo]

I'm not certain that this is the best place to ask. But it's something I'd figure pakman might know.

Whats the most pragmatic choice for a secondary for luigi? (Tier whoring included) Or is it in one's best interest just to get better at luigi and tough it out?

I second Doc & Marth. However, considering my massive lack of skill, this may not mean that much. =\

I've always been of the opinion that ICs are theoretically the best Luigi secondary.

How so?

No really, I'm curious.

 

[Pakman]

Doc doesn't sound too bad either.

IC's suck unless you put a lot of time into them. I think having them as a secondary isn't worth the time it takes to learn the character. (Trust me I tried to learn IC's for awhile and they were terrible.)

I think fox and sheik are good because they also cover one of Luigi's big weaknesses... counterpick stages.

 

[Mogwai]

I see a lot of similarities in their playstyles (being mobile on the ground with wavedashes, being floaty, being good off of grabs, relying on opponents not knowing wtf is happening, etc) and I think that ICs cover Luigi's two worst high tier matchups well (Sheik and Falco). The only thing I think that both they and Luigi lack is a decent matchup vs. Ganon, but w/e, **** Ganon, let the Falcos and Sheiks knock his big ugly *** out for you.

I think my biggest issue with Sheik or Fox as a secondary is that you're bound to just become a Sheik or Fox main

 

[thegreatkazoo]

Not gonna lie, but methinks that going against a Ganon is worse than a Falco.

Thoughts?

 

[Mogwai]

I agree, I think Ganon completely futtbucks Luigi.