Lost Mafia - Who won? - The viewing audience of course

[Evil Eye]

before I read all that fluffy flavor I just want to say oh hey what do you know, RR wasn't scum

god damn it

 

[Evil Eye]

I mean mentos might not be scum, but at least his flip would have been informative, for christ's sakes

 

[Dooms]

So many possibilities @_@.

Is there something in the rules that I missed that involves no flips?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Ignore the Mentos flip. Assume he was vigged.

What about the Kevin flip?

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Was he on anyone who's name wasn't Circus?

 

[Dooms]

He was on me for a while.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Hrm.......

I don't think they were separate kills. Look back at the way that KevMo treated the Mentos wagon at the end. I think they were linked. Either indy or town aligned Lover's. This also supports the way that neither of their roles flipped. Honestly, with the way they were both playing to survive rather than scum hunt, I'd say Indy. All in all, it doesn't really matter. What I would say is, for the sake of discussion assume my analysis is correct, who would kill EITHER Mentos or Kevin?

Janning Mentos lands us at square one after a night of actions. Janning KevMo just kills KevMo. The only people that could leave as scum are Circus/J or Joey? No, I don't think it was for Joey's sake. So either Circus/J, or someone who wanted Mentos gone.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

So I claim Ana Lucia, FBI Agent. Essentially, I investigate players to get SK/nonSK results and once the SK is dead I revert to a VT. After thinking about his play, he seemed extremely lackluster as far as effort goes, and although I found town points in things like his sticking to his scum read(s), that really only adds up to something that I can't see mafia doing. Plus, if you wanna do some speculation of "what would an SK do", typically I think of decent sliding by Day play to avoid NKs and gain some decent town points, and slaying all of your legit scum reads at Night so that they can't mess with ya... Now, I don't know if it's just me (hint: DOUBTFUL), but I can't see Gheb's play as anything aside from just keeping it safe. If what I got really isn't enough, I'll bulldoze this thread to make sure a Gheb lynch goes through, there ain't no way no how he's not SK. So, it looks like Gheb is our honorary SK of the game.

Vote: Gheb

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

So did you investigate him or not? You never specified.

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

Well... As context clues (should have) pointed out... Yes I investigated GBizzle and I got dat SK.

 

[Asdioh]

D: gheb nooooo
why you get SK in the large games???

vote: Gheb wanted him to be town with me for once

btw i still haven't read the game and was hoping someone would NK me.

Mentos is doctor, yo. Luckily, scum won't nightkill him because they'll be nightkilling me.

I don't know why Acrostic chose not to mention it, but I have a night ability that lets me target a player and prevent them from killing anybody. Usable every night.
I'm also masoned with Ryker and have mod-confirmed information that J is scum.

I'm not actually masoned with Ryker, but Rajam's reaction led me to believe that he and Ryker probably aren't scummates. It also led me to believe that he's more likely scum than Ryker. /shallowanalysis

The bolded part is totally true and I targeted um... *looks at the playerlist* EE with it, so EE totally didn't kill anybody last Night.

 

[#HBC | Ryker]

Man, Asdioh, don't lie to people. Be my sweetheart.

Vote: Gheb

$10 bucks says I found Mentos' murderer.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Didn't like Ryker's theory on Mentos and Kev being linked until I realized scum and the supposed SK (which is pretty likely in a game this size) could have both hit KevinM. I don't believe Mentos was directly NK'd (at least not by scum), wouldn't make sense when there was a sizable amount of people ready to take him out.

vote: Gheb

 

[Tandora]

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch!

Vote count:
Gheb: (4) Gorf, Asdioh, Ryker, Glyph


Not voting: (10) Joey, frozenflame751, Rajam, Auspher, J, Kataefi, Evil Eye, Gheb_01, Chaco, Soupamario

Deadline January 11th, 11:59 PM EST.

Prods for inactivity:
Glyph - 2
KevinM - 1
Soupamario - 2
Kataefi - 1
Frozenflame - 1
Auspher - 1
Evil Eye - 1

 

[Dooms]

Vote: Gheb

Not sure how I feel about Mentos+KevinM. Completely neutral on it at the moment, since KevinM didn't really post enough to show anything connecting himself to Mentos.

 

[Evil Eye]

Gonna hold out until I reread. Knew something was wrong with ghebmo though so I think I believe gorf.

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Why lynch me, if you can use me as Vig? I'm BP so Mafia can't kill me anyways and you can lynch me whenever you think I'm not shooting whom town wants killed.

 

[Evil Eye]

hah ah hahahaha hahahaahah hahahahahashdahdghashgahsgha

Vote: Gheb

 

[Evil Eye]

literally did you copypaste this from all-stars

hey guys i'm the arsonist np np just make me your weapon I won't backstab you or nothin

 

[Evil Eye]

you jerkbutt I knew I should have pushed you harder on D1.

Nice ML though

 

[Kataefi]

omg ghebbo...

vote: gheb

btw i've been rereading on and off at work. there's not a big enough picture to speculate over mentos/kev yet. I recognise a few possibilities at this point.

curiously gorf what made you decide to target gheb last Night? =?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

EE, you know town could've won Allstars had they decided to use me as a tool, right? You're laughing about my proposal but at the same time you're digging your own grave again.

I've gotten pretty indifferent about this game because of how unfair the set-up is [similar to Allstars]. What the **** am I supposed to do when there's ****ing 16 people against me and one role is added for the sole purpose of ****ing me over with luckhax? I prefer to just side with the town in that case and if you lose because you're too dumb to understand that I'm +1 Vigilante for the town then I'll be the one laughing in the end.

 

[Asdioh]

Why lynch me, if you can use me as Vig? I'm BP so Mafia can't kill me anyways and you can lynch me whenever you think I'm not shooting whom town wants killed.

oh man.

Gheb can kill me!

EE, you know town could've won Allstars had they decided to use me as a tool, right? You're laughing about my proposal but at the same time you're digging your own grave again.

I've gotten pretty indifferent about this game because of how unfair the set-up is [similar to Allstars]. What the **** am I supposed to do when there's ****ing 16 people against me and one role is added for the sole purpose of ****ing me over with luckhax? I prefer to just side with the town in that case and if you lose because you're too dumb to understand that I'm +1 Vigilante for the town then I'll be the one laughing in the end.

You're talking as if EE is town.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

Gheb, who'd you target last night?

 

[#HBC | Gorf]

curiously gorf what made you decide to target gheb last Night? =?

I mean I totes think it's explained that his play seemed to "what would indy do" and was nervewrecking and stuff but ya know if it was wasn't clear that's it.

 

[#HBC | J]

Wow o.o N1 Guilty = yay. Was going to vote but if I did, I'd hammer Gheb.

I did chuckle a bit with EE mentioning All-Stars mafia because that is exactly the game that popped up when he made that plea.

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

I totally feel Gheb's frustration with the setup. Being a solo indy with an investigative role designed just to find you is pretty balls. Def. too hard for him if he is TRULY a solo indy. Let's not pretend it's impossible for SK's to be linked to another indy in larger games (it's happened before, way back in SP Mafia II).

Keeping him around to use as a vig is a somewhat attractive option, and a well directed BP SK certainly poses a greater threat to the scum than the mafia in the short term. Have to get rid of him eventually though.

Also, this does not in any way clear Gord IMO. He could easily be a scum stalker or something of the like and figured out Gheb's role by other, not so townie means.

@ Gheb, were you responsible for either of the disappearances last night? If so, why did you target not flip? If not, who did you target?

 

[Tandora]

With 14 alive, it takes 8 to lynch!

Vote count:
Gheb: (7) Gorf, Asdioh, Ryker, Glyph, Dooms, Evil Eye, Kataefi


Not voting: (7) frozenflame751, Rajam, Auspher, J, Gheb_01, Chaco, Soupamario

Deadline January 11th, 11:59 PM EST.

Prods for inactivity:
Glyph - 2
KevinM - 1
Soupamario - 2
Kataefi - 1
Frozenflame - 1
Auspher - 1
Evil Eye - 1

 

[#HBC | FrozeηFlame]

Quickhammer and you're ****ing scum btw. Or delusional and awful town.

But seriously, don't ****ing hammer Gheb.

 

[#HBC | J]

Someone also needs to unvote Gheb to stop him from self-hammering himself.

 

[Evil Eye]

EE, you know town could've won Allstars had they decided to use me as a tool, right? You're laughing about my proposal but at the same time you're digging your own grave again.

No. You died so early you had nothing to do with anything, and there was no reason to trust you. Whatsoever. Town lost because the game had an exorbitant amount of bad guys that couldn't be predicted and so the NA planning caused the game to endgame sooner than expected.

I prefer to just side with the town in that case and if you lose because you're too dumb to understand that I'm +1 Vigilante for the town then I'll be the one laughing in the end.

I like the part where you give us any reason to trust you, at all, other than because you said so. Oh wait. What's that, Gheb? You DIDN'T, you say? My oh my, how forgetful I can be.

The fact that you think I'm so easy to manipulate that you can just play the AtE card and try to convince me I'm stupid for not taking a ****ing confirmed bad guy's word for it is preposterous.


Anyways, Unvote

I did something for you. Now do something for me. Who did you target last night and why?

 

[Evil Eye]

So, frozen. The bulk of your first real post has been........ sympathy for the devil's AtE with a little dose of unfounded speculation. I wouldn't dislike that if I liked the rest of your post, but I don't really. Gorf isn't cleared, obviously, but you seem more intent on emphasizing the fact that he could be scum rather than analyzing the possibilities. Gorf is certainly more likely to be town -- a lot more -- in lieu of what has happened, and the number of scum possibilities is drastically reduced.

Saying that Gheb's proposal is attractive with little elaboration also ruffles my feathers. Why? You speak as though the confirmed serial killer can for some reason be trusted on their word, just like that, at face value and with no expounding. Do I really need to go into why that doesn't make much sense? If there's more at mind here, by all means, enlighten me.

 

[Asdioh]

Tell me, EE. If we were to let Gheb live, who would be the lynch target(s) toDay? If town were to have the majority agree on Gheb's target toNight, who would it be? Who would your pick for Gheb's target be?

 

[Evil Eye]

**** if I know. I've been V/LA for like a week, one of my scumpicks has been abducted or janned or some ****, the guy I dusted up with on D1 has been outed as a bad guy, and the ML he pushed that I never agreed with has now flipped town -- our only concrete information. Things have kind of changed, and given my reread-heavy playstyle I'm surprised you'd expect me to answer questions like that so soon.

Also, wtf @ this question

If town were to have the majority agree on Gheb's target toNight, who would it be?

I am many things, brother, but I am not a fortune teller. This ain't a question that can be answered.

 

[Evil Eye]

If I were to obtain Gheb as my willing puppet though I'd probably just get him to shoot a null-read inactive. But of course, I can't even comment on THAT much, because we don't even know if successfully attacked someone last night or not. I have zero interest in yet more question marks. 66% of our current flips are ****ing question marks.

 

[DtJ Glyphmoney]

In a game this big I think its a safe bet to say scum has some night action that would mess with Gheb's kill, so even if we were to keep him alive the odds of him doing what we want (even if he tries to) are slim to none now that he's out in the open. Better to remove him from the equation entirely and have one less potential threat out there.

 

[Kataefi]

well I haven't read All Stars yet but reading this discussion I wouldn't keep him (any indy for that matter) around to lynch eventually. I mean eventually something bad could happen There are plenty of possibilities. We know nothing concerning the nitty gritty details of his role/role actions other than he is a claimed BP SK on the surface. Also he's a killer type and D2's opening flavour is unclear. I agree he has no reason to be hammered right now FWIW

 

[~ Gheb ~]

Gheb, who'd you target last night?

To my surprise, my night kill isn't compulsory so I targeted nobody because that'd back up a Vig claim I had in petto for later in the game. If I were forced to take a shoot I would've targeted myself though since my BP status would've protected me from dying and the result would've given me the possibility to claim Vig anyway. With that not being necessary however, I didn't target anybody.

@ Gheb, were you responsible for either of the disappearances last night? If so, why did you target not flip? If not, who did you target?

I can't make people disappear - only kill them. And since I targeted nobody there's no connection between me and the disappearances. Gord correctly outed me as SK, which means I can't make people disappear - that would be either the Abductor's job [which I doubt as we already have a confirmed SK] or the janitor's.
Now the question is wouldn't a Stalker + Janitor + BP SK a pretty damn powerful opposition to the town? Unless town has some pretty OP roles on its side I would lean away from such a stacked opposition, making me believe that Gord is probably not a Stalker but truthful about his claim. I do think there's a mafia janitor in this game though.

No. You died so early you had nothing to do with anything, and there was no reason to trust you. Whatsoever. Town lost because the game had an exorbitant amount of bad guys that couldn't be predicted and so the NA planning caused the game to endgame sooner than expected.

Which all could've been avoided had you actually choosed to use me to cut through all that "NA planning". If anything you've just confirmed that you would've been off far better with my help than without it.

I like the part where you give us any reason to trust you, at all, other than because you said so. Oh wait. What's that, Gheb? You DIDN'T, you say? My oh my, how forgetful I can be.

The fact that you think I'm so easy to manipulate that you can just play the AtE card and try to convince me I'm stupid for not taking a ****ing confirmed bad guy's word for it is preposterous.

What? Where the hell have I been playing the "AtE card"? Like I said, I'm 90% indifferent about this game and all arguments I used in favor of keeping me alive have been rooted in sound logic. Meanwhile, it was you who was being emotional with all your "we have no reason to trust you"-sillyness. That's not something I'd expect from you since you're normally the kind of player to consider the options but you don't seem to do that now.

The pros of keeping me alive for a while are that mafia can't get rid of me so there's already no point for me to "manipulate" anything, I can kill them and they're helpless against it, I can speed up the process of getting reads and flips [which is all the more important such a large game] and you can remove me whenever you realize that my actions aren't for the town's best. It also gives you safety net - a fall-back lynch when you're out of ideas and need a scumflip to increase your chances to win. That time is surely not now. You don't even need yourselves to trust me at the moment - I'm not a lethal threat to you anymore. Even if you thought I'm not worthy of trust there's nothing I could hope to do to change my situation - my charade's been blown up.

In a game this big I think its a safe bet to say scum has some night action that would mess with Gheb's kill, so even if we were to keep him alive the odds of him doing what we want (even if he tries to) are slim to none now that he's out in the open. Better to remove him from the equation entirely and have one less potential threat out there.

That doesn't make a lot of sense. Even if the mafia had the option to interefere with my night kill they'd still waste an NA against a 3rd party player, which is not in their best interest [and assuming that 4 mafiosi is the absolute maximum each of their night actions has to be chosen very carefully to make best use of]. If they choose to roleblock me then they run the risk of having their kill choice docced and they also expose themselves to the cop. It's a really difficult situation for the mafia because the game wasn't designed for them to deal with such an amount of "townie" night actions.

 

[Asdioh]

You wouldn't have killed N1 as the Vig in such a large game with so much inactivity and stuff? :/

Gheb, what's your read on EE?

 

[~ Gheb ~]

You wouldn't have killed N1 as the Vig in such a large game with so much inactivity and stuff? :/

I've made my experiences in the past when I thought it was a good idea to shoot N1 as Vig. It's really not worth the trouble and being able to not shoot N1 is often regarded as confirmation that you're not SK.

Gheb, what's your read on EE?

Unsure atm