Lucina Moveset Data & Analysis Thread

[C.J.]

From what I've been told

Crescent Slash has a "sweet spot" at the top of the attack and allows you retain more horizontal mobility after using it allowing for it to be a combo-ender and to drift back to the stage allowing for potential killing combos offfstage

 

[HdTyvek]

From what I've been told

Crescent Slash has a "sweet spot" at the top of the attack and allows you retain more horizontal mobility after using it allowing for it to be a combo-ender and to drift back to the stage allowing for potential killing combos offfstage

it also seemed to do alot of % and good knockback. Kill move?

 

[C.J.]

I was told it does ~12%

And I wouldn't say it's a kill move considering how "raw" it'd have to be to hit that spot if it wasn't out of a combo. So it might kill, but I'd say it's a combo-ending move, not a kill move (basically a semantic difference but w/e)

 

[HdTyvek]

just a thought i had running through my head watching a few people play her. it kind of sucks having all these ideas and not being able to experiment myself.... OH WELL. its only a few weeks away

 

[Shao-tan]

From what I've been told

Crescent Slash has a "sweet spot" at the top of the attack and allows you retain more horizontal mobility after using it allowing for it to be a combo-ender and to drift back to the stage allowing for potential killing combos offfstage

Oh, I tried to sweetspot on the usual spot but I guess I was wrong. I'll try it right now.

I recorded Iai counter and regular counter in half-speed, but the recording is too shaky / messy to draw any conclusion, but I went frame by frame and they look the same. Maybe someone here can draw a better conclusion.

Iai counter

Regular counter

It's also worth taking note that I shouldn't record with a handcam on FD.

 

[Jilluciphi42]

The animation seems about the same length but it looks like she's flashing longer in her regular counter, which I'm assuming means that there is a larger window for countering in regular counter, as you said earlier.

 

[C.J.]

It is admittedly what I've been told so tyvm for double checking, Shao-tan.

Related: Shao, if you have skype can you PM me your screenname?

 

[Shao-tan]

It is admittedly what I've been told so tyvm for double checking, Shao-tan.

Related: Shao, if you have skype can you PM me your screenname?

Done. About Crescent Slash, yeah, I can confirm it works exactly as you described. Its sweetspot does 12% and KOs around 140%, might be useful for combos.

edit:

I uploaded a few of her moves to gfycat, although some of them were over 22 seconds and gfycat apparently only accept 15 seconds or less, so I'll have to record again.

Spoiler

Iai counter hitting

Easy Combination

Dolphin High Jump

Heavy Combination

Easy Counter

Storm Thrust

Assault Dash

Crescent Slash

Also a comparison between Marth and Lucina's initial dash animation.

 

[PalmtopTiger]

I'm keepin this thread on hand. Thanks its very helpful <3

 

[Xyro77]

So glad I'm keeping custom moves restricted to side events.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Shao-Tan is the man.

This is all really helpful.

 

[C.J.]

Ty again @ Shao-tan

 

[LIQUID12A]

I uploaded a few of her moves to gfycat, although some of them were over 22 seconds and gfycat apparently only accept 15 seconds or less, so I'll have to record again.

Storm Thrust looks like an interesting poking tool. It appears to have a reach of 2 characters, if I'm not mistaken.

How fast does Assault Dash recover so as to act out of it? Imagine dashing for a grab.

 

[Pegasus Knight]

Those custom moves made me even more interested in playing Lucina. Thanks, Shao-tan!

 

[Shadowknight1]

So glad I'm keeping custom moves restricted to side events.

Why? Custom moves can help differentiate clones like Lucina!

 

[Shao-tan]

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out elsewhere, but Dolphin Slash definitely has invulnerability frames on startup, as I'm consistently able to get out of Rosalina and Palutena's jab.

 

[LIQUID12A]

I'm not sure if it's been pointed out elsewhere, but Dolphin Slash definitely has invulnerability frames on startup, as I'm consistently able to get out of Rosalina and Palutena's jab.

Is this exclusive to Lucina here?

 

[Shao-tan]

Is this exclusive to Lucina here?

Marth can do it as well.

 

[Ffamran]

Why? Custom moves can help differentiate clones like Lucina!

The funny thing is why didn't Lucina's Specials use custom moves instead and have the "Marth" moves be customs?

 

[Ogopogo]

"Down Air. A downward swing from back to front. Can spike with the tip."

Hm. Well, I was wondering how her dair without a tip. This is the best way for it to work (a full spike along the blade would be near a falco dair level of crazy, and a meteor wouldn't be that great [unless if there's no meteor cancelling which could also be true]) but I didn't think Lucina would break her own rules.

 

[AsinineProfessor]

Thanks for the info Katakiri! Can't wait to get my hands on the game in less than a month.

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Done. About Crescent Slash, yeah, I can confirm it works exactly as you described. Its sweetspot does 12% and KOs around 140%, might be useful for combos.

edit:

I uploaded a few of her moves to gfycat, although some of them were over 22 seconds and gfycat apparently only accept 15 seconds or less, so I'll have to record again.

Spoiler

Iai counter hitting

Easy Combination

Dolphin High Jump

Heavy Combination

Easy Counter

Storm Thrust

Assault Dash

Crescent Slash

Also a comparison between Marth and Lucina's initial dash animation.

Wow! Assault dash looks awesome, even if it doesn't seem to do much damage. Lots of mobility, decently fast! And it just looks cool. Easy Counter may be good as well; even if it doesn't sound like it does as much damage, it will grant you long protection which can be very useful in certain situations (such as using it in the air to help you reach the ground without being hit or when trying to grab the edge)

 

[Kosaki]

Hi, Up Throw can kill around 140% for an average character. Saw that on ZeRo's stream, he killed with Marth's Uthrow though, but it shouldn't be different for Lucina.
Can someone test and confirm that ?

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

I'm slowly getting the impression that she'll play similar to melee marth + dancing blade.

At least, as melee marth-esque as you get can in smash 4.

Marth might be a bit more defensive purely because Marth mains are going to be spacing more than Lucina. Both should space - spacing is good and key - but Marth mains will be doing it more because of A) the tip incentive, and B) less comfort in up-close combat.

To top off these predictions, I'm going to say that both are going to be fairly interchangeable at the competitive level and in close match ups, one will be preferred over the other on a case-by-case basis. Marth will have the overall advantage. Both will be used.

I dub them "The Falchion Duo."

 

[Yoshi Kirishima]

Hi, Up Throw can kill around 140% for an average character. Saw that on ZeRo's stream, he killed with Marth's Uthrow though, but it shouldn't be different for Lucina.
Can someone test and confirm that ?

Against a character ( I forget who ) I remember seeing Marth's up throw almost killed in the 180s, and probably would have killed at about 190. Which isn't too far from Brawl actually. Maybe his up throw was even slightly stale, not sure.

If it's closer to 140 then that's great!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Shao-tan record all moves so we can see range and recovery plz. thank you. Tilts, aerials, etc.

 

[slimjim]

Thanks for all the data for theoreticians like me to analyze! : )
Now does Lucina's dash move quicker than marth's either in acceleration or velocity? It seemed like it from Zero's playtesting. If they are the exact same in that matter as well as everything else, I can't see her having any reason to be played over Marth besides being newer, cooler, and more attractive.

 

[Articablack]

So I noticed that certain moves don't have landing lag (yay) but does she in general avoid landing lag all together? Like does her Up-B have any landing lag?

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

So I noticed that certain moves don't have landing lag (yay) but does she in general avoid landing lag all together? Like does her Up-B have any landing lag?

If I'm not mistaken, it was mentioned that she has bad landing lag from dair. I don't know about upB though.

 

[grandmaster192]

Has anyone tested so see if Lucina has more shield stun than Marth? I'm wondering if she's going to safer on shield than Marth is.

 

[Articablack]

If I'm not mistaken, it was mentioned that she has bad landing lag from dair. I don't know about upB though.

Ah, thanks. I suppose that shouldn't mess my game up too much seeing how I'd only use d-air to spike.

 

[Circa]

Thanks for all the data for theoreticians like me to analyze! : )
Now does Lucina's dash move quicker than marth's either in acceleration or velocity? It seemed like it from Zero's playtesting. If they are the exact same in that matter as well as everything else, I can't see her having any reason to be played over Marth besides being newer, cooler, and more attractive.

Looking at Shao-tan's dash gifs simultaneously tells me their dashes are exactly the same...unless I'm missing something in what you're asking for?

Even though she's lacking some changes I was hoping for (I mostly just wanted her to be a faster, weaker Marth), I know that just lacking the tipper is a good enough reason for me to play her. I enjoy mixing up my timing and spacing as much as I can, and she won't make me suffer as badly as Marth will for doing so.

There's a chance they've messed with her knockback and trajectory for some moves, too. I haven't seen any footage to support it, but it would make sense. Having slightly higher damage without increased knockback would make her just straight-out worse at most things. She would end up...Roy-ish. Not that I put it beyond them to do that again, either.

 

[lanbobyonson]

Definitely keeping my eye on this thread. From what I've seen Lucina looks really good. I saw up smash's hitbox is a bit better and killed Shiek at 76% (92% after the hit) from the platform off the top of brawl yoshi's. Her playstyle seems to suit me. To me she's everything I wish Marth was. Only thing I wish she had was Marth's grab game, but it seems her grabs send people too far away to combo. I'm glad she was added and I'm glad she's a clone too because I love Marth's moveset (except dsmash I mean honestly who in their right mind would attack anyone like that in real combat) I just didn't like his feel. That and messing with hitboxes on clones just ruins them i.e. YL dair and Roy dair...Definitely gonna be playing that Cordelia color Lucina, looks a bit like Mitsuru from Persona 3 too, makes me so happy.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Has anyone tested so see if Lucina has more shield stun than Marth? I'm wondering if she's going to safer on shield than Marth is.

Impossible since tipper adds shield stun AND shield pushback.

At the highest level Marth is safer.

 

[Enigma14]

I wish that her spinning trick from Two Falchions is a custom move.

Of course, as she's a Marth clone, unlikely.

Don't forget her version of Aether could have been a Final Smash with Healing property.

 

[grandmaster192]

Impossible since tipper adds shield stun AND shield pushback.

At the highest level Marth is safer.

At a distance, no doubt Marth will be safer. But I'm talking less about poking and more about actual shield pressure and things like cross up aerials. If the inside of her sword is significantly better than Marth's, it's something to think about and test.

 

[A2ZOMG]

At a distance, no doubt Marth will be safer. But I'm talking less about poking and more about actual shield pressure and things like cross up aerials. If the inside of her sword is significantly better than Marth's, it's something to think about and test.

Extremely unlikely unless the shieldstun and frame advantage formula changed drastically. Keeping in mind that shield stun is directly correlated with damage on hit in the previous games.

 

[Kosaki]

Shield stun is meh in Smash 4 anyway.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Funny, because being able to hit a shield safely is a huge part of what makes a character strong in every smash game after 64.

That said, one thing of interest is that when Marth tippers his own shield hit recovery is increased. This is most likely to keep him from having alot of true frame traps and moves that are plus on block.

Lucina probably has better shield stun than Marths non-tipper attacks without the shield hit recovery of the tipper. This could make her pressure a bit tighter indeed.

The question is will it be tight enough to warrant playing her over her ancestor?

 

[Articablack]

Don't forget her version of Aether could have been a Final Smash with Healing property.

I would have LOVED if they did something like that.