Q&A Link's Take Over - Q&A and General Link Discussion

[BBQTV]

wat? Toon link isn't in this game and y.link is worse.

oh i thought this was for brawl

 

[huMps]

A great falcon is beatable with link and it actually happens this isn't just theory lol I believe germ just beat scar in a recent tourney. Fox is a bad match-up if the player is very good but when I'm playing a mediocre fox (90% of fox players) I enjoy the match-up. Falco and Sheik imo are by far the worst match ups for Link. Falco - short hop lazer and sheild pressure, not real hard to do. Theres no easy falco match. sheik is just to ****ing fast and edge guards to ****ing good. That being said, I do not think we will ever see link win a national tournament, But I can see him winning any regional(inconsistently).

 

[Blazing]

People fox is not link's worst match up shiek is xD

And that is beacause maybe you can fight better against shiek but once she gets you it could mean a stock CG FTW!. Against fox you can at least do more stuff when he gets you and defend yourself, all you need is pacience since people tend to get crazy with him because of his speed but links got the best tool to stop that and that is Dash Attack. Trust me it stops every sh aproach the fox does and it can also lead to combos but dont use it prematurely cause it wont do a thing xD you gotta rack up some % first

 

[cjugs]

Something like a dash attack to approaches is good but when you are playing a set of matches a good fox will catch onto this.
Sheik is definetly links worst matchup in my opinion, because it takes a good fox or falco or falcon to beat link sheik i have played sheiks who are so bad at this game i win but not by how much i win by is i used fox.
I haven't seen anyone beat a falcon except when hdl beat ss in friendly's not to take anything away from him but it was just a friendly. skler played scar and did well but mind you what i said before up throw knee is to easy to pull off and it leaves link at too big a disadvantage. Idk about Germ beating scar but if he did it is because other than Germ being a God he moves around the stage better than any other link.

 

[Blazing]

I agree that a fox can cash on but that is why you need to mix things up. People need to remember that link is a risk taking character, if you don't take risk's with him you wont win and dash attacks is not the only tool to stop approaches that he has is just he's best one

on the falcon thing yes he can combo link very easy( like half of the cast lol) but it does not mean that he is useless against him. Like i said dash attack stops every approach and beats every aerial in the game, but now like you said he can catch on but link's got the almighty nair xD to still beat him out almost out of everything so you cant say its impossible it's just a matter of who does the more mistakes and yeah falcon, fox, falco, and shiek can afford to do more mistakes which is why this are hes bad match ups but not impossible one

 

[cjugs]

There are not impossible to win no but the majority will always be for those other characters and the best link will not beat the best sheik fox falco falcon. For example let's say Germ beats m2k hdl beats mango skler beats darkrain and spife beats lucky they may win a match but winning tourny's is not only one one match and that beaing said even if that were to happen that is doesn't mean they can beat every sheik fox falco falcon and nor can alot of link players this thread did not ask if link had the potential to it said link could i am saying link can but won't by himself at least you may be able to win a tourny if you play link only certain times but don't expect to win unless you have a top tier main.

 

[Skler]

Why were Germ and Scar playing in a recent tourny? They live on opposite coasts.

Link vs Falcon is pretty stupid at high levels.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rADQTR0h8lU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2kevRMTPus&feature=related

I screw up a few times (didn't punish as hard as I could have a few times, rapid jabs coming out of nowhere >.>) but just look at how easily Falcon can avoid Link's defensive moves and land grabs/nairs. Falcon is playing a completely different game than Link.

I'd say in honest to god difficulty if your opponent is willing to be campy/gay then the worst matchups are, in order: Fox, Sheik <small gap> Falcon, Falco <large gap> other characters. Falcon and Falco are really too close to call. Falco is pretty killable whereas Falcon survives longer but has far less pew pew obnoxiousness.

 

[dablackpacman]

the up-throw into a knee is just stupid to bring in the conversation cuz u have to be at a higher percent to not have the correct di to get away. at the same percent, link can uthrow-dair falco n falcon. I've never said at any point that link (right now) is gonna be winning tournaments especially with nay sayin link mains. I'm simply addressing the issue that Link does have the potential to win tourneys and keep pace with most characters. Wasnt it just a few years ago that they said jiggz culd never win a tournament? especially with fox being able to kill her at like 60% and now both coasts have a jiggz who has beaten m2k's fox

we all know the match-ups, its clear. shouldnt be sitting here arguing over what this character can do or what that one can. if you pay link competitively, you already know what "can" happen to you. now that we know, how do we stop it? a buddy of mine that brought me into melee, mains falco. it was pretty intimidating to try main link then. but I studied his moves, the effects my attacks have on him and learn to capitalize on his mistakes or misreads. I've learned to DI towards platforms and tech away to avoid too many pillars, dont consistently tech the same way and stay above him to avoid taking bullets to the face. now what others match-ups to people have tips with

 

[dablackpacman]

ps, i think even skler will agree with me, fox IS links hardest match-up, not sheik. i've never had a sheik 0-death me before with an impervious kill. and sheik is "get combo'd" friendly. i've taken sheik to death with bair,utilt, jab, grab attaks until i set her up for death. fox's speed and size, u have to tech chase him to get the added dmg on him. u can 0-death either character, but it takes alot better reads on fox whereas sheik can be combo'd just like ganon

 

[Scar]

germ beat me with falco

also rofl @ skler i've lived in cali for the past like 6 months

 

[Blazing]

i've never had a sheik 0-death me before

Play drephen and then try and say that again xD

 

[huMps]

**** falco GOD **** IT!!!!!
He'll get you with Link one of these days. BTW your combo vids are the ****

 

[cjugs]

germ beat me with falco

also rofl @ skler i've lived in cali for the past like 6 months

that's what i was thinking. Why are all the best smashers moving around all the time?

 

[Zodiac]

I've got an idea, I have a tournament coming up on the 19'th, all of us, I mean ALL of us who have tournaments coming up should go 100% link and come back to tell the tale. talk about what match ups we ran into, what we did to win them, or what we could have done to win them.

Doing this we could get better as the link main community by sharing info from tourney's all over, this really hasnt been done for a while. I think if we give this method a try (with a little more fine tuning) it could help all of us. Im studying links match ups and combo's at present to get ready for the upcoming tournament.

 

[cjugs]

I have a tourny the 26th.
not a bad idea one of us should make a link general discussion thread though.

 

[dablackpacman]

Play drephen and then try and say that again xD

i've seen m2k 0-death drephen. of course on a higher skill level it could happen. i've never had an IC main 0-death but me i'm sure wobbles could. a top-pro im sure can 0-death just about any1

yea i'm goin to a tourney on the 19th too and thats a good idea, talking about the match-ups. right now my most challenging issue is a self-proclaimed #1 mario in michigan i've been having a little trouble with and need some advice. for the most part, i usually win, but mario's inside game is sicker then falco's vs link. i've been much learn to simply beat him in the projectile war from a distance, use the nair to get inside, but its a matter of controlling the space. mario has a strong inside game, but lacks range over link and thats how i tend to dominate the match-up. however tho, any time i slip up, he'll shield grab me and that can rack up a good 40-80%. nairs to edge guard, dthrow-uair 90% is usually his death, keep him sword distance away and nair his fire balls, bair-bair-uair-utilt combos, bair-nairs lead to nice gimps at the edge. any other advice vs mario anyone?

 

[Skler]

germ beat me with falco

also rofl @ skler i've lived in cali for the past like 6 months

I haven't been to any tournies in a while (except the new mass madness).

****it Scar, why'd you heave to leave the east coast?

 

[Stos]

I've got an idea, I have a tournament coming up on the 19'th, all of us, I mean ALL of us who have tournaments coming up should go 100% link and come back to tell the tale. talk about what match ups we ran into, what we did to win them, or what we could have done to win them.

Doing this we could get better as the link main community by sharing info from tourney's all over, this really hasnt been done for a while. I think if we give this method a try (with a little more fine tuning) it could help all of us. Im studying links match ups and combo's at present to get ready for the upcoming tournament.

Yeah, there's a potential tourney I might attend June 12 and 19.

Hopefully I get some recording down.

 

[dablackpacman]

what are the best ways to handle sheik? obviously u dont wanna spend much time being parallel with her for her dash attack and needles. im thinkn that a smaller stage such as FoD can help from being CG'd, but at the same time thatll constantly put her in ur face and leave u projectile-less. not to mention she has incredible edge guarding skills. so perhaps stayin on a bigger stage such poke stadium or battlefield can increase projectile usage and help out space her. except for her grab, i think link can out space her with jus about every attack. and at low percent, shes just as vulnerable to bairs and utilts as gannon. and shes easier to edgeguard on those 2 (as long as u dont get fair'd of the stage so dont edgehog if shes close).

wats everyone elses thoughts?

 

[Skler]

Sheik needs to be taken to FoD or RC and played against by being CC happy and jabbing/dsmashing all her approaches. Unfortunately she doesn't really need to approach, but you can annoy her by hopping around her needles and throwing your projectiles.

If you goad her into approaching you can win, but a grab usually means a stock (or at least a high damage combo they can follow relatively easily onto platforms) so you have to be very careful. Her edge guard against you is also stupidly good as she can cover every option except hookshooting low with one move.

 

[cjugs]

If you want to win tournys you might consider taking up a space animal secondary because sheik is stupid. idk about anyone else but tha thought of losing to a sheik who does nothing but chaingrab makes me want to puke. I don't like RC against sheik because she will usually guess your DI right to kill you out of a grab i like fod and dream land and yoshi story against her if you aren't already you should be short hopping backwards and throw a rang you can do this oos or whenever you need to build space between you and her.

 

[dablackpacman]

so outspace her and deploy an onslaught of rangs n bombs to rack up minor dmg. I think if u can jab grab, a dthrow dair shuld be able to kill her at a low percent at yoshi's. a secondary space animal i dont agree with, simply cuz if u wanna have a spacey, u might as well main them. since falco n sheik have been 2 of my hardest matches so ive been seconding ICs, but like i said, i wanna go straight link for the tournament.

wats the jiggz match-up like? ive only played two decent jiggz mains, one of which was sliq who stuck it to me, but that was just friendlies and was like 6 months ago. the last jiggz main i did extremely well against. i kno its best to limit ur up-bs, grabs and dsmashes. and stay aways from he utilt. for the most part i usually bomb n rang her to high percents in which case i come in with nairs, fairs and dairs to finish her

 

[cjugs]

Then main a spacie and secondary link. Germ mains link with falco second and he has a better link then all of us.
Never upb never grab try not to air dsmash fsmash upsmash throw stuff and shl the fresh up air kills her at low percents. if you play sliq in friendlies he has a god link so ask him to ditto you.sheik vs ic is still a good matchup for her.

 

[cjugs]

Adding on.
You are only allowed to upb grab oos if they do a smash attack into your shield because if you miss a grab or upb you will get rested dthrow dair works watch germ vs puff he beat magus's puff i think and he dthrew dair for the kill. i've never dthrow dair sheik before idk if that works i like yoshis because i think i'm good there but if you can take control of the tiny stage you may win. i have more success at ys then any other stage.

 

[dablackpacman]

i beat sliq a couple times in link dittos, but he beat me more, but like i said, that was a long time ago. the whole idea, is not to play with spacies and high tiers. what fun is there, ur just goin down a path that has alrdy been walked by multiple ppl. their meta game is just about complete (we all know falco's is) and now its time to create links. soon as i can tho, i wanna link ditto sliq again and play his puff

 

[Zodiac]

i beat sliq a couple times in link dittos, but he beat me more, but like i said, that was a long time ago. the whole idea, is not to play with spacies and high tiers. what fun is there, ur just goin down a path that has alrdy been walked by multiple ppl. their meta game is just about complete (we all know falco's is) and now its time to create links. soon as i can tho, i wanna link ditto sliq again and play his puff

Speaking of puff, I feel that link is actually a pretty good match for puff, his mobility and projectile game can be worked correctly to keep jigg's out of the air for the most part. and on the ground where's she far less effective.

 

[cjugs]

I nominate Zodiac to start a link general discussion Question and Answer thread.
Spacies are fun to play as if you know how, you don't know how they can get technical but i don't think so. alot of people have gone down the road of playing melee but you want to follow in their footsteps.

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

hmm I like link nad he offen times gives me ideas. like grab bomb running SH at them throw it behind you and turn oaround f-smash spaceing well. shFFL at them like you going to do an attack the double jump before you attack and Ff whatever you do or as pichu up-B down or around them to break down their wall they created. small little ideas but I think the double jump idea mayy be useful, I rarly share my ideas.

 

[Nø Ca$h]

have u SEEN ultimascouts link? its decent LOL

 

[INSANE CARZY GUY]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z0A044yRZTw saw that up-B edge gaurd mindgame to good. I think mindgames are better than jigglypuff puffs rest and everyone can do them. Really the onlt reason you should ever win is in frame by frame perfect play and if it's impssoble for you to ever touch them like fox vs kirby if fox chooses to win he wins. so that said puff can't be broken she can't keep up with fox on every stage.

 

[Stos]

Really old: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rzte5-mh2Xo

One of my favourite matches: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4DBx9SUDiq8

Edit: Thought I'd share this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PrxVXHXHVcc

 

[cjugs]

I love that match it may be my favorite of all time if not for aniki vs ken on DL Aniki reminds us if marth plays dirty with his fthrow chaingrab we can di hard away and up b aww what a beaaautiful sight.
idk if anyone actually counts but that combo Germ does on DSF is what like38 %? maybe not but i thought with the bombs and up b that's what i got then again it's after midnight and i'm tired and horrible at math.

 

[dablackpacman]

i deff agree zodiac, i think link is fine against puff, for that reason exactly. doesnt matter if she's spamming bairs like crazy, link doesnt have to approach cuz of his projectiles. as good as peach is against falco, falcon and fox, i think link is jus as good against peach and jiggz. and with so many ppl switching to jiggz and peach now, the playing field for link is increasing

im teaming up with a mario for the up coming tournament, for the exact reason that mario is pretty **** efficient against fox, falco, sheik and falcon. ill try and put as many of our single and double matches on here as i can. so with him able to handle the animals and shieks, link taking out peaches, jiggz and swoards, it shuld be an all around balanced level. and counterpick stages for uneven matchups. im thinkn any time theres 2 space animals, falcon sheik or watever anti-link team, BF, cruise or floats i think can always lean more in links favor

 

[IYM!]

link is geting better

and have discovered new moves and tactics with him
and perfected the use of bomb sliding

 

[Zodiac]

link is geting better

and have discovered new moves and tactics with him
and perfected the use of bomb sliding

Speaking of new tactics theres a lot of untapped potential in the area of shield pressure with link. for instance, Bair turn round jab , and its not the kind of shield pressure where one strategy fits all like fox or falco. theres a specific way to pressure each characters shield. usually, bair, nair and fair are all good tools to use along with the jab.

 

[dablackpacman]

Speaking of new tactics theres a lot of untapped potential in the area of shield pressure with link. for instance, Bair turn round jab , and its not the kind of shield pressure where one strategy fits all like fox or falco. theres a specific way to pressure each characters shield. usually, bair, nair and fair are all good tools to use along with the jab.

with the shield pressure, i've been goin a lot with fair-jab-jab-dtilt-jab-jab-nair-dsmash. but ive seriously been having trouble landing the bair turn around jab without getting shield grabbed or CC attacked

 

[cjugs]

i prefer bair dj fair dsmash, or fair jab jab and just don't hit with the third jab seems to work for me hdl does it against armada if you need vids.

 

[dablackpacman]

i got mine from hdl vs ss. u never wanna hit with the 3rd jab of course and usually if u get 3 to 4 hits in (depending how long they been holding their shield) u can shield stab them wit dsmash or dtilt

 

[Stos]

i've been goin a lot with fair-jab-jab-dtilt-jab-jab-nair-dsmash.

In my opinion, down-tilt shouldn't partake in Link's shield-pressure game for various reasons. First, the start-up and after-lag are longer than the initial hit-box itself. Opponents can easily punish before or after the hit-box for down-tilt takes place. For example, Captain Falcon can SHFFL a knee, Sheik can SHFFL a Nair, Fair or even a Wavedash-OOS grab, Marth can easily grab and Link can punish with Spin-Attack, if you think about it every character in the game can punish Link during his down-tilt lag-frames. Further more, the range of Link's down-tilt weakens the foundation of Link's preferred mid-range game. The shortage of range offers Link's percentage/stock for the opponent to take advantage. For example, Marth's crucial Forward-smash/Grab can shift the games momentum into your opponents hands, Link's double-slash forward-smash/grab can rack up damage, Falco's forward-smash can deduct stocks and Sheik's grab can result a loss of a stock. In other words, Link's down-tilt must only be used wisely when applying pressure to your opponent's shield or the result may be devastating. Using down-tilt to the opponent's shield as a poke can force two easy-predictable reaction to such situation. The first, a roll towards the stage which can be punished by any of Link's close-range moves. Another, predictable reaction can be a full-jump over Link which can be punished by Link's Up-air. Moreover, Link's down-tilt can be more effective as percentage-sacrifice for another move which can potentially rack-up damage or take the opponents stock. For example, a Crouch-cancelled punish to Link's down-tilt can lead into a grab, down-smash (which can start a juggle) or one of Link's finisher moves. All in all, Link's down-tilt should be used more of a bait instead of a shield-pressure ingredient.

The examples I used may be exaggerated and doesn't cover all of the opponents option to punish Link's down-tilt but that's used to cut the general flaws of Link's down-tilt. Also, I'm not trying to say Link's down-tilt is a bad move-In fact, I use this move a lot but not in shield-pressuring situations-I'm just illuminating why Link's down-tilt shouldn't be used as a shield-pressuring tool but more of a situation-shifting tool.

Pros and Cons of Link's Down-tilt

Pros:
- Can forced predictable reaction of the opponent which can be taken advantage of.
- Can be used as bait into moment-shifting situation. In other words, a mind-game.

Cons:
- Heavy lag before and after the initial hit-box frames are long.
- Shortage of range the move possesses brings opponents to Link's unsecured close-space.​

 

[_KuyaSombreo_]

Stos I thought you quit smash