ALiAsVee
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Apr 13, 2008
- Messages
- 739
I start with an example:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt53flmF2m0
A great match from Boss that shows some Buffering Shorthopped Dairs, i don't remember the times, but you will want to watch the whole thing anyway ;].
If you watch the video, you basically see Boss shorthopping a dair, hitting the shield button (usually L or R) and quickly shorthopping into another aerial. I use Brawl's buffering system; a button input system that allows you to do different moves while in the animation of a move already. I'll explain this in application...
Luigi does a Shorthopped Dair and immediately does an air dodge right before he hits the ground. When he does this, he has virtually no lag and ends up in his standing animation. I want to explain the buffering system with this situation. (Note: I use the cstick for smashes). When you press shield to buffer, you can input another move during the air dodge animation. By doing this, the game will initiate the move you inputted as soon as you buffer. It sounds confusing but basically:
As soon as Luigi hits the ground, he will immediately do the next move. So if i do a downsmash while air dodging, i'll quickly do a dsmash the first frame possible. This can be done with almost any move, and you know you are doing it right when you see Luigi initiate his next move immediately after hitting the ground. Yes i know this is basically explaining how Buffering was used in Melee all over again, but i felt the need to explain.
Useful Combinations
With this said, i found several tricks you can do that utilize the Buffering System. Note: You don't HAVE to do an air dodge to buffer into a different move, I've been told you can just do it after Luigi hits the ground, but typically only after a dair or fair. When i refer to cancel, I am referring to auto canceling.
...into a dsmash: Not only can you do this move immediately out of the cancel, but you can slide a little a bit with this move for added range.
...into a fireball: Situational, but at mid range can halt an advancing enemy long enough to approach with another move. I do empty short hops into a canceled fireball and mix it up with a shorthopped fireball into a second fireball to throw the enemy off, especially when dodging my projectiles.
...into an fsmash/Upsmash: Self- explanatory, use this to quickly finish off an opponent if they are within range. An efficient, yet difficult application is airdodging to cancel your lag while evading an attack. If you are about to get with the last few frames of an enemy smash, its possible to buffer while just barely dodging the attack. If your enemy has moderate-heavy lag after their attack, they can quickly be punished with a smash. (I'll make a video later showing this, but i have a hard time timing it right).
EDIT: While its a little bit harder to land, an Up-Angled Fsmash is also VERY useful. In a point where Luigi mainers are putting more focus on the Fsmash, this and Jab buffers are essential for a great Luigi.
...into a dtilt: A quick trip to set up further combos, such as a jab jab cancel into a smash, or a simple dtilt into upB. NOTE: On high %'s the dtilt knocks Mario straight up, leaving him wide open for an attack, but only at >100% from what i've seen. If anyone can give me more information on further characters that react like that, it would help out.
...into a grab: Also self-explanatory, this works very well if you do a two hit jab combo into it, as most people expect you to do an UpB.
...into a shield: Albeit not really being buffered from the L cancel, its still a viable option if your opponent has gotten wise to your attacks. Space this properly and you can slide with the impact of their attack on your shield. Yes, i'm promoting Luigi's poor traction, as its often over looked by luigi mainers. By using his traction, you can literally slide yourself out of tough situations, i'll discuss further applications about this in later posts.
...into a dash attack: Another taboo of the Luigi game, the dash attack. I also have a lot to say about this move as well, but for now i can tell you i use it to confuse my opponent who is about to react offensively to Luigi. It cancels out a fair amount of attacks (i don't have hard data on this), and if spaced right, can lock the enemy in. I find this also useful in pushing the enemy off stage, as the dash attack as higher knockback on the last hit.
...into a tornado (Credit to Faithkeeper on this one, I forgot to add it): Buffering a tornado works well out of a cancel to attack the enemy with, as long as you hit the fireball while rising in the shorthop (otherwise you can't buffer). This works as an improvement of the application to the standard short hop>tornado, as its buffered now and much faster. Very useful for approaching.
...as a taunt: Yeah, Hippiedude92 brought this up I thought...well its an application isn't it xD. It is pretty nostalgic though to do some canceled dairs while waiting for your opponent's next stock.
...mindgames: All this stuff adds up into confusing your opponent. One thing Luigi has because of the poor attendance in tournaments is the possibility for the biggest shock factor. Come into a tournament pulling off some crazy fast canceled moves and you are sure to surprise your opponent, who by the time they adjust to Luigi's broad range of options, may already have lost the match.
...into a jab: THIS ONE IS SUPER DUPER IMPORTANT PLEASE DO IT ALL THE TIME KTHXBIE. Anyways, this move is insanely fast and is great for Jab Grabs or general set ups into smash attacks. I can't believe I neglected to use this enough...Its almost impossible to punish because it is so dang fast, so use that to your advantage.
...into an ftilt: This one is as widely used as others, but its a great spacing device because it comes out fairly quickly. Shield pokage when angled downwards? I need to test this one out.
2. Generally, i use the buffer into aerials, to quickly cover the field and be aggressive towards my opponent. I suggest any Luigi not buffering out of everything possible to start doing so now: it gives you a wealth of options at a moment's notice. It makes Luigi faster, and it allows a broader definition of Luigi's game, which can branch out to subsequent new styles of play.
Conclusion
I wrote this with hopes of kindling ideas on the boards. My biggest problem with people, is that they tend to leave out moves in a character's moveset because they aren't "useful". In Luigi's case, i am talking about his ftilt, dash attack, and on a side note, his physics.
I honestly don't find any move of Luigi's ia bad, and i try to use them all in different ways. His traction is what makes him unique, and should be used as an advantage against characters who don't slide so much. I know I left things out, and there are plenty of things i haven't even touched on. I am not a Luigi master, i am only a Luigi Mainer. If people comment to this thread and say they have learned something, i'll be happy. If people comment to this thread and teach me something, i'll be happy. If people don't have anything to say, but ask questions of others, i'll be happy. I play Super Smash Bros to have fun, and my definition of fun is trying to figure out how to use my character to his ultimate potential.
Mindgames
Buffering, from the way I see it, is the glue to Luigi. There is nothing special about Buffering; as in, there is nothing about Buffering that is unique to him as a character as opposed to others. I second Kirby; I buffer with him. I play as fox; I buffer as him. No matter who you play as, buffering is a gift of speed to any character; it remains one of the few exploits in the Smash series that players behind the casual level can go to in order to improve their game. If you don't do it, do it. Go in training mode, and buffer buffer buffer (I assume that since this is the backroom, we all know what a buffer is and what options are available to Luigi when he does it, (Buffer guide available in TOC).
I call this glue because it keeps everything together in Luigi's game. The general consensus is that Luigi is an aerial approach artist (whatever approaching means to Luigi), but since he is a non-floaty he is bound to the ground much like any other character. Let's take a staple approach; the bair (which is listed as a means of approach per Locuan's list, which I stress we don't forget about).
Ok, great. We use Luigi as another no-zone, with less range than our prime example of stage domination: Fireball. Honestly, this approach only works on a ruffled opponent. By ruffled, I mean an opponent who has been a in a heated "phase" of battle (I don't know how else to say it in English, in my language "phasa" is a like a scene, but that applies to movies ><). What I am getting at is, Bair is not a good approach right at the start of battle because it's easily predicable and shield grabbable (I know from being on both ends of the grab).
What you can do with bair, is play an aggressive space cadet with it (Yes I have weird names, bite me). What's the difference between aggressive spacing and actual attacking? Well it's pretty obvious from the names; one you attack, the other you space.
Wow I go off on a tangent with this stuff, I'm going form buffering to spacing, hopefully I'll tie this all up soon. In order to space correctly, you need to know how far of a range your opponent has. In the first few weeks of brawl, I sampled every character to test their "range" and any moves to watch out for (I called it when I said Snake's Utilt will cause problem xP). A well spaced bair definition would be a Bair that does damage but doesn't leave Luigi up for punishment either. Bairs are quick and easy to throw out, but you may not always be in a situation for a well spaced Bair. The important thing to keep in mind is that your priority in Brawl is avoid damage, NOT deal damage.
So how does Buffering apply? Well since we already know that it allows us to get in our moves faster, we take advantage of that. At any given instance between Bairs, you have the option to buffer almost ANYTHING you want. That's extremely versatile; the ability to sneak in moves quickly with a reduced risk of punishment. Are you fighting an enemy a stationary enemy that powershields all your attacks? buffer a grab and (insert Luigi Combo here). An enemy that retreats form your aggressive Bairs? Push him off the stage with a quick Ftilt (yes, there are uses for that move). An enemy that is aggressive? Run it back with some retreating bairs, wait for the attack, powershieldgrab. Or, if he is leaving you no options, cease the bairs altogether, and run away, shooting retreating fireballs if there is enough space between you two.
These are just some examples, and I'm not out to write a whole algorithm where "you do X to respond to Enemy Y's Z attack/Defense Pattern", because even then you aren't going to remember all of that. Know that a buffer can turn into a Fireball No-Zone game, a Tornado Mindgame, a F-Tilt hop off my balls spacing tool (according to Hippie), a grab to long ZOMG WIGI Flamboyant combo to taunt spike (ok, exaggeration). I'm thinking this aspect should come last, because once you learn all the individual techniques that we have/have not already mentioned, you have a means to put them all together now (which ties into mixing up your mind games, according to Locuan). Buffering doesn't really add anything new to the table, it just speeds up Luigi, because he is kind of slowish IMO.
There is a lot left to the Buffering game; it's so simple, but can be used in so many ways (kind of like play-doh) that newcomers neglect in their attempts to hunt for the uber Luigi AT WaveDash/Lag Cancel/Infinite Cape. The Boards should record popular instances of characters we have problems approaching, and we'll outline them there. From there, you can either form your own opinions and strats for characters not mentioned, or at least get an idea for using the versatility of your moves (Fireball/tornado/F-Tilt/Dsmash/others not yet discussed).
VIDEOS ARE HERE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5gQC89Xxpg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRb4I3S9qg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5SNQv7IwuU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE5alLjCySk&feature=related
I am not doing it perfectly, and again, you don't HAVE to air dodge to buffer, I just made these videos before Luigi Cancel was disproved. Even so, I still am gonna air dodge into buffers, it seems more consistent IMO.
Version History
Note: This thread will be updated per the contributions of others as well as myself, anything on this thread is subject to change.
Version 1.0 (August 28, 2008): Thread released
Version 1.1 (August 28, 2008): Minor notes on application, new video and quote from Boss.
Version 1.2 (August 29, 2008): Buffered tornado added to application list. New section and howto on ShffLC added (thanks to faith keeper for the guide).
Version 1.3 (August 30, 2008): Changed guide from a Luigi Cancel one to a simple Move Buffer one, added some videos, made some corrections to accommodate the the changes.[/QUOTE]
Version 1.4 (November 2, 2008): Some clean up, Jab, ftilt, and uptilted fsmash added, more to come later.
Version 1.5 (February 17, 2009): Raw Mindgames section added. Taken right from backroom...so merits some changes/revisions...Another Time.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qt53flmF2m0
A great match from Boss that shows some Buffering Shorthopped Dairs, i don't remember the times, but you will want to watch the whole thing anyway ;].
If you watch the video, you basically see Boss shorthopping a dair, hitting the shield button (usually L or R) and quickly shorthopping into another aerial. I use Brawl's buffering system; a button input system that allows you to do different moves while in the animation of a move already. I'll explain this in application...
Luigi does a Shorthopped Dair and immediately does an air dodge right before he hits the ground. When he does this, he has virtually no lag and ends up in his standing animation. I want to explain the buffering system with this situation. (Note: I use the cstick for smashes). When you press shield to buffer, you can input another move during the air dodge animation. By doing this, the game will initiate the move you inputted as soon as you buffer. It sounds confusing but basically:
As soon as Luigi hits the ground, he will immediately do the next move. So if i do a downsmash while air dodging, i'll quickly do a dsmash the first frame possible. This can be done with almost any move, and you know you are doing it right when you see Luigi initiate his next move immediately after hitting the ground. Yes i know this is basically explaining how Buffering was used in Melee all over again, but i felt the need to explain.
Useful Combinations
With this said, i found several tricks you can do that utilize the Buffering System. Note: You don't HAVE to do an air dodge to buffer into a different move, I've been told you can just do it after Luigi hits the ground, but typically only after a dair or fair. When i refer to cancel, I am referring to auto canceling.
...into a dsmash: Not only can you do this move immediately out of the cancel, but you can slide a little a bit with this move for added range.
...into a fireball: Situational, but at mid range can halt an advancing enemy long enough to approach with another move. I do empty short hops into a canceled fireball and mix it up with a shorthopped fireball into a second fireball to throw the enemy off, especially when dodging my projectiles.
...into an fsmash/Upsmash: Self- explanatory, use this to quickly finish off an opponent if they are within range. An efficient, yet difficult application is airdodging to cancel your lag while evading an attack. If you are about to get with the last few frames of an enemy smash, its possible to buffer while just barely dodging the attack. If your enemy has moderate-heavy lag after their attack, they can quickly be punished with a smash. (I'll make a video later showing this, but i have a hard time timing it right).
EDIT: While its a little bit harder to land, an Up-Angled Fsmash is also VERY useful. In a point where Luigi mainers are putting more focus on the Fsmash, this and Jab buffers are essential for a great Luigi.
...into a dtilt: A quick trip to set up further combos, such as a jab jab cancel into a smash, or a simple dtilt into upB. NOTE: On high %'s the dtilt knocks Mario straight up, leaving him wide open for an attack, but only at >100% from what i've seen. If anyone can give me more information on further characters that react like that, it would help out.
...into a grab: Also self-explanatory, this works very well if you do a two hit jab combo into it, as most people expect you to do an UpB.
...into a shield: Albeit not really being buffered from the L cancel, its still a viable option if your opponent has gotten wise to your attacks. Space this properly and you can slide with the impact of their attack on your shield. Yes, i'm promoting Luigi's poor traction, as its often over looked by luigi mainers. By using his traction, you can literally slide yourself out of tough situations, i'll discuss further applications about this in later posts.
...into a dash attack: Another taboo of the Luigi game, the dash attack. I also have a lot to say about this move as well, but for now i can tell you i use it to confuse my opponent who is about to react offensively to Luigi. It cancels out a fair amount of attacks (i don't have hard data on this), and if spaced right, can lock the enemy in. I find this also useful in pushing the enemy off stage, as the dash attack as higher knockback on the last hit.
...into a tornado (Credit to Faithkeeper on this one, I forgot to add it): Buffering a tornado works well out of a cancel to attack the enemy with, as long as you hit the fireball while rising in the shorthop (otherwise you can't buffer). This works as an improvement of the application to the standard short hop>tornado, as its buffered now and much faster. Very useful for approaching.
...as a taunt: Yeah, Hippiedude92 brought this up I thought...well its an application isn't it xD. It is pretty nostalgic though to do some canceled dairs while waiting for your opponent's next stock.
...mindgames: All this stuff adds up into confusing your opponent. One thing Luigi has because of the poor attendance in tournaments is the possibility for the biggest shock factor. Come into a tournament pulling off some crazy fast canceled moves and you are sure to surprise your opponent, who by the time they adjust to Luigi's broad range of options, may already have lost the match.
...into a jab: THIS ONE IS SUPER DUPER IMPORTANT PLEASE DO IT ALL THE TIME KTHXBIE. Anyways, this move is insanely fast and is great for Jab Grabs or general set ups into smash attacks. I can't believe I neglected to use this enough...Its almost impossible to punish because it is so dang fast, so use that to your advantage.
...into an ftilt: This one is as widely used as others, but its a great spacing device because it comes out fairly quickly. Shield pokage when angled downwards? I need to test this one out.
2. Generally, i use the buffer into aerials, to quickly cover the field and be aggressive towards my opponent. I suggest any Luigi not buffering out of everything possible to start doing so now: it gives you a wealth of options at a moment's notice. It makes Luigi faster, and it allows a broader definition of Luigi's game, which can branch out to subsequent new styles of play.
Conclusion
I wrote this with hopes of kindling ideas on the boards. My biggest problem with people, is that they tend to leave out moves in a character's moveset because they aren't "useful". In Luigi's case, i am talking about his ftilt, dash attack, and on a side note, his physics.
I honestly don't find any move of Luigi's ia bad, and i try to use them all in different ways. His traction is what makes him unique, and should be used as an advantage against characters who don't slide so much. I know I left things out, and there are plenty of things i haven't even touched on. I am not a Luigi master, i am only a Luigi Mainer. If people comment to this thread and say they have learned something, i'll be happy. If people comment to this thread and teach me something, i'll be happy. If people don't have anything to say, but ask questions of others, i'll be happy. I play Super Smash Bros to have fun, and my definition of fun is trying to figure out how to use my character to his ultimate potential.
Mindgames
Buffering, from the way I see it, is the glue to Luigi. There is nothing special about Buffering; as in, there is nothing about Buffering that is unique to him as a character as opposed to others. I second Kirby; I buffer with him. I play as fox; I buffer as him. No matter who you play as, buffering is a gift of speed to any character; it remains one of the few exploits in the Smash series that players behind the casual level can go to in order to improve their game. If you don't do it, do it. Go in training mode, and buffer buffer buffer (I assume that since this is the backroom, we all know what a buffer is and what options are available to Luigi when he does it, (Buffer guide available in TOC).
I call this glue because it keeps everything together in Luigi's game. The general consensus is that Luigi is an aerial approach artist (whatever approaching means to Luigi), but since he is a non-floaty he is bound to the ground much like any other character. Let's take a staple approach; the bair (which is listed as a means of approach per Locuan's list, which I stress we don't forget about).
Ok, great. We use Luigi as another no-zone, with less range than our prime example of stage domination: Fireball. Honestly, this approach only works on a ruffled opponent. By ruffled, I mean an opponent who has been a in a heated "phase" of battle (I don't know how else to say it in English, in my language "phasa" is a like a scene, but that applies to movies ><). What I am getting at is, Bair is not a good approach right at the start of battle because it's easily predicable and shield grabbable (I know from being on both ends of the grab).
What you can do with bair, is play an aggressive space cadet with it (Yes I have weird names, bite me). What's the difference between aggressive spacing and actual attacking? Well it's pretty obvious from the names; one you attack, the other you space.
Wow I go off on a tangent with this stuff, I'm going form buffering to spacing, hopefully I'll tie this all up soon. In order to space correctly, you need to know how far of a range your opponent has. In the first few weeks of brawl, I sampled every character to test their "range" and any moves to watch out for (I called it when I said Snake's Utilt will cause problem xP). A well spaced bair definition would be a Bair that does damage but doesn't leave Luigi up for punishment either. Bairs are quick and easy to throw out, but you may not always be in a situation for a well spaced Bair. The important thing to keep in mind is that your priority in Brawl is avoid damage, NOT deal damage.
So how does Buffering apply? Well since we already know that it allows us to get in our moves faster, we take advantage of that. At any given instance between Bairs, you have the option to buffer almost ANYTHING you want. That's extremely versatile; the ability to sneak in moves quickly with a reduced risk of punishment. Are you fighting an enemy a stationary enemy that powershields all your attacks? buffer a grab and (insert Luigi Combo here). An enemy that retreats form your aggressive Bairs? Push him off the stage with a quick Ftilt (yes, there are uses for that move). An enemy that is aggressive? Run it back with some retreating bairs, wait for the attack, powershieldgrab. Or, if he is leaving you no options, cease the bairs altogether, and run away, shooting retreating fireballs if there is enough space between you two.
These are just some examples, and I'm not out to write a whole algorithm where "you do X to respond to Enemy Y's Z attack/Defense Pattern", because even then you aren't going to remember all of that. Know that a buffer can turn into a Fireball No-Zone game, a Tornado Mindgame, a F-Tilt hop off my balls spacing tool (according to Hippie), a grab to long ZOMG WIGI Flamboyant combo to taunt spike (ok, exaggeration). I'm thinking this aspect should come last, because once you learn all the individual techniques that we have/have not already mentioned, you have a means to put them all together now (which ties into mixing up your mind games, according to Locuan). Buffering doesn't really add anything new to the table, it just speeds up Luigi, because he is kind of slowish IMO.
There is a lot left to the Buffering game; it's so simple, but can be used in so many ways (kind of like play-doh) that newcomers neglect in their attempts to hunt for the uber Luigi AT WaveDash/Lag Cancel/Infinite Cape. The Boards should record popular instances of characters we have problems approaching, and we'll outline them there. From there, you can either form your own opinions and strats for characters not mentioned, or at least get an idea for using the versatility of your moves (Fireball/tornado/F-Tilt/Dsmash/others not yet discussed).
VIDEOS ARE HERE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i5gQC89Xxpg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_BRb4I3S9qg&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5SNQv7IwuU&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE5alLjCySk&feature=related
I am not doing it perfectly, and again, you don't HAVE to air dodge to buffer, I just made these videos before Luigi Cancel was disproved. Even so, I still am gonna air dodge into buffers, it seems more consistent IMO.
Version History
Note: This thread will be updated per the contributions of others as well as myself, anything on this thread is subject to change.
Version 1.0 (August 28, 2008): Thread released
Version 1.1 (August 28, 2008): Minor notes on application, new video and quote from Boss.
Version 1.2 (August 29, 2008): Buffered tornado added to application list. New section and howto on ShffLC added (thanks to faith keeper for the guide).
Version 1.3 (August 30, 2008): Changed guide from a Luigi Cancel one to a simple Move Buffer one, added some videos, made some corrections to accommodate the the changes.[/QUOTE]
Version 1.4 (November 2, 2008): Some clean up, Jab, ftilt, and uptilted fsmash added, more to come later.
Version 1.5 (February 17, 2009): Raw Mindgames section added. Taken right from backroom...so merits some changes/revisions...Another Time.
