Lucas, Roy, Ryu (1.0.8) Community Patch Notes

[TSM ZeRo]

We only have room for one Kirino fan. Go away ZeRo <3
#TeamAyase



Are you able to get comparative diffs between 1.08 vs 1.06/7 raw hex dumped for each character? We could probably all nerd out most of it this way quickly.

A lot of these numbers could be run through with something that converts into Double format. Correlate preknown damage values, order of function parameters from mastercore, something something

lmao shaya pls

 

[Player-1]

Can someone with the previous patch our data files and whatnot test if Diddy's uair had a knocback reduction?

 

[Shaya]

Placebo effects or confirmation bias
ZeRo is by no means an alien immune to such human biases.

A single tweet with no details vs numerous amounts of people (trusted to be able to do comparative testing and if requested provide visual evidence or have game data access).
Anyway, mild salt aside. Things like these aren't always "wrong"; there's always the potential that something else was intrinsically changed that affects it ("hey guys marth's down throw to up air combos in this patch but didn't before?" "it isn't any different" "oh wait, vectoring is gone").
DI has been touched with in multiple balance patch thus far.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Two hits from Burning Spin Dash, then one from Nair.

So it's the hit from the roll, then the hit from the jump of the Burning Spin Dash... Ended with a Nair hit.

9 +3 + 12. Same as it ever was.

Just went crazy for a few moments looking at the landing lag for Little Mac's Jolt Haymaker, but then I remembered that the move has differentiating lag depending on how high up you punched/whether you've punched at all. I was confusing the most optimal landing (punching a set distance before landing) with the second most optimal (no punching at all, and just landing onstage during the move). Damn...

 

[Firefoxx]

Both. I forgot which video he said that, but ZeRo mains Sheik, so I believe him. He said this in twitter. "So I just realized this patch was like... addressed at me? They nerfed my mains (Sheik, Diddy) and even my secondaries (Falcon). Damn dude." -ZeRo

It was definitely aimed at him and had nothing to do with the fact that Diddy, Sheik (not patched ) and Falcon are 3 of the 4 most played characters.

Plus, this patch made Falcon u-air -> u-air connect reliably at mid percents and took a clever thing Angel was doing with Diddy (staling up-throw to allow up-throw -> up-air to work on some stages) and just did it for him.

 

[Dogmaster]

Both. I forgot which video he said that, but ZeRo mains Sheik, so I believe him. He said this in twitter. "So I just realized this patch was like... addressed at me? They nerfed my mains (Sheik, Diddy) and even my secondaries (Falcon). Damn dude." -ZeRo

You will believe a man´s word over the actual data the game runs on........... seriously

 

[NipahAllDay]

You will believe a man´s word over the actual data the game runs on........... seriously

I never said I disagree with the data of the game.

 

[Kofu]

Both. I forgot which video he said that, but ZeRo mains Sheik, so I believe him. He said this in twitter. "So I just realized this patch was like... addressed at me? They nerfed my mains (Sheik, Diddy) and even my secondaries (Falcon). Damn dude." -ZeRo

So they nerfed the two characters generally considered the best in the game and one who likely has a high FG winrate due to his design elements.

I doubt it was addressed at any player in particular. If anything it is probably addressed at the Japanese Tier List that Shaya mentioned (though I haven't seen it). The most baffling changes were to Diddy IMO outside of the UAir tweak.

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

So I've been labbing with characters with WiiU 1.0.8 and 3DS 1.0.6.

I have come to the conclusion that Mario's down throw and up-tilts have not changed.

And Captain Falcon's down throw did not look like it had changed it's trajectory of the character being thrown at all.

You know... with all these people saying how Sheik's Fair and Falcon's down-throw got worse... maybe its not a change in moves, but how powerful DI is.

 

[NipahAllDay]

Plus, this patch made Falcon u-air -> u-air connect reliably at mid percents and took a clever thing Angel was doing with Diddy (staling up-throw to allow up-throw -> up-air to work on some stages) and just did it for him.

Oh didn't know that.

So they nerfed the two characters generally considered the best in the game and one who likely has a high FG winrate due to his design elements.

I doubt it was addressed at any player in particular. If anything it is probably addressed at the Japanese Tier List that Shaya mentioned (though I haven't seen it). The most baffling changes were to Diddy IMO outside of the UAir tweak.

I wish they tell us why they nerf certain characters.

 

[FallofBrawl]

So they nerfed the two characters generally considered the best in the game and one who likely has a high FG winrate due to his design elements.

I doubt it was addressed at any player in particular. If anything it is probably addressed at the Japanese Tier List that Shaya mentioned (though I haven't seen it). The most baffling changes were to Diddy IMO outside of the UAir tweak.

Pretty sure it's mostly and probably because Zero used and won with Falcon and Diddy at Choikagi, and Daddy Samurai was there.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

You know... with all these people saying how Sheik's Fair and Falcon's down-throw got worse... maybe its not a change in moves, but how powerful DI is.

Regarding Falcon's Dthrow rumors, I'm pretty sure it was just his many players not realizing there is a difference between Dthrowing a target calmly in training mode, and landing a Dash grab > immediate Dthrow in a match. One of these two is optimal for followups in the air.

 

[LancerStaff]

For y'all wondering if somebody as well-versed as Zero could ever fall for placebo, Nario thought Dark Pit had his Sspecial massively buffed with the Mewtwo patch. Considering they still haven't even fixed his graphical errors, that'd be a no.

 

[Unowninator]

Height at which a character will land on a platform from a character's throw (or special throw) animation has been increased. Ganondorf (Flame Choke) and Mewtwo (Confusion) and possibly other throws affected.

Can someone please clarify this? I don't quite understand it.

 

[Dust the Baptist]

Falco is the best part of this patch.

 

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Uuurrrrgh, I don't want to add to the rumor mill but...

I'm testing grab as diddy kong with my 3DS and Wii U gamepad side by side. I synchronize the first grab between the two versions, then commence mashing for more grabs. At 1/4x time, I'm sure of it, Diddy's grab has more endlag in this patch.

@LordWilliam1234 Could I ask for you or anybody else to record post patch footage of Diddy's grabs while I get pre-patch?

 

[Shaya]

Can someone please clarify this? I don't quite understand it.

I reworded it (hopefully makes slightly more sense).
During a throw's animation, it's possible for the receiver to land on platform if the animation overlaps with it. It's now less likely to do this (Ganondorf can no longer do it at all, Mewtwo can on specific characters or from a jump I'm guessing).

 

[FallofBrawl]

I reworded it (hopefully makes slightly more sense).
During a throw's animation, it's possible for the receiver to land on platform if the animation overlaps with it. It's now less likely to do this (Ganondorf can no longer do it at all, Mewtwo can on specific characters or from a jump I'm guessing).

Hm, I'm guessing it's an indirect nerf to ganondorf? No set up for platform pressure and all.

 

[Shaya]

Yes.
But now that I think about it, it sounds like this mechanic change could also be related to the Pacmen mentioning hydrants no longer fall through platforms at a certain heights?

 

[Peabnut Bubber]

I'm pretty sure this has been discussed already, but Kirby can no longer do the Instant Stone glitch.

 

[FlynnCL]

Uuurrrrgh, I don't want to add to the rumor mill but...

I'm testing grab as diddy kong with my 3DS and Wii U gamepad side by side. I synchronize the first grab between the two versions, then commence mashing for more grabs. At 1/4x time, I'm sure of it, Diddy's grab has more endlag in this patch.

@LordWilliam1234 Could I ask for you or anybody else to record post patch footage of Diddy's grabs while I get pre-patch?

I just tested it out too with a 1.0.4 3DS and there's definitely an increase in ending lag to every one of Diddy's grabs.

Standing grab, dash grab and pivot grab all have fewer IASA frames. I'm sure of it.

 

[FallofBrawl]

Been hearing that ZSS d-throw got a change, and that it is a little harder to follow up on, can someone test and confirm/deconfirm? ZSS boards aren't really active.

 

[Vipermoon]

I just tested it out too with a 1.0.4 3DS and there's definitely an increase in ending lag to every one of Diddy's grabs.

Standing grab, dash grab and pivot grab all have fewer IASA frames. I'm sure of it.

This is disgusting. All they did to Diddy is sickening. At least the character isn't campy like our current top 2 characters are.

@ TSM ZeRo you should drop him

 

[PandaEffect]

I just tested it out too with a 1.0.4 3DS and there's definitely an increase in ending lag to every one of Diddy's grabs.

Standing grab, dash grab and pivot grab all have fewer IASA frames. I'm sure of it.

F

 

[Sir Tundra]

I have to say the diddy nerf was so unnecessary. I actually wonder though? Could it acutally be because since zero and m2k won that tournament in japan with diddy that sakurai decided that diddy needed to be even more nerfed then he already is?

 

[ArtfulHobbes]

Falco is the best part of this patch.

And Ike. They feel soooo much better now.

 

[PandaEffect]

I have to say the diddy nerf was so unnecessary. I actually wonder though? Could it acutally be because since zero and m2k won that tournament in japan with diddy that sakurai decided that diddy needed to be even more nerfed then he already is?

They did such a good job at buffing some of the lower characters, yet that nerf was completely uncalled for.
How much the developers seem to be disconnected from the actual competitive scene is kind of scary, I don't feel comfortable with them nerfing based on internet memes and complaints on for glory, but I guess we'll see what happens next.

 

[Kofu]

Been hearing that ZSS d-throw got a change, and that it is a little harder to follow up on, can someone test and confirm/deconfirm? ZSS boards aren't really active.

If there is a change it's to the endlag. Trajectory and knockback appear unchanged. Still kills Mario in Training Mode at 746% on the 3DS version.

 

[Snokros]

any way to make the developers change their mind regarding 1.08 diddy? like a petition or something? i know it might be naive to believe they would listen but it really doesnt feel good what they did to diddy... (upair nerf is probably the only thing i could agree on)

 

[Quickhero]

Guys, let's try to not overreact here. I know the increase in end lag for Diddy Kong is ridiculous, but can we really say that this is going to kill Diddy Kong? We have like 0 experience in an actual match how hard the Diddy Kong nerfs affect him, he could still be very good though.

I definitely agree that these nerfs are really dumb, nerfing the most balanced "best character" in Smash history TWICE actually scares me as to how the next Smash 4 patches will go. I genuinely hope Sakurai takes a break for at least a year after this patch, as we just need time to let the meta sit down and let it actually develop. Not trying to spread fear, just simply giving my opinion on this. :\

 

[ミスティック Speed]

Diddy was still kind of stupid.
No worries though, it's not like he's going to become the next Greninja or anything....right?
He's fine as he is now, let's just hope they leave him alone from this point on. Or at least, when it comes to nerfs.

 

[Thinkaman]

I now made my own crappy master core clone and have all the data for all characters, but my internet is down.

Teaser: Sonic usmash final hitbox kbg reduced from 177 to 165

 

[Snokros]

i dunno man... kind of expecting him to end up like that tbh.

 

[Snokros]

I now made my own crappy master core clone and have all the data for all characters, but my internet is down.

Teaser: Sonic usmash final hitbox kbg reduced from 177 to 165

that's awesome :D

 

[BltzZ]

I now made my own crappy master core clone and have all the data for all characters, but my internet is down.

Teaser: Sonic usmash final hitbox kbg reduced from 177 to 165

Can't wait to see. Is the current info we have on falco all that's been changed or you found more?

 

[Kofu]

Deconfirming a change to Sonic's UThrow. It kills Mario at the same percent in the 3DS version now as it did before (187%).

 

[Thinkaman]

Remember, I have no endlag or landing lag changes! Please go find those, someone!

Still waiting on internet.

Diddy uair from 1.0.4:
Hitbox created on frame 4, not 3 (not a frame speed mult)
6 dmg from 8
Growth 89 from 99
Base 100 from 65
ACs on frame 27 from 15

No other changes. Same size and position hitbox

 

[Shaya]

I would guess the damage/base/growth's came from 1.06 and the AC/start up nerf were this one.
It would .. maybe be helpful to know which for sure.

 

[internetmovieguy]

Lucina says "Your Mine" when countering (tested against marth). She used to *grunt* "hu-HA".
https://youtu.be/uWaTzoBBAbw?t=7m52s (proof from prepatch at 7m52s he counter's twice in a row)
i don't have a video of 1.0.8 lucina but it should be easy enough to confirm.

 

[Thinkaman]

I'll be comparing to 107 the moment my internet returns. Also my phone won't connect to my desktop because of course.

Is it narcissistic to see arbitrary drawbacks at crucial moments as some sort of Truman Show-esque "loading screen" barrier?