Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[A_Kae]

For Marth's U-Tilt, any move will move him forward. Or at least Up-Tilt > jab will. Probably because the frame that marth moves back on is after the new IASA.

 

[Chibi-Chan]

So ZeRo keeps posting on twitter that sheik's needles where nerfed hard, when testing I found literally no changes to needles, not on damage, not on end lag, nothing. Looks like ZeRo is switching to Pika for literally no real reason.

The fact that Diddy has been continuously nerfed to the ground is a pretty good reason to swap.

 

[theyellowflash26]

Okay, good morning team!
- Marth/lucina up tilt moves forward due to IASA change rather than animation changes

This is only true for Marth. Lucina doesn't move forward.

 

[Quickhero]

This is only true for Marth. Lucina doesn't move forward.

Can confirm, just tested out Lucina and she doesn't move one inch. Doesn't take that long to test so there's no reason for me to spend 15 minutes getting a few seconds of footage.

 

[Shaya]

Is her ending lag definitely the same?

Could just be a matter of their animations being different (Lucina's steps back earlier in her animation than Marth).

 

[Ultinarok]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Falcon boards are fairly certain that Down Throw has had its trajectory altered where it sends opponents forward more, making follow-ups almost impossible (and virtually impossible past mid-percentage. This and the Uair nerf has hurt Falcon's combo game immensely.

I've used Marth a lot, but I'm fairly sure that they've buffed up his downward DB combo in terms of damage...it now does 21% consistently, whereas in the past it has done 18-19%. Maybe I keep getting tippers mid attack or am using a different combo than usual. Has it always done this much? I've used it MANY times but I swear it always did less. Anyone with pre-patch that can confirm or debunk would be appreciated.

Edit: When you do a mid-hit instead of a down it does 22%! I swear this is a buff. Am I just insane and have I not paid enough attention in the past or is this the case?

 

[Shaya]

We heard that earlier but some of our testers didn't agree with it conclusively.
Side-by-side testing of it at 999% with dummy on control (no DI inputs) would give us an idea.

 

[Quickhero]

Is her ending lag definitely the same?

Could just be a matter of their animations being different (Lucina's steps back earlier in her animation than Marth).

Just tried it out via putting Marth and Lucina in training mode, setting Lucina to the control option and just making them press u-tilt and then shield immediately. They both shield at the same time.

Would you like footage of this? Kind of inconvenient but if you really want it I'll do it.

 

[Shaya]

No, that should be conclusive/sufficient enough if they're input at the same time on one updated console.

 

[thehard]

Has this down throw nerf been tested without DI? Cause I'm pretty sure proper DI always made it difficult to get follow ups with Falcon.

Wondering how dash grabs affect follow-ups as well.

 

[LancerStaff]

Not a change, but rather a lack of one... There's a technique for Pit that cancels the endlag of a whiffed Sspecial completely. It involves sliding off the stage with the special. So, um, either Pit is weird or there's more to the sliding off with specials business.

 

[Firefoxx]

Yeah I'm positive this "nerf" is just people DI'ing + a patch just came out. I've noticed absolutely no changes and a rudimentary test using an updated wii u and pausing on a prepatch 3DS during the throw animation (so the AI cant do inputs) is showing the same trajectory

Wondering how dash grabs affect follow-ups as well.

Many of Falcons throw combos require throwing right out of the dash grab and buffering an input. Just standing grab down throw is pretty garbage. So if thats the testing method that could also be a problem

 

[ILOVESMASH]

Can anyone confirm if the following changes are true or just placebo?

Falco- F-Smash has changes hitboxes so that it either has a larger sweetspot or greater reach.

Doc- Up Smash sends people at a more horizontal angle than diagonal
- Up B has a larger hitbox and grab range

 

[Firefoxx]

Can anyone confirm if the following changes are true or just placebo?

Falco- F-Smash has changes hitboxes so that it either has a larger sweetspot or greater reach.

Doc- Up Smash sends people at a more horizontal angle than diagonal
- Up B has a larger hitbox and grab range

The doc usmash change is from last patch im pretty sure

 

[Ffamran]

The link to SmashLabs: http://www.smashlabs.de/thread/3457-version-1-0-8-balance-patch-char-changes/?pageNo=1, noted that Falco's Fair and Dair have lower landing lag, but once again nobody knows by how much. So, Fair's startup and landing lag and Fair's landing lag were never tested, but Uair's was.

 

[DudeLove]

Can anyone confirm if Mario's d-throw sends the opponent diagonal, instead of up (making it easier to get out of d-throw to u-tilt combos). And can anyone also confirm if Mario's d-tilt sends the opponent higher vertically. Thanks!

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Can anyone confirm if Mario's d-throw sends the opponent diagonal, instead of up (making it easier to get out of d-throw to u-tilt combos). And can anyone also confirm if Mario's d-tilt sends the opponent higher vertically. Thanks!

I've noticed Mario's downthrow does send them away diagonally more than it did, so I'm certain that this is a change. I have not noticed any change with his up-tilts but I could be wrong. Mario down throw trajectory is definitely changed though.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

I thought it said Link's USmash was more reliable.

 

[FullMoon]

Let's sum up Ike in this patch:

 

[Quickhero]

@ FullMoon Replace "Before 1.08" with "Before 1.04" and you would've (probably) been right.

Ike's been the manliest swordsman ever since 1.04 though, Sakurai just decided to give him more protein so that more people could maybe notice just how manly and strong he is.

 

[SphericalCrusher]

I thought it said Link's USmash was more reliable.

That's what some players were saying earlier on - about it not missing, etc... but I can't tell a difference. It's easier to upsmash out of the down-throw now though.

 

[Firefoxx]

Can someone test the ground of Skyloft for me? I can't seem to phase through the ground during transitions at any of the spots you did before, but I may not be testing it right.

 

[NipahAllDay]

Dang it Nintendo, please stop nerfing Sonic's killing option.

 

[Vipermoon]

If we get data dumps it'll be interesting, it'll likely be the first actual IASA 'change' thus far. Everything else has been frame rate modifications.
As the only reason he's stepping forward is because he would normally step back into his original position within the last 3 frames of the move, but etc etc.

Actually, so up tilt into ... fsmash (or any move), that doesn't put them more forward?

Wow I never thought of it that way. I just tried it and yes, he moves forward regardless on if you cancel with another Utilt. I went from whiffing Dtilt to Utilt > Dtilt hit confirm

Edit: just realized you guys already tried and confirmed this, still, I experience it, it's a nice thing for range

Edit 2: yeah @ Shaya considering I first got the new back hit of Utilt > FH Uair combo with Lucina they are definitely the same. I have no idea why Marth only moves forward but what if it has something to do with the fact that Lucina slides with a Perfect Pivot Utilt and Marth doesn't?

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Oh right, Link's Usmash was changed. Thought we noted that. I tested side by side. The hitbox angles were tweaked to place the victim directly above link when struck, rather than straight up. This makes it so that the Usmash will hit with all three swipes when picking up targets to the side of link standing on the ground. Before the patch, they would get popped up in the air by the first swipe, but would be safe from the other two.

Usmash - hitbox alterations for the move to reliably combo all three hits.

I remember one misconception about Usmash from day one that we can ignore. Some people were convinced the first swipe now hits lower targetsto the side of link, but it doesn't. It always hit that low on the first swipe.

 

[Vipermoon]

Like...are they serious? Ike's Fair hits behind him. I tested it, jokingly wondering if it would. It easily does. Marth's still won't even hit above him (it's missing a frame). What kind of person makes these decisions?

 

[ZeoLightning]

I wish they'd buff Pac-Man's grab, so the beam doesnt fail at point blank range, it has a grab box before the beam comes out and the retracting beam has a grab box.

with the removal of hydrant platform, pac got nerfed this patch

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Dang it Nintendo, please stop nerfing Sonic's killing option.

It was way too easy.

 

[Rango the Mercenary]

Let's sum up Ike in this patch:

Actually, After Patch 1.08...

 

[Ultinarok]

Like...are they serious? Ike's Fair hits behind him. I tested it, jokingly wondering if it would. It easily does. Marth's still won't even hit above him (it's missing a frame). What kind of person makes these decisions?

To be fair (lol see what I did there) Ike's fair is still much slower and is inferior for edgeguarding and pressure. Marth already has Uair, Dair, Bair and Nair to cover himself in all directions. Ike has a much more limited bair, dair and uair in terms of angle coverage so he needs a fair and nair with a huge radius to help him shake off pressure. Be thankful Marth finally got an aerial buff of some kind (nair landing lag reduction). He's slowly getting better too.

 

[NipahAllDay]

It was way too easy.

What do you mean?

 

[-RedX-]

Like...are they serious? Ike's Fair hits behind him. I tested it, jokingly wondering if it would. It easily does. Marth's still won't even hit above him (it's missing a frame). What kind of person makes these decisions?

I'm sure Marth's Fair still has a better lower hitbox than Ike's.
And just because I want to mention it, Marth's tipper Fsmash is stronger than Ike's sweetspotted Fsmash in knockback,

 

[WIM]

I've used Marth a lot, but I'm fairly sure that they've buffed up his downward DB combo in terms of damage...it now does 21% consistently, whereas in the past it has done 18-19%. Maybe I keep getting tippers mid attack or am using a different combo than usual. Has it always done this much? I've used it MANY times but I swear it always did less. Anyone with pre-patch that can confirm or debunk would be appreciated.

Edit: When you do a mid-hit instead of a down it does 22%! I swear this is a buff. Am I just insane and have I not paid enough attention in the past or is this the case?

Former Marth Main here. I am 99% certain Downward DB always did 21%. I've played A LOT and I'm almost positive you're just imagining things. But like you said someone with a pre patch can confirm/debunk this.

 

[Vipermoon]

To be fair (lol see what I did there) Ike's fair is still much slower and is inferior for edgeguarding and pressure. Marth already has Uair, Dair, Bair and Nair to cover himself in all directions. Ike has a much more limited bair, dair and uair in terms of angle coverage so he needs a fair and nair with a huge radius to help him shake off pressure. Be thankful Marth finally got an aerial buff of some kind (nair landing lag reduction). He's slowly getting better too.

You have some good points. But you probably are missing the reason that I'm angry.

I'm angry because the hitboxes don't match the animation. If they changed the animation to make it look like it shouldn't hit on frame 5 then I'd be very happy. Right now it should but doesn't. I have a thing with hitboxes matching animations that's why I will burn myself alive before I ever main Smash 4 Metaknight.

Comparatively, I don't so much complain about Marth's (still good) grab range or (now bad) Dolphin Slash range. I'm more complaining on the whole matching thing (especially since these, including Fair didn't have this issue in Brawl). Severe laziness on Sora's part.

Former Marth Main here. I am 99% certain Downward DB always did 21%. I've played A LOT and I'm almost positive you're just imagining things. But like you said someone with a pre patch can confirm/debunk this.

You're right, it wasn't changed. I have all damage values of Marth's Dancing Blade (and whatever else) memorized. If it was changed I would've reported it within 5 minutes of downloading the patch. All tippers, Marth's Up DB combo can do 21. Forward can do 20. And Down combo can do 26. Note these numbers are all in training, so each hit won't get stale. It's less damage in a real match. Mix and match and Dancing Blade can do 27%.

Anyone know why all hits of Roy's DED do 1% less than Marth's DB? There is literally no difference between the two except meaningless fire. Seems like an odd nerf to Roy to me.

@ Ultinarok So no, same damage.

 

[Steeler]

I can confirm unequivocally that 1.07 3DS Zard jab doesn't true combo on standing Falcon. Jab 1 to Jab 2 resets the combo counter. 1.08 Wii U Zard jab does not reset the combo on standing Falcon. It registers as three consecutive hits. Someone else can test for different patches on the same system, but I think this is pretty conclusive. Shoutout to @Pikabunz for posting about it multiple times, I was convinced this was just placebo because there's just no way Charizard could get three buffs in the same patch.

Zard has a true jab combo now aha ahahahahhahahhahahahahahaaha
and he has a top 5 kill throw now hahahghahgahghahdlkghalgalkdlghalgalgaa



it's a good day to be a bottom tier main

 

[RayNoire]

...Unless, of course, that bottom tier is Mewtwo.

 

[bc1910]

The OP is still missing Diddy's Dthrow having increased knockback. It's sort of implicit since increasing damage increases knockback due to the knockback formula but his Uthrow's damage is reduced and has the same knockback as it did pre-patch, so Dthrow's knockback increase should be specified.

-------------

Found another minor Greninja buff. In 1.0.7, dashgrabbing someone and pummeling them as both characters slide toward the ledge would cause the victim to be instantly grab released as soon as the pummel animation was over if their feet went off the stage. You couldn't pummel them again or throw them, they would get grab released immediately. Very occasionally, both characters would slide off the stage.

This behaviour meant you had to wait before pummeling someone after hitting with Greninja's dashgrab if you didn't want them to be grab released, because you could pummel them while their feet were off the stage and not have them get grab released, but you could not pummel them while their feet were actually sliding off the stage without them getting grab released.

In 1.0.8, Greninja can pummel his opponent and they will not get grab released as they slide off the stage. They will remain in his grab and they can be pummeled again or thrown. Delaying pummels is no longer necessary. Both characters cannot slide off the stage, either. I hope I have explained this change clearly.

This is probably to do with the universal ledge changes and may affect characters besides Greninja. It's extremely noticeable with him, though.

 

[Safariwisserin]

Don't know if this has been mentioned, but the Falcon boards are fairly certain that Down Throw has had its trajectory altered where it sends opponents forward more, making follow-ups almost impossible (and virtually impossible past mid-percentage. This and the Uair nerf has hurt Falcon's combo game immensely.

I compared the Dair between 3ds1.07 and wiiu1.08 ; I testet it on Mario at 0% and at 100% but i could not see a difference in the trajectory and Mario landed the same distance

 

[b2jammer]

It feels like Ganon's dair had its endlag reduced and Usmash has earlier IASA. Can anybody confirm?

 

[TriTails]

Comparatively, I don't so much complain about Marth's (still good) grab range or (now bad) Dolphin Slash range. I'm more complaining on the whole matching thing (especially since these, including Fair didn't have this issue in Brawl). Severe laziness on Sora's part.

Yep. Marth grabs me about a character away from his hand just about a while ago. Meanwhile, Dolphin Slash literally has no hitbox at the edge of the sword.