List of things to buff Mewtwo

[godogod]

There's a decent chance, but I'm not expecting anything too much. Someone already confirmed that Marth's f air tipper got buffed from 10 to 13%.one of the corrin+Bayonetta videos from Nintendo UK(the FFA match in Bayonetta's stage) Don't want to get let down too much. I think the chances of another patch after this is probably, like fixing glitches and possible unbalanced moves for bayonetta and corrin.

In regards to WTF, I think it was just her hitbox for grab going down to reach shorter characters.

 

[Ze Diglett]

In regards to WTF, I think it was just her hitbox for grab going down to reach shorter characters.

Well, it's not like our grab doesn't whiff on shorter characters sometimes...

 

[Mr. B]

I will mostly sit next to a window today, looking wistfully out and hoping for non-whiffing grabs and faster FTilts.

Recently I dreamt a really vivid dream that I turned my WiiU on and Mewtwo suddenly had custom moves! It was awesome. Best dream for a long time. Swift was mapped to FSpecial, Recover to DSpecial. Teleport had a hitbox. I played online for hours... and then woke up and had to force myself to accept the fact that it was all just a beautiful horrible dream.

 

[SvartWolf]

- All Grab hitboxes increased by approximately 0.5 units:
Pretty self explanatory. In many instances Mewtwo's grab is susceptible to whiffing the opponent when it shouldn't. Simple really. A similar change was made to WFT too a little while back for what it's worth.

- Teleport adjusted overall to closer match Melee Teleport:
This is quite an interesting one. The main reason for this change is primarily to omit its funky momentum based issues but making the move match Melee Teleport brings about a few other things. The move was overall a little quicker in Melee (e.g. intangibility triggered frame 7 instead of 9) and aerial Teleport had significantly less landing lag allowing Mewtwo to ambiguously close the gap and create strong mindgames, adding a new layer to his offensive play and further assisting his ability to land.

---

While it would be amazing to have all of them this 2 are the ones i want the most. maybe the grab thing is supposed to be a weakness or a small character "strenght"? dunno.

But i really hope his teleport got better, in melee i loved the move.

 

[Aninymouse]

1.1.4 looks uneventful for us. Can't complain!

Help me compare Utilt to 1.1.3 because that was all I felt could possibly be different.

 

[Mr. B]

1.1.4 looks uneventful for us. Can't complain!

No buffs, no nerfs. Truly, today is a day where no complaints are possible; although my occasional secondary, Lucina, has given me cause to cheer!

 

[godogod]

No buffs, no nerfs. Truly, today is a day where no complaints are possible; although my occasional secondary, Lucina, has given me cause to cheer!

No complaints are impossible? **** I was looking forward to this as much as Bayonetta and Corrin tbqh. The balance patch has been really lackluster. Only a little over half a dozen characters got patches, and almost half were FE characters. Mewtwo still needs a couple things fixed.

I'm optimistic though cause I think we'll have at least one more patch, maybe two months from now. The obvious reason is to fix bugs and broken moves for Corrin and Bayonetta..Sakurai is probably taking some consideration in nerfing metanight and ZSS from the nico tournament as well..

Furthemore, Its been fairly common for most characters to not get buffs two patches in a row.. Interestingly enough in this patch, several characters got their weight changed.

Weight changes from patch 1.1.4:

Ganondorf: 112-->113
Kirby: 77-->79
Rosalina: 78-->77
Shiek:-->84
Sonic: 95-->94
ZSS:81-->80

-1 value isn't significant at all. Maybe nerfing ZSS/Shiek/Rosalina in weight is a precursor to weight changes for some characters next patch. I sure hope so. It could be a placeholder for more nerfs for those three in 1.1.5 perhaps.The hell at Ganondorf and Kirby getting a buff. >_>We have to keep insisting for Mewtwo to get a weight buff to be heard, at least close to Rosalina, though getting his Melee back would be ideal IMO.

 

[Chiroz]

I'd be ok with Mewtwo going up to Rosa weight and Disable being a threat to shields through any means (Shield Damage, Shield Stun, Shield Pushback)

 

[420quickscoper]

I'd be ok with Mewtwo going up to Rosa weight and Disable being a threat to shields through any means (Shield Damage, Shield Stun, Shield Pushback)

Even though I don't care for it going up or not, it would make a lot more sense. His current weight doesn't make sense at all, and even though I don't care because I always live past 100%, yeah... do it if you can.

It would be nice if it was a threat to shields.

 

[Mario & Sonic Guy]

It's too bad that Mewtwo didn't get the weight buff that Kirby and Ganondorf were fortunate to receive.

 

[Chiroz]

It's annoying, but it gives me hope that weight is now considered for buffs.

 

[Mr. B]

I have mixed feelings. It would be nice if thee might be buffs for Mewtwo, but I don't particularly mind if he isn't bumped up to higher tiers.

There is always the concern that they might choose to buff something at the expense of something else for "balance", and I don't want him to get any worse (in any way, even if that means no buffs either).

I'll still main him whatever happens.

 

[Bobert]

As a person who's been wanting Mewtwo weight buffs, I find it legitimately hilarious that Ganondorf got a weight buff and Mewtwo didn't. That weight buff isn't even going to help Ganondorf much, if at all. What he needed was a faster jab at least. Hopefully, they both have more luck in the next patch. I don't think this is the last one.

 

[KieRanaRan]

It's encouraging at least to see weight buffs happening. It's not impossible.

I too doubt that was the last patch, they'll inevitably need to make a tweak or 2 given Bayo and Corrin's inclusion (namely Corrin's counter holy smoke that move is absurd)

 

[Chiroz]

It's encouraging at least to see weight buffs happening. It's not impossible.

I too doubt that was the last patch, they'll inevitably need to make a tweak or 2 given Bayo and Corrin's inclusion (namely Corrin's counter holy smoke that move is absurd)

Witch Time is much more absurd, plus much more safe for some reason. But I agree it's absurd.

 

[LRodC]

Rosalina weight or even Mr. G&W weight would definitely be an improvement. It wouldn't be much as people expect, but it would be something more reasonable. I wouldn't cry about it if it never happened because the weight does not bother me, but hey. If it's on the table, it's on the table. 72 to 85 I think is way too big of a jump though. I don't see any weight changes more than 5 units happening. Otherwise it's too huge of a change.

 

[Mr. B]

As a person who's been wanting Mewtwo weight buffs, I find it legitimately hilarious that Ganondorf got a weight buff and Mewtwo didn't. That weight buff isn't even going to help Ganondorf much, if at all. What he needed was a faster jab at least. Hopefully, they both have more luck in the next patch. I don't think this is the last one.

To be fair though, Ganondorf's whole build is centred around soaking up beats, so more weight kinda makes sense. A fast jab would give him some good utility, but its not really what he is all about.

 

[Bobert]

To be fair though, Ganondorf's whole build is centred around soaking up beats, so more weight kinda makes sense.

My point is that he didn't need it and that's why it's funny. Also, it was only by 1 point so he'll soak up like..1-2% more damage before dying...meanwhile Mewtwo is still combo food and dies at 70%.

A fast jab would give him some good utility, but its not really what he is all about.

Jab is his second fastest(Standing grab being 7) grounded option and it's frame 8, which is awful for a jab. I'm not asking for it to be frame 3 or anything like in Melee. Probably something like frame 5-6. He would still be the same slow bait/punish tank character that he is. But to be honest, he needs much more than a faster jab. He's a terribly balanced character in this game but not as bad as Brawl..which isn't much of a feat though.

 

[godogod]

Rosalina weight or even Mr. G&W weight would definitely be an improvement. It wouldn't be much as people expect, but it would be something more reasonable. I wouldn't cry about it if it never happened because the weight does not bother me, but hey. If it's on the table, it's on the table. 72 to 85 I think is way too big of a jump though. I don't see any weight changes more than 5 units happening. Otherwise it's too huge of a change.

He got an 11% increase in dash speed in 1.1 3, which was the most significant character attribute change so far. If the same was applied to his weight, he would jump from 72 to 80. So a similar jump is possible, though I can't say its likely..

 

[LRodC]

He got an 11% increase in dash speed in 1.1 3, which was the most significant character attribute change so far. If the same was applied to his weight, he would jump from 72 to 80. So a similar jump is possible, though I can't say its likely..

Yeah, but that huge dash increase is the reason why I think a jump like that would be unlikely. If he was still the same dash speed as pre-patch, I think it would be more of a plausible thing.

 

[420quickscoper]

Didn't Sakurai say that this was the last patch or something? I dunno.

 

[LRodC]

Didn't Sakurai say that this was the last patch or something? I dunno.

No, he simply said it was the last content the game would receive, and this means most of the team will likely be disbanded. To my knowledge, he never directly mentioned that this was the last patch, just that this was the last content to be released. People are just making assumptions based on the fact that there isn't a good reason anymore to release a balance patch out of the blue.

Anyway, I was thinking of a couple of cool buffs Mewtwo could receive both in Smash 4 or the next game, and it would be awesome if his forward throw had the last shadow ball have way higher knockback growth so that it could kill. It wouldn't be an entirely necessary change since two of his other throws kill, but it would be a cool buff regardless.

 

[420quickscoper]

No, he simply said it was the last content the game would receive, and this means most of the team will likely be disbanded. To my knowledge, he never directly mentioned that this was the last patch, just that this was the last content to be released. People are just making assumptions based on the fact that there isn't a good reason anymore to release a balance patch out of the blue.

Anyway, I was thinking of a couple of cool buffs Mewtwo could receive both in Smash 4 or the next game, and it would be awesome if his forward throw had the last shadow ball have way higher knockback growth so that it could kill. It wouldn't be an entirely necessary change since two of his other throws kill, but it would be a cool buff regardless.

That would be fairly interesting.

 

[godogod]

A few people here occasionally brought up Mewtwo's air acceleration and how its one of the worst(5th worst) and makes it harder for him to get back on the stage, and having a higher one would do wonders. Just how much would Mewtwo benefit from a higher acceleration? What are things he can pull off that he couldn't pull before and how much would it be enough to matter?

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/AirAcceleration

 

[LRodC]

A few people here occasionally brought up Mewtwo's air acceleration and how its one of the worst(5th worst) and makes it harder for him to get back on the stage, and having a higher one would do wonders. Just how much would Mewtwo benefit from a higher acceleration? What are things he can pull off that he couldn't pull before and how much would it be enough to matter?

http://kuroganehammer.com/Smash4/AirAcceleration

I think it would definitely be beneficial for his aerials, as Mewtwo would be able to weave in and out and have more safety. As for his recovery though, I already think it's incredible as is. It would help, but it's not like it needs much.

 

[godogod]

Yeah at least in regards to getting back on the stage he has his air dodge and teleport which helps a bit. Though coming vertically, teleport is tricky and you have a shorter time window to use it and safely get back a distance away from the enemy due to the starting lag.

Speaking of aerials, the only thing I would change about his aerials in terms of buffs, is making back and up air fast. That would work great with a faster accel air speed, in conjunction with his already great air speed.

 

[420quickscoper]

I think his up and back air are fine the way they are - especially back air.
If back air was a lot faster that'd be... eh.
I dunno.

Since the hitbox is so huge it really excels at what it's suppose to do - edge guard.

 

[LRodC]

Up air being fast would be a little unnecessary now since it was buffed a lot in power recently. But then again, Corrin also has a fast up air that's powerful, so it's tough to say whether or not it would be overtuned then.

Back air being quicker would help with holding off pressure from behind, which is currently one of Mewtwo's blind spots. It's fine currently as a fan type attack to catch people recovering, but it's not great on stage.

 

[Ghidorah14]

Am I the only one who thinks upthrow and backthrow should kill slightly earlier? Like, say, make backthrow as good as toon links. As far as "kill throws" go, they arent especially amazing.

 

[Furret24]

Am I the only one who thinks upthrow and backthrow should kill slightly earlier? Like, say, make backthrow as good as toon links. As far as "kill throws" go, they arent especially amazing.

Isn't Up Throw already the fastest killing Up Throw in the game?

 

[420quickscoper]

Isn't Up Throw already the fastest killing Up Throw in the game?

Yeah. I don't think it really needs a buff in my opinion - while it doesn't kill that great on midweights and heavies, it kills pretty easily on lightweights, and, plus, it's a grab.

 

[LRodC]

Am I the only one who thinks upthrow and backthrow should kill slightly earlier? Like, say, make backthrow as good as toon links. As far as "kill throws" go, they arent especially amazing.

Up throw is good enough as is. It's already the second strongest in KB and strongest overall with DI (but hey, the more buffs the better). Back throw should definitely get a small boost though, I agree. It's not shabby now being the 4th strongest back throw, but it could afford to be more powerful.

 

[420quickscoper]

Up throw is good enough as is. It's already the second strongest in KB and strongest overall with DI (but hey, the more buffs the better). Back throw should definitely get a small boost though, I agree. It's not shabby now being the 4th strongest back throw, but it could afford to be more powerful.

In my opinion? Back throw should kill at around 105% at the ledge. Just look at that dang animation. That's some serious sass, and I think it deserves to be really powerful.

Weaker than Ness's, but stronger than Toon Link's.

 

[LRodC]

In my opinion? Back throw should kill at around 105% at the ledge. Just look at that dang animation. That's some serious sass, and I think it deserves to be really powerful.

Weaker than Ness's, but stronger than Toon Link's.

Toon Link's is powerful for absolutely no reason. Same with Villager's. I think that was just a balance decision by the development team since Link has a combo throw and longer grab and Toon Link doesn't. Villager lacked any sort of grab reward as well, so that explains that.

Now as for the balance decision of Zelda's throws not being powerful at all? That I can't answer.

 

[Ghidorah14]

I brought up the throws because, while mewtwo has a ton of strong moves, he doesnt really have one that really makes people fear him.

ZSS has upB
Mario has upsmash
Marth has tipper fsmash
Ness has backthrow
Ryu has true shoryuken
Etc.

I think it'd be fair since mewtwo doesnt have a true combo throw.

 

[LRodC]

I brought up the throws because, while mewtwo has a ton of strong moves, he doesnt really have one that really makes people fear him.

ZSS has upB
Mario has upsmash
Marth has tipper fsmash
Ness has backthrow
Ryu has true shoryuken
Etc.

I think it'd be fair since mewtwo doesnt have a true combo throw.

People do fear up throw. I have had multiple matches where an opponent at kill percents was trying to escape my grab. If they don't, then they're asking for trouble. People should also fear (or at least respect the existence of) Disable since it can potentially turn the tides of a match so quickly.

There's no difference between Ness' back throw and any other kill throw except for the kill percentages. They can all kill you at reasonable percents, so they should all be respected.

 

[godogod]

@LRodC:Back air certainly s awful to use while short hopping on stage. It doesn't even get the short characters. Not sure how it could be fixed.Perhaps having a hitbox extension below the tail?. Reminds me of up tilts blindspot from behind too. I think it was usable on stage, I wouldn't mind that over a faster animation of back air overall.

I can live with back and up air not getting faster animations due to the hitbox size, though I would prioritize up and forward tilt to have it over them because they need it more due to significantly less range over the aerials. But I brought that up a long time ago. As quickscoper mentioned way back when, f tilt having more knockback for spacing and even being an actual kill move at high percents, would be pretty interesting and worthy of using over down tilt.

@Ghidorah14: I would welcome it. It's not an absolute necessity, but it would help him be a proper cannon. if both throws killed at least 10% sooner, I think I would actually okay with it over getting something like a 10% increase in weight. Yeah having to wait 130-40 for midweights with no rage is a pain and I'm already starting to think of other options to kill them if grabbing is out of the question.

 

[meleebrawler]

People do fear up throw. I have had multiple matches where an opponent at kill percents was trying to escape my grab. If they don't, then they're asking for trouble. People should also fear (or at least respect the existence of) Disable since it can potentially turn the tides of a match so quickly.

There's no difference between Ness' back throw and any other kill throw except for the kill percentages. They can all kill you at reasonable percents, so they should all be respected.

Aren't we all forgetting Shadow Ball?

 

[420quickscoper]

Aren't we all forgetting Shadow Ball?

*aren't we all forgetting forward air?

Shadow Ball has to charge and it can be situational,
but forward air?
There is no risk in throwing it out and it kills so it's a nice alternative.

 

[LRodC]

I have to say that it does make sense by a physics standpoint that back air, up air, and up tilt behave how they do. It takes a while for Mewtwo to put force behind his up air and back air, hence why they get stronger around the middle and end compared to the beginning (where there's no hitbox). On the opposite spectrum, up tilt does not require this type of force since it's just a floaty backflip. Mewtwo weakly flips forward with his tail and spends the end frames of the move trying to readjust himself. There's no force at the end of the move because the flip was already weak as is and he isn't trying to attack with it anymore. The tail is just there.

I'm not trying to say that I'm okay or not okay with how they are, I'm just trying to figure out the developer's thoughts here.