Lucina Moveset Data & Analysis Thread

[Enigma14]

So I'm playing Awakening again and it makes me sad. She had so much potential. Too bad all she is considered as is an alt costume and not playing like her own character.

 

[Articablack]

So I'm playing Awakening again and it makes me sad. She had so much potential. Too bad all she is considered as is an alt costume and not playing like her own character.

Come again for Big Fudge?

 

[Enigma14]

Come again for Big Fudge?

I guess? I don't understand.

If she had her own moveset it should be a mix of ZSS flips, Marth's air slashes and acrobatics.

 

[Articablack]

I guess? I don't understand.

If she had her own moveset it should be a mix of ZSS flips, Marth's air slashes and acrobatics.

She's her own character, not an alt costume for Marth.

 

[Enigma14]

She's her own character, not an alt costume for Marth.

Not by Sakurai's standards and thanks for correcting me. I should have meant not a clone.

 

[Articablack]

Not by Sakurai's standards and thanks for correcting me. I should have meant not a clone.

Oh, gotcha. I don't see a big deal about her being a clone. Maybe in the next game they'll give her more of an identity, like Falco to Fox, or Luigi to Mario.

 

[Forlorn Penguin]

Or she'll get the Roy treatment, and get the boot.

 

[Circa]

That's more likely, considering they just kinda replaced Roy with Ike and gave him all the fire to troll appease us.

Not that I hope for it. I really like Lucina. But I mean...if they're coming down to give me Lucina again or they're putting in a Hector-esque lord? I'll be damned if I don't want the latter.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Her clone status makes sense.

Anyways, I'm actually getting really excited to play her. I've seen some fantastic use of Melee Marth's staples minus sheild breaker.

The trick for marth mains is going to be to understand that the knockback from the sword is always going to be the same no matter where you strike from (tip, base, etc).

She seems like a less dynamic melee marth tbh.

 

[Kosaki]

If Smash 5 is a thing, I think they'll just put Lucina back as an alt for Marth if they have to cut her as a character.

 

[MLSword]

Has anyone checked to see what kind of follow ups lucina has on grabs? Also, how much shield damage does upsmash do and can she DACUS? Also, last thing, is dtilt like Marth's dtilt? I would assume so.

 

[Robertman2]

Oh, gotcha. I don't see a big deal about her being a clone. Maybe in the next game they'll give her more of an identity, like Falco to Fox, or Luigi to Mario.

Considering how much IS loves her, thats probably going to happen.

 

[MLSword]

Also is it possible to Ken Combo with Lucina? I think the Marth thread has said that they can't with Marth but with Lucina's different sword mechanics maybe she can.

 

[Circa]

I think her Fair pushes at the wrong angle for it to be possible.

Every time I see her use it, she looks like she tosses them straight to the side.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

ATTN: OP

Your base damage values are incorrect, please fix them for the general public.

 

[JUr]

Hey, I found this today on Facebook

Her offstage game looks really well

 

[Katakiri]

ATTN: OP

Your base damage values are incorrect, please fix them for the general public.

Be more specific. Which ones? I just went through every move she has minus custom moves to double check and everything was correct bar a typo on N-Air's backswing.

Also, I'll have custom moves up and double checked once I unlock them all. The fact you can get duplicate move item drops has been keeping a couple out of my reach.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

Most of her moves have a decimal number attached to it.

Like, I think Lucina's fsmash is 14.75% base damage.

And a whole bunch of others are very similar.

 

[Katakiri]

That's awkward but it does explain the variation on damage I see. Thanks! I'll work on that asap.

 

[Articablack]

Hey, I found this today on Facebook

Her offstage game looks really well

Holy cow, her aerial game looks super tight!

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

There are multiple points where ganondorf could have gotten out of that situation. Still, her offstage game is great.

 

[Robertman2]

What are her taunts?

 

[Articablack]

There are multiple points where ganondorf could have gotten out of that situation. Still, her offstage game is great.

I think the only thing that sealed the nail in his coffin was the fact that Ganondorf did a second Up-B. Seeing how you can't ledge hog anymore, he probably could have grabbed on and teched away from Lucina, otherwise, I don't think there was much he could have done.

 

[Katakiri]

So while I'll ideally have her decimal percents finished by the end of the night, I'd also like to get into more detailed analyses of her moves than what's currently in the OP. I don't want to go too far into detail about moves that are too self-explanatory (Counter) but I would like to have some meaty tips to help players along by the international release of the game.

I'd like to start with the immensely upgraded (relative to Brawl Marth) Shield Breaker:

Neutral Special - Shield Breaker

Lucina preforms a lunging thrust forward using Parallel Falchion. This move has exceptionally high shield damage and can fully break an opponent's shield with only a small charge; it also reduces the opponent's shield regeneration rate for a few seconds should their shield survive. This is by far Lucina's longest-reaching attack as well. The move can be held and charged for 1.2 seconds before the attack begins automatically.

Damage Values: 8.0% (Uncharged), 21.8% (Fully Charged)
KO Potential: 54% (Fully Charged), 110% (Half-Charged), 170% (Uncharged)
Start-Up Lag: 19 frames. Hits on frame 20. (Needs further testing)
Ending Lag: 35 frames. 55 frames total move duration. (Needs further testing)

Gameplay Applications: With fast start-up and cool-down times totaling less than a second combined, Shield Breaker is one of Lucina's most potent mix-up options, easily rivaling Dancing Blade in practicality. Throwing it out when an opponent shields, off of a read, as a follow-up, or simply as a well-spaced poke will tell opponents that shields are a no-go in any match-up against Lucina. If their shield breaks, a fully charged Up-Smash is Lucina's highest damage-dealer at low percents but if the opponent is at 70+% (depending on Vectoring and Weight) a fully-charged Shield Breaker is Lucina's best option to finish the job. Tapping Shield Breaker for the lowest start-up time won't break a fresh shield entirely but it brings their shield levels so low that opponents will break their own shield should they attempt to block anything. That means, for a few seconds, Lucina can go all-out with no fear of her attacks being blocked.

Shield Breaker is great for covering the opponent's get-up, roll, and attacking ledge options due to the safety of its long reach and naturally negating the shield option after a foe's ledge option. It's also a decent follow-up to a Short-Hopped F-Air due to F-Air's knock-back angle at medium percents lining up the opponent perfectly for a landing Shield Breaker which again covers the shield option opponents might opt for after being hit by SH F-Air expecting a follow-up SH F-Air. Once you get a feel for the move and start applying it, I guarantee you'll be busting shields regularly.

So that's the format I'm thinking of going with for all moves. It seems organized enough and I hope I'm getting the information across without confusion.
If you have any questions or suggestions for these analyses or the thread in general, fire away; the thread is for you afterall.​

 

[Kosaki]

That's some good stuff sir.

 

[Robertman2]

What are her taunts and stage entrances?

 

[MLSword]

So while I'll ideally have her decimal percents finished by the end of the night, I'd also like to get into more detailed analyses of her moves than what's currently in the OP. I don't want to go too far into detail about moves that are too self-explanatory (Counter) but I would like to have some meaty tips to help players along by the international release of the game.

I'd like to start with the immensely upgraded (relative to Brawl Marth) Shield Breaker:

Neutral Special - Shield Breaker

Lucina preforms a lunging thrust forward using Parallel Falchion. This move has exceptionally high shield damage and can fully break an opponent's shield with only a small charge; it also reduces the opponent's shield regeneration rate for a few seconds should their shield survive. This is by far Lucina's longest-reaching attack as well. The move can be held and charged for 1.2 seconds before the attack begins automatically.

Damage Values: 8.0% (Uncharged), 21.8% (Fully Charged)
KO Potential: 54% (Fully Charged), 110% (Half-Charged), 170% (Uncharged)
Start-Up Lag: 19 frames. Hits on frame 20. (Needs further testing)
Ending Lag: 35 frames. 55 frames total move duration. (Needs further testing)

Gameplay Applications: With fast start-up and cool-down times totaling less than a second combined, Shield Breaker is one of Lucina's most potent mix-up options, easily rivaling Dancing Blade in practicality. Throwing it out when an opponent shields, off of a read, as a follow-up, or simply as a well-spaced poke will tell opponents that shields are a no-go in any match-up against Lucina. If their shield breaks, a fully charged Up-Smash is Lucina's highest damage-dealer at low percents but if the opponent is at 70+% (depending on Vectoring and Weight) a fully-charged Shield Breaker is Lucina's best option to finish the job. Tapping Shield Breaker for the lowest start-up time won't break a fresh shield entirely but it brings their shield levels so low that opponents will break their own shield should they attempt to block anything. That means, for a few seconds, Lucina can go all-out with no fear of her attacks being blocked.

Shield Breaker is great for covering the opponent's get-up, roll, and attacking ledge options due to the safety of its long reach and naturally negating the shield option after a foe's ledge option. It's also a decent follow-up to a Short-Hopped F-Air due to F-Air's knock-back angle at medium percents lining up the opponent perfectly for a landing Shield Breaker which again covers the shield option opponents might opt for after being hit by SH F-Air expecting a follow-up SH F-Air. Once you get a feel for the move and start applying it, I guarantee you'll be busting shields regularly.
​

So that's the format I'm thinking of going with for all moves. It seems organized enough and I hope I'm getting the information across without confusion.
If you have any questions or suggestions for these analyses or the thread in general, fire away; the thread is for you afterall.​

Is Marth's neutral b as powerful?

 

[TeaTwoTime]

Is Marth's neutral b as powerful?

My guess is that it follows suit with the rest of their moves. Less powerful if non-tippered, much more powerful if tippered. Lucina's shield breaker looks to be either more effective or as effective in general, though, unless Marth's tippered version breaks shields without needing to be charged or something.

 

[Rich Homie Quan]

Tipped shield breaker is a monster, I hear.

 

[Katakiri]

What are her taunts and stage entrances?

Taunts are in the OP and entry is here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u8qw21nPE4E#t=157

Anyway, as promised, the damage ranges in the OP have been updated with their decimal numbers. Even Dancing Blade. It's nothing drastic, just an extra .3% here and a .99% there, but that extra damage can add up so it's important to note.

 

[KuroganeHammer]

i have no idea wtf sakurai was thinking making a move with 9.99% base damage

But thanks for doing this, it's important to note that those decimal numbers do affect knockback as well, so it means our attacks are stronger than they look.

 

[Kosaki]

About kill % : https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iZPxLLaL4N8
Please test kill moves at 0% if you're willing to make tests.

 

[Minwu]

Any feel on whether subtler things like her hurtbox, frame data etc is different at all or if anything besides damage and knockback force are different at all? How does her Dair's spike hitbox compare to Marth's?

 

[Emblem Lord]

http://smashboards.com/threads/lucina-marth-movelist-video-comparison.369087/

 

[CURRY]

Okay, looking at these pages so far, I ran a ctrl+f search for the words "length" and "range" and couldn't find anything, so I guess that it's fair that I write this question, as it probably just hasn't been asked in a while. I also looked on the general Lucina thread too, didn't find the answers to my question... '-'

What are Lucina's proportions compared to Marth?
Is her hurtbox any shorter than Marth's? Any thinner? (Although meh, Marth is a tall, slender character, and so is Lucina, so that part doesn't really matter.)
Shield size comparison?
Overall disjointed hitbox range comparison?
Overall range comparison?

 

[Shadestars]

I'm interested in her Dolphin blow, I see it has a sweet spot. I assume it can deathblow like Marth's in brawl/melee, if that's the case is anyone able to determine what kind of kill % the Dolphin Deathblow has?

 

[Katakiri]

Okay, looking at these pages so far, I ran a ctrl+f search for the words "length" and "range" and couldn't find anything, so I guess that it's fair that I write this question, as it probably just hasn't been asked in a while. I also looked on the general Lucina thread too, didn't find the answers to my question... '-'

What are Lucina's proportions compared to Marth?
Is her hurtbox any shorter than Marth's? Any thinner? (Although meh, Marth is a tall, slender character, and so is Lucina, so that part doesn't really matter.)
Shield size comparison?
Overall disjointed hitbox range comparison?
Overall range comparison?

Lucina is slightly smaller than Marth in both height and width. As such, her shield is very slightly smaller to match.

I've tested the reach of their attacks and they seem to be identical.

I'm interested in her Dolphin blow, I see it has a sweet spot. I assume it can deathblow like Marth's in brawl/melee, if that's the case is anyone able to determine what kind of kill % the Dolphin Deathblow has?

Kills opposing Lucina/Marth at 160% partially on-stage, 130% on the edge of the stage. These numbers assume Lucina is not in rage herself.

 

[TheBestinWestPalmBeach]

Has anyone checked to see what kind of follow ups lucina has on grabs? Also, how much shield damage does upsmash do and can she DACUS? Also, last thing, is dtilt like Marth's dtilt? I would assume so.

I've mainly been downthrowing then following up with a short hop up air so far. At Early percents you can up throw as well and short hop up air, then double jump aerial. Will experiment more!

DACUS is impossible on the 3DS (could be wrong but iirc you need a c-stick and/or the z button)

dtilt is the same as marth's hitbox wise more or less (I can't notice a difference)
Lucina's dtilt = 8% throughout
Marth's dtilt = 7-10% based on range

If there's anything else you guys want tested that I can do solo let me know!

 

[Emblem Lord]

Test lucina range on her tilts compared to pit. I know his tilts got buffed. I want to confirm who has more range

 

[Emblem Lord]

I think Lucinas Shield Breaker custom moves have hella potential. You either get a super safe poke but it does little damage. Or a poke that can potentially cover stupid range but you give up spacing and control. You could potentially put yourself in a worse situation as well.