Lucina Moveset Data & Analysis Thread

[Robertman2]

So Lucina's custom moves are the exact same as Marth, right?
Are there any other differences?

Sorry, I'm a bit slow.

Yes, and I'm not sure.

 

[Emblem Lord]

They are the same in everyway aside from extra damage and knockback that Marth gets from tippers.

 

[Coq1]

just read your tips and took it online, I've been doing quite good

 

[InfinityCollision]

I've found up dancing blade to be the best. It's a lot easier to combo the up hits than it is the side hits so it's much more consistent. The forwards dancing blade is good for catching enemies that are trying to retreat from you. I'm finding the downwards dancing blade to be extremely hard to combo though and haven't found any real applications for it yet.

Down angled DB is your best option if they shield the first hit, as it's fast and the angles on the last two hits are favorable for shield poking. Side3 might beat down3 for this application though - it was the faster option in the past, but I'm not sure if that still holds true.

I'm also unsure as to whether down3 still spikes/meteors as it did in the past. I've heard it can but haven't seen anything to corroborate that.

 

[LIQUID12A]

Down angled DB is your best option if they shield the first hit, as it's fast and the angles on the last two hits are favorable for shield poking. Side3 might beat down3 for this application though - it was the faster option in the past, but I'm not sure if that still holds true.

I'm also unsure as to whether down3 still spikes/meteors as it did in the past. I've heard it can but haven't seen anything to corroborate that.

I honestly find them useful not for shield poking, but mix ups and ledge games. Side and down DB are the better ones for edge guarding in my experience, and up DB is better for potential air mixups. I've confused quite a few counter-less opponents with that alone.

This is just me, though, I could be entirely wrong.

 

[Tribute]

Im having a really hard time getting the timing for heavy db, I cant get past the second swing

 

[MLSword]

GUYS LUCINA CAN KEN COMBO!!! I am not sure of the exact percent I started it, but it was indeed a Ken Combo. I haven't seen anyone say that Lucina can Ken Combo so I guess this is appropriate. Also, if you want to know the char. I did it to it was Bowser. The stage was Final Destination Corneria.

 

[Moydow]

I just tried against Bowser with 80% damage in Training mode, and yes, it was a Ken combo. Any lower than 80% and he kept up-B'ing away before I could land the spike.
I did notice while messing around that pivoting into b-air seems to cause enough hitstun to land the spike more easily at around 70% (but then it's not a by-definition Ken combo ).

 

[MLSword]

Ok since getting home, I have tested Lucina Ken Comboing Bowser. So far, here is the percent range for when she can Ken Combo Bowser: 70%- 95% It is MUCH easier to Ken Combo around the 70-75% mark then later percents though.

 

[InfinityCollision]

I honestly find them useful not for shield poking, but mix ups and ledge games. Side and down DB are the better ones for edge guarding in my experience, and up DB is better for potential air mixups. I've confused quite a few counter-less opponents with that alone.

This is just me, though, I could be entirely wrong.

You could just dtilt them from the ledge instead. Less setup, safer, more effective (unless it does meteor?). They're ok as aerial mixups, but my go-to use for side/up variations is as a punish tool, choosing the next hit based on character/percent/VI.

 

[MLSword]

Well was messing with training mode this morning AND LUCINA CAN KEN COMBO ROB!!!!! I yet again do not remember the exact percent, but I will be testing when I get home from school like how I did with Bowser. I will also be testing other chars. as well today I think to see who else Lucina can Ken Combo. SO so far: Bowser and Rob. Bowser being able to be Ken Combo'ed from 70-95%. I might make a post with a list of who all she can Ken Combo soon. So glad Lucina can Ken Combo in this game, keeping the old tradition alive :D

EDIT: Just got back from school, and found 3 more chars. who can be Ken Combo'ed: DK, Shulk, and Wario. Also, not 100% sure, but I think that CF may not be able to be Ken Combo'ed whatsoever. Testing testing testing, always testing- Lucina can Ken Combo Lucina!

 

[Krysco]

Well was messing with training mode this morning AND LUCINA CAN KEN COMBO ROB!!!!! I yet again do not remember the exact percent, but I will be testing when I get home from school like how I did with Bowser. I will also be testing other chars. as well today I think to see who else Lucina can Ken Combo. SO so far: Bowser and Rob. Bowser being able to be Ken Combo'ed from 70-95%. I might make a post with a list of who all she can Ken Combo soon. So glad Lucina can Ken Combo in this game, keeping the old tradition alive :D

EDIT: Just got back from school, and found 3 more chars. who can be Ken Combo'ed: DK, Shulk, and Wario. Also, not 100% sure, but I think that CF may not be able to be Ken Combo'ed whatsoever.

I haven't been able to pull off the Ken combo but then again I only tried it on Bowser and I'm probably missing something. Ken Comboing Shulk may be difficult since his properties change when he changes artes.

 

[MLSword]

I haven't been able to pull off the Ken combo but then again I only tried it on Bowser and I'm probably missing something. Ken Comboing Shulk may be difficult since his properties change when he changes artes.

I find Bowser easiest to Ken Combo around the 70% range. If you go lower then 69% then Bowser up b's out of the fair hitstun. It is hard to get the Ken Combo to be consistent(It will take a lot of skill in this game to Ken Combo), and did take me multiple tries to replicate several times. If you are using training mode, make sure to push Bowser to the edge before you attempt to Ken Combo. Hope this helped!

 

[Zelgius150]

So... I'm going to put up together in one post all the things I've read about Lucina in SmashBoards so far, so I can ask questions about it, and so I can read it all at once whenever I need it. I hope you can help me with a bit of advice


Starting with this same thread analysis, my most crucial doubt is that I don't know how you can achieve no landing lag for Lucina's fair, nair and uair. Katakiri said about fair that “it's difficult to punish because you can fade the attack and have no landing lag from a short hop”. What does he mean by “fading the attack”? I’ve tried to short hop to fair, but there is always landing lag, or at least it seems so to me. I also get shieldgrabbed a lot when I use it, but I suppose that’s because I still find it difficult to do a retreating fair, since I’ve to jump backwards BEFORE I fair, but only by a small margin. Or am I mistaken? As he says, it should be easier with a c-stick.

I also find it difficult to spike with dair. I can pull it off sometimes in training, but in actual battle I don’t think I’ve ever achieved it till now.

And what about the differences in fair and nair uses? Can’t short hop nair be a good approaching option too? Katakiri doesn’t write about nair so I don’t really know. From my limited experience, nair seems to be better when you’re crossing your opponent because it hits a wider area around Lucina, both in front and behind her. Any other particularities and differences?

I use uair mainly for juggling, I suppose there isn’t much more depth in that aerial.

If we move deeper on aerial uses, I’ve also read about doing a “full jump double fair” or “full jump fair and nair”. If I remember correctly, I read that you’ve to input fair just when you’re starting to jump, and do it again when you’re fast falling. But I find it almost impossible to fair after the fast fall. Maybe it’s another c-stickless issue?


About her smash attacks, Katakiri wrote that USmash is safer and better than Dsmash to attack both sides (punishing rolling opponents and so). It’s always that way? I sometimes find myself more comfortable using dsmash with a rolling opponent, but maybe it’s because I’m too used to unleash dsmashes with a rolling opponent since I’ve done it for years. Anyway, since I read that, I’ve started to use dsmash less. Are there really any situations where dsmash can be useful?


“Will tell opponents that shields are a no-go in any match-up against Lucina.” That’s what Katakiri said about Shield-breaker. I’ve found that I can, indeed, reduce my opponent’s shield to almost its limit by hitting it with a non-charged Shield-breaker, but I’ve also found that sometimes the shield takes no damage at all! Maybe it’s because I hit it with the tip? Maybe because there is barely contact? And how long do you have to charge it to fully break shields? Which are the best set ups for this moves? How can I do a pivot Shield-breaker?


Let’s go for Counter. I suppose that’s an special attack that improves your performance as you improve your playing skills. Reading when an opponent will attack and respond accordingly. Till now, I’ve mainly used it when trying to land after being sent flying (which is only useful when I use it JUST before the attack lands, and even then it seems that Lucina takes a determined time to prepare for the counter), or out of pure reflexes.

I also saw in a Lucina video posted here that it can be used to punish an opponent’s recovery below the ledge. And to stop gimps attempts.

Dancing Blade. I can more or less put it off in training, but it seems I have issues getting the timing when I play online, with the nerves of the battle. Any suggestion here?

Other questions about DB would be: is there any advantage to mix different directions for each and every move? What is the use of this move? I’ve been reading a thread about DB in Marth’s subforum today, and I’ve seen some pretty combos and follow-ups with non-full DB, but I’m wondering which uses full DB has.


And moving to the thows, I’ve read that her two most useful ones ar dhtow and upthrow. I can see that at low percents dthrow seems to be better to follow up and uthrow is better for juggling, but it also seems to me that the higher the percent, the lesser the difference. When I should use dthrow and upthrow at higher percents? Or I’m totally wrong from the start?



Well, I guess that’s all for now. I’ve been playing Smash since N64, but never really tried too hard, so I’m still noobish compared to most of you. I would also ask about thinks like reverse grab, pivoting, dash canceling thingies, gimp advices, etc., but that’s not the appropriate place I know I asked a lot of questions, and I don’t expect anyone to come and answer them all at once, at all. Any help will be very welcome :D Thank you.

 

[Ogopogo]

I can't see Lucina ever being better than Marth, besides the fact that she's Lucina.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Starting with this same thread analysis, my most crucial doubt is that I don't know how you can achieve no landing lag for Lucina's fair, nair and uair. Katakiri said about fair that “it's difficult to punish because you can fade the attack and have no landing lag from a short hop”. What does he mean by “fading the attack”? I’ve tried to short hop to fair, but there is always landing lag, or at least it seems so to me. I also get shieldgrabbed a lot when I use it, but I suppose that’s because I still find it difficult to do a retreating fair, since I’ve to jump backwards BEFORE I fair, but only by a small margin. Or am I mistaken? As he says, it should be easier with a c-stick.

Nair and uair have what's referred to as autocancel frames, meaning you can land with no more landing lag than as if you hadn't attacked at all provided you time it correctly. Fair doesn't have this (or at least not anywhere near its active frames), so the only way to get no landing lag with it is to use it early enough in the jump (basically right away for a short hop) that you're out of endlag by the time you land. Fade = fadeaway or retreating attack. You jump (standing or moving forward), execute the attack, then immediately hold backwards to reverse your momentum.

As mentioned elsewhere (and as you've noticed), short hop fair is not safe. Use it in a full hop on your way up and maneuver as necessary for safety (often but not necessarily retreating on block).

I also find it difficult to spike with dair. I can pull it off sometimes in training, but in actual battle I don’t think I’ve ever achieved it till now.

Dair only spikes at the very bottom of the arc now, beneath her feet.

And what about the differences in fair and nair uses? Can’t short hop nair be a good approaching option too? Katakiri doesn’t write about nair so I don’t really know. From my limited experience, nair seems to be better when you’re crossing your opponent because it hits a wider area around Lucina, both in front and behind her. Any other particularities and differences?

Short hop approaches are predictable since you have to attack as late as possible to make the hit reasonably safe, so it's something to be used with care. Falling nair can be a decent option, especially if you autocancel it so that you can follow up in a reasonably safe manner.

If we move deeper on aerial uses, I’ve also read about doing a “full jump double fair” or “full jump fair and nair”. If I remember correctly, I read that you’ve to input fair just when you’re starting to jump, and do it again when you’re fast falling. But I find it almost impossible to fair after the fast fall. Maybe it’s another c-stickless issue?

Just takes practice.

About her smash attacks, Katakiri wrote that USmash is safer and better than Dsmash to attack both sides (punishing rolling opponents and so). It’s always that way? I sometimes find myself more comfortable using dsmash with a rolling opponent, but maybe it’s because I’m too used to unleash dsmashes with a rolling opponent since I’ve done it for years. Anyway, since I read that, I’ve started to use dsmash less. Are there really any situations where dsmash can be useful?

Dsmash has a bit more range and the later back hit will sometimes catch rolls that usmash wouldn't depending on timing. That's about it.

“Will tell opponents that shields are a no-go in any match-up against Lucina.” That’s what Katakiri said about Shield-breaker. I’ve found that I can, indeed, reduce my opponent’s shield to almost its limit by hitting it with a non-charged Shield-breaker, but I’ve also found that sometimes the shield takes no damage at all! Maybe it’s because I hit it with the tip? Maybe because there is barely contact? And how long do you have to charge it to fully break shields? Which are the best set ups for this moves? How can I do a pivot Shield-breaker?

If they shielded just as you hit them, it's possible they perfect shielded it and thus took no shield damage, other than that, no idea. If you mean pivot out of a run then you can't. If you mean how to do a turnaround Shield Breaker, then you can press in the opposite direction within a very short window immediately after inputting the neutral B and it'll turn you around.

Let’s go for Counter. I suppose that’s an special attack that improves your performance as you improve your playing skills. Reading when an opponent will attack and respond accordingly. Till now, I’ve mainly used it when trying to land after being sent flying (which is only useful when I use it JUST before the attack lands, and even then it seems that Lucina takes a determined time to prepare for the counter), or out of pure reflexes.

Yes and no, because its value also varies with the skill of your opponent.

Dancing Blade. I can more or less put it off in training, but it seems I have issues getting the timing when I play online, with the nerves of the battle. Any suggestion here?

Patience mostly, and the realization that lag sometimes messes with the inputs. Bear in mind that the timing is different on hit vs when you miss.

Other questions about DB would be: is there any advantage to mix different directions for each and every move? What is the use of this move? I’ve been reading a thread about DB in Marth’s subforum today, and I’ve seen some pretty combos and follow-ups with non-full DB, but I’m wondering which uses full DB has.

DB is one of your go-to punish tools. It deals good damage, the different directions give you options to land the full sequence in most situations, and each of the four hits is treated as an individual hit in the stale move queue so it helps keep your other attacks fresh and effective.

Generally speaking one sequence or another will be most effective in a given situation, as they're all geared towards specific purposes. Up tends to be the most generally useful and down the least.

And moving to the thows, I’ve read that her two most useful ones ar dhtow and upthrow. I can see that at low percents dthrow seems to be better to follow up and uthrow is better for juggling, but it also seems to me that the higher the percent, the lesser the difference. When I should use dthrow and upthrow at higher percents? Or I’m totally wrong from the start?

They all have uses. Fthrow and bthrow are good ways to push your opponent offstage, dthrow is usually the most likely to yield followups onstage, and uthrow can set up at low percents, push the opponent into the air at mid percents, and potentially kill at very high percents (rare, but it's an option).

 

[Zelgius150]

Wow, just wow. Someone actually answered all of it at onces. Thanks a lot, InfinityColission

Nair and uair have what's referred to as autocancel frames, meaning you can land with no more landing lag than as if you hadn't attacked at all provided you time it correctly.

And which is the correct timing? I'm trying it in training just now. It's just a guess, but... maybe when you're about to land? I think so also because you say fair doesn't have that at least near its active frames. And it seems to me that I can fair with no landing lag if I use it so close to the floor that it's executed only partially. Am I right?

You jump (standing or moving forward), execute the attack, then immediately hold backwards to reverse your momentum.

Oh, I see, I was doing it moving backwards mid-air BEFORE fair. I suppose this is better for spacing, and retreating fairs to avoid being shieldgrabbed... but the retreating one also seems good for spacing.

Dair only spikes at the very bottom of the arc now, beneath her feet.

Yeah, Katakiri tip of "think of it like a disjointed stomp" was useful for being able to put it up in training mode and on-stage... I suppose I've to keep trying and trying until I fianlly get a hold of it.

Falling nair can be a decent option, especially if you autocancel it so that you can follow up in a reasonably safe manner.

Yeah, I've actually tried it Not sure if got the autocancel thought, I'll practice it once I'm sure on how to autocancel it.

If they shielded just as you hit them, it's possible they perfect shielded it and thus took no shield damage, other than that, no idea.

Yeah, it had to be that for sure. But then, it seems to me it's easier to perfect shield in Smash 4 than it was in previous games, ins't it?

If you mean pivot out of a run then you can't.

Oww...

Bear in mind that the timing is different on hit vs when you miss.

Gread advice!! I'm now trying it on Dedede and yeah, it's true. Pretty important, thank you.


That's all. Thank you a lot again!! :D

 

[Krysco]

Nair can be autocancelled? I can pull off a fair, bair and uair out of a shorthop without landing lag but nair always has it, granted it's not much but it's still there. The lag is small enough that I can follow up from it if only the first hit hits. For example: shff nair > dtilt > dash grab dthrow > fh bair > fair > fsmash/ftilt/dtilt. Doesn't seem like a true combo by any means and the ai has jumped right after the nair so even that part isn't guaranteed.

Speaking of nair, I randomly found that the second hit can hit someone on the top platform of Battlefield from a full hop. Sounds more useful than uair to me since it sends them towards the ledge as opposed to up.

 

[Locuan]

Not sure if this has been said before, but from the match-up thread regarding greninja's shuriken:

I am tending to agree on this as well. Additionally, do you know if Lucina's jabs can cancel out with shuriken? I am pretty sure you can't cancel the charged ones but the uncharged one's there is a possibility. If she cannot then that makes the match-up even harder for Lucina.

Yeah, Lucina's jab can cancel out everything aside from the FULLY charged one which just goes through and continues with the multihit. The short uncharged one can be difficult to time a jab for.

 

[Zelgius150]

Well, I'm still wondering how exactly I'm supposed to time nair, uair and bair to get no landing lag. Can anyone give me tips about that? Thank you

I'm still having issues using DB too. In training, I can pull it off without hitting my opponent, but when actually hitting, the timing becomes really difficult for me.

 

[Emblem Lord]

Nair has recovery when you SH it. Always

 

[Locuan]

Nair has recovery when you SH it. Always

Yep, 16 frames of landing lag. Along with the U-air they are the aerials with the least amount of landing lag.

I'm still having issues using DB too. In training, I can pull it off without hitting my opponent, but when actually hitting, the timing becomes really difficult for me.

Just be patient, do not try to button mash the dancing blade. I had the same difficulty at the beginning. Additionally, you don't have to finish the five hits of the dancing blade all the time. You can stop it after 1 or 2 hits to mind-game the opponent. If they dodge, you can punish that, if you predict they are mashing an attack to try and get out you can shield it and punish accordingly afterwards.

 

[Funkermonster]

I heard a Fully Charged Shield Breaker moves you forward, but whenever I do it I don't move forward at all. Why might that be?

 

[Ffamran]

I heard a Fully Charged Shield Breaker moves you forward, but whenever I do it I don't move forward at all. Why might that be?

I think this is an aerial-only property of Shield Breaker since Dancing Blade doesn't move Marth/Lucina much in the air in SSB4.

 

[Zelgius150]

Ok, now I'm really confused. Katakiri wrote that uair, bair and fair can have no landing lag.

Then InfinityColission told me that fair lack of landing lag can only be achieved by using it the moment you jump, and that with nair and uair you can land with no more landing lag than you would have if you hadn't attacked at all, provided you time it correctly.

Then Krysco said he can get no landing lag for uair, bair and fair, but not with nair...

Then Emblem Lord said that nair always has landing lag... and for what I've seen till now, he seems pretty reliable when it comes to Marth/Lucina. And then Locuan agreed with him.

Ah, I've another question that doesn't have to do with Lucina: how do you measure frames?

Just be patient, do not try to button mash the dancing blade. I had the same difficulty at the beginning. Additionally, you don't have to finish the five hits of the dancing blade all the time. You can stop it after 1 or 2 hits to mind-game the opponent. If they dodge, you can punish that, if you predict they are mashing an attack to try and get out you can shield it and punish accordingly afterwards.

Well, for now I only use the first hit on air to confuse the opponent, and to follow up with a fair or a nair. It also seems to me that I can short hop forward, use the first hit of DB, then nair near the ground and rapidly use an smash attack. So maybe nair only gets less landing lag if you use it when you're about to land?

And yeah, I suppose I still don't play calmly enough to reliably pull of all DB in battle. Even in training I struggle to do it when hitting the opponent.

@ Funkermonster , yeah, I can confirm it, Shield Breaker moves you forward if you charge it entirely on the air. But personally, I found it pretty difficult to do it when you're out of stage, since it takes a while to charge. I suppose that you have to do it just after DI or whatever is called. I should check some Lucina and Marth videos posted here.

 

[InfinityCollision]

Then InfinityColission told me that fair lack of landing lag can only be achieved by using it the moment you jump, and that with nair and uair you can land with no more landing lag than you would have if you hadn't attacked at all, provided you time it correctly.

Fair has no landing lag when full hopped or short hopped (but not SHFF'd) because our short hop lasts just barely longer than fair's animation. You can also do this with uair, as it autocancels on approximately the same frame. Bair can be autocanceled slightly sooner, while nair and especially dair end very late (and dair has very high landing lag).

I was previously under the impression that uair and nair had autocancel frames timed at least somewhat close to their active frames, but this is not the case. This is rather unfortunate for us because it means we're stuck with at minimum 15 frames of endlag on any aerial used in an air-to-ground transition (ie you hit an opponent on/near the ground while falling). Fair and to a lesser extent nair were solid options in previous games, but it appears they're unsafe on block now - definitely so for Lucina and I believe that's also the case for Marth's tippers.

 

[Locuan]

Ah, I've another question that doesn't have to do with Lucina: how do you measure frames?

Basically, you need some sort of capture device. For the 3DS this usually means modding it with a capture board (I'm not really familiar with 3DS stuff). If it's a console, then you can use capture cards, like a Dazzle one for instance. Additionally, you need to know at what frame rate the game runs. In this case, Smash 4 runs at 60 frames per second (fps). Therefore, you would set up your capture card to record at that same frame rate. Then you start your system, game, capture card and record. Go into training mode, perform each move individually after a set amount of time or w/e method you which to use. Afterwards, you go into a video editing software that allows you to go through the film by frames. Imagine video is as a sequence of images taken really fast. If the video is 60 fps then that means there are 60 individual photos in one second. Anyways, back to answering your question. You would edit your video into small portions probably where each portion contained one move. From that you would proceed to analyze each clip. As soon as you see the move begin, you would consider this frame 1 and as soon as the move ends that would be your end frame.

I have never really done frame analysis before regarding games. Therefore, I do not know if this is the correct process for that. However, I have done a lot of video editing in the past. So it gives me a general idea of how it should work. If I made any mistakes feel free to correct me, especially if you are more knowledgeable on the subject.

 

[Zelgius150]

Very well, let's see.

-Tried Fair with short hop and full hop, and then tried to input fsmash, usmash, dsmash, DB and shieldbreaker immediately after landing. It seems to me that I can only do it if I fair as soon as I jump, the sooner the better, specially for the short hop. Am I right? I also find it easier to do if I move a bit forward or backwards after jumping.

-I tried the same with Uair, and as Infinity Colission said, it seems to be similar to fair in that regard.

-I also noticed the difference when it comes to nair. But.. it's just me or you can cancel nair if you use it when you're just about to land?

-Dair is hopeless. But it has less ending and landing lag than it has in previous games, isn't that so?

Anyway, whenever I used Marth in previous games I used aerials a lot. Maybe now they're worse? Maybe I should focus more of what you call "neutral game", I suppose I've to be patient playing with Lucina.

EDIT: I almost forgot about the frames. I get how people measure frames (and no I'm not more knowledgeable than you on the subject), but then, when people are playing they can't take them into account, right? I suppose people just know when to input each an every move so they get the least penalty. And that's... impressive.

 

[Locuan]

@ Zelgius150
Just short hop and Fair or perform an aerial a Fair as quickly as you can and you will be able to auto-cancel. Anyways, I made these gifs so you can see the difference. Ignore the level 1 Marth in the background doing random moves.

Fair, Bair, Uair, and Regular Nair and Dair are all performed from a short hop.

Fair, Bair, and Uair:

Spoiler

WRONG
Regular Fair

Auto-cancelled Fair

Regular Uair

Auto-cancelled Uair

Regular Bair

Auto-cancelled Bair

Nair and Dair:
Regular Nair

Full-hop Nair

Regular Dair

Full-Hop Dair

Can you see the difference between them? Look at the landing animation for both you can clearly see the difference. On the regular landing animation, Lucina looks like she is bending her knees even more than on the auto-cancelled ones.

Side Note: I would spoiler tag the images to consume space, but the editor is messing everything up.
EDIT: So apparently, the Fair does not auto-cancel. Then a question what is the clear difference I feel in game between the lag between both? At least it feels that way.

 

[Zelgius150]

Yeah, now I see it clearly! I was right to think that I had to input the aerials as soon as possible. That way, by the time you land, the aerials have already ended. And that's because Lucina's short hop takes a while to complete, as someone said here. And now I can also crearly see that nair can't be canceled from a short hop at all.

Thank you very much, Locuan! At least I can use Lucina's aerials well. You took your time to help me, I'm grateful

 

[Kosaki]

To have a better view of the whole landing lag, press the sheild button and wait for it to show up after landing lag.

 

[Zelgius150]

Yeah, the shield "trick" is very useful, thanks!

By the way, do you think Lucina's aerials are good to defend herself when she's out of the stage. I'm still pretty noob when it comes to edge returning and edgeguard. With Lucina, I do what Katakiri said and try to save my second jump and recover low, but when I'm still high opponents tend to gimp be, and as I always Counter in those cases, those who know me just jump, wait until I Counter and smack me out. I should try to do aerials instead. Maybe Fair and Nair? Maybe the first hit of DB too.

 

[Sheddy]

hi new to the Lucina forum (as you can tell by my Shulkle profile I mainly was in the Shulk forums) but anyways I was wondering is their a sweetspot for shield breaker for Lucina I know she does not have them like Marth but when I play as her it seems like if I use it to close o someone shielding it does next to nothing to its shield

 

[Captain Norris]

From what I have tested in training, Lucina can true combo at low percents with up air. I was able to successfully get a combo chain of two with short hopping up air into upsmash, up tilt, or neutral a. Sorry if this was already known. Maybe it can be chained into a string.

 

[Diana's Safe Landing]

hi new to the Lucina forum (as you can tell by my Shulkle profile I mainly was in the Shulk forums) but anyways I was wondering is their a sweetspot for shield breaker for Lucina I know she does not have them like Marth but when I play as her it seems like if I use it to close o someone shielding it does next to nothing to its shield

They powershielded it, powershields take no shield damage. Really blows when you hard read with shield breaker and you hit them in the small powersheild window that gives you no reward.

Also, what methods has everyone been using to connect with SH Uair? Rarely do I get in any situations where something combos into SH Uair, which is unfortuante because hitting with uair does seem to combo into other moves. The only success I've had is using short hop -> instant air dodge -> uair as an approach mix up. The air dodge short hop isnt a terrible neutral option since you wont get landing lag from it and have time to ariel/jump before you land but I would love to know better ways to connect with uair if anyone has them.

 

[Opana]

Anyone else use jumping Dancing Blade's first hit into utilt? I believe it's ecapeable, but I've been able to link that a few times in a row, the DB to utilt hit.

 

[CandyCakes]

She imo seems better than marth

 

[demmko]

Yeah, the shield "trick" is very useful, thanks!

By the way, do you think Lucina's aerials are good to defend herself when she's out of the stage. I'm still pretty noob when it comes to edge returning and edgeguard. With Lucina, I do what Katakiri said and try to save my second jump and recover low, but when I'm still high opponents tend to gimp be, and as I always Counter in those cases, those who know me just jump, wait until I Counter and smack me out. I should try to do aerials instead. Maybe Fair and Nair? Maybe the first hit of DB too.

I have had a lot of success either countering when they chase me off stage (good to sprinkle it in). But to answer your question, I think her nair is really good due to the long animation. Covers a lot of ground when they you approach, opposed to throwing out an ordinary fair. Plus the nair is sort of tilted down, so it lines up to their pursuit angle nicely.

 

[Funkermonster]

People here have said Lucy's only differences from Marth are her height and the tipper mechanics, but somebody said:


Lucina does have more differences to Marth other than the tipper and height. Her sword length is slightly smaller, her jab, forward tilt and up tilt are slower, her down tilt sends opponents at a different trajectory, Her dancing blade is MUCH faster and therefore more comboable, her d-air will cause a spike effect only at the very trough of the move and will knock opponents upward if not sweetspotted and her f-smash hitbox is slightly taller than Marth's.

Aside from dtilt trajectory and the Dair thing, I find everything else he said hard to believe. Can anybody confirm this stuff?

 

[Kuraudo]

So it's situational, but using the aerial momentum of Shield Breaker (the neutral one that is), Lucina (and I imagine Marth can too) carries that momentum into the ground and actually slides when thrusting her sword, giving her extended range. I say it's situational because if you commit to the full hop -> double jump -> Shield Breaker you're left vulnerable but if pressuring someone whose not expecting the range or wanting to punish the cooldown of the move and isn't expecting the rush forward, it seems handy. I'm about to put it into practice with another player in our region.

It's really cool looking though.

[EDIT]

AHA! It works! I even used it to cross someone up too. They didn't expect me to slide forward and land the hit and I broke their shield for it.

[EDIT #2]

Almost half of FD when done correctly. A lunging shield breaker without a custom special. I love it. This also works with Marth too.