Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[Steeler]

Doin the Lizardgod's work, @ LordWilliam1234

I would like to emphasize that there were characters that could perfect shield jab 2 before, I assume this is not possible now. What a difference a frame can make, folks.

 

[RayNoire]

For the OP, I can also confirm Link's Up Smash links together considerably better.

Also on Mewtwo: He didn't entirely lose the ability to Confusion platform drop on Battlefield. It still works on about 1/3 of the cast (I can confirm Peach and ZSS still get dumped on the platform). That's why this nerf seems so strange; it could be the side effect of some other change.

 

[HydeEB]

Yeah, I think someone should seriously recheck on Sonic's Burning Spin dash having a 2% increase?
I mained Sonic for quite a while until recently, and I'm almost certain that this move has had no changes since it's previous nerf. The effective Combo Burning spin -> jump -> neutral was reduced to 22% damage last update. I'm using said combo atm and it's still doing 22%? So yeah lol.

 

[Aldax]

no change in wario?

 

[JayWon]

http://smashboards.com/threads/1-0-8-changes-infinite-lightweight-is-still-works.406176/


Confirmed:
-Palutena infinite lightweight glitch has not been patched
-Palutena's U-tilt has a vacuum effect (not necessarily bigger hitbox but definitely hits more reliably and gets people from farther away than before)

 

[Owl_Flavored]

Hello. Long time lurker, and I noticed a change to Robin that no one seems to have mentioned so thought I'd share...

When Robin does his/her rapid tab jab combo that ends in the wind tome flurry attack (not the fire one), after the wind attack finishes, Robin is now pushed backwards a bit, making it slightly harder to follow up. This is most noticeable when Robin is on the very edge of a ledge, as now Robin actually falls off the side of the stage after doing this combo. I had a match where I wasn't expecting to be going into the fall and started charging up the thunder tome and ended up killing myself :-/

 

[ParanoidDrone]

The combo meter isn't really broken insofar as it handles a few edge cases inaccurately. Aerial and landing situations might not register as a combo if hitstun had ended even when there is no possible action the target could have taken. (Including jab locks) Meanwhile, grounding, frozen, and various command grab states register as true combos when they actually aren't, and tech opportunities are not accounted for.

And of course, when we talk about combo meter and training mode, the usual caveats of stale moves, rage, DI, and SDI apply.

But in general, the combo meter is accurate at its main purpose: Communicating hitstun duration.

If the training dummy were to somehow break free from grounded, frozen, etc. states early (either "Control" and having a friend button mash, or high level AI setting, or whatever), would that "fix" the combo meter issue for those specific cases?

 

[Mario766]

One thing to fix.

Ike's F-Tilt does 12.5, not 12 percent.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l7TmFdK_bVE

 

[Sneaky boy Nick]

no change in wario?

He feels the same. Some people say his back air has less recovery frames. Maybe? But I don't think so.

 

[Thinkaman]

Right now our outstanding priorities, for those with the ability to test things, is Sheik fair, Luigi d-throw + nado, and landing lag timings across the entire cast.

 

[Schiffe]

I'm attempting to compare the Hexadecimal code of the fighters files between version 1.07 and 1.08, but it probably won't be enough to simply judge if one fighter's moveset was altered.

I'd probably be able to tell "X fighter has something changed in it's moveset" if I was to compare all the Hex codes of the moveset files and find differences, but that's about it. Won't be able to tell exactly what it is.

I will try to figure out a way to properly analyze this..

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

When Robin does his/her rapid tab jab combo that ends in the wind tome flurry attack (not the fire one), after the wind attack finishes, Robin is now pushed backwards a bit, making it slightly harder to follow up. This is most noticeable when Robin is on the very edge of a ledge, as now Robin actually falls off the side of the stage after doing this combo. I had a match where I wasn't expecting to be going into the fall and started charging up the thunder tome and ended up killing myself :-/

Ah, what you're describing is an Edge-cancelled Rapid Jab. Robin was always pushed back during the rapid jab. That's called auto-spacing. But he never fell off a ledge until now. Very interesting change. I think his was the only rapid jab that never allowed for edgecancelling pre-patch.

@ LordWilliam1234 I seem to remember you saying you'll take a closer look at Marth/Lucina's frame data. I request you check up on Marth's Jab 1 to Jab 2 transition. Similar to what we found with Charizard, the Jab 1 and 2 are being registered as a combo now when they weren't before. And I don't think the angular change has anything to do with it either.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

I seem to remember you saying you'll take a closer look at Marth/Lucina's frame data. I request you check up on Marth's Jab 1 to Jab 2 transition. Similar to what we found with Charizard, the Jab 1 and 2 are being registered as a combo now when they weren't before. And I don't think the angular change has anything to do with it either.

I'll be checking Marth/Lucina next. I'm going through Link's at the moment; his d-tilt is definitely faster now, just need to see how much so.

 

[Furret]

Ike

• Forward Tilt
  • Damage reduced: 14% → 12%

a minor correction it appears to be doing 12.5%

 

[LimitCrown]

Didn't Ike's forward tilt have a sourspot hitbox that dealt 12% damage? If so, then it appears that both the sourspot and sweetspot hitboxes were changed so that both would deal 12.5%.

 

[VuraLoL]

Im Petty sure they also increased the aerial bow landing lag

 

[Mario766]

Didn't Ike's forward tilt have a sourspot hitbox that dealt 12% damage. If so, then it appears that both the sourspot and sweetspot hitboxes were changed so that both would deal 12.5%.

Correct. Sourspot did 12 Sweetspot did 14. It hits 3 frames faster so it's way better anyways.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Looks like Ike no longer has his sourspot Ftilt located on his arm as he swings. I mean, the additional hitbox probably still exists in the frame data, but its damage was normalized with the rest of the blade at 12.5%

Edit: Whoops, didn't realize somebody already figured that much out.

 

[Shaya]

Yeah, I think someone should seriously recheck on Sonic's Burning Spin dash having a 2% increase?
I mained Sonic for quite a while until recently, and I'm almost certain that this move has had no changes since it's previous nerf. The effective Combo Burning spin -> jump -> neutral was reduced to 22% damage last update. I'm using said combo atm and it's still doing 22%? So yeah lol.

I heard this from several people who are Sonic players, but maybe there was miscommunication?
@Camalange @Seagull Joe

Also updated OP with Zelda landing lag, Falchion jab 1 transition, Charizard jab transition, Link up smash (first hitbox if I read/recall correctly), Ike ftilt
+robin added for edge cancelling wind jab.

 

[Mario766]

Other ike changes

Dash Attack start-up Frame 18 -> Frame 15
Down Air Landing Lag Frame 27 -> Frame 24
Forward Air Landing Lag Frame 20 -> Frame 19
F-Tilt actually starts on frame 13 Active frame 13 sorry, starts frame 12.
Jab 2 start-up Frame 21 -> Frame 18
N-Air landing lag Frame 18 -> Frame 15
Quick Draw start up Frame 19 -> Frame 16
Up Air Landing Lag Frame 19 -> Frame 16

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Link's grabs had their total frames reduced. Grab, dash grab and pivot grab were 66, 77, and 79 frames total respectively in 1.06. Now they're 61, 65 and 66 frames total respectively in 1.08. Start-up remains the same.

I'll need someone to help me confirm this one though, in 1.06 Link's grabs were the one thing I forgot to record so I can't do a side-by-side gif comparison. But the change is substantial enough to notice without needing a gif, thankfully.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I'll need someone to help me confirm this one though, in 1.06 Link's grabs were the one thing I forgot to record so I can't do a side-by-side gif comparison. But the change is substantial enough to notice without needing a gif, thankfully.

I can record 1.07 grabs for you.

 

[Vipermoon]

For anyone testing landing lag, please don't include the extra frame from shielding (shield is frame 1 but shield shows up in animation at frame 2 so watch out

Other ike changes

Dash Attack start-up Frame 18 -> Frame 15
Down Air Landing Lag Frame 27 -> Frame 24
Forward Air Landing Lag Frame 20 -> Frame 19
F-Tilt actually starts on frame 13 Active frame 13 sorry, starts frame 12.
Jab 2 start-up Frame 21 -> Frame 18
N-Air landing lag Frame 18 -> Frame 15
Quick Draw start up Frame 19 -> Frame 16
Up Air Landing Lag Frame 19 -> Frame 16

Pre patch:
Ike's Dair was 26
Ike's Fair was 19
Ike's Nair was 16
Ike's Uair was 18

So does this affect your post patch numbers?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

Sorry for being late to the party but here's a copy and paste of a thread I posted in the Ganon sub forums;

Thought that this change was so significant that I had to create a separate thread.

The 18 characters who would land on top of the two bottom platforms of Battlefield will no longer do that.

Is this a good change? I don't think so, maybe in a few instances it could help. Overall I think this was a horrible nerf.

http://smashboards.com/threads/ganondorf-did-get-a-change-but-perhaps-not-a-good-one.406754/

 

[Shaya]

^ Hmm, similar story with Mewtwo as well.

 

[Lavani]

That has me wondering if Confusion/Flame Choke themselves were changed, or if it was actually a global change to platform interactions.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

For anyone testing landing lag, please don't include the extra frame from shielding (shield is frame 1 but shield shows up in animation at frame 2 so watch out


Pre patch:
Ike's Dair was 26
Ike's Fair was 19
Ike's Nair was 16
Ike's Uair was 18

So does this affect your post patch numbers?

Probably not much. He was getting those numbers from a video somebody made on the Ike boards comparing pre-patch and post-patch Ike's frame data. Probably shift all of the numbers by one if I had to guess.

 

[Lavani]

@ TheReflexWonder : Can you still replicate the platform bounce thing when DIing C.Falcon's bthrow?

 

[Ray_Kalm]

^ Hmm, similar story with Mewtwo as well.

May want to add this to the front page for record keeping.

Before this change, it would have been possible to pull out 50% > death on a few characters in BF if you guessed the right option. Sad to have lost this.

 

[Vipermoon]

Probably not much. He was getting those numbers from a video somebody made on the Ike boards comparing pre-patch and post-patch Ike's frame data. Probably shift all of the numbers by one if I had to guess.

Yeah I just want the correct numbers to be in the OP. I don't know what the correct numbers are. Landing lag is tough if you have many different people doing it

 

[san.]

Probably not much. He was getting those numbers from a video somebody made on the Ike boards comparing pre-patch and post-patch Ike's frame data. Probably shift all of the numbers by one if I had to guess.

I also think the dair landing lag is lower than what was stated in the video. Not sure if he was fastfalling dair when he took that number.

 

[TheReflexWonder]

@ TheReflexWonder : Can you still replicate the platform bounce thing when DIing C.Falcon's bthrow?

I just tried it about thirty times and couldn't get it to work, no.

 

[ItoI6]

can someone with frame advance test the exact amount of endlag on mk ftilt 1 2 and 3? i know end lag was reduced on all of them and id like to know the new values thanks

 

[Shaya]

So it seems to me like there's perhaps a new "ignore platforms during throw animations" mechanic going on that effects ganondorf's side-b, mewtwo's side-b and various other things we aren't readily aware of?

Now the question is why Mewtwo's side-b still does do this with some characters. Would it be characters who don't have any way to avoid that landing but are actually out of hit stun?

 

[Vipermoon]

I also think the dair landing lag is lower than what was stated in the video. Not sure if he was fastfalling dair when he took that number.

Honestly Ike's Dair feels just about as laggy as an Air Dodge. Just tried it

 

[Lavani]

So it seems to me like there's perhaps a new "ignore platforms during throw animations" mechanic going on that effects ganondorf's side-b, mewtwo's side-b and various other things we aren't readily aware of?

Now the question is why Mewtwo's side-b still does do this with some characters. Would it be characters who don't have any way to avoid that landing but are actually out of hit stun?

It seems more likely to me that the height needed to land on a platform is just more specific, meaning a lot of characters put at a height that places them in a gray area are more liable to fall through then land on the platform. I suppose we don't know that it isn't a grab specific thing, but I'm not sure how one would test that.

can someone with frame advance test the exact amount of endlag on mk ftilt 1 2 and 3? i know end lag was reduced on all of them and id like to know the new values thanks

I'll retest it later tonight as I had some duplicate frames come through and don't have time to rerecord atm, but for FAFs I'm seeing:

Ftilt1: 33→25
Ftilt2: 35→27
Ftilt3: 38→31

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

It seems more likely to me that the height needed to land on a platform is just more specific, meaning a lot of characters put at a height that places them in a gray area are more liable to fall through then land on the platform. I suppose we don't know that it isn't a grab specific thing, but I'm not sure how one would test that.

Assuming such an engine change isn't applying to just command grabs like Ganon and Mewtwo's Side Bs, maybe we should test if various Dthrows are failing to put targets on top of platforms at specific percents?

 

[Dogmaster]

So I found something... unusual and different between 1.07 and 1.08 on links upsmash damage.

In 1.07, when hitting a grounded enemy and link is facing him, damage will always be 18% for all three hits (and combo counter breaks). However when hitting the same enemy when facing has his back to him, damage will be mostly 17% with some 18%s here and there, and combo counter works.

In 1.08 this is kinda reversed. When hitting a grounded enemy and link facing him, damage is ALWAYS 17%, and combo counter works. If hitting an enemy with back turned to him, damage will mostly be 18%, with some 17% here and there and combo counter works.

Difference is probably super small but wanted to point it out, guess this is a minuscule buff since damage is now more consistently 18%.

I got pictures only since I thought it was an outright nerf, would need a video to show other differences.

 

[LordWilliam1234]

Finished going through Link's frame data. The total frame count of his d-tilt was reduced, from 31 to 28.

Top is 1.06, bottom is 1.08.

The reduction in frame count also reduced the start-up, from 13 to 11.

I can also confirm the changes to Link's grab, will be putting gifs together for that.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Difference is probably super small but wanted to point it out, guess this is a minuscule buff since damage is now more consistently 18%.

This can be explained by the variable damage that the third strike does. 9, 10, and 11% depending on what part of the hitbox strikes the target. If it deals 11% damage, then you get the maximum of 18% for the entire move. We know now that the Usmash in this patch was tweaked to better place the victim just above Link if they were initially beside him. And just above Link seems like where the sweetspot of the third slash is located. It's not a damage buff, just better security that you'll get the most damage out of the move due to the hitbox angle tweaks of the first and second slashes.