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Q&A Link's Take Over - Q&A and General Link Discussion
- Thread starter dablackpacman
- Start date
Bigglestheman
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 136
He didn't even leave a postcard of his whereabouts. Probably should hand this over to the X-Files.
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
HDL is probably jumping from cliff to cliff on a mountain somewhere to improve on his already stellar recovery.
TheBigBook
Smash Rookie
- Joined
- Nov 18, 2012
- Messages
- 4
So, about that boomerang. I love spamming it, but is it really worth it? I'm sure we've all been punished for its long start-up time, and even when it's out how many advantages does it have over the bomb? Yeah, it's nice that once it's out it's a hitbox roaming around without requiring further inputs/frames from me to make it move, but is that better than holding a bomb in my hand?
I guess that breaks down into two questions: How to make boomerang/laggy projectile-pull out safe in general, and when safe, when is boomerang better than bomb?
I guess that breaks down into two questions: How to make boomerang/laggy projectile-pull out safe in general, and when safe, when is boomerang better than bomb?
Skler
Smash Master
Boomerang is good if you can get it out. Situations it is useful in vary, but I find it superior to the bomb most of the time since it requires no input and gives you immediate threat and a better shot at pulling a bomb as well. If you get a bomb you might not get your rang out, if you get a rang out you're almost always going to be safe to get a bomb.
For laggy pulls, just SH backwards as you do it if you're being pressured. Most characters can't close the gap and hit you before you get your projectile out.
For laggy pulls, just SH backwards as you do it if you're being pressured. Most characters can't close the gap and hit you before you get your projectile out.
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
Rang has fewer frames than bombs before you got a hitbox out there. 27 for rang vs 39 for pull + another 10 or so for throwing the bomb. It got more range. It got different knockback. Thats the obvious stuff. These differences are however not concerning the projectiles more complex mechanics.
The rang is better the slower the opponent are. If the opponent can aproach you in the same time it takes you to throw it, it's generally a bad idea to throw it, you can get some time by doing the reatreating SH throw.
If you see them starting to sheild while you are doing your throw animation try to react and angle it upwards. This helps you in two ways. Firstly if the opponent sheilds your rang at the correct distance they can force catching lag and with that punish you. Secondly, the thrown rang wont get to waste, you will have use of that returning rang both for guarding you from aproaches AND help you pressure your opponent.
If you desire to experiment a little I think that SH rising bair -> DJ retreating rang seems like a good option as you will force sheild and with that immobility with the bair which helps you throw the rang safely over their heads. This makes it possible to do some.
The rang is good, but if you actually spam it you are either playing a defensive schmuck or doing something wrong IMO, it is not really great for damage racking, its a control tool to limit your opponent and help you doing the right choices.
The rang is better the slower the opponent are. If the opponent can aproach you in the same time it takes you to throw it, it's generally a bad idea to throw it, you can get some time by doing the reatreating SH throw.
If you see them starting to sheild while you are doing your throw animation try to react and angle it upwards. This helps you in two ways. Firstly if the opponent sheilds your rang at the correct distance they can force catching lag and with that punish you. Secondly, the thrown rang wont get to waste, you will have use of that returning rang both for guarding you from aproaches AND help you pressure your opponent.
If you desire to experiment a little I think that SH rising bair -> DJ retreating rang seems like a good option as you will force sheild and with that immobility with the bair which helps you throw the rang safely over their heads. This makes it possible to do some.
The rang is good, but if you actually spam it you are either playing a defensive schmuck or doing something wrong IMO, it is not really great for damage racking, its a control tool to limit your opponent and help you doing the right choices.
Eval
Smash Journeyman
Bigglestheman
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 136
FBI's most wanted list?I know where he is.
You guys will know soon too.
Eval
Smash Journeyman
I'm surprised no one has used the search feature at the entrants tab in the Apex Website. 
- Joined
- Feb 27, 2008
- Messages
- 26,545
Lord HDL should team with Skler.
Skler
Smash Master
Just looked through that and saw my new favorite person in the entire world. A person who entered under the name of...I'm surprised no one has used the search feature at the entrants tab in the Apex Website.
Luigigoeshard.
Bigglestheman
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Dec 11, 2011
- Messages
- 136
I like surprises. Also the country label should be U.S. territory cause Amurica!!!I'm surprised no one has used the search feature at the entrants tab in the Apex Website.
Like when im surprised with cake thats the best surprise of all.
Money of course beats cake it always does.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xhZ6zKuZFY0
Problem2
Smash Champion
This has been on my mind for a while. I really think that Peach is one of the best teammates for Link in teams. The two biggest strengths are that they both occupy space really well, and their moves rack up damage very quickly. Even the way they occupy space is different enough that it complements each other. Link is good at creating pressure beneath a platform, while Peach is good at floating above opponents, or she can d-smash on platforms as well. Because of the way they occupy different spaces, both characters are naturally in the right position often times to extend combos even further. Link can throw his projectiles which Peach can knock opponents into for some extra %. Link can follow up on most of Peach's throw directions and the launch angle(s) of her d-smash, and Peach can throw an aerial out at the end of many of Link's combos.
Both characters have a very good recovery, but one of the major weaknesses of having a good recovery is it leaves your teammate by themselves for a longer period of time. Peach's float ability however allows her to avoid combat more easily than most characters and can wait for Link to return, assuming she isn't trying to deter edgeguarders in the first place. (Perhaps, she stalls until Link gets close and then blocks edge guard attempts) Link is able to help Peach avoid edgeguarding as well with his ranged projectiles. Both characters have diverse recovery options, so it doesn't take much harassment to create an opening back on stage for your partner.
In terms of character match-ups, I think Link and Peach compliment their worry match-ups pretty well. In particular, they both actually help handle the part of their respective match-up vs the spacies that gives them trouble. The biggest issue Link faces vs space animals is the huge shield pressure they have on Link. Link is often easily forced into his shield, and while his sword spin protects him decently horizontally, having pressure from short hop attacks directly on your head covers most of Link's options. This presents a good oppurtunity for Peach to use your amazing aerials. I think her best assist is to float above and d-air, which creates a situation where Fox/Falco must be careful. Trying to continue to pressure Link can result in being d-air'd to n-air'd by Peach which will knock them off stage. Meanwhile, chasing Peach will let Link get directly underneath you, who will start u-airing. If the player flees and even gets nipped by d-air, Link can up-b oos and hit them too. What Link can do for Peach is basically keep the space animal's ground game in check. Grounded space animals are where Link is his strongest against them. They become more prone to silly stuff like grab, up-b, jab, and smashes 'n' stuff. Also a straight boomerang will occupy the ground space pretty well too.
The team does have a weakness though, and that is dealing with seperation. Neither character is very fast or super mobile, so it is hard for either character to get past an opponent and reunite with a teammate. This isn't necessarily always a problem for a top tier character such as Peach, but Link can get pooped on by a lot of things, so without Peach attending him, it's up to the skill of the Link player to not start losing. The best oppurtunity to seperate them both is while one or both of them is recovering. At this point, it is best for the Link or Peach that is still on stage to try and avoid conflict for a while, but at the same time this actually makes it a little easier for the opponent to shut Link/Peach out from his/her partner.
This idea of having Peach as a partner stems from recent experience in experimenting after a tournament, but there also happens to be a highly successful team featuring the duo, Lord HDL and Eval! I don't have any vids of myself doing this team yet, but here are a couple of theirs and I'll try to point out parts of the video to further explain what I mean.
vs Kel/Watty #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctINzX_B3Ls
I have no clue what happened and why they ended up on Stadium. This stage looks really good for both Fox and Samus, but oh well. Stage striking does not always put you on the most nuetral stage for the match-up.
0:25 Notice so far that Link is commonly on the ground while Peach is usually close to either platform or on them. This to me is the conventional setup for the team.
0:28, Fox starts shield pressuring Link, but shortly after, Peach floats above. I'm not sure if Peach's presence is what leaves Fox open, but Fox continues to full hop stuff and Link punishes with u-air shortly after
0:30 Samus goes to try and edgeguard Link, but Peach spooks her for just a moment, long enough for Link to secure his way back on stage.
0:39 - 0:50 Link kind of starts ignoring the fact that Peach needs help to harrass Samus instead. Understandably, you cannot ignore either opponent, but HDL lets himself be drawn away from Fox. Luckily, Fox gets greedy and tries to run and u-smash Link, which only lets Peach get back on stage.
0:54 not sure why Fox stopped and u-smashed, but he's horizontal of Link's sheild which means SKRAAAAHHH!! (and Peach's n-air lol)
1:02 Peach is allowed to safely float behind Link as Link prevents Fox from simply running on foot after her.
1:16 - 1:24 The stage transformation encourages the two to split up. Link gets hungry for the kill on Samus leaving Peach to fend off Fox while at high percent. Sadly, both of red team lose a stock here.
1:30 - 1:43 LOLOLOL
Mostly basic stuff happens from this point on. Pretty close game 1, but HDL/Eval take it.
vs Kel/Watty #2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZazEMtZRPw
0:58 We're about a minute in and both opponents have over 150% damage. Shame we're on dreamland, or they probably wouldn't be still living right now.
1:07 Link accidentally airdodges and who know's what Peach is doing. Oops, Fox gets a double KO.
1:25 Link's in trouble and is forced to hold shield again. Peach comes in with d-air, d-smash and Fox dies.
About this part, the game kind of dissolves into two pairs of single matches going on. Team work stops being emphasized by the red team.
4:02 Boomerang save by Link
Game 2, as the match progressed, the fight started to shift into two sets of singles. Though they picked good match-ups (Link vs Samus, and Peach vs Fox), they were still outed mostly due to that and the other team did exploit them slowly returning to stage, which while not as bad as most teams with good recoveries, is still a weakness.
vs Kel/Watty #3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPndvMWx68
HDL and Eval choose Yoshi's Story. Small stage with low platforms. Allows Link and Peach to guard all the space. Very little safe places to be for the opponent and Samus dies much earlier now.
1:25 Fox tries to drop b-air to the ground to edgeguard Peach, but eats sword spin instead. Samus thought it looked good and tasted it too.
2:08 normally, it would be great to just short hop all over Link's head when he's stuck like this, but this damn ***** keeps floating in the way! Sword Spin breaks it up.
3:00 Samus keeps getting hit by Peach. Link follows with projectiles to keep Samus from being very mobile.
3:06 Link tries to protect Peach with a bomb, but misses Fox.
3:28 Watty being a smart player.
3:45 - 3:49 Link launches Fox. Normally this leads to a situation where Link must read where Fox is going to try to escape to, but Peach happens to be where she is needed floating underneath the platform. She covers one of Fox's options and spooks Fox into rolling back towards Link where he eats a nice, beefy d-air.
3:54 Peach is still above, Fox tries to u-smash Link and gets grabbed instead.
Overall, game 3 I think best shows what I am trying to explain. Both Link and Peach provide a more consistant presence for each other that limits their opponents into doing options they want.
Here are some more vids of Link/Peach being piloted by HDL/Eval that I didn't feel like commenting on:
vs LK & Wandering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7i8_W3TyRE
vs Doh & Chillin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M993hS8OY3I
vs E.Zero & F.H@wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMRZN2XekGI
Both characters have a very good recovery, but one of the major weaknesses of having a good recovery is it leaves your teammate by themselves for a longer period of time. Peach's float ability however allows her to avoid combat more easily than most characters and can wait for Link to return, assuming she isn't trying to deter edgeguarders in the first place. (Perhaps, she stalls until Link gets close and then blocks edge guard attempts) Link is able to help Peach avoid edgeguarding as well with his ranged projectiles. Both characters have diverse recovery options, so it doesn't take much harassment to create an opening back on stage for your partner.
In terms of character match-ups, I think Link and Peach compliment their worry match-ups pretty well. In particular, they both actually help handle the part of their respective match-up vs the spacies that gives them trouble. The biggest issue Link faces vs space animals is the huge shield pressure they have on Link. Link is often easily forced into his shield, and while his sword spin protects him decently horizontally, having pressure from short hop attacks directly on your head covers most of Link's options. This presents a good oppurtunity for Peach to use your amazing aerials. I think her best assist is to float above and d-air, which creates a situation where Fox/Falco must be careful. Trying to continue to pressure Link can result in being d-air'd to n-air'd by Peach which will knock them off stage. Meanwhile, chasing Peach will let Link get directly underneath you, who will start u-airing. If the player flees and even gets nipped by d-air, Link can up-b oos and hit them too. What Link can do for Peach is basically keep the space animal's ground game in check. Grounded space animals are where Link is his strongest against them. They become more prone to silly stuff like grab, up-b, jab, and smashes 'n' stuff. Also a straight boomerang will occupy the ground space pretty well too.
The team does have a weakness though, and that is dealing with seperation. Neither character is very fast or super mobile, so it is hard for either character to get past an opponent and reunite with a teammate. This isn't necessarily always a problem for a top tier character such as Peach, but Link can get pooped on by a lot of things, so without Peach attending him, it's up to the skill of the Link player to not start losing. The best oppurtunity to seperate them both is while one or both of them is recovering. At this point, it is best for the Link or Peach that is still on stage to try and avoid conflict for a while, but at the same time this actually makes it a little easier for the opponent to shut Link/Peach out from his/her partner.
This idea of having Peach as a partner stems from recent experience in experimenting after a tournament, but there also happens to be a highly successful team featuring the duo, Lord HDL and Eval! I don't have any vids of myself doing this team yet, but here are a couple of theirs and I'll try to point out parts of the video to further explain what I mean.
vs Kel/Watty #1
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ctINzX_B3Ls
I have no clue what happened and why they ended up on Stadium. This stage looks really good for both Fox and Samus, but oh well. Stage striking does not always put you on the most nuetral stage for the match-up.
0:25 Notice so far that Link is commonly on the ground while Peach is usually close to either platform or on them. This to me is the conventional setup for the team.
0:28, Fox starts shield pressuring Link, but shortly after, Peach floats above. I'm not sure if Peach's presence is what leaves Fox open, but Fox continues to full hop stuff and Link punishes with u-air shortly after
0:30 Samus goes to try and edgeguard Link, but Peach spooks her for just a moment, long enough for Link to secure his way back on stage.
0:39 - 0:50 Link kind of starts ignoring the fact that Peach needs help to harrass Samus instead. Understandably, you cannot ignore either opponent, but HDL lets himself be drawn away from Fox. Luckily, Fox gets greedy and tries to run and u-smash Link, which only lets Peach get back on stage.
0:54 not sure why Fox stopped and u-smashed, but he's horizontal of Link's sheild which means SKRAAAAHHH!! (and Peach's n-air lol)
1:02 Peach is allowed to safely float behind Link as Link prevents Fox from simply running on foot after her.
1:16 - 1:24 The stage transformation encourages the two to split up. Link gets hungry for the kill on Samus leaving Peach to fend off Fox while at high percent. Sadly, both of red team lose a stock here.
1:30 - 1:43 LOLOLOL
Mostly basic stuff happens from this point on. Pretty close game 1, but HDL/Eval take it.
vs Kel/Watty #2
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZazEMtZRPw
0:58 We're about a minute in and both opponents have over 150% damage. Shame we're on dreamland, or they probably wouldn't be still living right now.
1:07 Link accidentally airdodges and who know's what Peach is doing. Oops, Fox gets a double KO.
1:25 Link's in trouble and is forced to hold shield again. Peach comes in with d-air, d-smash and Fox dies.
About this part, the game kind of dissolves into two pairs of single matches going on. Team work stops being emphasized by the red team.
4:02 Boomerang save by Link
Game 2, as the match progressed, the fight started to shift into two sets of singles. Though they picked good match-ups (Link vs Samus, and Peach vs Fox), they were still outed mostly due to that and the other team did exploit them slowly returning to stage, which while not as bad as most teams with good recoveries, is still a weakness.
vs Kel/Watty #3
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NLPndvMWx68
HDL and Eval choose Yoshi's Story. Small stage with low platforms. Allows Link and Peach to guard all the space. Very little safe places to be for the opponent and Samus dies much earlier now.
1:25 Fox tries to drop b-air to the ground to edgeguard Peach, but eats sword spin instead. Samus thought it looked good and tasted it too.
2:08 normally, it would be great to just short hop all over Link's head when he's stuck like this, but this damn ***** keeps floating in the way! Sword Spin breaks it up.
3:00 Samus keeps getting hit by Peach. Link follows with projectiles to keep Samus from being very mobile.
3:06 Link tries to protect Peach with a bomb, but misses Fox.
3:28 Watty being a smart player.
3:45 - 3:49 Link launches Fox. Normally this leads to a situation where Link must read where Fox is going to try to escape to, but Peach happens to be where she is needed floating underneath the platform. She covers one of Fox's options and spooks Fox into rolling back towards Link where he eats a nice, beefy d-air.
3:54 Peach is still above, Fox tries to u-smash Link and gets grabbed instead.
Overall, game 3 I think best shows what I am trying to explain. Both Link and Peach provide a more consistant presence for each other that limits their opponents into doing options they want.
Here are some more vids of Link/Peach being piloted by HDL/Eval that I didn't feel like commenting on:
vs LK & Wandering
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7i8_W3TyRE
vs Doh & Chillin
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M993hS8OY3I
vs E.Zero & F.H@wk
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CMRZN2XekGI
Eval
Smash Journeyman
I find this a pretty good analysis. Gonna go real quick on this since I'm at work but yeah you got a lot o the main point of Peach + Link.
Usually the main goal is to isolate one of the opponents out and **** the other one. Peach can serve as a wall for the op. partner while at the same time can complement with aerials Link's combos. Also, like you said Peach can cover the air really well while Link secures the ground. She can also camp float to wait for link to return.
The main weakness we faced at Pound 4 was Sheik. We lost to double Sheik and Tope Sheik and Cyrain fox.
Overall its a super solid team. Its a pity we couldn't get on time to Apex 2013 and **** some teams!
Usually the main goal is to isolate one of the opponents out and **** the other one. Peach can serve as a wall for the op. partner while at the same time can complement with aerials Link's combos. Also, like you said Peach can cover the air really well while Link secures the ground. She can also camp float to wait for link to return.
The main weakness we faced at Pound 4 was Sheik. We lost to double Sheik and Tope Sheik and Cyrain fox.
Overall its a super solid team. Its a pity we couldn't get on time to Apex 2013 and **** some teams!
Blubba_Pinecone
Smash Ace
Dunno if this is known or not (though I assume it is), but I'll share anyways.
I made a dumb type of SKRAAA cancel that involves eating 4%.
SH > Z drop bomb as close to ground as possible > SKRAAAA > hold down to CC bomb
Under 34% you are set back to normal... greater than or equal to 34% you can bomb tech to wherever.
Kinda stupid but you might be able to punish a baited punish, or something.
I made a dumb type of SKRAAA cancel that involves eating 4%.
SH > Z drop bomb as close to ground as possible > SKRAAAA > hold down to CC bomb
Under 34% you are set back to normal... greater than or equal to 34% you can bomb tech to wherever.
Kinda stupid but you might be able to punish a baited punish, or something.
Ryu_Ken
Ace Adventurer and Truth Seeker
So I guess It's like this:
Link: Good against fastfallers and spacies with his attack range and knockback
Young Link: Good against heavy weights cause he can easily combo
Correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Also wondering if there are any good combos that involve dair?
Link: Good against fastfallers and spacies with his attack range and knockback
Young Link: Good against heavy weights cause he can easily combo
Correct me if I'm wrong about this.
Also wondering if there are any good combos that involve dair?
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
Heres a list of how things can link to a dair.
almost always possible:
close range rang -> dair.
bomb -> dair
dtilt -> dair
percentage specific:
weak-hit uair -> dair
utilt -> dair (mid percentage, mostly useful against puff IMO)
dash attack -> dair(mostly against fastfallers)
dthrow -> dair(floaties)
uthrow -> dair(fastfallers, can option select fair if they DI a lot an you screw up a little)
SH bair -> DJ dair
second hit dsmash -> dair
some other situations:
Any tech chase, especially bottom platforms, but also top platforms or any other situation.
When getting up from ledge and they are trying to CC(they are crouching) the dair is the move that counters their CC.
Against characters with small downwards disjoint and when they have no jump you can go for a dair whenever you want.
A floating peach is asking for a dair to the face.
Heero Yuy
#sweg
Question: Whenever I use Link, I tend not to WD at all, and I seem to do as good when I do. The main reason being that Link has the 2nd worst traction in the game and the WD doesn't really seem to have any effect on his movement.
Basically, instead of being a Germ...I play like an Aniki. Will not WDing be a bad move in the long run?
Basically, instead of being a Germ...I play like an Aniki. Will not WDing be a bad move in the long run?
Problem2
Smash Champion
There is no sense in wavedashing in certain situations if you feel there are better options at that time. I would recommend learning to waveland onto platforms. It's really good
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
yes
nowadays i cant picture anyone being even moderately successful without it
inb4someonesaysjiggsbecausethatsstillwrong
RvlvRBobcat
Smash Apprentice
i just recently switched my main in melee from falcon to link because link is a badass. I feel like i've made a good choice.
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
I use my WD to fake movement, e.g. dash forward WD back. This baits moves from the opponent and can help you get wiffs. In some situations also have an option select tech roll which is great at higher percentages, so instead of dashing or jumping in I try to WD so that worst case scenario just is some extra percent and not an offstage launch. The most clear argument to use WD is that you can not jab or ftilt out of a dash. Ftilt is good in some edgeguard situations and oftenwise those situations is when you lack time for a more proper edgeguard. WD OoS is also very useful in some occasions to close in on people that tries to outspace you. There are also situations where you might want to dodge the attack with a WD and then counter their lag with something nice like an fsmash (kinda like pseudo gimpyfish combo), in these situations I WD cause I can't pivot good enough.
Heero Yuy
#sweg
That's probably the most helpful post I've read in my short time on this site. Thanks Lootic!
Jackie
Smash Journeyman
I'm proud of this single combo http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qU2xD9Aqv8g#t=22m12s
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
Totally my pleasure.That's probably the most helpful post I've read in my short time on this site. Thanks Lootic!
Answering questions helps me analyze my own game.
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
You know what's super neato about Link? The fact that he has bombs and that he can drop them. I wish I saw more bomb drop stuff in Link vidjos.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
i thought you play falco now
Tshadow7
Smash Apprentice
Hey Guys Im a Link main and I want to hear your guys critique on my videos so you can tell me in what things i need to improve
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c5r9v-YA4A
My best fights are the first and the last, and this falco is clearly above my level,
Thanks :D
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7c5r9v-YA4A
My best fights are the first and the last, and this falco is clearly above my level,
Thanks :D
MALVM MALVM
Smash Apprentice
I'm seeing three things:
1) You're missing a lot of L-cancels, fast falls, and such.
2) You waste a lot of time. This kinda ties in with 1 in that if you are able to do all of the above, you'll have more time to spend doing things. For example, when you're boomeranging, there's infrequently a reason to not jump and reposition yourself while ranging. Do the same thing while pulling a bomb. You often do a lot of things, none of which have relevance to the match. There're some stuff you do like d-smash and hope that it works. That's not really an efficient use of time, which is precious to Link. In stead of thinking that you have to hit the other guy all the time, think about how you could most productively use your time. Sometimes it's WD back, sometimes it's jumping back and ranging. It's rare that the most effecting thing you can do is d-smash or up-b because they're not as likely to put you in a better situation.
3) You attack where the other guy used to be. Falco is fast. Really fast. You're reeeeeally slow. You need to lead your shots. This doesn't mean that you need to throw out a move and hope that they move into it, it means that you need to throw out moves that they WILL move into. If they have a pattern, you can punish them. Predictable escapes, movement, and approaches can all be punished by Link's slow but powerful and high-utility moves.
1) You're missing a lot of L-cancels, fast falls, and such.
2) You waste a lot of time. This kinda ties in with 1 in that if you are able to do all of the above, you'll have more time to spend doing things. For example, when you're boomeranging, there's infrequently a reason to not jump and reposition yourself while ranging. Do the same thing while pulling a bomb. You often do a lot of things, none of which have relevance to the match. There're some stuff you do like d-smash and hope that it works. That's not really an efficient use of time, which is precious to Link. In stead of thinking that you have to hit the other guy all the time, think about how you could most productively use your time. Sometimes it's WD back, sometimes it's jumping back and ranging. It's rare that the most effecting thing you can do is d-smash or up-b because they're not as likely to put you in a better situation.
3) You attack where the other guy used to be. Falco is fast. Really fast. You're reeeeeally slow. You need to lead your shots. This doesn't mean that you need to throw out a move and hope that they move into it, it means that you need to throw out moves that they WILL move into. If they have a pattern, you can punish them. Predictable escapes, movement, and approaches can all be punished by Link's slow but powerful and high-utility moves.
DuckPimp
Smash Ace
Falco is about as fast as licorice n molasses on a hot ju-ly day
but yeah you're right, malvm.
(adding on to malvm on point 3) basically one of the main goals of dashdancing and movement in general is to position yourself advantageously. I didn't watch your video, but this is essential information regardless of its relevance to your match. if you look at the neutral game from your opponents perspective, if he notices or reacts to the fact that you might throw out a poorly spaced aerial (one that would only hit him in one part of his dashdance, for example), hes just gonna grab you or dair or something after you miss him. like malvm said, if there are certain conditions you know will happen, you can adjust your approaches or defenses accordingly. You can overshoot aerials to cover more of the dashdance, space him into a corner and cover safe options, etc. There are really specific ways to have people "run into" your aerials, and once you possess greater control over your character you can use those to your advantage and have better results rather than throwing them out and hoping they f*** up and approach at the wrong time or something.
Going a bit tangential here, but these kinds of things are why lower-tiered characters are odd beasts for beginners to tackle. It's interesting to consider multiple schools of thought in terms of the "best" learning process for this game. It's also interesting to put yourself in the mind of a higher-level low-tier player, because generally speaking they all have high tier characters that they can play at least passably. I wonder if, going back to their younger days in their smash careers, they would change anything about their development and direction. Did they know that their ultimate goal would be to become crazy-good at *character*? Did they play *high-tier* character first? At what point did they notice the most improvement in their game? Why?
I had more to post but it was largely conjecture and long-winded, as the ideas haven't solidified in my head well enough to be stated in a concise and logical manner. Basically the topic im going for is the evolution of a low-tier player, and why so many of the ones that try and stick solely with *low tier character* from the beginning have more trouble than high-tier players (besides the obvious "high tier characters are better/easier or w/e). If your goal is to have link as your main character, what would be the best/quickest way to streamline your development to minimize "oh fk link just sucks im depressed" moments (ive had my fair share with falcon, and im still on my way developmentally)
cant think of a good way to end this post.
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
Since I play Marth at times and is quite analytic in my nature on how to play I think I can answer that in a good enough manner. Im no top player though so take my analysis for what it is.
When I play Link I try to find out what my opponent doesn't know about the matchup or erratious behavior(like rolling habits, sloppy projectile game, tech patterns and so on) I search for it a whole lot and almost every set I loose the first match(and still I get out of pools here pretty often since after that I often can play better and win two straight matches). I need to find what the opponent doesn't do well before I can start exploiting it, I am more forced to find weaknesses. When I play Marth I often lead the match more and finding weaknesses aren't equally important to make use of him effectively, I can play more straightforward(and also has less tools doing weird stuff). I feel that my Link helps my Marth more than the other way round though.
When I play Link I try to find out what my opponent doesn't know about the matchup or erratious behavior(like rolling habits, sloppy projectile game, tech patterns and so on) I search for it a whole lot and almost every set I loose the first match(and still I get out of pools here pretty often since after that I often can play better and win two straight matches). I need to find what the opponent doesn't do well before I can start exploiting it, I am more forced to find weaknesses. When I play Marth I often lead the match more and finding weaknesses aren't equally important to make use of him effectively, I can play more straightforward(and also has less tools doing weird stuff). I feel that my Link helps my Marth more than the other way round though.
Heero Yuy
#sweg
(bump)
I could see it kinda for C. Falcon, but what use exists for Link's moonwalk?
I could see it kinda for C. Falcon, but what use exists for Link's moonwalk?
Problem2
Smash Champion
ummmm.... ^_^
Skeith
Smash Apprentice
Generally for stuff like this. http://youtu.be/UEcvR7Qfz_Q?t=28s
SYickX
Smash Cadet
Do any other Link players know about the third wall on battlefield?
Hitting it is technically impressive, but you hit your head on a ceiling. That cancels the HSJ lag.
I wouldn't say it is a spot to actively go for, but it is certainly wise to recognize its existence.
(It looks like a tiny spike just under the normal ledge and above those 3 curves spikes that aren't walls.)
(Also, wall 1: the normal thin wall that includes the edge; wall 2: the low wall that holds that big shiny orb thing; wall 3: the spike I'm talking about.)
Hitting it is technically impressive, but you hit your head on a ceiling. That cancels the HSJ lag.
I wouldn't say it is a spot to actively go for, but it is certainly wise to recognize its existence.
(It looks like a tiny spike just under the normal ledge and above those 3 curves spikes that aren't walls.)
(Also, wall 1: the normal thin wall that includes the edge; wall 2: the low wall that holds that big shiny orb thing; wall 3: the spike I'm talking about.)
Laijin
Smash Hero
Are there any setups for Link that leads to a forward smash?
Looticforgothispassword
Smash Ace
Yes! Here is some safe trys from the top of my head:
Bomb OoS leads to fsmash at 0-20% against fastfallers, including spacies.
You can use a returning rang and a roll to set up for a fsmash, roll past them so a missed returning rang will hit them. (imagine you are facing your opponent and the rang is returning from behind you)
On the edge of any platform and the stage you can time the fsmash so that the first hit, if it hits their shield, pushes them off the platform and the second swing connects as they are beggining to fall.
As they land far from you, you can try to quickly get off a double fsmash spacing it so only the last hit connects. Make sure to count their jumps so they can´t just DJ and punish it.
When rang returns you can do dair so that the shield stun from the dair, if they shield it, links to the shield stun from the rang(credits to skler for this trick) and then you will be at the right distance to continually sheild stun with a double fsmash. This eats off a whole lot of shield and you can get shield breaks with it.
Airdodge or roll through the opponent as your bomb explodes, then combo into any move, among these maybe your fsmash if you need the extra range.
Utilts can combo into it if opponents choose(and choose bad for some reason cause you have shown off some really cool combo skills) to DI in a certain way.
Space with it, especially when in a centerstage position and somewhere in between jabs and fairs, you get pseudo pressure from the second swing advantage.
Link is a bag full of tiny tricks, so there are probably more uses that I don`t know yet, be creative!
Bomb OoS leads to fsmash at 0-20% against fastfallers, including spacies.
You can use a returning rang and a roll to set up for a fsmash, roll past them so a missed returning rang will hit them. (imagine you are facing your opponent and the rang is returning from behind you)
On the edge of any platform and the stage you can time the fsmash so that the first hit, if it hits their shield, pushes them off the platform and the second swing connects as they are beggining to fall.
As they land far from you, you can try to quickly get off a double fsmash spacing it so only the last hit connects. Make sure to count their jumps so they can´t just DJ and punish it.
When rang returns you can do dair so that the shield stun from the dair, if they shield it, links to the shield stun from the rang(credits to skler for this trick) and then you will be at the right distance to continually sheild stun with a double fsmash. This eats off a whole lot of shield and you can get shield breaks with it.
Airdodge or roll through the opponent as your bomb explodes, then combo into any move, among these maybe your fsmash if you need the extra range.
Utilts can combo into it if opponents choose(and choose bad for some reason cause you have shown off some really cool combo skills) to DI in a certain way.
Space with it, especially when in a centerstage position and somewhere in between jabs and fairs, you get pseudo pressure from the second swing advantage.
Link is a bag full of tiny tricks, so there are probably more uses that I don`t know yet, be creative!
SYickX
Smash Cadet
I get a lot of mileage out of cross-ups and shield pressure to land (imo) one of Link's best moves. It has solid range and isn't abysmally slow.
Hit people's shield with f-smash. Link can use the second hit to cover just about every OOS option for every character with proper timing and spacing. (This takes a lot of practice, experience and good knowledge of your opponent's OOS habits.) You can get good enough to with double f-smash to do tons of shield damage and commonly poke for a solid hit.
Some situations:
f-smash shield, they stay in shield, wait out the double f-smash window, then f-smash again. (If they stayed in shield for the second one, a quick double with almost surely poke or break the shield.)
f-smash shield, they roll toward, SKRAAAAA (Peach especially loves to do this.)
f-smash shield, anything that's aggressive and not a jump, double f-smash.
f-smash shield, they jump, double f-smash (this is not a reaction, it's a read)
Runaway, cc, reverse f-smash is a great spacing tool for aggressive opponents. Non aggressive opponents can have your bombs.
Note, most characters can punish the first f-smash by crouch canceling it. These techniques don't work very well on slippery characters like Luigi and IC.
I know these seem a tad risky, but keep in mind that double f-smash does upwards of 30% all by itself. That puts most characters in the uair danger zone.
Hit people's shield with f-smash. Link can use the second hit to cover just about every OOS option for every character with proper timing and spacing. (This takes a lot of practice, experience and good knowledge of your opponent's OOS habits.) You can get good enough to with double f-smash to do tons of shield damage and commonly poke for a solid hit.
Some situations:
f-smash shield, they stay in shield, wait out the double f-smash window, then f-smash again. (If they stayed in shield for the second one, a quick double with almost surely poke or break the shield.)
f-smash shield, they roll toward, SKRAAAAA (Peach especially loves to do this.)
f-smash shield, anything that's aggressive and not a jump, double f-smash.
f-smash shield, they jump, double f-smash (this is not a reaction, it's a read)
Runaway, cc, reverse f-smash is a great spacing tool for aggressive opponents. Non aggressive opponents can have your bombs.
Note, most characters can punish the first f-smash by crouch canceling it. These techniques don't work very well on slippery characters like Luigi and IC.
I know these seem a tad risky, but keep in mind that double f-smash does upwards of 30% all by itself. That puts most characters in the uair danger zone.
MR_Scribble
Smash Cadet
Questions
1) Using bombs to recover, always go for it? because if he comes out and Spikes you while you pull it out your basically dead.
2) When going for a grab do it when there around edges? because of limited there movement options? anyone tell me some good grab setups?
3)I see a lot of links pull out the bomb in the neutral fight even when right in front of them I find when you do this you can get heavily punished when pulling it out your opinions?
4) When it comes to stages what should I like? I like the space of dream land for projectiles but Story for its possibility for easy kills which can go vice versa, also I know we are supposed to hate battlefield for its thin ledge but when it comes to battlefield or fd against a Falco im not sure which to ban cause of stupid lazer camping
Btw if it makes a huge difference I play on PAL
An answer to any questions is appreciated.
1) Using bombs to recover, always go for it? because if he comes out and Spikes you while you pull it out your basically dead.
2) When going for a grab do it when there around edges? because of limited there movement options? anyone tell me some good grab setups?
3)I see a lot of links pull out the bomb in the neutral fight even when right in front of them I find when you do this you can get heavily punished when pulling it out your opinions?
4) When it comes to stages what should I like? I like the space of dream land for projectiles but Story for its possibility for easy kills which can go vice versa, also I know we are supposed to hate battlefield for its thin ledge but when it comes to battlefield or fd against a Falco im not sure which to ban cause of stupid lazer camping
Btw if it makes a huge difference I play on PAL
An answer to any questions is appreciated.
SYickX
Smash Cadet
Answers:
1) My rule of thumb with using bombs is "if I can pull it, throw it and still have room for my hookshot, then pull the bomb." Otherwise, get to that stage and save my jump till after the hookshot.
If you're in that awkward spot between those cases, then you just have to know your opponent's edgeguarding habits to pick the better option.
2) Link doesn't have many great grad setups. The main issue is lack of a ranged air grab, which makes jump the movement option beating Link's grab. My personal favorite grab situations are:
-Just as the opponent lands (make sure they used their double-jump already)
-Boomerang return (the timing is a bit tricky though)
-Nari/fair to grab is somewhat good at lowish %
-If you can manage to trap someone in a shield by bouncing a bomb off it, grabs can be somewhat safe.
-Shield Peach's down-smash or Marth's forward-smash.
3) I've done it, but it's a really tricky mind-game. You need a great pressure game, and that takes a lot of practice with Link. I prefer to pull my bombs from behind a boomerang or after the last hit of a combo, or on the ledge/during recovery.
4) "I like all the stages!" The only stage that I think is bad for Link is DK 64, and you'll only ever see that in teams.
Falco's lasers aren't so bad. Remember, you can throw bombs out of shield in any of the 4 directions. Learn how to edge your slower, higher damaging projectiles around his faster, lower damaging projectiles.
An example of damage: Powershielded laser + (good) bomb is 10% to 15% or about 5 lasers. So you can get hit a lot more, but still win the % war.
Try to powershield, it's not super hard.
Watch the Falco, he will tell you exactly where those lasers are going to be.
1) My rule of thumb with using bombs is "if I can pull it, throw it and still have room for my hookshot, then pull the bomb." Otherwise, get to that stage and save my jump till after the hookshot.
If you're in that awkward spot between those cases, then you just have to know your opponent's edgeguarding habits to pick the better option.
2) Link doesn't have many great grad setups. The main issue is lack of a ranged air grab, which makes jump the movement option beating Link's grab. My personal favorite grab situations are:
-Just as the opponent lands (make sure they used their double-jump already)
-Boomerang return (the timing is a bit tricky though)
-Nari/fair to grab is somewhat good at lowish %
-If you can manage to trap someone in a shield by bouncing a bomb off it, grabs can be somewhat safe.
-Shield Peach's down-smash or Marth's forward-smash.
3) I've done it, but it's a really tricky mind-game. You need a great pressure game, and that takes a lot of practice with Link. I prefer to pull my bombs from behind a boomerang or after the last hit of a combo, or on the ledge/during recovery.
4) "I like all the stages!" The only stage that I think is bad for Link is DK 64, and you'll only ever see that in teams.
Falco's lasers aren't so bad. Remember, you can throw bombs out of shield in any of the 4 directions. Learn how to edge your slower, higher damaging projectiles around his faster, lower damaging projectiles.
An example of damage: Powershielded laser + (good) bomb is 10% to 15% or about 5 lasers. So you can get hit a lot more, but still win the % war.
Try to powershield, it's not super hard.
Watch the Falco, he will tell you exactly where those lasers are going to be.