manhunter098
Smash Lord
Well if he is just going to hit himself at you you could always, I dont know, double jump, and even do an air dodge just in case. I dont see the point in using ES to escape when its really not necessary.
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~Lucario Match-Up Chart/Discussion- Rotation Eighteen: Olimar~
- Thread starter Jeepy Sol
- Start date
if u have a dobule jump....of course then you are puttng yourself higher into the air
Sorry, but double team is one of the worst ways I can think of avoiding pkt2, ESPECIALLY if you are getting tailwhipped. Its just not reliable enough.
Even so, a good Ness should be tailwhipping you correctly so you have a harder time escaping than it sounds like it should be.
Can you generally make tailwhipping > pkt2 nearly unescapable, Simna?
**anticipating ROB...**
§witch
Smash Lord
K, well it seems as if simna came here as an experienced ness main to help you guys with the match-up, and then you dismissed his input. Why do you think ness mains use PKT2? It's not cause we like missing with it...
I wasn't disregarding it, I agree with you. I think that if pkt2 was unreliable like they keep saying then you guys would never use it.
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Yea, im just going to stay away from here for a bit.
I'll be back with a R.O.B review. You kids work out what ever is eating you in the pants and move on.
Cheers
-t2
I'll be back with a R.O.B review. You kids work out what ever is eating you in the pants and move on.
Cheers
-t2
Trexxen
Smash Cadet
$50 says that this discussion would have ended three pages back had no infractions been given out, BUT, that's not my place to act.
PKT2 really ISN'T as bad as people say, but at the same time, it also ISN'T all the Ness mains crack it up to be. It's a very situational but very powerful move - hard to pull off, but worth it; like Falcon/Warlock Punch, or Kirby's Stone. Obviously any decent Ness main knows when and when not to use it; thus, it IS a dangerous move provided the person behind it is not a total scrub and/or idiot. THAT SAID, try rolling into it - you're both going different ways so the hitbox goes over you, and you have a bit of a chance to react afterwards. It's risky, but isn't this game based on risk/reward?
~Trexxen
PKT2 really ISN'T as bad as people say, but at the same time, it also ISN'T all the Ness mains crack it up to be. It's a very situational but very powerful move - hard to pull off, but worth it; like Falcon/Warlock Punch, or Kirby's Stone. Obviously any decent Ness main knows when and when not to use it; thus, it IS a dangerous move provided the person behind it is not a total scrub and/or idiot. THAT SAID, try rolling into it - you're both going different ways so the hitbox goes over you, and you have a bit of a chance to react afterwards. It's risky, but isn't this game based on risk/reward?
~Trexxen
Conclusively
Smash Journeyman
Gah. Trapt is correct. Just drop the PKT2 thing. You should either contribute to the Ness discussion overall, or just wait for ROB.
im afraid im not qualified to discuss rob vs. lucario^_^
also not to be nitpicky but Trexxen pkt2 is nothing like warlock punch....pkt2 can be used much much more often than that move
dont worry guys....ill be in here a lot less when its rob time
also not to be nitpicky but Trexxen pkt2 is nothing like warlock punch....pkt2 can be used much much more often than that move
dont worry guys....ill be in here a lot less when its rob time
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
maybe today I'll get some ROB experience, but i doubt it, probably going to play more melee, but if i do get stuff I'll edit this with info Disregard this post--I'm predicting the future
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
I know a lot about Lucario v. R.O.B.
My brother has this terribly annoying R.O.B. that likes to spam dodge-roll and projectiles. Final Destination is not a good map for Lucario in this matchup, which is why I always go there. I believe the trick to countering spammy projectile R.O.B. requires using A LOT of air approaches. Unfortunately, I do not know how R.O.B. counters a Lucario air approach. Also, I believe that Lucario's Dair has a slight edge over R.O.B.'s Uair, but don't count on being able to cancel Dair out - if the spacing is off, Uair will hit you.
Matchup - neutral, possibly slightly in R.O.B.'s favor, but approach R.O.B.'s projectiles from above and to the side, as R.O.B.'s projectiles are all horizontal.
My brother has this terribly annoying R.O.B. that likes to spam dodge-roll and projectiles. Final Destination is not a good map for Lucario in this matchup, which is why I always go there. I believe the trick to countering spammy projectile R.O.B. requires using A LOT of air approaches. Unfortunately, I do not know how R.O.B. counters a Lucario air approach. Also, I believe that Lucario's Dair has a slight edge over R.O.B.'s Uair, but don't count on being able to cancel Dair out - if the spacing is off, Uair will hit you.
Matchup - neutral, possibly slightly in R.O.B.'s favor, but approach R.O.B.'s projectiles from above and to the side, as R.O.B.'s projectiles are all horizontal.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
except for his main one...the laser, which can be angled....
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Depends how significant you think the max angles are. I see R.O.B.'s laser and think mostly horizontal, easy to get above attack.
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
the angles aren't great, but a jump is all he needs at worst. Not to mention that doesn't his nair outrange everyhting we have in the air? and his fair trades hits with ours iirc.
I've enjoyed posting with you Simna. I don't 'want you to leave.' I'm sure you get this a lot, but your melee matches seriously inspired me to improve with Ness and play him a ton more. So its been an honor to post with you on here.
I'll post a review of vs ROB tomorrow guys
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Ideally, you want to hit a grounded R.O.B. from the air. Unfortunately, my friend doen't play air R.O.B. as well as grounded, so I don't have much of an opinion on air v. air combat. However, I think Lucario's Dair might be equal to R.O.B.'s Uair in usefulness - Not sure which one would win for certain, but the player with the better spacing in this perticular clash will most likely get the hit.
G-Beast
Smash Ace
Aura Sphere is hard for ROB to stop in my experience, but his spinner thing stops any aura sphere cold. Fsmash is great for spacing, since rob cant stop it with any of his attacks, and his laser is really just free Aura for us, especially when were within his KO potential zone, which is about ~80% i think for his usmash.
his Dair sucks to get hit by, and i dont think Usmash has longer range then it. getting hit by his dair offstage almost guarantees you will die, definetly at around 40%
im also having problems fighting ROB's usmash, nair, bair, and how to approch if im forced to
his Dair sucks to get hit by, and i dont think Usmash has longer range then it. getting hit by his dair offstage almost guarantees you will die, definetly at around 40%
im also having problems fighting ROB's usmash, nair, bair, and how to approch if im forced to
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
I would never refer to any damage as "free aura" because it is never a good thing when you are hit. Lucario mainers do not intentionally absorb attacks unless they are not all that skilled, because the tradeoff for power is comboability.
indianunit
Smash Journeyman
Seeing as how ROB is my secondary, I think I can contribute something to this. Or at least I'll try.
-ROB has quite possibly the best recovery in the game. Great for gimping opponents and almost impossible to gimp ROB.
-Some ROB mains I know prefer to be campy and throw out a combination of laser and Gyro. Even if they have a great recovery get off the stage and attack them or else spam aura spheres. What ever works.
-Watch out for ROB's Upair which does an upwards of over 20 % damage (luckily with very little knockback).
-It knows several killing moves but seeing as it uses them many times during the match anyways the decay factor kicks in making those killing moves virtually useless until about 150%. Some Rob mains prefer to keep one KO move fresh till the end for the final KO so watch out for that.
-I love (and I mean love) to use ROB's spot dodge to downsmash. Luckily Lucario has it's lingering hitboxes so use that agaisnt ROB's combo.
I might update later when I think of other stuff but until then this is all I got. Hope I helped.
-ROB has quite possibly the best recovery in the game. Great for gimping opponents and almost impossible to gimp ROB.
-Some ROB mains I know prefer to be campy and throw out a combination of laser and Gyro. Even if they have a great recovery get off the stage and attack them or else spam aura spheres. What ever works.
-Watch out for ROB's Upair which does an upwards of over 20 % damage (luckily with very little knockback).
-It knows several killing moves but seeing as it uses them many times during the match anyways the decay factor kicks in making those killing moves virtually useless until about 150%. Some Rob mains prefer to keep one KO move fresh till the end for the final KO so watch out for that.
-I love (and I mean love) to use ROB's spot dodge to downsmash. Luckily Lucario has it's lingering hitboxes so use that agaisnt ROB's combo.
I might update later when I think of other stuff but until then this is all I got. Hope I helped.
Browny
Smash Hater
from what ive noticed
behaviour
- When Rob is about 2-3 character lengths in front of you, expect a roll dodge dsmash
- When Rob is next to you, infront, expect a spot dodge dsmash
- When Rob is next to you, behind, expect a spot dodge dsmash
- When Rob is about 2-3 character lengths behind oyu, expect a roll dodge dsmash
- When rob is any greater distance than that, expect a glide toss dsmash
- After ROB has dsmashed, expect another spotdodge dsmash
- After ROB has spot dodged, expect another spot dodge, then a dsmash
behaviour
- When Rob is about 2-3 character lengths in front of you, expect a roll dodge dsmash
- When Rob is next to you, infront, expect a spot dodge dsmash
- When Rob is next to you, behind, expect a spot dodge dsmash
- When Rob is about 2-3 character lengths behind oyu, expect a roll dodge dsmash
- When rob is any greater distance than that, expect a glide toss dsmash
- After ROB has dsmashed, expect another spotdodge dsmash
- After ROB has spot dodged, expect another spot dodge, then a dsmash
Negative_Two
Smash Cadet
- Joined
- Aug 16, 2008
- Messages
- 25
Behavior:
-R.O.B. can be a very campy character because he can utilize his two projectiles (lasers and gyros) to keep you at bay. If you get close to him, he can hit you with an attack that sends you away (dsmash, ftilt, throw) and then retreat. R.O.B.s may repeat this process several times.
I'll try to contribute more later...
-R.O.B. can be a very campy character because he can utilize his two projectiles (lasers and gyros) to keep you at bay. If you get close to him, he can hit you with an attack that sends you away (dsmash, ftilt, throw) and then retreat. R.O.B.s may repeat this process several times.
I'll try to contribute more later...
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Mmmk.
Ill get on that review jeepy, expect the "Tin Can" to be done.
-t2
Ill get on that review jeepy, expect the "Tin Can" to be done.
-t2
G-Beast
Smash Ace
we need to be at very high percents for his dsmash to kill us, ive been surviving it at 160% and above, it has priority but its KO potential is garbage. not being able to KO Lucario upwards at 160% with a smash is not something to be proud of. in fact, usmash is the only smash that should concern Lucario at all, his fsmash has too small hitboxes, ftilt has longer range!
culexus・wau
Purchased premium only to change name ><
Shoop Da Woop :U
ROB IS EVIL D: I seriously Really think this is in ROB's Favor heres Why:
1.HE MAKES USING AURA SPHERE A PAIN IN THE *** D:<
ROB can Reflect The Spheres with SideB, And can even Use his Top/Gyro to Absorb it T_T
PLUS his Jab,Ftilt, Dtilt,Fair,Nair,Upair, Dsmash, & Fsmash, cancel out BAS D:
*his Uptilt & Bair + Dair do too but only from the top & The Burners respectively so it's not too useful upair gaurds a little on the side so I listed it*
2.HE JUST DOESN'T DIE D:
He's Heavy,he has a 1337 Recovery, AND he can attack while recovering
WE CAN'T gimp him, and He LIVES forever. good thing ROB doesn't get an aura boost.
we'll have a hard time killing him <_< but he has a hard time killing in general so make use of that!
3.HIS AERIAL GAME RIVALS OURS D:
his Fair will Clashes with our Fair, his Nair beats out most of our air game if we don't hit him quick enoughOur Bair beats it though.... HOWEVER on the 2nd Swing it has a range simalar to our Bair D: I Believe Our Dair Clashes with his Upair but I haven't tested it. I remember it clashing in one match though.However our UpAir can beat his Dair :D not sure what happens if they both hit when Dair's Hitbox comes out though. Thats pretty much all I can give out but His Aerial game is just about as 1337 as ours
not better though. for sure.
4.HIS TOP IS HAX D:
This little thing is so annoying it deserves it's own Paragraph.like I said it Absorbs Our Aura Sphere X_X but it can do other stuff too once the Top is out. like a Tech chase T_T.
1.we roll around it = Smashed
2.we SH = Fair or Naired
3.we walk into it = Smashed D:
4.he can pick it up and Glide Toss
yeah and thats why I think this will be a uphill battle <_<
ROB has trouble Killing so make use of that. but you WILL have trouble killing ROB
it all comes down to who kills the other 1st............. but then again all fights are like dat lolz
a bit on his key moves
Dsmash: AVOID THIS LIKE THE PLAGUE D: it's his main punishment move and it almost
always comes after the Sidestep
DA LAZAH: This can Either Disrupt our charges [low charge] or Set us up for a gimp/KO us
offstage[full charge] ROBs will use this move. IT LITERALLY MAKES ROB :U
The Top: This little Gyro/Top will absorb our Aura Spheres, Let ROB Glide toss,
and even kill at high percentages if we have bad DI <_< they will abuse this little toy
To the max.
Nair: One of his killers. after a pause it makes a GINORMOUS hitbox around ROB
and it goes through the Front twice. it literally makes a Wall around ROB once it's out.
Fair: This is his main WOP move T_T he'll SH 2 of them for approaches and KO offstage with it
Be careful when he starts chaining them D: and find an opening to air dodge
oh and one more thing: his Upsmash > our Dair
ROB IS EVIL D: I seriously Really think this is in ROB's Favor heres Why:
1.HE MAKES USING AURA SPHERE A PAIN IN THE *** D:<
ROB can Reflect The Spheres with SideB, And can even Use his Top/Gyro to Absorb it T_T
PLUS his Jab,Ftilt, Dtilt,Fair,Nair,Upair, Dsmash, & Fsmash, cancel out BAS D:
*his Uptilt & Bair + Dair do too but only from the top & The Burners respectively so it's not too useful upair gaurds a little on the side so I listed it*
2.HE JUST DOESN'T DIE D:
He's Heavy,he has a 1337 Recovery, AND he can attack while recovering
WE CAN'T gimp him, and He LIVES forever. good thing ROB doesn't get an aura boost.
we'll have a hard time killing him <_< but he has a hard time killing in general so make use of that!
3.HIS AERIAL GAME RIVALS OURS D:
his Fair will Clashes with our Fair, his Nair beats out most of our air game if we don't hit him quick enoughOur Bair beats it though.... HOWEVER on the 2nd Swing it has a range simalar to our Bair D: I Believe Our Dair Clashes with his Upair but I haven't tested it. I remember it clashing in one match though.However our UpAir can beat his Dair :D not sure what happens if they both hit when Dair's Hitbox comes out though. Thats pretty much all I can give out but His Aerial game is just about as 1337 as ours
not better though. for sure.
4.HIS TOP IS HAX D:
This little thing is so annoying it deserves it's own Paragraph.like I said it Absorbs Our Aura Sphere X_X but it can do other stuff too once the Top is out. like a Tech chase T_T.
1.we roll around it = Smashed
2.we SH = Fair or Naired
3.we walk into it = Smashed D:
4.he can pick it up and Glide Toss
yeah and thats why I think this will be a uphill battle <_<
ROB has trouble Killing so make use of that. but you WILL have trouble killing ROB
it all comes down to who kills the other 1st............. but then again all fights are like dat lolz
a bit on his key moves
Dsmash: AVOID THIS LIKE THE PLAGUE D: it's his main punishment move and it almost
always comes after the Sidestep
DA LAZAH: This can Either Disrupt our charges [low charge] or Set us up for a gimp/KO us
offstage[full charge] ROBs will use this move. IT LITERALLY MAKES ROB :U
The Top: This little Gyro/Top will absorb our Aura Spheres, Let ROB Glide toss,
and even kill at high percentages if we have bad DI <_< they will abuse this little toy
To the max.
Nair: One of his killers. after a pause it makes a GINORMOUS hitbox around ROB
and it goes through the Front twice. it literally makes a Wall around ROB once it's out.
Fair: This is his main WOP move T_T he'll SH 2 of them for approaches and KO offstage with it
Be careful when he starts chaining them D: and find an opening to air dodge
oh and one more thing: his Upsmash > our Dair
betterthanbonds9
Smash Ace
what about the constant spacing from ftilt, i've only seen youtube vids, but that's a common move in all of them
hippiedude92
Smash Hero
Well I'm a Luigi mainer but I do fight ROBs everynow and then and Luigi and Lucario are still combo kings (no? xD).
From exprenice, Rob will start off the match charging his gyro for later in the battle. You don't want yourself ledgecamping since ROB has a beastly spike. Secondly, if your going to want to ko rob, you'll have to force him to use up all his fuel. To do that, your going to want to throw BAS/AS's at him, WoP Fairs. You'll have to repeatedly keep attacking him so he'll use his fuel. Also you can look for a Dair stage spike. Works well at higher %s.
Expect many spotdodges to Dsmashs. It's a multi-hit so you dont want yourself spotdodging either. Generally I think (?) Rob outranges you in terms of air game, ground game I'm not sure except for your beastly Fsmash hitbox.
If you do find yourself, geting WoP Fair'd, try DI-ing away, and throw a AS at him. And quickly get back to the stage.
I would post more but Im tired, and Lucario boards are full of wall of text monsters.
Lol @ Flame's wall of text, 1337 recovery xD
From exprenice, Rob will start off the match charging his gyro for later in the battle. You don't want yourself ledgecamping since ROB has a beastly spike. Secondly, if your going to want to ko rob, you'll have to force him to use up all his fuel. To do that, your going to want to throw BAS/AS's at him, WoP Fairs. You'll have to repeatedly keep attacking him so he'll use his fuel. Also you can look for a Dair stage spike. Works well at higher %s.
Expect many spotdodges to Dsmashs. It's a multi-hit so you dont want yourself spotdodging either. Generally I think (?) Rob outranges you in terms of air game, ground game I'm not sure except for your beastly Fsmash hitbox.
If you do find yourself, geting WoP Fair'd, try DI-ing away, and throw a AS at him. And quickly get back to the stage.
I would post more but Im tired, and Lucario boards are full of wall of text monsters.
Lol @ Flame's wall of text, 1337 recovery xD
R.O.B. will probably start out the match charging his gyro and following up with a laser soon. Try to avoid the gyro at all costs as it does more damage than you can imagine. The Laser is also a pain but the gyro is definately worse, so just shield them both. In the air, you can even airdodge the gyro and grab it yourself, so try doing that.
Lucario is forced to approach here, but it's not that bad as it seems. Try to close in after R.O.B. has fired his projectiles, and try some of the following:
F-Tilt approach
(F-air) -> D-air approach
B-air approach
Try to punish everything that R.O.B. does with a F-Smash, F-Tilt, or a D-Air.
After he's out of projectiles, you can safely charge your Sphere, which can be used in a F-Air -> Aura Sphere, B-Throw -> Aura Sphere, or in some other combination to finish R.O.B. off. R.O.B. has a reflector in his Side-B. If you charge up your Sphere for 99% (not fully), you can fake him out by letting him think he needs to do his Side-B NOW, resulting in you punishing him with the same Sphere.
Lucario needs to make use of his superior range on the ground (think F-Tilt, F-Smash). R.O.B. can't really answer those 2 moves. Never get too close, unless you're trying to grab-punish him. Look out for his D-Smash (mostly out of spot dodge) at all times, it racks up damage fairly quick. R.O.B.'s U-Smash can destroy us as well, but it can be easily avoided. Be warned though.
Basically, on the ground, Lucario has the clear advantage. In the air not so much.
R.O.B.'s F-air is just like ours. Can be spammed multiple times in one short hop, and has adequate range. Sadly, R.O.B.'s F-air has more priority than our F-air, so don't go in recklessy as you might get hit a couple of times. His B-Air is quick, and has devastating knock back, and is one of R.O.B.'s main killing moves against us. N-Air is killing as well, same deadly knock back, great priority, and the hitbox lingers like there's no tomorrow. D-Air is very hard to hit, but is a meteor smash, so look out. We can probably recover from it under 40%, but after that it's over. Do not stay on ledges for no reason, and always be ABOVE R.O.B. while recovering.
The only aerial we can safely use and SHOULD use to our advantage is D-Air. It can be used to punish / attack R.O.B. all the time. R.O.B.'s U-air kinda lets them down, and can't even hope to beat our D-Air. Still look out that you don't try and D-Air while he's doing his N-Air spin as you will get hit hard.
This brings me to the following: never ever ever try to attack R.O.B. while recovering. R.O.B. has such a beastly recovery he can just fly after you can do some F-airs or N-airs. Always DI + Air dodge and get to the edge as soon as possible. Look out for D-Air.
Fundamental moves for Lucario:
F-Smash
F-Tilt
D-Air
Aura Sphere
Fundamental moves for R.O.B.
Laser
Gyro
D-Smash
N-Air
B-Air
F-Air
If you look at the above list, you see all of our moves except one are ground based, and almost all of R.O.B.'s moves are aerial based. This doesn't directly mean you should never meet R.O.B. in the air, but try to stay away from his loud, hard hitting N-air and B-Air as much as possible, and stay above R.O.B. while combatting in the air. Don't forget to abuse our range on the ground.
R.O.B.'s main killing moves are his N-Air and D-air, but he can just chase us off the stage and finish us off with F-Air as well. D-Smash hurts, and don't be so stupid to get hit with one of his other smashes. Gyro has some decent knockback and great damage, and puts R.O.B. into air chase mode, so definately try to avoid that. However, if well played, Lucario can survive for a very long time. That's where you should hang on to, and will be key to winning this match. If you fail to survive and keep pressuring R.O.B., this will be a very tough match.
Finally, something about stages. Luigi's mansion is great as always, letting you survive even longer. Frigate Orphean is great too, supplying you with a wall you can cling on, and not so much room for R.O.B. to hide.
Avoid Lylat Cruise at all costs. The stage tilts, which isn't good for our Aura Sphere, and the gyro is very hard to avoid there. You are also kinda forced into aerial combat. The stage isn't large. Definately a no-no.
Overall, I would say this matchup is pretty even, maybe a slight advantage for R.O.B. 45/55 neutral is my bet.
Lucario is forced to approach here, but it's not that bad as it seems. Try to close in after R.O.B. has fired his projectiles, and try some of the following:
F-Tilt approach
(F-air) -> D-air approach
B-air approach
Try to punish everything that R.O.B. does with a F-Smash, F-Tilt, or a D-Air.
After he's out of projectiles, you can safely charge your Sphere, which can be used in a F-Air -> Aura Sphere, B-Throw -> Aura Sphere, or in some other combination to finish R.O.B. off. R.O.B. has a reflector in his Side-B. If you charge up your Sphere for 99% (not fully), you can fake him out by letting him think he needs to do his Side-B NOW, resulting in you punishing him with the same Sphere.
Lucario needs to make use of his superior range on the ground (think F-Tilt, F-Smash). R.O.B. can't really answer those 2 moves. Never get too close, unless you're trying to grab-punish him. Look out for his D-Smash (mostly out of spot dodge) at all times, it racks up damage fairly quick. R.O.B.'s U-Smash can destroy us as well, but it can be easily avoided. Be warned though.
Basically, on the ground, Lucario has the clear advantage. In the air not so much.
R.O.B.'s F-air is just like ours. Can be spammed multiple times in one short hop, and has adequate range. Sadly, R.O.B.'s F-air has more priority than our F-air, so don't go in recklessy as you might get hit a couple of times. His B-Air is quick, and has devastating knock back, and is one of R.O.B.'s main killing moves against us. N-Air is killing as well, same deadly knock back, great priority, and the hitbox lingers like there's no tomorrow. D-Air is very hard to hit, but is a meteor smash, so look out. We can probably recover from it under 40%, but after that it's over. Do not stay on ledges for no reason, and always be ABOVE R.O.B. while recovering.
The only aerial we can safely use and SHOULD use to our advantage is D-Air. It can be used to punish / attack R.O.B. all the time. R.O.B.'s U-air kinda lets them down, and can't even hope to beat our D-Air. Still look out that you don't try and D-Air while he's doing his N-Air spin as you will get hit hard.
This brings me to the following: never ever ever try to attack R.O.B. while recovering. R.O.B. has such a beastly recovery he can just fly after you can do some F-airs or N-airs. Always DI + Air dodge and get to the edge as soon as possible. Look out for D-Air.
Fundamental moves for Lucario:
F-Smash
F-Tilt
D-Air
Aura Sphere
Fundamental moves for R.O.B.
Laser
Gyro
D-Smash
N-Air
B-Air
F-Air
If you look at the above list, you see all of our moves except one are ground based, and almost all of R.O.B.'s moves are aerial based. This doesn't directly mean you should never meet R.O.B. in the air, but try to stay away from his loud, hard hitting N-air and B-Air as much as possible, and stay above R.O.B. while combatting in the air. Don't forget to abuse our range on the ground.
R.O.B.'s main killing moves are his N-Air and D-air, but he can just chase us off the stage and finish us off with F-Air as well. D-Smash hurts, and don't be so stupid to get hit with one of his other smashes. Gyro has some decent knockback and great damage, and puts R.O.B. into air chase mode, so definately try to avoid that. However, if well played, Lucario can survive for a very long time. That's where you should hang on to, and will be key to winning this match. If you fail to survive and keep pressuring R.O.B., this will be a very tough match.
Finally, something about stages. Luigi's mansion is great as always, letting you survive even longer. Frigate Orphean is great too, supplying you with a wall you can cling on, and not so much room for R.O.B. to hide.
Avoid Lylat Cruise at all costs. The stage tilts, which isn't good for our Aura Sphere, and the gyro is very hard to avoid there. You are also kinda forced into aerial combat. The stage isn't large. Definately a no-no.
Overall, I would say this matchup is pretty even, maybe a slight advantage for R.O.B. 45/55 neutral is my bet.
Samuelson
Smash Lord
This is one match up where LM is not a good choice. ROB's lasers go through the pillars and Lucario's AS cannot go through the pillars. LM is a perfect place for ROB to out camp pretty much all characters. I heard that Frigate isn't very good for Lucario in this match up also, i have no experience with this though. I like going to Jungle Japes with Luc but thats a personal thing, that stage is huge which is good for Lucario, plus ROB can't ledge camp on this stage as well as others.
Overswarm
is laughing at you
- Joined
- May 4, 2005
- Messages
- 21,181
http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=183492
I just did the Lucario matchup for ROB, so you guys might enjoy comparing notes.
I just did the Lucario matchup for ROB, so you guys might enjoy comparing notes.
The Halloween Captain
Smash Master
Seems pretty accurate, but Lucarios are known for linking jab jab into a grab of some sort, not a direct attack.
DuskMarthWater
Dude.
*phew* is the flame war over? That was a little bit incredulous.
I'm going to make a suggestion here before I say anything on R.O.B. GROW UP. All that has happened when other people from different boards start posting in here, is a massive crap-load of flame. Please stop. The Lucario boards do fine without the "help" of people from the other boards criticizing us. If you want to be helpful, then be HELPFUL, like Overswarm and Hippiedude for example. Flame and rude comments are not welcome here, especially not from mods.
OK...glad that's out of the way. Now, another match-up I know a lot about! WOOT!
R.O.B.-He's gay, so I made his title in pink.
Behavior-R.O.B's tend to be very campy. They have arguably the best projectiles in the game, and so they really don't have a need to approach Lucario. They can if they want though. They have a decent aerial game(coughcough*nair/fair*coughcough), but they tend to stay on the ground. They will use their side-B a whole lot more against us than other characters though, in hopes of reflecting our Aura Sphere. Don't let it happen to you, it's painful! Most R.O.B's will use their nair a lot too, because of its weird 360 degree hitbox. Off stage they will use their bair to recover as much as or in conjunction with their up-B. Probably their favorite thing to do is spot dodge--dsmash. Watch out for that. It's insanely fast.
Fundamental Moves/Strategy for R.O.B.: Alright...
Nair: I hate this move. A lot. It hits in a circle around him. As such, it's very hard to punish. Just stay away from him when he does this, and try to outspace/outprioritize him.
Fair: Yes, they like the fair too. It is similar to ours in the respect that it can be used multiple times in the same jump like in a combo, unless you DI backwards/down and get out of the chain. Watch out for this move.
Spot Dodge: Is this even necessary to post? That's what you're thinking I know. YES. They use it every chance they can. It has very little, if any, cool down lag. That's why it's so hard to punish and why he gets off a dsmash so fast out of it. You could probably fit 3 of his spot-dodges in one second. It's that fast. To punish it you should try moves with lingering or multiple hitboxes, like the dair or bair, but use moves you can space decent with too.
Dsmash: DUH. ROB's love this move more than their mother(mostly because they have no mother, but if they did have one they'd still love it more than her). This move is OBSCENELY fast. If it doesn't hit you, it's over as quickly as his spot-dodge. If it does hit you with the whole attack, it's still over in less than a second. They will use this after spot-dodge all the time. You can spot dodge it yourself though(HA!), but that just means you're too close to him in the first place.
Usmash: This move is also very fast. It has a decent amount of killing potential, but it's not uber powerful. It's speed will make up for that though. DO NOT be on a platform above a ROB, because this move will totally destroy you.
Laser: This move goes without saying. They will use this move more than the gyro if they do not want to be punished(I'll explain why later). It can be angled too, and if you are in the magnifying glass on the edges of the stage, they will try to give you that extra push to KO you with the laser. Air dodge it.
Gyro: This move is extremely powerful. But if you shield it, it disappears. This is not a good thing, by any means. That just means that ROB can pull out another gyro and throw it at you. Spam much? Be careful with this one. Try stealing it. I'll elaborate on that later.
I think that's all of his fundamental moves...that's a lot!
Lucario Strategies/How to Win: Hopefully I can pack a bunch of info. in here, so pay close attention!
Lucario can do a lot more to R.O.B. than he can to G&W. R.O.B. also has trouble killing you, so abuse your Aura advantage! You can space well against him, so please do. His side-B will reflect your Aura Sphere, so be careful about using that. It's best to use when he is in the air. That way even if he does reflect it, you'll be falling down while your reflected AS goes right over you. Yay? Anyways, at the least if he doesn't reflect it(which he probably won't in the air), then he'll either get hit and die or airdodge and lose some ground. However, if he's recovering he cant airdodge, so blast away if he uses his up-b. That's a fairly simple way to gimp him. And try to ledge-spike him if you think you can pull it off. Your AS does not beat out the laser ever. It's kind of weird actually, because the laser and AS do not even clang, they just go right through each other, so try to take advantage of that when your AS is really big and deadly. The gyro clashes with the AS and just disappears. I don't know if it ever beats out the gyro(I don't think so), but anyways, the projectile game is pretty even. His recovery is very good, unless you gimp him like I mentioned earlier. If ROB uses his up-B he can't airdodge, so make sure to outspace him with your aerials and especially AS and keep him off the stage.
Now I'm gonna do something like I did with G&W and cover specific areas.
Something to consider doing to R.O.B. is to simply steal his gyro. It's not very hard to do. Now, you must be thinking, why would I do that? Doesn't that limit your movement? Only a little bit. The only thing you can't do while holding the gyro is grab and ground attacks. You can still do all of your aerials and you still have your special moves. It's worth it, because when he wants to shoot his gyro...he can't! It's very frustrating to ROB, so abuse that. Now...how to do aerials while holding the gyro? Simply push Z right before you do the aerial, then do your aerial WITH the A button(no c-stick) so that you catch the gyro again. If you do this, you will let go of the gyro, do your aerial, and then catch it again as you do it. If you can master this...wow, you're awesome. You can obviously still throw it at him too. And your special moves are more than enough to handle most ROB's. If you're holding the gyro, you now have the advantage in terms of projectile strength, so AS is much better, and the FP is crazy powerful. Anyways, work on mind-games while holding the gyro. It's amazing.
Now...ROB's spot dodge. It's probably the best spot-dodge in the game. It's ridiculously fast. If you're right next to him when he does it...you're too close. He'll either do a dsmash(most likely) or he will grab you(less likely and dependent on whether or not you're behind him and how close you actually are). You have a lot of options here. If you know he is going to do a dsmash right after the spot dodge, then time a DT correctly! At the very least you won't get hit(as long as you control it and move away from him so he can't grab you). You have about a 50:50 chance of hitting him with it, and since ROB is relatively light, this can potentially KO him. If you don't time it right, you'll either get hit with the dsmash, or you won't activate the DT and get punished. Be careful if you're not good with this. Go practice with friends in some friendlies or something. You can also just jump over his head and do a dair. Sometimes that will hit him and sometimes it won't. You can do a f-tilt because of the second hit-box, or you can do a bair, which has a lingering hitbox. Just always remember to use moves that you can space well with, so even if he spot-dodges the whole attack, you're still out of the range of his dsmash.
I think that's it on specific moves. Now for some more general stuff...
ROB's up smash is very fast and it's very effective, partly because it's strong and partly because our vertical knock-back resistance isn't as good as our horizontal. Keep off of platforms, because he can spam that thing just as quickly as his dsmash or spot-dodge. Seriously, do your very best to keep him above you. If he is in the air, pursuing him is definitely not always the best choice. If he uses that nair at a certain height...you are guaranteed certain death. Sometimes just waiting for him to come down is the best choice. You don't necessarily have to wait for him to land, but just for him to get lower. Of course, you can still pursue, but be wary of his nair. If he does his nair as he approaches you, you can probably beat it out with a fsmash(I don't think AS does. Maybe at higher percentages it can). His recovery is very good. However it does have one HUGE weak spot, and that is that he can't air dodge while doing it. ABUSE!!! Shoot lots of AS at him, especially fully charged ones. And use aerials like the bair that have more range when he's recovering. His tilts have a LOT of range, and they are all very fast. Stay clear of them. The dtilt can easily rack up damage, and the ftilt has more range than his smashes do. His uair is also a damage racker, but it doesn't have very much knockback. Again, I think that you can tap DI rapidly to the side to get out of it, or up if you have a double jump. He can gimp you with his dair, so please be careful of that. It won't happen very often though. Oh, and if you do happen to get meteor smashed by ANYONE, then learn to meteor cancel. It's a very helpful technique. If you don't know how, then ask later.
And that's it for strategies. Helpful? Hopefully!
Stages: I'm not sure if there are any really good stages against a ROB player. Really not sure. Well...maybe this one(correct me if I'm wrong Timbers!)
Yoshi's Island: This stage is really big, and the top platform is fairly tall when it tilts. That tilt can keep you out of ROB's range until you can get off it. So...maybe a good stage against ROB?
However, stages to avoid:
Battlefield: RUN AWAY. Don't ever pick this stage. Period. Platforms **** you.
Lylat Cruise: Again, platforms. ANY stage with platforms like this is a stage that you will probably lose on. The only exceptions are Smashville and Yoshi's Island, because Smashville has only one platform that moves, and Yoshi's Island has only one platform that tilts.
Yea, that's all on stages.
Overall Match-up: I would say that this match-up is a lot more even than most seem to think. It's either 50:50 or slightly in ROB's favor, 55:45. If you space well, and abuse his difficulty with killing you, you should be alright. Plus you can steal his gyro and be virtually unaffected by it, except screw over his favorite projectile. However, he can gimp you, so don't get gimped!
Thanks for the link to your thread Overswarm, it was very useful and has a lot of good information in it! I like it a lot. And thanks for just posting stuff like that, not arguing with us.
Man, that took a long time. I'm trying to multi-task here. Holy crap. That took forever. Anyways, there's my info. on R.O.B. If you didn't check out Overswarm's guide on R.O.B. that he just posted, then go check out the Lucario section of that. It's really good.
Erich out.
I'm going to make a suggestion here before I say anything on R.O.B. GROW UP. All that has happened when other people from different boards start posting in here, is a massive crap-load of flame. Please stop. The Lucario boards do fine without the "help" of people from the other boards criticizing us. If you want to be helpful, then be HELPFUL, like Overswarm and Hippiedude for example. Flame and rude comments are not welcome here, especially not from mods.
OK...glad that's out of the way. Now, another match-up I know a lot about! WOOT!
R.O.B.-He's gay, so I made his title in pink.
Behavior-R.O.B's tend to be very campy. They have arguably the best projectiles in the game, and so they really don't have a need to approach Lucario. They can if they want though. They have a decent aerial game(coughcough*nair/fair*coughcough), but they tend to stay on the ground. They will use their side-B a whole lot more against us than other characters though, in hopes of reflecting our Aura Sphere. Don't let it happen to you, it's painful! Most R.O.B's will use their nair a lot too, because of its weird 360 degree hitbox. Off stage they will use their bair to recover as much as or in conjunction with their up-B. Probably their favorite thing to do is spot dodge--dsmash. Watch out for that. It's insanely fast.
Fundamental Moves/Strategy for R.O.B.: Alright...
Nair: I hate this move. A lot. It hits in a circle around him. As such, it's very hard to punish. Just stay away from him when he does this, and try to outspace/outprioritize him.
Fair: Yes, they like the fair too. It is similar to ours in the respect that it can be used multiple times in the same jump like in a combo, unless you DI backwards/down and get out of the chain. Watch out for this move.
Spot Dodge: Is this even necessary to post? That's what you're thinking I know. YES. They use it every chance they can. It has very little, if any, cool down lag. That's why it's so hard to punish and why he gets off a dsmash so fast out of it. You could probably fit 3 of his spot-dodges in one second. It's that fast. To punish it you should try moves with lingering or multiple hitboxes, like the dair or bair, but use moves you can space decent with too.
Dsmash: DUH. ROB's love this move more than their mother(mostly because they have no mother, but if they did have one they'd still love it more than her). This move is OBSCENELY fast. If it doesn't hit you, it's over as quickly as his spot-dodge. If it does hit you with the whole attack, it's still over in less than a second. They will use this after spot-dodge all the time. You can spot dodge it yourself though(HA!), but that just means you're too close to him in the first place.
Usmash: This move is also very fast. It has a decent amount of killing potential, but it's not uber powerful. It's speed will make up for that though. DO NOT be on a platform above a ROB, because this move will totally destroy you.
Laser: This move goes without saying. They will use this move more than the gyro if they do not want to be punished(I'll explain why later). It can be angled too, and if you are in the magnifying glass on the edges of the stage, they will try to give you that extra push to KO you with the laser. Air dodge it.
Gyro: This move is extremely powerful. But if you shield it, it disappears. This is not a good thing, by any means. That just means that ROB can pull out another gyro and throw it at you. Spam much? Be careful with this one. Try stealing it. I'll elaborate on that later.
I think that's all of his fundamental moves...that's a lot!
Lucario Strategies/How to Win: Hopefully I can pack a bunch of info. in here, so pay close attention!
Lucario can do a lot more to R.O.B. than he can to G&W. R.O.B. also has trouble killing you, so abuse your Aura advantage! You can space well against him, so please do. His side-B will reflect your Aura Sphere, so be careful about using that. It's best to use when he is in the air. That way even if he does reflect it, you'll be falling down while your reflected AS goes right over you. Yay? Anyways, at the least if he doesn't reflect it(which he probably won't in the air), then he'll either get hit and die or airdodge and lose some ground. However, if he's recovering he cant airdodge, so blast away if he uses his up-b. That's a fairly simple way to gimp him. And try to ledge-spike him if you think you can pull it off. Your AS does not beat out the laser ever. It's kind of weird actually, because the laser and AS do not even clang, they just go right through each other, so try to take advantage of that when your AS is really big and deadly. The gyro clashes with the AS and just disappears. I don't know if it ever beats out the gyro(I don't think so), but anyways, the projectile game is pretty even. His recovery is very good, unless you gimp him like I mentioned earlier. If ROB uses his up-B he can't airdodge, so make sure to outspace him with your aerials and especially AS and keep him off the stage.
Now I'm gonna do something like I did with G&W and cover specific areas.
Something to consider doing to R.O.B. is to simply steal his gyro. It's not very hard to do. Now, you must be thinking, why would I do that? Doesn't that limit your movement? Only a little bit. The only thing you can't do while holding the gyro is grab and ground attacks. You can still do all of your aerials and you still have your special moves. It's worth it, because when he wants to shoot his gyro...he can't! It's very frustrating to ROB, so abuse that. Now...how to do aerials while holding the gyro? Simply push Z right before you do the aerial, then do your aerial WITH the A button(no c-stick) so that you catch the gyro again. If you do this, you will let go of the gyro, do your aerial, and then catch it again as you do it. If you can master this...wow, you're awesome. You can obviously still throw it at him too. And your special moves are more than enough to handle most ROB's. If you're holding the gyro, you now have the advantage in terms of projectile strength, so AS is much better, and the FP is crazy powerful. Anyways, work on mind-games while holding the gyro. It's amazing.
Now...ROB's spot dodge. It's probably the best spot-dodge in the game. It's ridiculously fast. If you're right next to him when he does it...you're too close. He'll either do a dsmash(most likely) or he will grab you(less likely and dependent on whether or not you're behind him and how close you actually are). You have a lot of options here. If you know he is going to do a dsmash right after the spot dodge, then time a DT correctly! At the very least you won't get hit(as long as you control it and move away from him so he can't grab you). You have about a 50:50 chance of hitting him with it, and since ROB is relatively light, this can potentially KO him. If you don't time it right, you'll either get hit with the dsmash, or you won't activate the DT and get punished. Be careful if you're not good with this. Go practice with friends in some friendlies or something. You can also just jump over his head and do a dair. Sometimes that will hit him and sometimes it won't. You can do a f-tilt because of the second hit-box, or you can do a bair, which has a lingering hitbox. Just always remember to use moves that you can space well with, so even if he spot-dodges the whole attack, you're still out of the range of his dsmash.
I think that's it on specific moves. Now for some more general stuff...
ROB's up smash is very fast and it's very effective, partly because it's strong and partly because our vertical knock-back resistance isn't as good as our horizontal. Keep off of platforms, because he can spam that thing just as quickly as his dsmash or spot-dodge. Seriously, do your very best to keep him above you. If he is in the air, pursuing him is definitely not always the best choice. If he uses that nair at a certain height...you are guaranteed certain death. Sometimes just waiting for him to come down is the best choice. You don't necessarily have to wait for him to land, but just for him to get lower. Of course, you can still pursue, but be wary of his nair. If he does his nair as he approaches you, you can probably beat it out with a fsmash(I don't think AS does. Maybe at higher percentages it can). His recovery is very good. However it does have one HUGE weak spot, and that is that he can't air dodge while doing it. ABUSE!!! Shoot lots of AS at him, especially fully charged ones. And use aerials like the bair that have more range when he's recovering. His tilts have a LOT of range, and they are all very fast. Stay clear of them. The dtilt can easily rack up damage, and the ftilt has more range than his smashes do. His uair is also a damage racker, but it doesn't have very much knockback. Again, I think that you can tap DI rapidly to the side to get out of it, or up if you have a double jump. He can gimp you with his dair, so please be careful of that. It won't happen very often though. Oh, and if you do happen to get meteor smashed by ANYONE, then learn to meteor cancel. It's a very helpful technique. If you don't know how, then ask later.
And that's it for strategies. Helpful? Hopefully!
Stages: I'm not sure if there are any really good stages against a ROB player. Really not sure. Well...maybe this one(correct me if I'm wrong Timbers!)
Yoshi's Island: This stage is really big, and the top platform is fairly tall when it tilts. That tilt can keep you out of ROB's range until you can get off it. So...maybe a good stage against ROB?
However, stages to avoid:
Battlefield: RUN AWAY. Don't ever pick this stage. Period. Platforms **** you.
Lylat Cruise: Again, platforms. ANY stage with platforms like this is a stage that you will probably lose on. The only exceptions are Smashville and Yoshi's Island, because Smashville has only one platform that moves, and Yoshi's Island has only one platform that tilts.
Yea, that's all on stages.
Overall Match-up: I would say that this match-up is a lot more even than most seem to think. It's either 50:50 or slightly in ROB's favor, 55:45. If you space well, and abuse his difficulty with killing you, you should be alright. Plus you can steal his gyro and be virtually unaffected by it, except screw over his favorite projectile. However, he can gimp you, so don't get gimped!
Thanks for the link to your thread Overswarm, it was very useful and has a lot of good information in it! I like it a lot. And thanks for just posting stuff like that, not arguing with us.
Man, that took a long time. I'm trying to multi-task here. Holy crap. That took forever. Anyways, there's my info. on R.O.B. If you didn't check out Overswarm's guide on R.O.B. that he just posted, then go check out the Lucario section of that. It's really good.
Erich out.
tedward2000
Smash Champion
Rob review's = WALLS OF TEXT.
(haha, jeepy have fun going thru that little mess)
-t2
(haha, jeepy have fun going thru that little mess)
-t2
indianunit
Smash Journeyman
Lol I thought I was going to have to post more information but I guess I don't need to.
What if you're a ROB main like Overswarm?
DuskMarthWater
Dude.
No no...you quoted everything but the last part of that paragraph, which is the most important part. Overswarm's OK, because he posted stuff and then left. He didn't stick around and argue with us. He also posted a link to his amazing ROB guide. Stuff like that is good, but stuff like what Simna did is NOT OK or cool in any way.
indianunit
Smash Journeyman
Oh ok just testing you.
Nitrix
Smash Ace
Its funny how both of these posts are from the same user....
Jeepy Sol
Smash Ace
Erich has been posting useful information from the beginning. He's allowed to be silly sometimes.