Lost Mafia - Who won? - The viewing audience of course

[Evil Eye]

I'm not relying on flavor analysis.

It's a mechanical fact that I'd cleared you as town because, above your agreeable play, you had been targeted for death. Now we have a townie claiming responsibility for all of the ostensibly vig-y deaths + the attempt on your own life.

With Glyph's claim the bulk of why I'd cleared you dissipates, and with frozen's flip I need to rethink my grasp on the game.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Who benefits from finding out what PR living players are EE? Is it town?

(its mafia)

 

[Evil Eye]

Well, yeah, but mafia already had a stalker. Giving them that as an actual ability (this is assuming for a moment that it isn't all bull**** which it could be) in addition to stalker is literally the worst idea I could ever imagine for balance.

 

[Evil Eye]

So Glyph has claimed responsibility for kills that autojan. Ryker has claimed a role that I guess automatically tells him the roles of people that die and get janned. Why is the town kill so insanely antitown? Noflips do not benefit town, especially when we're not even given the vaguest comfort of knowing that it was the ****ing mafia that killed that person who is now not going to flip. That means they could be ANYTHING. Worthless.

Sure, Ryker's a check to that. And? Why do we need a role to play the check to our ****ing vig? That's two roles to form a functional town vigilante, and that crumbles as easily as the forensic investigator dying.

If you guys are both telling the truth, I hate this setup. ****ing hate it.

If Ryker's like a mafia coroner, I hate this setup.

So much about this **** doesn't make sense.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

There was a stalker, EE. A stalker who can figure out people's roles. Like you. Which would explain why the role block moved.

Glife as the killer isn't even an incredibly difficult guess even if he wasn't stalked. Now all the roles are on the table, so we get no further clarification.

 

[Evil Eye]

I may be good at the game, but RBing and stalking me in one night is ****ing pushing it.

It's a possibility I've considered but that's seriously pushing it. Why not block me and stalk another power player? That'd be infinitely better play.

 

[Deleted member]

Auspher. You're killing me.

What did I do wrong? You told me Joey or Kataefi were both good picks to investigate.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Wait, the stalker hit the smoke monster on N1. Had to have. That was not a balls call on Gorf's part. I refuse to buy that.

They could, however, have stalked you the next night or have taken the guess given what they did know. Assuming jan gets the roles as well, then they knew a protective probably exists (due to Rajam) and they were going ball's deep because Kat was a likely lynch/Vig before the next phase ends unless something radical happened..

There's too many holes given his play.

 

[Evil Eye]

Yeah I'm gonna take at least an hour break to cogitate.

Kat is not the definite lynch. I'm not against the lynch. Things about Kat and his claim bother me. But it's not the definite move.

Argue amongst yourselves. I want Chaco's result, I want Kat's stuff.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

The facts do not line up and AGAIN, if something isn't up with this set-up, I'll eat my foot. I don't think the mafia has a kill.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Going to pick up a pizza. Keep the discussion going.

 

[Evil Eye]

No, Auspher, investigating Joey was fine. But you were supposed to withhold your results until we were done all the claims. Granted it was Ryker that told you to, but I agreed. You should keep cards like that hidden in a situation like a mass claim until people are done claiming, that way when mafia claims they have to complete their lying BEFORE concrete info is revealed.

It wasn't horrible, just... not something I wanted to see, heh.

/IC mode

 

[Evil Eye]

Ryker I can't tell if you're full of **** or legitimately investigating at this point, but Gheb got stalked, and Gorf outed Chaco in the thread when he was about to die. Which of course means either Chaco's mafia and that was an ubergambit or (more likely) Gorf wanted to inform his scumbuddies of N2's stalk while also introducing some nasty WIFOM. Which implies at least one of his scumbuddies is inactive, which only tightened my vehemence about frozenflame honestly. Could've just been laziness + WIFOM bonus on his part though.

 

[Deleted member]

Oh...

Well, sorry.

 

[Evil Eye]

And why are you talking about the jan if you still believe GLife, meaning there isn't a single mafia kill, Ryker?

 

[Evil Eye]

Assuming jan gets the roles as well, then they knew a protective probably exists (due to Rajam)

Really though, that's such a reach (based on untrue information since you claim to believe Glyph) that I'm starting to think this was a scumslip.

 

[Evil Eye]

****, nothing makes sense. Nothing at all. **** this setup oh my god. **** this game in general.

I'm gone for real. Everybody else can talk, because I've been talking way too much for someone with nothing to prove.

One thing I do know is we're not ****ing quicklynching toDay. Period.

 

[Deleted member]

Vote: DtJ Glyphmoney

Might as well start somewhere.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

EE, I REFUSE to believe that GLife's kill would jan and he'd have no knowledge of it. I believe he is telling the truth about his role, which lends me to think that there is a jan on the mafia team. I still think they can't kill. This would fit that.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

A kill-less mafia would be in such a stupidly steep hole if that had the same flips as this town.

 

[Asdioh]

EE, I REFUSE to believe that GLife's kill would jan and he'd have no knowledge of it. I believe he is telling the truth about his role, which lends me to think that there is a jan on the mafia team. I still think they can't kill. This would fit that.

This is the only way this can make sense to me. It seems more likely that Glyph is scum. If he was town and realized that lynches reveal flavor and role, yet his kills make them hidden, why would he continue killing?

 

[Evil Eye]

Why are you so adamant on Glyph as town, Ryker?

Yeah, I have gut-town on him. But I always do, regardless of his alignment. And gut is almost the only thing we have to work with because he's been a non-presence. So I'm not relying on gut. Throw it out.

Occam's Razor this ****. What do we have? From your POV we have a nurse, a VT, a couple of Lovers. Then from the few flips we've gotten, we've had an SK, a mafia stalker, a mafia roleblocker.

Completely normal, typical mafia roles.

You know I'm town. I'm doc. That's another one.

The other, non-wacky claims are VTs and someone claiming vig.

Except it's a vig that either autojans, or there's a mafia role that, simply by being alive, autojans every role. That's ****ing BULL****, and makes the vig the most antitown role in the game. And either way you're trying to push a kill-less mafia? Glyph's claimed role becomes more antitown then ever. Christ, he hasn't even told us if he's compulsive or not.

Occam's Razor. What do we know? Glyph claimed vig. The killing role. THE ONLY killing role in the GAME right now. He claims this AFTER Kat has outed him as a killing role. He claims this BEFORE Chaco claims his result, which could very well be him tracking Glyph to a corpse.

Occam's Razor. The guy that has admitted to doing all of the killing, and killing exclusively townies from your POV, you are rather vehement about believing.

So he's the most antitown ****ing vig ever designed, in ANY GAME.

Or.

Just maybe.

He's the mafia role that is doing the ****ing killing.

 

[Evil Eye]

Christ, look at your own words on D2, Ryker. When Gheb was saying we should use him as a vig. What did you say? You said mafia was going to let him continue to function as our vig so long as they could make sure he's only hitting town. What has Glyph done? Hit townies that people thought were scummy, one of whom he apparently didn't even think was scum but a wasted lynch (Rajam). While also knowing we wouldn't get those flips.

 

[Asdioh]

Dead Players:
D1 - Lynched - Red Ryu - Charlie Pace - VT
D2 - Lynced - Gheb - Man in Black / Smoke Monster - Independent Bulletproof Serial Killer
D3 - Lynched - Gordito - Benjamin Linus - Mafia Stalker
D4 - Lynched - Circus/ J - Michael Dawson - Mafia Roleblocker


???? Players
N1 - Mentos - ????
N1 - KevinM - ????
N2 - Rajam - ????
N3 - No one
N4 - Frozenflame - ????

Boone Carlyle, Town Forensics Inspector.

Flavor says I love my sister and that I wanted to contribute more so I learned how to hunt with John Locke. When people started disappearing, I made it my mission to figure out where they had been taken. I've found nothing but bodies thus far.

Mentos and KevMo were Lovers.
Rajam was a Nurse.
Frozen Flame was a VT.

I get these flips at the start of each new Day Phase. I'll dig up their flavors in a minute.

FF is Scott Jackson.
Rajam is Juliet (no last name given).
Mentos is Jin Kwon.
KevMo is Sun Kwon

Gord only got one Stalk (presumably on Chaco) aside from Gheb before dying, so these results are clearly Ryker's own.
(On a related note, why would Gord need to tell the whole town about Chaco's role if he wanted to tell his scummates? Don't they have a QT to use? It was entirely wifom.)




1. Dooms - VT
2. DtJ Glyphmoney - Mafia Vigilante
6. Auspher - Cop?
10. Acrostic Asdioh - Priest
11. Kataefi - Communications Whatever
12. Evil Eye - Doctor
13. Ryker - Forensic Dude
15. Chaco - Tracker
16. Soupamario Washed Laundry - VT



The most reasonable lynches seem to me to be between Glyph, Kat, and maybe Chaco. I'm not sure about Chaco though, someone else will have to give a read on that.
Confirmed mafia had a roleblocker and stalker, right? If we're assuming Glyph is town, then they also have a Janitor, and either no kills, or the worst luck in the world. I suppose it's possible to balance out No Kills with Janitor+Stalker+Forensic Dude, but I'm inclined to believe that Ryker is town.

If they really don't have kills, I'm guessing 4 man scumteam is most likely.

Glyph are you scum?

 

[Evil Eye]

(On a related note, why would Gord need to tell the whole town about Chaco's role if he wanted to tell his scummates? Don't they have a QT to use? It was entirely wifom.)

Bro I already said it had to be about the WIFOM, but a more important question is how did he know Chaco was tracker if he didn't stalk him? The only way he could know is if Chaco was scum. And remember, cop was already out, so mafia faces a bad situation with two investigatives at the minimum and without some FUD on either of them.

 

[Chaco]

Heyo, I'm back home now. Seems like some heated discussion is going on. I need to read this **** first. However, as it stands right now, my results from last night are useless. I tracked FrozenFlame and he didn't go anywhere.

Reading up.

 

[Asdioh]

I forgot Auspher's results :embarrassed: he got roleblocked on some nights didn't he? All I remember is a guilty on gorf and an inno on Joey.

Also forgot Chaco's results but whatever.

EE, what is your read on Chaco, claims and obvious WIFOM aside?

 

[Evil Eye]

The other thing that's bothering me is that in the show Sayid gets infected with a Sickness that turns you into a murderous lunatic. However he's all good guy up to that point, and all good guy after a somewhat lengthy spell of being a bad guy, so it's not worth basing anything on. Especially when he worked for the Smoke Monster. Too many variables to speculate on it, but Sayid was a bad guy at some point during the show, at any rate. Course, could also be a safeclaim.

Just like Michael Dawson. A good guy at his heart who gets leveraged into doing stuff on behalf of the Others. That's the other thing bugging me. All mafia flips are Others related. Ben Linus. Michael. Indy was Smokey, who was in fact independent of the Others/Losties conflict. Pretty sure mafia just are the Others.

So much in this game doesn't make sense. A kill-less mafia is ****ing preposterous. A kill-less mafia, no less, with a magic janitor that doesn't have to use any kind of skill whatsoever and has to rely on a TOWN ALIGNED ROLE to kill for them -- meaning EVERYBODY THAT DIES IN THE GAME OTHER THAN SK KILLS DIES IN A MANNER MEANT TO BRING ABOUT THE TOWN WIN CONDITION

 

[Evil Eye]

God damn it. Chaco why couldn't you have ANY other result. I really needed that. I needed to trust you.

Gut on Chaco has been town basically the entire time and his response to the Laundry pressure D3 was good. Now, I just don't know. I wasn't entirely sure coming into this Day. Now I'm even less sure.

Chaco when you're done reading, give us your thoughts on this ****ing mess. Then take me back to the past to play the ****ty games that suck *** to each of your tracks and tell me what led you to make each of them. And do it from memory, in explicit detail.

 

[Evil Eye]

That's about all I have to offer right now, I'm already starting to talk too much.

 

[Chaco]

God damn it. Chaco why couldn't you have ANY other result. I really needed that. I needed to trust you.

Gut on Chaco has been town basically the entire time and his response to the Laundry pressure D3 was good. Now, I just don't know. I wasn't entirely sure coming into this Day. Now I'm even less sure.

Chaco when you're done reading, give us your thoughts on this ****ing mess. Then take me back to the past to play the ****ty games that suck *** to each of your tracks and tell me what led you to make each of them. And do it from memory, in explicit detail.

Great job asking a pothead a memory question. Alright, N1, was purely because I cannot read KevinM. And having him confirmed to me as town is something I find extremely useful because I can then kind've work with him and not have to worry about his insane pushes.

N2, I went with Jerkus/J because I was still uneasy about their push. But entirely lost track of that **** when I left out of town for a week. Thats why I was like OH **** yesterDay when I realized what my result was and how it went congruently with him being RB'ed.

N3, was because I'm weary of Kata, and have always been since that damn Hydra he used to play on Chuckie, so when he was being quiet and I kindve had an off feel about him so I shot him the investigation.

and last night, I went with FF just to prove to you that he wasn't anything to worry about. I figured when he called out his ****ty doc gambit he was just trying to attract kills. So I went with him.

As far as who needs to die, it's Kata/Glyph/Ryker.

I want Ryker lynched today, Glyph to shoot Kata, and then if still no flip, Lynch Glyph.

I highly doubt the presence of 4 STRONG investigative roles. Cop and Tracker as is, are strong as all hell. I think Kata's role is entirely bull**** to be honest, and Ryker's truthfully isn't a role that I'd even want to **** with. Too much **** surrounding it.

To be honest, I don't see how I'm not confirmed. The J Lynch pretty much confirmed me.

 

[Asdioh]

Why lynch me, if you can use me as Vig? I'm BP so Mafia can't kill me anyways and you can lynch me whenever you think I'm not shooting whom town wants killed.

Oh right, there's that. You think he was made BP to protect against town's one vig, and that's it?


Anyway EE, I'm reading through Glyph's posts, and if it's any reassurance, I'll stake my priesthood on him being scum.

 

[Asdioh]

Oh right, there's also the fact that FF implied he was doctor, and then Glyph killed him. Brilliant townplay on FF's part, and he doesn't even have to try eh?

 

[Asdioh]

Leaving Gheb alive CAN have protown benefits, and anybody who absolutely refuses to consider that possibility is scummy in my eyes.

Will none of you dare to give a solid read on EE? What's the problem?

EE's a solid town read for me Asdioh.

Do you have something against EE or something? =P

^ haha funny having EE as solid town when you're SCUM

.....but Asdioh is cleared? How does a bus driver influence him being scum?

:O

He's cleared?

He and FF are pushing Gheb to be left alone. If scum has a bus driver, they essentially gain a second night kill from this broadcasted SK kill.

ryker isn't scum with J

gg i win

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Why are you so adamant on Glyph as town, Ryker?

Yeah, I have gut-town on him. But I always do, regardless of his alignment. And gut is almost the only thing we have to work with because he's been a non-presence. So I'm not relying on gut. Throw it out.

Occam's Razor this ****. What do we have? From your POV we have a nurse, a VT, a couple of Lovers. Then from the few flips we've gotten, we've had an SK, a mafia stalker, a mafia roleblocker.

Completely normal, typical mafia roles.

You know I'm town. I'm doc. That's another one.

The other, non-wacky claims are VTs and someone claiming vig.

Except it's a vig that either autojans, or there's a mafia role that, simply by being alive, autojans every role. That's ****ing BULL****, and makes the vig the most antitown role in the game. And either way you're trying to push a kill-less mafia? Glyph's claimed role becomes more antitown then ever. Christ, he hasn't even told us if he's compulsive or not.

Occam's Razor. What do we know? Glyph claimed vig. The killing role. THE ONLY killing role in the GAME right now. He claims this AFTER Kat has outed him as a killing role. He claims this BEFORE Chaco claims his result, which could very well be him tracking Glyph to a corpse.

Occam's Razor. The guy that has admitted to doing all of the killing, and killing exclusively townies from your POV, you are rather vehement about believing.

So he's the most antitown ****ing vig ever designed, in ANY GAME.

Or.

Just maybe.

He's the mafia role that is doing the ****ing killing.

Dude, Occam's Razor says that scum don't ****ing kill FF, Rajam, and their suspect night 1. That's what I'm going on. My main issue is that he targeted me night 3 which could be a deviation from a plan to claim vig, but I still don't buy it. Why revert back and kill FF, the nearly guaranteed lynch of the next day?

I'm not as adamant as you're portraying. I run out of possible baddies on my scum list if lynching Kat and Joey doesn't win the game. I've already said he is next on my list of people to bite the dust sitting with Laundry.

It's not like there haven't been mafias with no NKs before in smaller set-ups (TWEWY springs to mind where Swiss abused the SK to win as scum). I'm not saying the set-up is a good set-up. In fact, I'm saying the opposite from what I've seen thus far. I'm saying this is what the set-up is adding up to.

 

[Chaco]

Oh right, there's also the fact that FF implied he was doctor, and then Glyph killed him. Brilliant townplay on FF's part, and he doesn't even have to try eh?

You can't deny the logic behind it. It's not about him trying or not. It was something that needed to be checked out. I was HOPING that Auspher would investigate Kat. I was in fact banking on it, because I thought, yknow THAT makes the most sense. Oh ****, Chaco has a successful track on him and we're not sure what it does. MAYBE I should check that. BUT NO. He goes and checks Joey. I mean really? That's why I went FF instead of going Kata again too. Because i thought FOR SURE that he would investigate him. But boy was I wrong. So PoE I figured having EE off of Frozen and onto someone more useful in the event Frozen didn't do anything, like I anticipated, we'd have an easier lynch pool to deal with.

 

[Tandora]

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch!

Kataefi: (1) Ryker
Glyph: (1) Auspher

Not voting: (7) Kataefi, Washed Laundry, Asdioh, Dooms, DtJ Glyphmoney, Chaco, Evil Eye

Deadline is January 20th, 11:59 PM EST.

Vote counts may be a little slower since Hida Jiremi is now back in classes.

 

[Asdioh]

So we have a nurse, a doc, and the only killing roles are a SK and a horribly antitown Vig? I don't see it. I think it's more likely that we have no vig at all, and Kata's claim of Glyph being a killing role screwed Glyph over.
Or they could be scummates, but that would be weird.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

This is the only way this can make sense to me. It seems more likely that Glyph is scum. If he was town and realized that lynches reveal flavor and role, yet his kills make them hidden, why would he continue killing?

If you had a gun, wouldn't YOU shoot Rajam and FF?

 

[Chaco]

It doesn't make sense. Town is a ****ing powerhouse and it'd leave a kill-less mafia. That's just not happening. ESPECIALLY since Tanny has a doc and a nurse in this game. That means a two kill CONSTANT was expected. Mafia and SK. Vig shouldn't and wouldn't shoot every night. And if he claims compulsive, we lynch him on the spot. Having the killing role gone, we go nightless as far as kills are concerned and we can **** up with PR investigations.