List of things to buff Mewtwo

[Browny]

The thing is, the knee sweetspot is not at the tip of the knee; it's closer to Falcon's body. The fact that he connected with the knee sweetspot means that not only does the hurtbox cover a greater area of the tail, but it even goes past the tail, as he's sweetspotting thin air.

From experience I know that the hurtbox also extends behind him when dashing, jumping, ledge rolling, and tech rolling. So Mewtwo may be alright when he's not moving, but that's about it, unfortunately.

You've done that thing again where you say 'know' but in reality, you dont

The first picture whiffed, the second one hit. Mewtwos hurtbox while dashing is literally smaller than standing, half of his foot is intangible and you have to almost hit the base of his tail to actually hit him.

I havent tested jumping, rolling or ledge get ups yet but I have no reason to believe that they are any different to dashing.

 

[meleebrawler]

You've done that thing again where you say 'know' but in reality, you dont

The first picture whiffed, the second one hit. Mewtwos hurtbox while dashing is literally smaller than standing, half of his foot is intangible and you have to almost hit the base of his tail to actually hit him.

I havent tested jumping, rolling or ledge get ups yet but I have no reason to believe that they are any different to dashing.

When testing these kinds of things it also helps to do them on 2D stages like Flat Zone or Duck Hunt.

 

[Browny]

Yes those stages affect it, other characters are negatively affected by it too.

Flat Zone shouldnt matter and duck hunt is a terrible stage

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

If that's the case, then why doesn't anyone complain about the other characters with the same issue?

If they should buff Mewtwo's, then everyone else's should be buffed as well.

Maybe because most other fighters are less reliant on their grabs.

 

[420quickscoper]

Maybe because most other fighters are less reliant on their grabs.

Mewtwo isn't reliant on grabs, so it doesn't really matter, does it?

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Mewtwo isn't reliant on grabs, so it doesn't really matter, does it?

It would help Mewtwo more against its tougher opponents.

 

[Diddy Kong]

Actually being able to get grabs is what would make Mewtwo better against tougher opponents.

@RayNoire 420quickscoper

Mewtwo already is viable. Blue, Mew², and Gibus are all winning tournaments or placing in top 5 with Mewtwo. What a ridiculous thing to say... "maybe Mewtwo will be viable."

Yes, I'd love Bair, Uair, and Utilt to have better hitboxes. Sure, I want a better grab box! A faster jab or Nair would be fantastic. But if none of that ever happens, we already have skilled players winning with Mewtwo. Granted, these are local tournaments, but still.

Am watching vids of these two players now. And now I suddenly realise, 2 stocks is actually a great blessing for Mewtwo as he gets to capitalise out of rage far more than other characters I notice. Very awesome gameplay by both players, and am definitely more hyped to play as Mewtwo because of this.

I think he'll eventually end up being quite similar in viability as say, Greninja.

I also don't think his matchup vs Sheik is all too bad actually.

 

[godogod]

Mewtwo's grabs are more reliant than most characters, considering you have two decent kill throws and one that racks up damage quite nicely.

Too bad he got a range decrease in this game.

 

[FooltheFlames]

- Increase power and hitbox frame duration of Forward Smash
- Give Down Smash a larger hitbox area
- Increase Weight slightly
- Decrease knockback of Down Throw for combo potential on all characters at higher percents
- Let the Down Special Disable be able to do something to opponents who are in the air

 

[420quickscoper]

Mewtwo's grabs are more reliant than most characters, considering you have two decent kill throws and one that racks up damage quite nicely.

Too bad he got a range decrease in this game.

I'm... I'm somewhat okay with his grab decrease range. I do say, yea, needs to be fixed, it's not a logical grab... I just don't care so much.

And as for you... well.

I think you've kind of made it clear that you just don't have the will to improve anymore. Maybe I'm wrong, but according to my calculations...

Yeah, I'm kind of right.

I'm just saying, the only thing you really only post on is here and a few other friends. I recall you saying on the thread "What moves do you favorite and least favorite about Mewtwo to use?" and one of the posts you put in there was:

"This could be a survey to see what Mewtwo needs buffs in."

Bring your buff topics somewhere else.

Honestly, I've even seen you spread some false information about this character, saying that down throw is his most useless move where they are easily a few moves that fall a lot shorter than it.

If you've got any way to show us how you play...
Then maybe I'd be given an idea to see if you're actually qualified to be suggesting these buffs.
I'm sure you're not a really bad Mewtwo, but I don't know if you're a good one.
I don't think I'm that good of a Mewtwo, but, alas, most people say that I'm "very good" or just y'know "good".
Which I don't really know how to respond to since I'm not that great at judging myself.
But I consistently improve.
I remember when I shared replays with another fellow Mewtwo here so I could get some help -
Which, he told me how to improve my combo ability, about phasing, about out of shield options and more.
And, well, it took time, but I eventually took them ALL into my play style.
Even adding my own things along the way.

The replays I sent, well, compared to now, I'm superior to past me.
And I'm still growing. I'm trying to learn how to add short hop neutral aerial to my game and step up my spacing game (which, people already say my spacing is pretty good), so yeah.

Enough about me, let's talk about you again.

How much have you improved over the time? I really don't know if you have or not. You seem to not really discuss, well, the things about improving the metagame.

Don't get me wrong, though, because I'm not a meta game changer - but I'm trying to help out a little bit, and if that's the least I can do, it's the least you can do.

The thing is, in the regard of Mewtwo you spend your time around this thread trying to suggest buffs that you've said again and again and again.

I think you've already said you want up tilt and some other moves to be fixed over half a million times, am I correct?

So why say it again and again and again?

I think people can have their arguments about whether Mewtwo needs buffs or not. Not everyone is agreeing that Mewtwo is a confirmed mid tier character.

What's good is that many well-known Mewtwo mains like LoF Blue, MewSquared and even Abadango (who says that Mewtwo is #24 in the game, which is probably a weird placement cuz of japanese meta) are saying that he's a good character. It's a nice start.

I think you just need to spend a lot more time improving your gameplay instead of discussing buffs, because suggesting buffs gets you absolutely nowhere.

Who knows how much understanding you have of this character? I have a pretty decent knowledge, and I really don't know if you don't... so yeah.

I probably would say more, but I'm done because I'm lazy. Well, not really. Cheers.

 

[FooltheFlames]

whoops, ignore this post, sorry ^^;

 

[godogod]

Compared to his other moves, I think down throw is one of his worst moves because of the long end lag, along with forward tilt. Coming from someone who admits to exclusively playing FG mode and plays FD stages, I'm sure you of all people know that. It's limited to platforms, and a mix up like ftilt, but its still not exactly easy to follow up consistently still. There's better options to set up actually more consistent combos.

I posted on the other thread that post ,to get a feel of what people's least fav moves are, to see if it correlated to moves they'd want to get buffed/have more utility. I was not intending it to be an extension of this thread.

P.S. Chill out with the passive aggressive attitude.

 

[420quickscoper]

Compared to his other moves, I think down throw is one of his worst moves because of the long end lag, along with forward tilt. Coming from someone who admits to exclusively playing FG mode and plays FD stages, I'm sure you of all people know that. It's limited to platforms, and a mix up like ftilt, but its still not exactly easy to follow up consistently still. There's better options to set up actually more consistent combos.

I posted on the other thread that post ,to get a feel of what people's least fav moves are, to see if it correlated to moves they'd want to get buffed/have more utility. I was not intending it to be an extension of this thread.

P.S. Chill out with the passive aggressive attitude.

I'm... I'm still thinking that you used it for your own good.

 

[Aninymouse]

I'm... I'm still thinking that you used it for your own good.

Even if you're 100% correct, why does it matter? Who cares what gogogod's motivations are? He's still a Mewtwo fan, at the end of the day.

And would any of us seriously complain if Mewtwo got buffed again? I seriously doubt it. They have yet to over-buff a character. Even Ike, though he's vastly improved from where he was, would be fine to receive another buff or two. And even if Mewtwo got buffed right to top 10 or top 5 character in the game, is that a bad thing? Hell no!

Most of us have suggested pretty tame, QOL changes. A few people in this thread have asked for the Moon, sure, but even if they got their every desire, Mewtwo would still not be overwhelming, I think; just better.

 

[420quickscoper]

Even if you're 100% correct, why does it matter? Who cares what gogogod's motivations are? He's still a Mewtwo fan, at the end of the day.

And would any of us seriously complain if Mewtwo got buffed again? I seriously doubt it. They have yet to over-buff a character. Even Ike, though he's vastly improved from where he was, would be fine to receive another buff or two. And even if Mewtwo got buffed right to top 10 or top 5 character in the game, is that a bad thing? Hell no!

Most of us have suggested pretty tame, QOL changes. A few people in this thread have asked for the Moon, sure, but even if they got their every desire, Mewtwo would still not be overwhelming, I think; just better.

I wouldn't complain. But I just think he's wasting his time.

 

[Aninymouse]

I wouldn't complain. But I just think he's wasting his time.

Well, you've given him your advice. It's his choice.

 

[420quickscoper]

Well, you've given him your advice. It's his choice.

I've given all I can - I just think that he can be doing something better. That's all... I want.

 

[godogod]

I have no ulterior motives. But I'm starting to wonder about your motives, because you're coming off as a rude creep. You've spent so much time following me around and personally attacking me, and tried to get mods to close this thread twice when people were still contributing. Even after you got shot down by mods, you yourself actually continued to contribute to this thread by suggesting and acknowledging other people's proposed ideas of making mewtwo better, making you a hypocrite. So I'm not exactly sure what your motives are, nor do I care. Don't like my posts, don't waste your time replying back and playing passive aggressive.

 

[420quickscoper]

Dude, not only are you rude, but you're also a real creep and making things really awkward. I have no idea what you're talking about in regards to motives.

But I'm starting to wonder about your motives. You have spent so much time following me around this board and derailing this thread by targeting me with personal attacks, and asking for this thread to be closed at least twice, when people still contribute to this thread. Also you are contribute to the same thread by suggesting and acknowledging other people's proposed ideas of making mewtwo viable, making you a hypocrite. So what are your motives? Because you say one thing and do the complete opposite. Are you just trying to follow me around and stain my reputation or something? Or do you just like me too much?

fine.

look.
i don 't exactly have much common sense.
i tried to help you.
but, of course.
i failed. MISERABLY.
i 'm sorry, okay?

yes. i am a hypocrite.
i don 't really want to personally attack you, i just didn 't like how the thread went.
you know, a lot of this thread is actually me trying to argue with you about these buffs.
sigh.

so, uh.
i guess we can come to an agreement now.
apologies for everything i 've done to you.
i think this thread is welcome to stay alive, now.
i 'm also allowing you to not take my agreement.
it 's completely okay, after everything i 've done.

i don 't contribute much, really.
i just kind of hang out here casually.
eventually you made me want to argue with you, and so i did.
i didn 't stop, because i just wanted you to understand.
but...

now i 'm the one who doesn't understand.
I'm the real enemy here, aren't I?
and i 'm not saying that to make fun of you. i 'm serious.
hopefully we can come to an agreement.
i don 't want to take you down.

so. uh.
if you want to know something, i often try to make my enemies a friend.
i guess, that, if you want to... (well, i 'm sure you really don 't want to after what i 've done)
i mean, not a friend, but just have respect for each other?
if you play 3DS smash, i could add you.
but now that you 've said this to me.
i 've lost all respect for myself.
i don 't think i 'll ever gain it back.

sorry for everything, godogod. really. i am.

 

[LRodC]

Try and keep it civil, guys. We all want different things and are fine with some things how they are. Infighting won't solve anything. Just agree to disagree and move on.

 

[Ze Diglett]

IMO, the only things Mewtwo really needs fixed at this point are his weight, various properties of Teleport, and his grab. Maybe some further readjustment of his hitboxes on his tail attacks would be a nice bonus, but those are all generally good moves as-is, so I don't think that's really necessary.

 

[Mr. B]

The irony of wasting time by repeatedly telling someone that they are wasting time. I LOVE IT.

However, we are starting to get closer to the point where no more buffs will be possible, and we are unlikely to see substantially game-changing alterations (like more grab distance or bigger hitboxes) and I am sucking up the fact that his weight is never going to increase. Maybe we will see a tiny bit less endlag on certain moves (please let it be FTilt).

... Mewtwo really needs fixed at this point are ... various properties of Teleport...

Which properties of teleport would you like to change? (I kinda like it as it is...)

 

[Ryusuta]

Which properties of teleport would you like to change? (I kinda like it as it is...)

I don't know about him, but personally, I think the massive end lag they added was a bit much.

 

[Mr. B]

I don't know about him, but personally, I think the massive end lag they added was a bit much.

Yeah, fair enough. It would be awesome if end-lag could be cut back a few frames (particularly if it ends on the ground) but since it can be ledge cancelled I don't feel like its really necessary for tactical use. A shorter start-up time would make me happiest, I think.

 

[Ze Diglett]

Which properties of teleport would you like to change? (I kinda like it as it is...)

Mostly the annoying bouncing-off-the-stage thing. I'd also like to see less endlag on it and some invlunerability frames on startup or less startup frames. I've gotten screwed by that part in particular too many times...

 

[Deleted member]

Mostly the annoying bouncing-off-the-stage thing. I'd also like to see less endlag on it and some invlunerability frames on startup or less startup frames. I've gotten screwed by that part in particular too many times...

Being hit out of Teleport is always a pain, I'd like to see more invulnerability frames as well.

Imagine if he got Melee Teleport back.

 

[Mr. B]

Mostly the annoying bouncing-off-the-stage thing. I'd also like to see less endlag on it and some invlunerability frames on startup or less startup frames. I've gotten screwed by that part in particular too many times...

I imagine that its quite a hard move to balance... lots of endlag makes the move more practical defensively than offensively. Considering that, cutting a frame or two of startup probably have the most utility without making it too awesome.. the stage bounce is a bit annoying, but just like any other terrain hazard, every character probably has certain terrain situations where there is a need to just be aware and be extra cautious.

 

[meleebrawler]

Being hit out of Teleport is always a pain, I'd like to see more invulnerability frames as well.

Imagine if he got Melee Teleport back.

The move would fail hilariously with even the smallest bit of input lag.

 

[LRodC]

How large is the vulnerability period for the reappearance of teleport, two frames like Zelda's?

 

[FooltheFlames]

I was thinking it would be cool if disable could act like this agaisnt aerial opponents: it either negates air dodges or it puts the other character into a tumbling animation they must shake out of.

Thoughts?

 

[meleebrawler]

I was thinking it would be cool if disable could act like this agaisnt aerial opponents: it either negates air dodges or it puts the other character into a tumbling animation they must shake out of.

Thoughts?

Air Confusion already does that aerial tumble thing.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Air Confusion already does that aerial tumble thing.

but you can jump right out of it after being flipped, and that's different from a real aerial tumble- not to say it's not helpful, it's a great tool. I'm just looking for a way to buff disable, and since the hitbox is much smaller than confusion, you should get a better reward for landing it right?

 

[meleebrawler]

but you can jump right out of it after being flipped, and that's different from a real aerial tumble- not to say it's not helpful, it's a great tool. I'm just looking for a way to buff disable, and since the hitbox is much smaller than confusion, you should get a better reward for landing it right?

It's not really smaller, just doesn't last as long.

The tumble you're describing sounds like the type in shield breaks (also the leading cause of death with Luigi's Negative Zone). Methinks the devs are too scared of it's gimping potential if it could do that (and frankly Mewtwo's good enough at gimping as it is).

 

[LRodC]

I'd enjoy some sort of useful application for an aerial disable. It's not necessary but it would be nice.

 

[FooltheFlames]

It's not really smaller, just doesn't last as long.

The tumble you're describing sounds like the type in shield breaks (also the leading cause of death with Luigi's Negative Zone). Methinks the devs are too scared of it's gimping potential if it could do that (and frankly Mewtwo's good enough at gimping as it is).

Well how about making it work like Puff's rest while in the air? Give it a small frame window, very high knock back if it lands, but massive lag if you miss.
If you had decide for something for disable to be able do in the air, what would it be?

I'd enjoy some sort of useful application for an aerial disable. It's not
necessary but it would be nice.

It's always nice to have more tools at your disposal, so it sucks to have one less option becuz one of your specials disappears while in the air...it can be changed to a whole nother move entirely, I just want it to do something, anything.

another projectile would be nice, or some type of falcon/warlock kick move maybe? (to give another movement option)

 

[LRodC]

It's always nice to have more tools at your disposal, so it sucks to have one less option becuz one of your specials disappears while in the air...it can be changed to a whole nother move entirely, I just want it to do something, anything.

another projectile would be nice, or some type of falcon/warlock kick move maybe? (to give another movement option)

Well, it is useful on the ground, if not situational and read based. Not sure if I'd like it being replaced since I enjoy Disable as a move. I find a lot of enjoyment when I land it on an unsuspecting opponent.

 

[FooltheFlames]

Well, it is useful on the ground, if not situational and read based. Not sure if I'd like it being replaced since I enjoy Disable as a move. I find a lot of enjoyment when I land it on an unsuspecting opponent.

I like it too! But my idea is, it still works the same way it does now while on the ground, but it changes properties or into a different move while in the air only~

 

[Nobie]

edit: whoops wrong thread!

 

[Mr. B]

Not sure if I wrote this upstream or in another thread, but I would like to see Disable have transcendent priority, so that is guaranteed to pass through all other hitboxes. This could offer possibilities to interrupt aerial exchanges (particularly against disjoints) in the air which would have some utility without changing the move too much, or subverting its existing damage/knockback.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

Being hit out of Teleport is always a pain, I'd like to see more invulnerability frames as well.

Imagine if he got Melee Teleport back.

To add to this, the helpless state actually hinders Mewtwo's air mobility. If you look at Wario, his air mobility isn't affected at all whenever he's in a helpless state.