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Lucario is sweeping? An aggressive guide to Lucario (99% complete)

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
Before we start I would like to address 2 things.

1) http://www.smashboards.com/showthread.php?t=173703 – Phil gets credit for this link, it’s useful. Read it.
2) This thread will be updated until I feel that it is completed. I am currently writing this and its 4 in the morning x_x. But just to state this early, this thread is not done.

Lucario to many is a well balanced character. And with the new tier list out, some of us felt like Lucario has been underrated. This however is due to the fact of our movement of the metagame. Lucario to many is a passive character, and with the current metagame moving as fast as it is, it seems like Lucario is falling behind. This is not his fault as a character though, it is our fault as a community to show his true potential as a worthy, competitive character. This will is my first small individual, but defiantly not the last contribution to the boards. I present the one of many changes that will help with Lucario’s everywhere,

Lucario is sweeping? How to play aggressive with Lucario.


Lucario has always been a passive character, mainly because his ground game tends to be a bit slower than others, but that does not stop him from being aggressive. This guide will go over:

1) The Basics (Agg.1)
2) Traps/ Baiting (Agg.2)
3) How to be the harasser, and not the harass-e (Evasion) (Agg.3)
4) Approaching with Lucario and how to stop approaches (Agg.4)
5) List of what style to use against each character (Agg.5)



_________________________________________

*The Basics*
(Agg.1)

Lucario, despite the fact of his long-winded smash attacks, can be a pretty fast character. The first thing to keep in mind while trying to move into your opponent is your character’s speed, and safety. You do not want to put yourself into a situation that may cost you damage, or put yourself into a situation that may cost you a stock. Some examples are, but not limited to:

Throwing F-air into the floor
D-airing your opponents shield
Landing in front of your opponent while he has the opportunity to damage you
Jumping off the map against a character that has a high possibility of gimping you

Basically you want to maintain speed, but at the same time leave yourself options for an escape route. Some suggestions to leaving yourself safe are:

Spacing
Landing behind your opponent
**Not chasing after your opponent when you know you are at a disadvantage for landing a hit**
Taking what deals more damage than trying to setup a mind game (ex: using D-throw over U-throw at low %’s)

The main attacks your will be using when you attack your opponent is F-air, Nair, AS, Utilt, Jab, and D-air. Some attack strings that I like to do commonly is F-air> N-air> U-tilt or F-air > N-air> Dash grab. At low %’s F-air > N-air will combo into another F-air> N-air.

*Resetting Yourself/Map Positioning*

The one thing important when trying to pressure your opponent is map control. If you control the map that you play, your opponent will have fewer options on what they can do to challenge you. *For most cases, controlling the middle of the map is the best idea.* When you control the middle of the map, you leave your opponent only a small window of movement and opportunities to do harm to you. It makes your opponent just a little more concerned about having themselves tossed off the map. This works best for neutrals and flat stages (IE: Smashville, FD, BattleField)

Now it comes to mind of “What happens if you are on an asymmetrical stage, Where the middle can vary?” And if that really did come to mind then good, if not its ok, that’s why I stated it. *If there is no middle to hold down, then the next best option is to hold where your opponent wants to be most.* Lets take for example that you are a Lucario player going against a Marth (sorry for the Marth talk, I play against him a lot since I’m in Pierce’s crew) and you are on frigate orphion, Marth knows that with the platform on the first form of the stage, it makes a good place to hold since he gets a tipper F-smash from the top. Also since there is no ledge on one side, he wants to hold down the left side so it is harder to abuse his recovery. That would be the place you would want to hold down from him getting to. If you pressure Marth (I still lol) to the right side where he has no ledge to grab if he gets tossed off the map, he will be more concerned about trying to position himself into a better spot.
______________________________________________

*Traps/ Baiting* (Agg.2)

Traps and baiting… One of my favorite things to do with Lucario is to trap and bait. When it comes down to this there are many possibilities. For anyone who is not familiar with the terms,
A Quick definition would look like this:

Brawl Traps and Baiting: To make your opponent “Think” you are going to do one thing and then completely do something else.

*Traps*

I’ll start with traps. When you trap your opponent, it leaves him in a bad position that locks out most of his options and resorts to retreating. One of my favorite traps is landing behind your opponent. When you land behind your opponent, you tend to get a good feeling inside saying “I got you now *****” Some things that could be done when you land behind your opponent are grabbing them, U-Tilt, Forward B, or to simply retreat and find another option. This option works best if you throw a fair at them and they shield it. What I like to do if they shield is F-air> fast fall N-air> Grab or F-air> Fast Fall Air Dodge> Grab (can be followed with other options mentioned) another simple trap is throwing a retreating Short Hop empty F-air > AS. Most people like to approach after a fair because there is a window to get hit if you miss, and that leaves them open for a nice AS to their mouth. Now here is the question “If the shield the AS, Wouldn’t they have time to hit you?” and for a while there thought that too, but I want you to keep this in mind. When you have a fully charged AS, and they shield it, they can’t come in range in time. In most cases if you get hit after doing it, its because you were in range of their attack to begin with. Here is the other property of the fully charged AS. If they are not in range and they PS it (Perfect Shield/ Power Shield) it leaves your Opponent in a freeze animation on the PS. What I mean by that is if they PS the AS, they will have a little bit of lag after it, while you are still dropping to the floor. If you don’t take my word for it, test it the worse thing that can happen is I’m wrong, right? Anyway back to what I was saying. The best thing to do after this option is to roll away, and setup your next plan for attacking them.
More to come for the traps section ^_^.

*Baiting*
Traps and baiting are close together in the same meaning, but have two different purposes. When I talk about baiting, I’m talking about forcing your opponent to air dodge. So this is separated from Traps because it’s a special kind of trap.

How to bait your opponent to air dodge:

This one is simple but yet complicated. Normally when someone is in the air unwillingly, they would want to get back to the floor as soon as possible. For most, people like to Air dodge past your opponent to go to the floor. This is where baiting comes in. The proper way to bait some one with Lucario is to not chase them, but to let them try to air dodge past you. What I find most useful to make them air dodge is to jump after them then Empty U-air, then when they try to air dodge past you D-air them. Another simple trap is to jump and again Empty U-air then fast fall into a D-smash (although this 2nd one is less reliable.) The 2nd option to baiting the air dodge is just jumping and waiting for them to do something. Normally when you wait they will try to pass you, the best way to punish with this option is just fast fall N-air.
__________________________________

*How to be the harasser, and not the harasser (Evasion)* (Agg.3)

In this current meta game, there are a lot of characters who like to take onto the offencive side. Most characters Lucario can play aggressive against them and come out on top, but some characters Lucario has a hard time dealing with when he is playing the aggressive roll. This section will explain how to help remedy that issue and come up with a solution to help Lucario come on top.

Some characters that Lucario has an issue to play against while playing aggressive is (In order of difficulty)

Marth
Mr. Game and Watch
King DeDeDe
Donkey Kong
**Possibly** R.O.B

Come of these characters above either have a better aggro game then you, or can punish you if you rush them.

To win some of these matchups, you need to know how to evade tough situations. Therefore, I will explain some proper ways to have evasion with Lucario.

*Lucario’s standard evasion method*

To many Lucario’s all over the globe, His standard evasion method is walling your opponent so they cannot come into you area. This method involves a frequent use of AS to pressure your opponent from approaching your “Bubble” easily. Moves and techniques that come into play while walling with Lucario are:

Empty F-airs
AS
F-tilt
Spacing F-smashes at full range (makes it incredibly difficult to punish)
Retreating Bair’s

Make sure that if you use this method you are spacing for as much possible range for all of yoru attacks. Mixing these techniques makes it hard for your opponent to reach you, and if they do come into your area, your best option is to retreat to an empty part of the stage and continue to use the same method. That’s Short and simple, right?


A video will be posted later for a standard wall in this spot. It shouldn’t be that hard to find one, since this “was” the standard way of playing. Yay for aggression =D

*Lucario’s Aggressive evasion method*


Now some of you might be thinking “How can you be aggressive if you are running away?” and that is a very good question too, unless you are running away to open a can of whoop-*** onto them. Every character has a weak spot, as well as an opening between attacks. That much information stated is what you need to know to pull this method off.

This Method is like baiting your opponent into a bad situation, but its you that is making the retreating option. The idea of this method is to simply run away (fun right?) Like I said, every character has an opening and every character as a weak spot. How you abuse that fact is key. When you are rushing, most people tend to space improperly. The whole idea is to space your opponent in enough range that he is not too far from you so when he is open up you can hit him, but to keep out of range so you do not get hurt. Let’s take Marth for example. (sorry again) Marth is a very fast character who can eat your hits, and not to mention he will trade if he has to with much delight in his soul since he hits pretty hard. Marth also has move that auto cancel into other moves and an amazing air and ground pressure game. Sucks doesn’t it? Yea… for Marth, you just learned a new way to abuse his open spots. In between fairs Marth has a open spot. If he is rushing you with F-air, move out of his range and then come back and attack him when his fair is over. Just an example, there are many other situations, but it’s a useful thing to state. Also I would like to add this Did you know fact:

Did you know that: Marth can’t short hop over you F-smash? Just saying…

This method takes some anticipation on what your opponent is going to do, but that’s not saying much. Almost every method in this game takes anticipation to pull off attacks anyways. =D

_____________________________________________________


Approaching with Lucario and how to stop approaches
- iRJi (Agg.4)

Now that the basics are over, it’s time to teach you how to approach, and how to stop approaches with Lucario. This section is going to be decently short, because this are just in-game scenarios as well as it does not involve a playstyle. This is strictly just for knowledge purposes.

Lucario has moves and mindgames that are not only versatile, but safe. I will explain some scenarios, but each option to approach varies among the character that you are going against. Also it is appropriate to mention that it will also vary on your play style. Find your playstyle, and work with it to your feel it is perfect.

Approaching with Lucario. (Air game)

Landing behind your opponent is always a good option to have them off guard. If you attempt anapproach, SHFair to FFNair is always a promising combination. If your opponent shields the Fair, attempt to land behind them with a FFNair or an Air dodge. From there you have a few options.

If they are still shielding, you can attempt a retreating pivot grab. If you use a pivot grab, it gives you space just in case they decide to use a different option to attempt to make them safe, and will minimize the punishment options they can throw at you. Also a good option would to try to FP them. If they hold shield it will grab them, and if they try to spot dodge, they have a possibility to get hit with the 2nd part of FP. If you hit their shield with Fair, and decide that you don’t want to land near them, you can simply use your 2nd jump to retreat away.

Another option while landing behind them is to Utilt if they decide to drop their shield. Although it is not safe on block, it is your fastest move available while you are on the floor. Another option would be to jab them, and then follow up with a grab. Jab has follow ups and normally it is the better thing to do if you decide to attack since it’s safer than using Utilt.

On slower, and more bulky characters, Fair to Bair will work wonders (Ex. D3). If fair does not connect, Bair will push them out of the way to have you in a safer situation. Of course this is for people who have slower Option for people who land behind them, and it is not advised to do against characters who have a way of punishing it (Ex: Marth, MetaKnight) Although, it is a good option for mix-ups.

Approaching with Lucario (ground game)

Lucario’s ground approach game is a bit slower, but has almost the safe effectiveness as his air game if utilized properly.

Using Ftilt on characters with Marth’s range or less is a good option (meaning, that will cover a lot of the characters in the game). Ftilt on a lot of people will be safe on block if you space it properly, and will give you other options to follow up since they will have to find a way to get into your area for attacking. Jabbing people will also work wonders on people who get too close and hit your shield. Running into your opponents area and then shielding their attack (better if you Perfect shield) will open a plethora of options. If you Perfect shield their attack, you can grab, Fair, Jab to follow up and sometimes Dtilt to lead to other follow ups.

Lucario getting approached (Air game)


Proud to say that there are only a few characters in the game who can someone shut down Lucario in the air. Lucario when he is getting approached has one thing that many characters dream to have, Lingering Hitboxes. to pass Lucario’s Lingering hitboxes is tough, since they stay out so long, and for some of them you can attack with a different move while another hit box is out. This makes walling with Lucario a very good option.

Throwing Empty Fairs and retreating Bairs are a good thing to do. Bair’s hit box while you are retreating is safe, and while the hit box is out, you are moving away into a safer spot. Throwing Empty Fair’s while spacing will make your opponent try to challenge you, and if they miss that means they are open for a world of pain. An option after an empty fair is AS, simply because if they try to dash in, there only option will be shielding (Use for mindgames only). If they don’t perfect shield, you will have enough time to put yourself in a safer place. You can Dair after the empty fair also, if they decide to rush in.

Lucario getting approached (ground game)

Same thing applies with the lingering hitboxes discussed above. This is where AS normally shines. It creates a wall of projectiles that your opponent will have to either jump over, or shield until they get into range. You can also Ftilt here as a defensive option of they get to close, as well as Fsmash. Fsmash has IASA frames, so you are able to retreat out of it easier then other moves. Lucario's moves in general has IASA Frames. Normally Jabbing or Dtilting after the Fsmash is a good way to have you opponent off guard.

Like I said, this section is relatively short, because most of this is in game scenarios, as well as it varies between your opponent, and your play-style, But it doesn’t hurt to know a few out of the box options.
____________________________________________

List of what style to use against each character
- iRJi (Agg.5)

Passive

D3
Ice Climbers
Game & Watch

Passive aggressive

Marth
Snake
DK
Metaknight
Wario
Pit
Olimar
Jigglypuff
Luigi
Sonic
Yoshi
Falco
Kirby
Wolf
Squritle
Lucario
Mario
Toon Link

Aggressive

Pikachu
Captian Falcon
Ness
Lucus
Sheik
Gannon
Rob
Peach
Zelda
Samus
Fox
Charzard
Ivysaur
Ike
Bowser
Diddy
Link
 

hough123

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
627
Good guide! It needs more meat on it's bones; but it's new, so I'll give you a break =3

You should add some disadvantages to Lucario's Aggro game, like how his aura boost hurts him when he's in the lead.
 

Saltix

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2008
Messages
1,092
Location
Georgia
Not knocking your guide or anything, since youre taking some initiative to help out, but I don't think THIS much needs to be put into it. To me, it all comes down to two things:

Spacing
Pressuring

Space so you can't get hit, and pressure like a police interrogation. Lucario's got good range, and a good pressuring tool. Abuse it. I play like this, and it works for me. Too many Lucario players focus on their "strings", and our character isn't getting any better.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
Not knocking your guide or anything, since you're taking some initiative to help out, but I don't think THIS much needs to be put into it. To me, it all comes down to two things:

Spacing
Pressuring

Space so you can't get hit, and pressure like a police interrogation. Lucario's got good range, and a good pressuring tool. Abuse it. I play like this, and it works for me. Too many Lucario players focus on their "strings", and our character isn't getting any better.
Although that this might be true, its also false at the same time. Lately we talked about a point where he is too passive, ESP. when spamming his AS for pressure. Its not that I'm saying that aggressive play come down spacing and pressure, because it does. I even state that above. But I'm just adding a different side to the aggressive play. Since most people play passive, they might not know how to play aggressive that well. And because they might not know, its one of my jobs to be helpful and try to explain every aspect of it. Even if its just simply throwing an AS.
 

VanillaWaffle

Smash Apprentice
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Sep 16, 2008
Messages
176
Location
Chambersburg PA
not often you hear anyone talking about playing an aggressive anything in this game. good stuff im glad someone else finally grew a pair.
 

G-Beast

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i will try to help as much as possible, i am not satisfied with Lucario's new spot and i have been slacking a fair bit lately
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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Sep 9, 2008
Messages
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Zucco, I saw you play when you was at terrabite with DM. I know you have some videos, Post some =D

Edit: Btw, people who view this, post your thoughts.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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Messages
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nice ^_^. that was funn stuff to watch, a bit laggy on the recording though lol.
 

LordoftheMorning

Smash Champion
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Location
Las Vegas, Nevada
Next you should talk about Lucario's awesome lingering hitboxes and how good they are at setting up pressure. Things like Fsmash, Usmash, Ftilt, and every single one of his aerials are excellent at punishing airdodges. If you want me to write a section or two, let me know. I'd like to do a bit more now that we're actually going somewhere.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
Next you should talk about Lucario's awesome lingering hitboxes and how good they are at setting up pressure. Things like Fsmash, Usmash, Ftilt, and every single one of his aerials are excellent at punishing airdodges. If you want me to write a section or two, let me know. I'd like to do a bit more now that we're actually going somewhere.
Actually, I would love that. I just wanted to start this off. I want this as a community project, so any help will be appreciated =]
 

LordoftheMorning

Smash Champion
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Messages
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Actually, I would love that. I just wanted to start this off. I want this as a community project, so any help will be appreciated =]
K, bro. I accidentally finished a major part of it while talking about Usmash in a different thread. I'll add onto it to make it an all-purpose air-dodge punishing guide later on.
 

hough123

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
627
A project? I'm willing to help, what can I do?
I play a mean mathcario; so if numbers are needed, I'm your guy ;3
 

Slido

Smash Cadet
Joined
Dec 21, 2007
Messages
57
Location
Granite City,IL
Hey guys, I'm willing to contribute any way I can to help improve our game, even if its only a little.

Now about being fully aggressive. It just doesn't seem like it would be a good idea all of the time, but helping to improve his aggressive side sounds like a great idea.

Here is a vid of my playstyle.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bkUrHaMDrs8&feature=channel_page

I consider myself passive/aggressive, but I hope this helps anyway.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
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A project? I'm willing to help, what can I do?
I play a mean mathcario; so if numbers are needed, I'm your guy ;3
By the looks of it, a whole new basic guide is prob needed, but that is a long story from now. The best way to help is if you have any recent videos of you playing, you can post them here and i will look at them and post them with an opinion. Anyone and everyone is useful, and this is to make everyone a bit better and stronger. The whole purpose of this thread is to inspire Players to play with a different play style from what they normally play with. Meaning, the best way to help is if you decide to play aggressive, post up the vid and i will be glad to put it up on the references.

Stay close with the numbers though, I actually might need Phil, you and a few others to help me with something later.
^_^

Edit: Updated on videos.
 

Zucco

Smash Master
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May 1, 2009
Messages
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Slidos video is malformed in the first post RJ. just thought you'd like to know so you could fix it.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,423
Slidos video is malformed in the first post RJ. just thought you'd like to know so you could fix it.
Ty for the heads up. Should be fixed now ^_^

Edit: I come to think about how people can contribute, and as of right now the best way to actually help me with this thread is to post some traps that you commonly like to do to leave your opponent open. Sharing knowledge about how to harass your opponent and make them open is always a good thing =]

Edit 2: Also working on the next section. will be up in a day or 2 ^_^
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
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Messages
1,540
when they get out of the pseudo CG an AS is still a viable option. oh and I dont see Dtilt used enough in vids. it has ok range and killing power. it can also come from a fair nair string.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,423
when they get out of the pseudo CG an AS is still a viable option. oh and I dont see Dtilt used enough in vids. it has ok range and killing power. it can also come from a fair nair string.
That is something I actually don't do enough lmfao. I need to. Hmm... Can some one test the kill power of Dtilt for me? Test once on MK, since he is the most problematic character in the meta game, therefor making him the most important to test things against, and then also on an above average weight character. Someone Like Bowser would be suitable for this 2nd part. It would be nice to have it so that the person getting hit can DI the attack for better estimations, but if you can't then that's OK =]
 

D. Disciple

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I've looked over some of my Lucario tournament vids, and notice that I have a trap/bait play style now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEKp-DjRSVo - This match against Kit's Wario is a good example of baiting your opponent into approaching you and punishing. As well has nairing the back of their shield with enough distant so that they can't turn and grab you, or Wario hitting you with a fsmash.

I used dair, aura sphere, sh fair - retreating air dodge a lot in this match and it paid off.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHsZENnAbe0 - Match against Wobby's GaW. Wasn't really trying, but a pretty decent punishing set-up/luck in this match, which got me a sweet gimp on him.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q-Ha9GoCubs - R2 vs Joker's Snake. Shows some constant pressure with aura sphere spams, grabs, tilts, and charging in sometimes with shield dashing to bounce grenades at him when he threw them at me. Even though he caught on at the end and almost won, still a pretty good match. I wanna call this passive aggressive since I did fall back sometimes to avoid being attack and rushing in when I had him in a good situation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Sdb3mn94TuY - R1 vs Joker's Snake - Good pressure, baits and decent tech chasing, especially above Lucario. Perfect shield works wonder, and as I watched it I noticed if spaced out enough you can escape Snake's 2nd hit from Ftilt with some good SDI.
 

Zyro71

Smash Rookie
Joined
Jun 7, 2009
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4
Location
North America
Interesting, ill try these later but for now i need to know a few things that aernt covered here, one would be what controller to use (GCC, CC, Wiimote o.o or numchuck+mote) and how settings like no tap jump, or custom controlls...i have yet to find a perfect setting( only one my friend uses which is ok)
 

tedward2000

Smash Champion
Joined
Mar 9, 2008
Messages
2,395
Location
NAU
Use A gamecube controller. Its the best.
And dont change any of the settings.
Its the best way to play brawl in general. Plus all guides here are done by a GCC.
-t2

*oh and welcome to the board

*edit 2
Tourneys will allow you to change your settings, just dont do it right now
 

Aurasmash14

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 31, 2009
Messages
1,540
welcome to the boards. you came right when we started a revolt.. lol nice timing.


oh yeah RJ the dtilt on Bowser, kills at about 180% if on regular power, so its better to use against heavier chars as a setup.
 

hough123

Smash Ace
Joined
Sep 18, 2007
Messages
627
That is something I actually don't do enough lmfao. I need to. Hmm... Can some one test the kill power of Dtilt for me? Test once on MK, since he is the most problematic character in the meta game, therefor making him the most important to test things against, and then also on an above average weight character. Someone Like Bowser would be suitable for this 2nd part. It would be nice to have it so that the person getting hit can DI the attack for better estimations, but if you can't then that's OK =]
At what damage? Or should I whip up a graph of each 10 percent?
Also, to contribute; is nair a viable kill move? I've used it a couple times, and it seemed to work well.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
Sep 9, 2008
Messages
2,423
At what damage? Or should I whip up a graph of each 10 percent?
Also, to contribute; is nair a viable kill move? I've used it a couple times, and it seemed to work well.
N-air is a good kill move, despite the fact you might be using it throughout the match. The kill depends on the DI of your opponent actually, but it still has kill potential and it kills relatively early depending on the character.
 

The Milk Monster

Smash Champion
Joined
Dec 31, 2007
Messages
2,138
Location
Collinsville, IL.
I don't play Luca, but you guys were talking about Luca's dtilt, and yes, that works AMAZINGLY as a set up on the heavies. A huge amount of moves of Luca's kill, so it's best to use dtilt a lot, for set ups.
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
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Messages
2,423
Guide Updated. New section : How to be the harasser, not the harass-e (Evasion)

Enjoy =]
 

iRJi

Smash Champion
Joined
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Messages
2,423
Well in order to be the harasser you need to be in their face. I think the best way to do that is to send an aura sphere and than follow up on it with either a dair or fair.
I think you missed the joke in the title. The point of being the harasser in this section is to get on your opponents nerves. lol.
 
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