List of Best Players at Respective Characters

[Karaoke Man]

To be honest, I think it's silly to base someone's skill only off tournament results. Because it's trying to base a different set of skills, from different skills, for different players, with different capabilities.

With that being said, you may be able to to make an objective judgement of one's skill only from tournament results, but to have a complete judgement on it, you have to be somewhat subjective as well. In terms of measuring a player's abilities, it is impossible judging from only tournment results because whether or not people can actually attend the tourneys are THE primary factors of that judgement. I hope people aren't trying to say "So-and-so didn't attend this tournament, so the other guy must be sooo much better than me".

It's silly because it's not even comparing the players skill between each other; it's literally only comparing the quantity of the wins they have. Quality is taken into account, but to a much lesser extent. It's like comparing myself or any of the Yoshi's to Poltergust. Poltergust does have a bucket load of notable wins under his belt, but that doesn't mean that we can't beat him.

Yes, how close games are should be taken into account in my opinion, because that's directly seeing a visual comparision between the two types of skill. Tyrant for example does exceptionally well in his region and in general, but people don't know that I (MX) took him to game 3 at Apex 2012. vs pools . So like....because I'm not as known or that because of my area, I'm not able to attend as many tournies, that apparently means I'm automatcally a worse player than those that are able to.... LOL. llod (Peach player from MD/VA, I believe) beat Seagull in his first offline tourney in 2011 or 2012 and Joe practically never loses to "randoms".

Kind of dubious that we're ranking players in a dead game, but whatever, I'll play along:
Beyond (who I guess goes to Raptor by default), you really shouldn't bother listing players. The true low-tier heroes all either suck or don't play anymore (and in the face of overcentralization, who can blame to good ones for switching or leaving?).

It's like I said above, this is only based off of tournament wins and....and a comparison between people who stick with someone like and comparing then to someone who switched to which ultimately is an unfair comparison. Not because they "suck" as players, but because they're mostly not even at the tournaments in the first place.

The game might not be as kickin' as it used to be, but if things like this aren't done, then yes; this game would probably be "dead". I'm just sayin'.

 

[pidgezero_one]

Well the set is from early 2014 so he might be right (I don't remember when Leon was in Canada). Sadly, that's probably the last relevant thing Fox has done, so Sodrek wins Fox despite beating a player who might now be "inactive."

January to june 2014

 

[Djent]

Quik still plays Brawl. He only missed the last big tournament in germany because he was sick. However, he's in attendance of a tourney that's happening right now.

Aaaand he's in Winners' Finals after beating Mr. R.

Inactive my ass.

(p.s. Sodrek lost the ditto to Wusi )

 

[Karaoke Man]

no u lost to "hazmatt" rip raptor 2012-2014

blue ninja koopa seems like a noob so I forgive him for not knowing..but the mods usually lock these threads ;]

blue ninja koopa just stop posting

otori never lost to nairo in tournament
smh bloody casuals these days...

please lock this thread
there is no amount of cringing that will allow me to accept your existence on this planet

cmon people have some sense here

While I respect both of ya'll, it's these kind of ignorant, entitlement-driven, and closed minded responses that drives people away. Your skill level or much less your social status does not invalidate people's right to express their opinion just like we all already have. Those personal attacks were supremely toxic and it's that kind of elitism that needs to cease. BNK has actually been around for a looong time as well.

There's no need to lock the thread if we can make something good out of it. We can start by not flaming others for trivial things.

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

We can start by not flaming others for trivial things.

b-b-but it's the INTERNET D:

 

[Karaoke Man]

b-b-but it's the INTERNET D:

The Internet does not excuse bullying.

It never will, either.

 

[Deleted member]

To be honest, I think it's silly to base someone's skill only off tournament results. Because it's trying to base a different set of skills, from different skills, for different players, with different capabilities.

With that being said, you may be able to to make an objective judgement of one's skill only from tournament results, but to have a complete judgement on it, you have to be somewhat subjective as well. In terms of measuring a player's abilities, it is impossible judging from only tournment results because whether or not people can actually attend the tourneys are THE primary factors of that judgement. I hope people aren't trying to say "So-and-so didn't attend this tournament, so the other guy must be sooo much better than me".

It's silly because it's not even comparing the players skill between each other; it's literally only comparing the quantity of the wins they have. Quality is taken into account, but to a much lesser extent. It's like comparing myself or any of the Yoshi's to Poltergust. Poltergust does have a bucket load of notable wins under his belt, but that doesn't mean that we can't beat him.

Yes, how close games are should be taken into account in my opinion, because that's directly seeing a visual comparision between the two types of skill. Tyrant for example does exceptionally well in his region and in general, but people don't know that I (MX) took him to game 3 at Apex 2012. vs pools . So like....because I'm not as known or that because of my area, I'm not able to attend as many tournies, that apparently means I'm automatcally a worse player than those that are able to.... LOL. llod (Peach player from MD/VA, I believe) beat Seagull in his first offline tourney in 2011 or 2012 and Joe practically never loses to "randoms".



It's like I said above, this is only based off of tournament wins and....and a comparison between people who stick with someone like and comparing then to someone who switched to which ultimately is an unfair comparison. Not because they "suck" as players, but because they're mostly not even at the tournaments in the first place.

The game might not be as kickin' as it used to be, but if things like this aren't done, then yes; this game would probably be "dead". I'm just sayin'.

Again, if ALMOST winning counts, then this list is very wrong. The fact is, results are the only way to prove anything. If you didn't win, you didn't win. That's that. Is tyrant the best marth for ALMOST beating ZeRo? NO. Does Hall taking a game off FOW make him at the level of Ally/MVD/Razer/Havok? No. Because they simply did not pull through and take the win. Simple as that. I don't know why it's such a debate, but set win's are wins no matter the set count, losses are losses.

 

[NH Cody]

yes karaoke continue to type long paragraphs of theorycraft bs


maybe if u spent half as much time practicing and fixing ur habits as u did typing and unnecessarily underlining random words u would be pro and would not have to worry about accusations of being a bloody casual

 

[~ Gheb ~]

(p.s. Sodrek lost the ditto to Wusi )

He actually lost it twice - once in regular singles and once in MT singles.

Dittos too stronk.

 

[Sinister Slush]

As much as I know MX being known for extreme theorycrafting.
It's not really silly to base someones skill off tournament results, because it shows they actually have wins under their belt and are consistent? lol

I mean... come the **** on, what else do you want to base a players skill in Brawl? Their attitude? Or how they're kind enough to drive people and not ask for gas money? A-tier.
This guy is definitely a top player cause he pays for my food.

With the Seagull comment, that prolly wasn't even a term back in 2011/2012 (Loses to nobody) cause while he was top 5 in terms of Wolfs back when that old horrible thread was a thing, Kain and Mcpeepants was still a much better wolf back then. Now (like most characters) only have 1 or possibly even no main players for any characters under C tier while anything above that has 4+ people for that character.
Brawl is dead/dying I'll say again lol. Stop this thread and the competitive discussion and just let the tierlist (among the rest of brawl sub-forums) die and have the same old 5 or so people spamming the tierlist thread or new gens and such making new random threads like "how 2 play against X character" or "how save brawl?"

Edit: The people from back then did their work, thx for making an imprint on the character etc. etc.
Polt had great wins under his belt when the better players were in their golden times (for any that still play now) or when they didn't quit. But like all people, they grow up and quit the game cause they get bored of it or know it's bad and want to move on.

So to fill that void Delta and Raptor to an extent took over on getting decent wins under their belts, sometimes not as big or hype as Polt's (DSF vs polt for example). But still wins against the current "good players" that try to match up to the older players that obviously did better than them back in the day.
For example Brood single handedly made Olimar jump up 4 or so spots back in 2010. Or Espy/X making Sonic go up 8 places in 2010. But who're the best for those characters now? Denti/Meek over old players like the ones mentioned Dabuz Nietono Rich etc.
Skill levels change, New blood that triumph over old players (Salem for 2013) n all that.

 

[Djent]

Tourney results are an imperfect heuristic for judging results, but if you're going to rely on any one thing, they're probably the best thing to go on. Fortunately, we don't have to rely on them exclusively; we can consider other factors as well. For example, Ally (early 2009) and Professor Pro (this year) were obviously very good despite not traveling at the time; it was the sheer dominance they displayed within their regions that convinced (some of) us they were good.

 

[Karaoke Man]

yes karaoke continue to type long paragraphs of theorycraft bs


maybe if u spent half as much time practicing and fixing ur habits as u did typing and unnecessarily underlining random words u would be pro and would not have to worry about accusations of being a bloody casual

*sigh* I don't understand why people keep trying to take unneeded shots at me. lol

Believe me, I can and I will keep typing whatever it is that I feel like typing. However, keep in mind that I don't have all day, everyday to practice and neither does anyone else. There are other things important to me besides Smash.

"fixing my habits" is assuming that I learn best by the same method most people usually do; practicing the exact same thing over and over and over. Everybody has different learning styles and I personally learn best by demonstrational instruction, but that doesn't seem to matter much if no one around me is even playing the game anymore. Keep in mind that I've hit a plateau because of that and I've been practicing the whole time. You were saying?

Being pro (or even being famous) does not and would not change what and who I am as a person. Meaning; having that status of skill or reputation does not mean nor give anyone the right to look down on others. It wouldn't change my genuine concern for others either. Honeslty, only a weak enough-minded (no offense to anyone) person would let something like victory pride consume who they are. The accusations don't even matter; It's the fact that you even THINK that those below your skill level are also beneath you as people. Which is a profoundly arrogant, ignorant and imperial way of thinking. You are no worse, but not better than anyone else.

You want to rag on me pinpointing emphasis in my posts, and the fact that I'm actually contributing to this thread & the metagame, yet the only reason you replied is to continue trying to justify acting like an ***hole and to continue fueling your pride with Meta Knight.

I'm not tryin' to be rude or anything, but I anxiously await the part where you try to tell me that I'm wrong.

Again, if ALMOST winning counts, then this list is very wrong. The fact is, results are the only way to prove anything. If you didn't win, you didn't win. That's that. Is tyrant the best marth for ALMOST beating ZeRo? NO. Does Hall taking a game off FOW make him at the level of Ally/MVD/Razer/Havok? No. Because they simply did not pull through and take the win. Simple as that. I don't know why it's such a debate, but set win's are wins no matter the set count, losses are losses.

No, I'm just saying thatt tournament results alone shouldn't be the only factors in determining ones skill. Wins are wins, but it's also important to recognize the skill to take those wins. Not their rank, but their skill. Having the skill to take games off people and (assuming it wasn't cause' of faulty things like SD's or tripping) doesn't necessarily mean you are at the same level, but it directly shows that you are capable of beating someone at that level from where you're at.

If you don't have the comparable skill, whether you win or lose wouldn't be a debate either.

 

[Sinister Slush]

If you want to contribute, stop playing brawl and wait for Smash 4 to come up from the ground.
Even gashi and I have contributed more than you for the scene/metagame just by theorycrafting for the MU chart 3 then you have posting and entering tournaments last year lol.

 

[Karaoke Man]

No.

If I wanted to give up on this game, I wouldn't have even posted in the thread. In fact, hardly anyone who posted in this thread wants to give up on this game. I'm not waiting till' Smash 4 to let players ruin that game's scene too; The scene for a new sequal means absolutely nothing if the mentality of the players are still the same. No thanks, I will pass on that.

Slush, you and Gashi (not necessarily exclusively) have contributed more than me, that's very true. However, that's why it's important to have many different people be apart of the matchup discussions because of the different types of insights on it. Judging by your manner to quickly give up on Brawl (which is understandable to a point), What you've said in the MU threads have probably amounted to something like this:

"Yoshi can't do this"
"Yoshi can't do that"
"Our character can't do this because he's trash"
"Well... we suck with Yoshi"

^ I literally saw nothing different of things like this in the Tier List v. 8 thread I recently commented in and mostly all of the Tier List threads for that matter. Which is exactly what happens when everything is based only off the facts with no abstract thinking whatsoever when you need BOTH of them. The quantity of what you've contributed is very commendable, but the quality of what I've heard is practically the same as what I've seen throughout the entirety of these boards.

So, no I'm not giving up. #Notsorry

:edit: Also, don't try to john for Joe. He admitted it himself. The term "random" has been around for a while as well. Fortunately, it's not as derogatory as "scrub" or what we heard earlier as a "bloody casual", but even so.
Labels like these are hurtful and obnoxiously judgemental. Getting trashed on for something trivial as a skill level is far beyond unacceptable.

 

[Seagull Joe]

I (MX) took him to game 3 at Apex 2012. vs pools . So like....because I'm not as known or that because of my area, I'm not able to attend as many tournies, that apparently means I'm automatcally a worse player than those that are able to.... LOL. llod (Peach player from MD/VA, I believe) beat Seagull in his first offline tourney in 2011 or 2012 and Joe practically never loses to "randoms".

Llod has been going to tourneys before me (2008). He has been a long time melee player. He played a lot of brawl too. He just didn't attend a lot of tourneys during the school year.

With the Seagull comment, that prolly wasn't even a term back in 2011/2012 (Loses to nobody) cause while he was top 5 in terms of Wolfs back when that old horrible thread was a thing, Kain and Mcpeepants was still a much better wolf back then. Now (like most characters) only have 1 or possibly even no main players for any characters under C tier while anything above that has 4+ people for that character.
Brawl is dead/dying I'll say again lol. Stop this thread and the competitive discussion and just let the tierlist (among the rest of brawl sub-forums) die and have the same old 5 or so people spamming the tierlist thread or new gens and such making new random threads like "how 2 play against X character" or "how save brawl?"

I never lost to randoms in my entire smash career outside of maybe 08/09. In 2011 and 2012 I was still considered top 2 at worst. McPeepants wasn't considered better then me in 2011/2012. He was never considered better. Only Kain was, but our placements and wins were always similar. I surpassed Kain in 2013/2014.

 

[Espy Rose]

Peepants is still the best.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

I need to go to an offline tourney already and be the best Link even many think that and it's WiFi, he he.

 

[Xiao-Xiao]

Please lock

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

Lol? I'm only mentioning I should go Offline and become the best Link because WiFi wont make that Valid, and I'm also typing that others feel the same way.

Please grow up and relax, I'm sorry to have distributed your Offline only work, WiFi sucks.

 

[infiniteV115]

So Quik just got 2nd at a European major, beating (and outplacing) both Leon and Mr.R. I have no idea what's going on anymore.

 

[Xiao-Xiao]

...

Lol? I'm only mentioning I should go Offline and become the best Link because WiFi wont make that Valid, and I'm also typing that others feel the same way.

Please grow up and relax, I'm sorry to have distributed your Offline only work, WiFi sucks.

Are you talking to me? Cus I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just saying this thread should be locked before it ends up like the top 5 thread

 

[| Big D |]

Had a conversation with Firefly recently.

I would like to point out something that I realized the other day...

Literally every other good to decent Brawl Yoshi has quit...

I'm the only one left that plays Brawl Yoshi at all.

Firefly best Yoshi.

Also V115 you've gotten so damn good it's like damn.

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

...

Are you talking to me? Cus I have no idea what you're talking about. I'm just saying this thread should be locked before it ends up like the top 5 thread

Ah, my apologies and deepest pity to myself, I just assumed since I mentioned WiFi, and I know many despise WiFi players saying or typing they're better than Offline players. Once again, my apologies, have a nice day, man.

 

[Deleted member]

Ah, my apologies and deepest pity to myself, I just assumed since I mentioned WiFi, and I know many despise WiFi players saying or typing they're better than Offline players. Once again, my apologies, have a nice day, man.

The irony since he doesn't even know who @ Xiao-Xiao is, and I'm going to laugh once he finds out.

 

[NH Cody]

when goldenyoshiking posts in a thread u know the thread's time has come

 

[N.T.A.O ChangeOfHeart 死の剣]

when goldenyoshiking posts in a thread u know the thread's time has come

Will you shut up already about that, I wish a mod could do something about that, I really do, moron.

@ Zan, the irony is I left and respond, why do people like you even exist. I wish there was a way you could block some people from posting back to you, paradise.

 

[Djent]

So Quik just got 2nd at a European major, beating (and outplacing) both Leon and Mr.R. I have no idea what's going on anymore.

I thought it was a rough MU; Mr. R. has lost to Quik several times now (IIRC) despite being "better" overall and understanding the character (he plays her as a tertiary). Does beat or am I imagining the horribly lopsided MU record and theoretical strengths she possesses?

 

[Deleted member]

salem beat mr r and mikeneko, sakasaka and kamemushi beat mikeneko, v115 beat leon, so i'd say its safe to assume zss beats marth

 

[Shiny Mewtwo aka Jigglysir]

salem beat mr r and mikeneko, sakasaka and kamemushi beat mikeneko, v115 beat leon, so i'd say its safe to assume zss beats marth

Only once, out of 6 sets while Leon was in Toronto, not really a good example for ZSS beating Marth

Actually Leon may have used Peach for some of those wins, I definitely saw the Peach come out a decent number of times, @ infiniteV115 what's your record just vs Leon's Marth?)

 

[infiniteV115]

Dunno what Salem thinks but myself Leon and Mr.R all feel that though the MU is very very close to even, Marth has the slight advantage.

Salem is 2-2 against Mr.R, I'm 1-5 against Leon, and Leon and Mr.R both have heavily positive records against Quik. Mikeneko did lose to Kamemushi once but I don't know what the overall record is. I hear he's 0-3 against Sakasaka but idk if that's true, I've only seen them play once.

Btw from what I've seen (and yes this is gonna sound silly because Mikeneko is amazing and he nearly beat Salem at Salem's best tournament), Mikeneko's not particularly good at that MU. Like the Snake MU for him, he's able to hold his own because he's an amazing player with godlike fundamentals but there are a lot of thing specific to the MU that he's not good at/doesn't know/doesn't use/etc.

Edit: If we're only counting sets in which Leon went Marth only, we're 1-3 in his favour.

Edit again: o ty dawson, I hear you've been givin'em the Big D yourself over there on the west coast

 

[Delta-cod]

Had a conversation with Firefly recently.



Firefly best Yoshi.

Also V115 you've gotten so damn good it's like damn.

You tell him I'm onto his shenanigans. We all know he's a Meta Knight now.

 

[~Firefly~]

=C

Edit: Whoa, I just scrolled up and saw actual discussion about active-ish Yoshis. I must be really out of touch. Disregard what Big D posted about me claiming to be the only active Yoshi. I suck, carry on.

 

[Sinister Slush]

All the Yoshi's still post of course. I hang out in the League thread and Smash 4 Yoshi boards along with Yika, dunno about Delta Raptor or MX, if Smash related tho.
I was staff for SJ last month and got 5th during that tournament out of 73 I think. Just we don't post results on snoreboreds (sa, well actually kinda TX in general) the past 2 or 3 years, and the fact the brackets were done on paper not tio file so yeah.

 

[Delta-cod]

I lurk this forum and the PM forum (for some reason), but I very rarely post. I usually go to one tournament every break I get during school, and I play a bunch while here. I'm not totally gone yet. =P

 

[#HBC | Scary]

Sheik would be cross because he has very solid wins in west japan where Ed lacks the quality of those wins.

Been working on this and getting great wins over the past few months. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.

 

[Deleted member]

Been working on this and getting great wins over the past few months. SOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOON!!!!!!!!!!!!!! lol.

WE'LL BE WAITING FOR YA

 

[Taytertot]

What about mikeneko for marth? I feel like he is better then mr. r not to say that mr. r isnt amazing.

 

[Djent]

Mikeneko quit IIRC.

 

[Taytertot]

really?! damn thats disappointing. when was that?

 

[Xiao-Xiao]

Didn't quit lol. Just doesn't enter singles cuz work johns