Social Lucario Social: Aura Dog Days of Summer

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Anything smash 4 has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tripping , infinites everywhere, horrible balance etc. All imo of course.

 

[Karnu]

I am 7 ELO points behind you

The important thing is we are both higher than Deez

 

[Croi]

Anything smash 4 has >>>>>>>>>>>>>>> tripping , infinites everywhere, horrible balance etc. All imo of course.

Rage is far worse than tripping. In all my time playing Brawl, I've never once seen a trip decide a match in my region (not to say it hasn't happened, of course). I'd love this game so much more if Rage weren't a thing.

e: eye emm oh

 

[smbmaster99MFGG]

Yeah nobody I've played with is fond of rage :/ I personally like just about everything about Smash 4 minus the rage

 

[Eeveecario]

Rage is far worse than tripping. In all my time playing Brawl, I've never once seen a trip decide a match in my region (not to say it hasn't happened, of course). I'd love this game so much more if Rage weren't a thing.

e: eye emm oh

Dude, I've seen a random trip decide a win several times, mostly lose against snake and his traps, or failed challenges.

 

[Croi]

Dude, I've seen a random trip decide a win several times, mostly lose against snake and his traps, or failed challenges.

Actually, now that I think about it, this happened last year:
https://youtu.be/NQ_fq459mCg?t=6m35s

But it happened for me, not against me, so it's alright.

but seriously, **** Rage.

 

[Rysir]

Dealing with rage is still more skillful than winning with tripping.

 

[Eeveecario]

Actually, it requires a lot of skill to trip under someone's projectile, the style and the salt. XD.

Samus has a charged shot? No problem! just bait a Jump n' Shoot, and trip under it!
Have a clear chance to get the KO and win the game? How about you trip first and miss the chance?
Spaced correctly and want to capitalize with a grab? How about tripping, land on their freaking feet and be at the mercy of them!
Want to dash and jump? Better trip first and trigger a mine in the process!

.... it was sooo funny and mean at the same time. It was a funny hellhole XD.

I remember Loota and his crew having a lot of fun with tripping

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Rage is far worse than tripping. In all my time playing Brawl, I've never once seen a trip decide a match in my region (not to say it hasn't happened, of course). I'd love this game so much more if Rage weren't a thing.

e: eye emm oh

I have with tripping.

Therefore I hate it.

edit: rage it no where near the rage I got at tripping. Rage I can plan fr, tripping I can't.

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

Actually, now that I think about it, this happened last year:
https://youtu.be/NQ_fq459mCg?t=6m35s

But it happened for me, not against me, so it's alright.

but seriously, **** Rage.

What about when you literally kill with two or less hits as Lucario with rage?

Without rage we would jump up a tier easily due to not dying until like 120 or 130. Sheik would not kill until like 200 lol.

 

[Rysir]

And then people would have been crying even harder that smash 4 takes too long.

 

[BugCatcherWill]

You guys are forgetting about momentum canceling. Remember when Meta Knight was secretly a heavyweight because he could just dair out of hitstun and live to ludicrous % also thanks to gliding and Shuttle Loop? Or being able to air dodge just 13 frames out of hitstun as a game mechanic?

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

You guys are forgetting about momentum canceling. Remember when Meta Knight was secretly a heavyweight because he could just dair out of hitstun and live to ludicrous % also thanks to gliding and Shuttle Loop? Or being able to air dodge just 13 frames out of hitstun as a game mechanic?

I still FAir out of hitstun due to muscle memory and sometimes die because I am a dumb.

 

[Rysir]

Announcement of the day: Aura bark bark!

 

[MythTrainerInfinity]

I need to stop being lazy and find more combos. Gotta use Eeveecario's hitstun calculator, reference data on Kurogamehammer, and cross-reference Croi's frame data because Croi's data has the frame you can shield. I know there has to be something we missed.

 

[Kami~]

I need to stop being lazy and find more combos. Gotta use Eeveecario's hitstun calculator, reference data on Kurogamehammer, and cross-reference Croi's frame data because Croi's data has the frame you can shield. I know there has to be something we missed.

find those combos mti, we're all relying on you

 

[Croi]

I need to stop being lazy and find more combos. Gotta use Eeveecario's hitstun calculator, reference data on Kurogamehammer, and cross-reference Croi's frame data because Croi's data has the frame you can shield. I know there has to be something we missed.

Keep in mind that all that data is from 1.0.0. I don't think Lucario's frames have been changed since then, but, you know, keep an eye out.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Is it aura time?

Also bark bark aura.

 

[Nysyr]

Keep in mind that all that data is from 1.0.0. I don't think Lucario's frames have been changed since then, but, you know, keep an eye out.

Fsmash and Dsmash got an endlag nerf. Takes longer to recover from, happened in 1.04 I do believe.

 

[Sunnysunny]

Fsmash and Dsmash got an endlag nerf. Takes longer to recover from, happened in 1.04 I do believe.

Source?
Because i'm pretty sure those went untouched...

 

[Nysyr]

Source?
Because i'm pretty sure those went untouched...

The Lucario, Shulk and Toon Link differences were annoying me so I've managed to track down a 1.0.5 3DS and I'm getting results more in-line with what others have said. Before I was using a 1.0.0 3DS.

Lucario's forward-smash and down-smash cool down increases. Shulk's dash-attack buff and Toon Link's neutral-aerial landing decrease are actually 1.0.4 / Wii U release patch changes that were somehow missed. I'm consistently able to recreate these differences with a 3DS 1.0.0 copy of the game.

So apologies for confusing people.

 

[Sunnysunny]

HOLY **** THAT'S DISAPPOINTING
Why would they touch are slow AF smash attacks?

 

[Steam]

HOLY **** THAT'S DISAPPOINTING
Why would they touch are slow AF smash attacks?

Now I'm even more upset about how safe certain smash attacks are.

 

[Nysyr]

Now I'm even more upset about how safe certain smash attacks are.

I basically want to crucify any Luigi main that trys to defend their character, when all of his smash attacks are faster or tied in startup with Lucarios Ftilt. Luigi's Dsmash is technically faster than all our grounded attacks as well at frame 6 since since Jab and Utilt are technically Frame 7 due to where their hitboxes start.

 

[Kami~]

Lucarios' fsmash is safe af at high aura. Downsmash is nearly useless anyways. Luc is fine

 

[Nysyr]

Lucarios' fsmash is safe af at high aura. Downsmash is nearly useless anyways. Luc is fine

And twice as slow as the normal human reaction time and extremely easy to powershield. Just because you hit players that never face a Lucario doesn't make the move any good lol. In fact, its more like 4x as slow due to the obvious AF audio cue added on to a 2 frame charge start.

 

[Croi]

Think of it this way: according to KuroganeHammer, Lucario's and Bowser's fsmash both come out on frame 22. Lucario will shield on frame 55 (assuming he doesn't hit anything) and Bowser on frame 71 (also if he whiffs). To make up for the discrepancy, Bowser's legs have intangibility; it stays out two frames longer; and has significantly more range than Lucario's fsmash.

Is Bowser's fsmash a good move? If no, neither is Lucario's.

 

[Kami~]

And twice as slow as the normal human reaction time and extremely easy to powershield. Just because you hit players that never face a Lucario doesn't make the move any good lol. In fact, its more like 4x as slow due to the obvious AF audio cue added on to a 2 frame charge start.

lol you really try to insult me at any any chance you get don't you. No lucario should ever just throw it out and pray that it hits in complete neutral, but coupled with pressure, conditioning, and asc things you can bait people into a situation of having an increased chance of fsmash landing. I've hit many top players with fsmash including zero so i'd like to hear your reasoning on that too?

Keep in mind you've accomplished nothing with lucario and never will while you post in viability discussions downing on lucario because in reality you have no idea how to use him. Lucario's fsmash isn't above or below average because it can land kills on top tiers if you bait the right attack, even sheik.

 

[Croi]

What kind of argument is that? Any attack is good if you bait it. Ganondorf's utilt is an amazing attack, you just gotta bait it, son.

A good attack is 1) useful in neutral, 2) a good pressuring tool, and 3) a kill move, or at least does high damage. Fsmash is one of those three, which is a failing grade. ASC is two of them. Bouncing Fish is all three, etc.

Feel free to call me ******** because I "don't use Lucario" or whatever, that's a pretty solid comeback of yours.

 

[Kami~]

What kind of argument is that? Any attack is good if you bait it. Ganondorf's utilt is an amazing attack, you just gotta bait it, son.

A good attack is 1) useful in neutral, 2) a good pressuring tool, and 3) a kill move, or at least does high damage. Fsmash is one of those three, which is a failing grade. ASC is two of them. Bouncing Fish is all three, etc.

Feel free to call me ******** because I "don't use Lucario" or whatever, that's a pretty solid comeback of yours.

when is solo dhd, might need to head in that direction at this rate

 

[elusiveTranscendent]

guys

 

[Steam]

By croi's criteria, vanish is a bad move

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I do not think Fsmash is a bad move.

When used in combination to the things Kami said which I agree that hitting with it is a lot more viable. Hell back in the brawl days I've done things like jab 1 > Fsmash.

 

[Croi]

By croi's criteria, vanish is a bad move

Throw > Vanish is amazing pressure, and it is a kill move, therefore it's a good move. Find a way to spam it in neutral and you'll turn my whole word upside down.

 

[Sinister Slush]

I don't understand why everytime Kami posts he gets a warning.

 

[Steam]

Throw > Vanish is amazing pressure, and it is a kill move, therefore it's a good move. Find a way to spam it in neutral and you'll turn my whole word upside down.

Trapping landings with fsmash is the same kind of pressure. It's not as good but its far from useless as a hard read punish move

 

[Kami~]

I don't understand why everytime Kami posts he gets a warning.

because red ryu is bias and mad he isnt in the cool kids club

even when i report his infractions nothing happens, lol

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Keep in mind you've accomplished nothing with lucario and never will while you post in viability discussions downing on lucario because in reality you have no idea how to use him.

If you left this out, I wouldn't have infracted.

 

[Croi]

Trapping landings with fsmash is the same kind of pressure.

You can't link fsmash into or out of anything, an attack or a throw or ASC. Pressuring an approach or a landing with fsmash relies on the opponent taking one option over how many others they might have, whereas an opponent will always be roughly in the same position to get hit by Vanish (out of a throw), and the opponent must choose one of three options to avoid it (attack, airdodge or jump)

You seem to think that I meant that fsmash was an awful move with no redeeming qualities. Obviously that's not true... it kills very early and does a ton of shield knockback/damage, so it's safe on non-powershields. But it's not exactly a great move either, since you can't just whip it out, like most "good" moves can. That was the point I was trying to make.

 

[Kami~]

keep that title ryu