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Luigi in Brawl+?
- Thread starter Yonder
- Start date
FB Dj_Iskascribble
Frostbitten
on all light characters d-throw -> sweet up-b. try it, its **** and unavoidable as you can just follow any and all di
elheber
Smash Lord
Haven't played it. From what I read, Luigi's SH is 5% smaller and his FF is 20% faster. Other than that, I saw no other Luigi-specific changes.
Of the global changes that would affect Luigi a lot include:
The global gravity increase might solve the infinite grab problem that Luigi has.
No C-Stick FFs mean it's easier to autocancel ddAir (dAir+dAir) aerial shorthops.
Autosweetspotting ledges during upB means Luigi might put himself in danger during recoveries if not careful.
Canceling dashes with crouch sounds like it'll extend Luigi's dSmash range or lead to other ATs (running Fingerbang anyone?)
Luigi has 50% less lag on aerials, so for the Aerial Machine that Luigi is, it sounds good... but the same applies for most of the rest of the cast (cough-Marth-cough).
Of the global changes that would affect Luigi a lot include:
The global gravity increase might solve the infinite grab problem that Luigi has.
No C-Stick FFs mean it's easier to autocancel ddAir (dAir+dAir) aerial shorthops.
Autosweetspotting ledges during upB means Luigi might put himself in danger during recoveries if not careful.
Canceling dashes with crouch sounds like it'll extend Luigi's dSmash range or lead to other ATs (running Fingerbang anyone?)
Luigi has 50% less lag on aerials, so for the Aerial Machine that Luigi is, it sounds good... but the same applies for most of the rest of the cast (cough-Marth-cough).
elheber
Smash Lord
New post for important stuff:
Ok, I just plaed it for about an hour (by myself), so here are my first impressions regarding Brawl+ and Luigi:
WOW! Firstly, it feels SOOO nice! And combo-wise, Luigi got buffed (as I expect happened to a lot of others). Almost everyone falls faster and stuns longer, and it gives you plenty of chances to follow up with even more attacks (both ground and aerial). None of the CPUs have been able to stop/avoid my dThrow to uAir. We will see MANY unstoppable combo strings from Luigi (and others I bet) just as the coders claimed they would.
Also, unless you just walked away from playing Melee and have never played Brawl, you'll want to change your input buffer to at least 5 frames (set 50% handicap), or to 10 frames (100%) if you need it to feel like Brawl.
Now that Crouch cancels the Dash, Luigi has a brand new Setup/Dash-Attack... the Running dTilt!!! It ***** your face, and you end up loving every inch of it. Luigi's low traction make him slide as he crouches into a dTilt. It's a quick setup into a Jab, and the Jab is a quick setup into anything else of course. It's unbelievable how useful it is for Luigi to finally have a good "dash attack". Crouch Canceling Dashes will be the Luigi Board's new "thing", and I predict many ATs and combos will come of this.
On the negative side (and this is a huge negative), the removal of upB auto-ledgegrabbing/sweetspotting is a major problem for Luigi. Even if you time it perfectly so that you touch the ledge at the apex of the SJP, Luigi still won't grab the ledge until he starts tilting backward for the upside-down fall. It leaves him completely vulnerable to anyone standing next to the ledge waiting to dTilt Luigi! This isn't as big of a problem for others like Mario, for example, because Mario would at least knock the opponents back with his stronger SJP and diagonal trajectory... but Luigi's SJP is weak (if not FJPd) and goes straight up; therefore barely making the opponent flinch if ever connecting at that straight upward angle. Characters with extended hitboxes like Marth do not have this problem either. Luigi's recovery got nerfed big time.
I think this applies to the Green Missile too... you can't sweetspot as easily anymore. If your GM hitbox is still there when you reach the sweetspot, you won't grab the ledge. Crazy huh?
Back to the good... like the rest of the cast, Luigi's Fastfall is FASTER than his falling speed! AWESOME. Even after reaching his full falling, you can still "turn it up to eleven" so to speak. It's only 20% faster, at about average what the rest of the characters can FF to (DK can fall 40% faster with his FF). In this 1 hour of playtime, I've made combo strings where I launch Falco into the air, chase him with aerials, and land before his stun is over to continue the string on the ground. This is a result of increased momentum, ALR (Aerial Lag Reduction), increased hitstun, and faster FFs.
VERDICT: Since I'm only playing CPU opponents, I can't tell how much other characters got buffed. Without comparison to others, Luigi got buffed. Comparing the "buffedness" to what other characters got, though, might show Luigi not increasing by much. That disabled autosweetspot really hurts Luigi a lot. But the last thing I want to say is this:
This is what Brawl should have been! Everyone MUST get this if they've enabled homebrew on their Wii. It feels so right.
Ok, I just plaed it for about an hour (by myself), so here are my first impressions regarding Brawl+ and Luigi:
WOW! Firstly, it feels SOOO nice! And combo-wise, Luigi got buffed (as I expect happened to a lot of others). Almost everyone falls faster and stuns longer, and it gives you plenty of chances to follow up with even more attacks (both ground and aerial). None of the CPUs have been able to stop/avoid my dThrow to uAir. We will see MANY unstoppable combo strings from Luigi (and others I bet) just as the coders claimed they would.
Also, unless you just walked away from playing Melee and have never played Brawl, you'll want to change your input buffer to at least 5 frames (set 50% handicap), or to 10 frames (100%) if you need it to feel like Brawl.
Now that Crouch cancels the Dash, Luigi has a brand new Setup/Dash-Attack... the Running dTilt!!! It ***** your face, and you end up loving every inch of it. Luigi's low traction make him slide as he crouches into a dTilt. It's a quick setup into a Jab, and the Jab is a quick setup into anything else of course. It's unbelievable how useful it is for Luigi to finally have a good "dash attack". Crouch Canceling Dashes will be the Luigi Board's new "thing", and I predict many ATs and combos will come of this.
On the negative side (and this is a huge negative), the removal of upB auto-ledgegrabbing/sweetspotting is a major problem for Luigi. Even if you time it perfectly so that you touch the ledge at the apex of the SJP, Luigi still won't grab the ledge until he starts tilting backward for the upside-down fall. It leaves him completely vulnerable to anyone standing next to the ledge waiting to dTilt Luigi! This isn't as big of a problem for others like Mario, for example, because Mario would at least knock the opponents back with his stronger SJP and diagonal trajectory... but Luigi's SJP is weak (if not FJPd) and goes straight up; therefore barely making the opponent flinch if ever connecting at that straight upward angle. Characters with extended hitboxes like Marth do not have this problem either. Luigi's recovery got nerfed big time.
I think this applies to the Green Missile too... you can't sweetspot as easily anymore. If your GM hitbox is still there when you reach the sweetspot, you won't grab the ledge. Crazy huh?
Back to the good... like the rest of the cast, Luigi's Fastfall is FASTER than his falling speed! AWESOME. Even after reaching his full falling, you can still "turn it up to eleven" so to speak. It's only 20% faster, at about average what the rest of the characters can FF to (DK can fall 40% faster with his FF). In this 1 hour of playtime, I've made combo strings where I launch Falco into the air, chase him with aerials, and land before his stun is over to continue the string on the ground. This is a result of increased momentum, ALR (Aerial Lag Reduction), increased hitstun, and faster FFs.
VERDICT: Since I'm only playing CPU opponents, I can't tell how much other characters got buffed. Without comparison to others, Luigi got buffed. Comparing the "buffedness" to what other characters got, though, might show Luigi not increasing by much. That disabled autosweetspot really hurts Luigi a lot. But the last thing I want to say is this:
This is what Brawl should have been! Everyone MUST get this if they've enabled homebrew on their Wii. It feels so right.
kigbariom
Smash Lord
Brawl plus is just faster or something right. Altered physics?
Because I might want to try it.
Because I might want to try it.
HURRICANE REV
Smash Ace
Brawl+ can dead.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Kigbariom, its more than altered physics, it has tons of balance changes as well. We can alter the following on an individual move basis: frame speeds at any point during a move, damage, base knockback, knockback growth with percentage, damage type, and launch angle.
We use these abilities to go beyond enhancing just the physics, such as to nerf metaknight and buff a lot of the lower tiers. Players will notice that falcon, ganon, link, etc all play well now and are viable characters. There are tons of other changes and I recommend you check out the Brawl Plusery stickied thread in the Smash Workshop for a total comprehensive changelist in the second post.
Back on topic though, luigi is a monster in B+. His combo's are scary good and while sweetspotting is harder, it is still possible. I fear the man in green when I play against him haha
We use these abilities to go beyond enhancing just the physics, such as to nerf metaknight and buff a lot of the lower tiers. Players will notice that falcon, ganon, link, etc all play well now and are viable characters. There are tons of other changes and I recommend you check out the Brawl Plusery stickied thread in the Smash Workshop for a total comprehensive changelist in the second post.
Back on topic though, luigi is a monster in B+. His combo's are scary good and while sweetspotting is harder, it is still possible. I fear the man in green when I play against him haha
BearJaw
Smash Cadet
I actually don't like playing as Luigi in B+. I'm so used to buffering his moves that it throws me off in B+ and makes Luigi seem much more floatier. I've given up on him in B+, but I rarely play it anymore, when I do I use G&W or Pokemon Trainer.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
I'm not quite sure what your talking about, as each player can modify his/her buffer. The Handicap function has been converted to a personal buffer window function instead, akin to a FPS "sensitivity" style setting.
So, when you adjust your handicap, you are no longer doing a handicap, but adjusting your buffer window as follows:
0=0 frame buffer
10=1 frame buffer
20=2 frame
.
.
.
100-300%=10 frame buffer (Brawl default)
Hope that helps
KRiMz0N
Smash Journeyman
what is this i dont even
HURRICANE REV
Smash Ace
Brawl+ seems like a good game but the only problem with it is that the game is HACKED!!!!!!!
LuigiKing
Smash Lord
How is this a problem?
BearJaw
Smash Cadet
I did not know that. All I was talking about was pressing R (block) before touching the ground. Thanks. I'll try him out again now.
elheber
Smash Lord
You can still buffer from fastfalls like normal. And Teching is actually easier now.
HURRICANE REV
Smash Ace
This Post Contains Anger Towards Brawl+
It's not a problem. I just think that Brawl+ needs to DEAD!!!!!!
Brawl+ is such a stupied game!! Brawl+ is for Beginners.
elheber
Smash Lord
I get it now; you were being sarcastic. It all makes sense now.
HURRICANE REV
Smash Ace
errrrrrr............................................ No.
Kiyuzoh
Smash Cadet
Because of no auto sweet-spotting ledges in Brawl+, Luigi's down-taunt spike is much easier now, and much more fun to try. Also, you can crawl-dash out of a run, giving you a longer distance while sliding backwards, leading to an improved Luigi ground game. (Finally!)
Don't try it if you're in a tourney or something, it's still very hard to land.
He's much better in Brawl+, and IMO he's much more fun, also.
Don't try it if you're in a tourney or something, it's still very hard to land.
He's much better in Brawl+, and IMO he's much more fun, also.
elheber
Smash Lord
Almost everyone's speed is improved. Even Luigi.
chic
Smash Ace
or you could just play melee...
Excellence
Smash Champion
I can't wait to see this fall flat on its face. Why do people honestly believe in Brawl+? It simply cannot work.
shanus
Smash Hero
- Joined
- Nov 17, 2005
- Messages
- 6,055
Hi excellence, glad to see your daily brawl+ flame rotation today
Played a lot against luigi yesterday, he has some dangerous combos. Dthrow to upB works very well on some chars
HURRICANE REV
Smash Ace
I agree with this. Can someone Lock this thread please?
And yet a lot of people would say that about Brawl, so throwing stones and glass houses and all that.
No, but I will move it to the right room.
elheber
Smash Lord
Crawl Dashing is insanely better.
Running dTilt -> uTilt is KO combo.
FF nAir is SUPER EFFECTIVE (even more, I mean). The increased speed of the FF really changes everything.
dThrow -> aerial FJP is unavoidable on large characters unless they DI.
Confirmed: no more autosweetspotting the ledge with Green Missile.
Running dTilt -> uTilt is KO combo.
FF nAir is SUPER EFFECTIVE (even more, I mean). The increased speed of the FF really changes everything.
dThrow -> aerial FJP is unavoidable on large characters unless they DI.
Confirmed: no more autosweetspotting the ledge with Green Missile.
Revven
FrankerZ
Or you could try Brawl+ and realize why we play it.
GirugaMarc
Smash Apprentice
his nair hitstun is sick
I <3 it
edit: trolls should gtfo or gtfo
either one works
I <3 it
edit: trolls should gtfo or gtfo
either one works
elheber
Smash Lord
Tell me about it, it seems everyone LANDS before their stun is over. I get time to nAir Fox, jump again, FF, and nAir him again. It's a good thing Techrolling is easier, otherwise I could almost infinite with this.
EDIT: AND you can hard nAir, and chase them up with a Rising Cyclone before the stun is over.
Gindler
Smash Champion
Thank goodness this isn't a my character sucks in brawl+ thread...because Dthrow to Shoryuken is pretty "broken", assuming you can actually get a grab
Heh, with his bad traction and it being DI and character specific, I think it's a pretty nice tradeoff. He's still got that beastly Jab>Shoryuken combo though!
LuigiKing
Smash Lord
Why is it that there is so much contempt for brawl plus when it does not harm brawl at all? You people are soooooooooooooo gay.
elheber
Smash Lord
Getting a grab using Luigi is easy as pie. If I get a Jab in, chances are, I've already grabbed you. That's the beauty of the Jab Grab technique.
But the dThrow to FJP (Fire Jump Punch, for the layman) isn't as reliable as is being described. I can dThrow to FJP Bowser, DDD, and Charizard 100%, but I whiff on most other characters most of the time (even DK) and I just knick them out of their tumble. It's not that reliable.
Besides, he has so many out-of-dThrow options: Hyphen Smash, Dash Pivot Re-grab, uTilt locks on fastfallers, Zap Jump Green Missile... and those are just the grounded options. Chasing them you have nAir KO, long uAir/fAir strings, and the much-easier-than-before dAir spike to nAir. I'm like a kid in a candy store.
I've already changed my recovery to compensate for the horrible SJP. The SJP is no longer a recovery move as far as I'm concerned.
elheber
Smash Lord
Can this be moved to this forum?
I'd prefer not to, for this reason.
I'll be locking this thread about 12 to 18 hours from now (unless someone beats me to it): feel free to use it as an opportunity to discuss the origin of a Luigi thread.
I'll be locking this thread about 12 to 18 hours from now (unless someone beats me to it): feel free to use it as an opportunity to discuss the origin of a Luigi thread.
elheber
Smash Lord
So what you're saying is someone else who cares enough to keep his OP updated will start a new Luigi thread over there? If so, sounds good to me.
jalued
Smash Lord
luigis uptilt is broken at low %, i think it should have a bit more knockback, but n extra gain. oh and his jab should have alot more knockback, so u cant jab to up b. but i could be wrong lol
Magus420
Smash Master
You could only jab->up-b 15 characters in vBrawl, and quite a few of those require you to hit with a specific hitbox of the jab or it can be blocked. With the increased fall speed that number can only be less due to the way it works, as landing even 1 frame earlier than normal would cause it to not work on a number of those characters and they would be able to block before the up-b comes out.
Even on a fast faller like Sheik at 0%, his u-tilt shouldn't hit more than like 2-3 times as long as you DI to the appropriate side normally. With SDI you can escape even easier. Even in vBrawl with staled knockback and it not causing a knockdown (so you couldn't DI it normally) nearly as early you could still use SDI to get out easily enough.
Even on a fast faller like Sheik at 0%, his u-tilt shouldn't hit more than like 2-3 times as long as you DI to the appropriate side normally. With SDI you can escape even easier. Even in vBrawl with staled knockback and it not causing a knockdown (so you couldn't DI it normally) nearly as early you could still use SDI to get out easily enough.