JJR.O.B.
Smash Ace
Blood Hawk has a beastly lucarioHere is good video displaying top level play from both characters.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=shEuOTJc8nA
OS vs Blood Hawk
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Blood Hawk has a beastly lucarioHere is good video displaying top level play from both characters.
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=shEuOTJc8nA
OS vs Blood Hawk
Nair is so freaking easy to avoid it isn't funny. It's really really slow and he makes a jerky movement. Keep an eye out for that jerky movement and you're all set. It's also painfully obvious every time he attempts to Nair.it's in ROBs favor imo, main reason: nair
but not by much somewhere between 55:45 and OS's own statement of 52:48
Recovering high and using a ton of fuel are different; and as whatshisname said, when possible.Then why does your guide suggest otherwise?
"Your best bet is to recover high, very high, and land on the stage with an air dodge or falling nair."
If ROB is DIing properly, he should only need a little fuel and a few bairs to safely recover out of your reach. From there, he can airdodge or nair to cover his landing. ROB may not have the great FF that Snake does, but his horizontal DI and bair make up for it.
OS, if you don't recommend recovering high, and you don't recommend grabbing the edge, then just what do you recommend for ROB?
There truly is nothing more needed to be said.idk how late i am for all this simna drama, but my friend just told me he banned someone for a week for not being an obsessive ness weirdo like him
not everyone likes ness to the point of sexual obsession. >_> You dont have to ban because someone realizes that the slowest and most predictable move in the game isn't reliable as a kill move. The only reason Ness mains ever win is because of accidental and fluke up b kills. accidents and flukes dont equal counter.
nor does not being a ness main warrant a ban. l2mod.
You should hang around the Lucario boards more often, you're really cool!idk how late i am for all this simna drama, but my friend just told me he banned someone for a week for not being an obsessive ness weirdo like him
not everyone likes ness to the point of sexual obsession. >_> You dont have to ban because someone realizes that the slowest and most predictable move in the game isn't reliable as a kill move. The only reason Ness mains ever win is because of accidental and fluke up b kills. accidents and flukes dont equal counter.
nor does not being a ness main warrant a ban. l2mod.
I agree, save for the part that our fair>his fair.Welcome back dguy.
My ROB review. Open for critisism. If you hate this, tell me :D.
ROB is a tough match for lucario. As mentioned before, and he has a great amount of range that makes him hard to approach on. His ground game is better than Lucario's. All of them have extreme priority. Other highlights of ROB's ground game: f-tilt is excelent b/c of its range, spammable d-tilt, etc.
ROB has a great aerial game. Some moves are laggy, like ours, but are soo powerful its not even funny. N-air covers such a wide range it doesn't matter if you can catch the 'jerky movement.' F-air is okay, sort of like ours but definetly not as lag-less or wide-ranged (Nines, our f-air is more sick for these<<< reasons). U-air isn't bad, but its easy for us to counter with a d-air, or simply a DI or AD. But b-air and n-air is where its at for ROB. If Lucario doesn't take the advantage and hit ROB while he is in his start-up lag, the move will definetly outrange anything else he can do. If Lucario is careful while in the air and keeps up the 'combos,' he sholdn't have to worry about ROB's really powerful aerials too much. Lucario wins in the air. Barely.
Adding on to aerial games, as stated before, a problem arises when ROB is recovering and we can hop off the edge and **** him midair. It can be avoided as Overswarm has stated, by recovering high enough while conserving fuel. But if its inevitable, ROB's up-b recovery path gets anticipated and punished. ROB isn't like Snake, where he can AD right out of it. Nope. If ROB is using his up b right in front of you he is just asking for it. The best moves for Lucario to gimp/anticipate recovery are with d-air (jump above him), Aura sphere (jump to get level with him or just wait on the stage until he gets level with you), or f-air (lagless, sets up more opportunities for same aerial attack).
Projectiles. Both characters love 'em. ROB generally loves them more, because they are amazing. I don't have to explain why the laser is so great, do I? His second projectile, the 'top', has KO potential if fully charged and can block our aura spheres if used correctly. The top is not spammable however. You'd think ROB's projectile game destroys Lucario period until you take into account the usefulnes of baby aura spheres. BAS' come out faster than ROB's laser can recharge. Sure, ROB can reflect it, but the side-b has little priority anyways and ROB can get hit right after the side b animations are over. With projectiles, ROB needs to stay out of range or dodge BAS, and he is in great shape. Lucario has a bit more trouble, but he needs to remember to BAS as long as it will be effective and, when necessary, shoot a fully charged AS for a KO (unexpectably though, of course, since if AS is expected ROB has plenty of time to block it with down b, reflect it with side b, or shield it).
If Lucario plays it smart, and ROB hopefully can't find a way to camp if AS and BAS are used correctly (otherwise, a camping ROB would **** us), I say 60-40 Lucario. Barely above what it looks like a lot are saying, 55-45. If 60-40 makes it look like ROB hasnt been dealt a very good hand of cards, than don't look at it that way. This match-up can go either way all depending on how each character plays.
hahaha.idk how late i am for all this simna drama, but my friend just told me he banned someone for a week for not being an obsessive ness weirdo like him
not everyone likes ness to the point of sexual obsession. >_> You dont have to ban because someone realizes that the slowest and most predictable move in the game isn't reliable as a kill move. The only reason Ness mains ever win is because of accidental and fluke up b kills. accidents and flukes dont equal counter.
nor does not being a ness main warrant a ban. l2mod.
I prefer ftilt as its hitboxes linger even longer...I didn't feel like reading through the walls of text, so someone probably already mentioned this.
Lucs jabs have a pretty good chance of going through ROBs SD>Dsmash because of its lingering hitboxes... and they are probably your fastest atk in that kind of situation.
Our f-tilt range is greater than jabs, so why would he not also f-tilt if you try and jab?Another thing is that if ROB is in your Ftilt range, he will probably Ftilt YOU. ROBs usually start to SD>Dsmash when people get to close, thats why jabs are better in this situation, range is not as necessary.
I mean, I get it, but whatever. I guess so.You dont get it, ROBs use spotdodge>Dsmash when someone is too close for them to do anything else. If he is in your Ftilt range he wont Dsmash, he will use Ftilt.
Assuming you've managed to get pass ROBs spacing and you are at the point where ROB starts to spotdodge, the attack i with the least start up lag is probably your best option imo.
Lol I never even thought of that. I mean, a lot of people do use it for spot dodge, but I forgot it meant self-destruct lol.SD actually stands for SUICIDE. Find a different abbreviation mate. That one's taken.
This. Jabs/jab cancelled whatevers are good against ROB's spotdodge ***gotry. His dsmash is like same range as your ftilt anyways, no point trying to space yourself with it when his dsmash comes out in 4 frames or something.You dont get it, ROBs use spotdodge>Dsmash when someone is too close for them to do anything else. If he is in your Ftilt range he wont Dsmash, he will use Ftilt.
Assuming you've managed to get pass ROBs spacing and you are at the point where ROB starts to spotdodge, the attack i with the least start up lag is probably your best option imo.
Uhh.Since We have all said our peace on ROB and Jeepy said he would be away for a bit, what is stopping people from just talking about Snake.... Do you really need someone to OK it for you? If anything it will prevent people from posting their "OMG why havent we changed yet" "Change plz kthxby" posts, since they will see we have started a new topic.
Since everyone else will say most of what I have to say about Snake even if I say it anyways, I will just post my Stage Recommendations...
Lets start with my "bad" stages
Frigate Orpheon: Snake can camp much better here then we can fight him on it. The low platform area is ideal for his tilt range, once he gets you moving away from his C4 and Grenades. His recovery wont be a problem here either since he doesn't need ledges to recover from.
Luigi's Mansion: That house is ideal for his camping, he can even Up tilt you from the floor below! Even if you destroy the house it wont take long for it to come back and then he can just start camping all over again.
Rainbow Cruise: Why do I put this in the bad category... because you will never fight Snake here. They will pick a different character (probably Meta Knight since they play Snake, they more then likely play Meta Knight too...) if you try to take them here. So it will just be all sorts of bad for you if you try this. Unless you are good at Meta Knight dittos I would highly recomend not choosing this stage against a Snake player... you wont fight them there.
Now for some good stages...
Rainbow Cruise: The best Snake counter pick in the game... only downside is you will never fight one here, they will either ban it or change their character.
Brinstar: The mucus on the floor stops Snakes Mortar Slide, and extends the duration of most attacks (which can be good and bad so watch out). The stage layout forces Snake to move around just to camp that well if he plans on hitting you with his grenades. The best part is the Lava, it forces him to move and in the air even.
Pokemon Stadium 2: The stage changes constantly which forces Snake to move around. It requires you and your opponent to adapt constantly (which is what I hear Snakes hate doing)
Pirate Ship: Get him in the water!!! There are enough stage obstacles that can impede his camping so that you can get inside him and mess with him a good bit.
So then why couldn't you say that the snake conversation starts here?I'll try to update tonight, but I don't think it's going to happen. It'll be done by Tuesday at the latest.
Also, thanks for your contribution, but I'd like to keep the discussion consistent, since I am linking pages in the OP, and I don't want Snake info in the ROB section.
Why would snake ever approach, he can camp much better then you can.. he will force you to approach and punish you for it....The stage you'd want to take Snake to would be FD. No platforms makes it harder to him to approach you, also harder for him to camp due to platforms and utilt gayness.
I posted about this because this is a stage that you can **** him on... I posted the fact that you wont fight him there just so that people dont get caught off gaurd when the snake player changes characters on you.Rainbow Cruise is no concern. If you're taken to Cruise as Lucario, it's going to be by a character who can **** house on there (GaW, MK) and there's nothing you can do about it. If you want to keep this exclusively Snake, that was irrelevant. We'd have to go through each character's counterpicks and be like "lawl dont pick this cause theyll CP you with a different character."
....lol.Why would snake ever approach, he can camp much better then you can.. he will force you to approach and punish you for it....
It's insanely clear who's right and who isn't. It's been pretty obvious from day one.Lol, in almost every thread one of you two is in, the other is there also, arguing. You guys should duke it out on wifi or something, figure out who is right once and for all.
lol.Lol, in almost every thread one of you two is in, the other is there also, arguing. You guys should duke it out on wifi or something, figure out who is right once and for all.
I can see why ROB would love lylat, but why avoid frigate?
We do have a wall grab though, which is fairly easy on several of the side walls that are encountered while recovering. Wall grab > wall jump > b-air would work great. But when its too hard to reach the wall, I agree that ROB can pretty much gimp us to death.lol.
Hawk disagrees with me on this, but the stage just caters to ROB too well. The second transformation, his defensive game is so gay underneath the platform. The platforms that throw themsselves out on the sides every 6 or 7 seconds lets him camp even more than before, and going after him is dangerous as he can easily gimp your less-than-admirable recovery.