Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.

[Lawz.]

You don't even need to outright KO Link. All you have to do is tap him lightly with a F-air, and this will almost always kill his recovery and result in an edgehog.

G&W's F-air is the reason why he destroys Link so quickly. There is very little Link can do to avoid it, and taking any light hit offstage gets him gimped. And then F-air out of shield also pretty severely punishes a lot of what Link can do. That one move is basically the anti-Link recovery move for all intents and purposes really.

As for projectiles...G&W just hits through them. Or catching/U-airing bombs works too. Link's Z-air is also only safe on the retreat, which is something that G&W aims for in this matchup.

And no really, Link's KO power is pathetic. One of the worst in the game before someone like Sonic's. I'm not really exaggerating. The only KO moves that Link has that have any respectable knockback are D-air, and the 2nd hit of F-smash (not to mention fully charged Up-B). All those options are very difficult to land on a good G&W, and then you're only barely going to manage to KO him before 140% with anything else that manages to be fresh (difficult task considering that unfortunately, some of his best KO moves are essential damage dealers).

Basically against a G&W that doesn't screw up, he's the one that is outlasting Link.

you make me laugh everytime you post. please stop posting in a match up you know nothing about. Link has far more KO power than you give him credit for. Link has many more moves than just dair and fsmash. Please for the love of god just stop.

 

[Anonano]

This is a pointless argument Lawz. Don't respond to it anymore and maybe it will go away. I mean, I've watched its videos and was appalled at its lack of competence vs Ganondorf, let alone any other character.

Red Ryu, please get some G&W mains like Valdens, Blackanese, or UTD Zac over here so we can begin discussion of the matchup.

 

[Camalange]

If it isn't a good old friend of mine, A2ZOMG. Would you like another schooling in your terrible pathetic theorycraft and lack of character knowledge?

Link also is not very good at KOing, making this matchup even more of a drag for Link. His low KO power in general makes it very difficult to reliably KO G&W when G&W is able to Bucket Brake most of his stuff to potentially survive to 180% most stocks.

You might be the most affective troll I have ever seen in my life.

You know nothing. Link is only considered a bad character because of his awful recovery and slow start up/ending lag on most of his attacks, it's not because he can't kill you moron. Link's advantages in matchups are being very heavy to live to high percents along with his absurd momentum canceling (besides when he gets gimped, perfect DI can help to prevent this, but we all know Link will get gimped), having good range on the ground, and being able to kill. I'm almost convinced you've never seen a Link play or even use the character in a friendly to think this character can't kill. Both his Fsmash and Dsmash can kill, his Dsmash gets set up with a Jab>Jab>Dsmash, and have you seen his Dair? Dair destroys all projectiles, has a lingering hitbox, very similar to a sex kick, except no matter when it hits its just as strong.

Link's can land Dairs by using Bomb>Dair in the air, or when edgeguarding. It's very effective.

So anyhow you have projectiles, Z-air, and stuff. None of them really help combo into any KO moves, but they are nice at maintaining some breathing room.

Link has medicore combos from his zair yes. So I agree with this for the most part. However, they exist.

Boomerangs can set up into jab locks very easily, they do happen, rarely but they do. Bombs can lead into you eating a Dair as mentioned before.

As for projectiles...G&W just hits through them. Or catching/U-airing bombs works too. Link's Z-air is also only safe on the retreat, which is something that G&W aims for in this matchup.

I'll give you your points on GaW being superior offstage and having a pretty easy time wrecking the air and gimping, that is without a doubt undebatable. However, Link's camp game is meant to keep you away, duh, GaW aerials won't be able to fend off a series of bombs, arrows, zair, and boomerangs all in succession every time.

Not only that, Link can challenge GaW on the ground. He has good range on his attacks, he's just at a disadvantage because he's slow. You're objective is to get him in the air, and get him offstage asap and gimp. You don't want to try and keep him on the ground or surpass his Dair.

Nice try, all those moves Link has have below average KO power.Link is actually one of the weakest characters in the game overall. There is almost never a time when he is able to KO his opponent before 130% without landing the incredibly situational D-air or 2nd hit of F-smash. His Smashes are all better damage dealers than they are KO moves. As for D-air, good luck landing that on a G&W at KO percents when he can U-air/Up-B through it

By the way I already told you, G&W's Up-B and U-air are the reason you shouldn't D-air. G&W's Up-tilt also probably beats it. Another thing, his D-air doesn't even kill that early when you factor DI, the fact it weakens the longer it is out...

gtfo

you honestly are quite easily the most foolish person I have ever seen post on these boards. I thought you were just ignorant with Sonic, but no. You also know nothing about anything. Why are you here?

If you're honestly trying to debate that Link's Dair is nothing more than **** and that he can't kill, you should an hero.

And no really, Link's KO power is pathetic. One of the worst in the game before someone like Sonic's. I'm not really exaggerating. The only KO moves that Link has that have any respectable knockback are D-air, and the 2nd hit of F-smash (not to mention fully charged Up-B). All those options are very difficult to land on a good G&W, and then you're only barely going to manage to KO him before 140% with anything else that manages to be fresh (difficult task considering that unfortunately, some of his best KO moves are essential damage dealers).

You really are determined to prove that you know absolutley nothing. You are a fool.

Comparing Link's KO power to Sonic's is a joke. Sonic is like the anti-Link. Sonic can recover from anything but can't kill, Link can't recover but can kill easily.


Now honestly, gtfo. Stop spreading your filth around character boards. It's bad enough I had to deal with you in the Mario discussions this week.

 

[A2ZOMG]

This is a pointless argument Lawz. Don't respond to it anymore and maybe it will go away. I mean, I've watched its videos and was appalled at its lack of competence vs Ganondorf, let alone any other character.

Old matches are old. My playstyle has changed drastically over time.

Now put it in this perspective. Why do people say TL sucks at getting kills? Is it because his KO power is low? Funny, In fact it is by far significantly higher than Link's (compare KO percents, TL has a very significant advantage on pretty much anything not named D-air or F-tilt). Obviously it's hard for him to land his best KO moves however. The same is true for Link, except he doesn't even have as good of setups, and ultimately doesn't even KO as early.

Link if anything is a damage dealing character.

Link can't land D-air on a good G&W because G&W has the tools to react to it. Up-B will stop it before Link even gets into position and has invul frames. U-air puts Link in a horrible position making his D-air a liability, and also stops Link's edgeguard attempts.

The only other KO move that Link has that KOs at anything respectable is the 2nd hit of F-smash, which is pretty hard to land on anyone for that matter.

And then everything else he could be using for KOs is also iffy, because usually it's essential for damage dealing.

I was even being generous to Link by leaving G&W's Smashes out of the equation, but Link dies at around 80-90% easily against those.

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

In other news: A2ZOMG is now considered the dumbest person on SWF and Cam is gonna make babies with me.

 

[A2ZOMG]

You can be in denial, but Link's KO power is overall quite low. He basically takes after Roy from Melee, being overly reliant on a single KO move to get kills at respectable percents (D-air), and then failing massively at finding other ways of KOing easily, since either it's A super situational, B better as a damage dealer, or C not even that strong.

 

[Nidtendofreak]

Dang, I thought A2 was only stupid when it came to Ike. (lol Ike only having a 55-45 advantage over Falcon)

Why is anyone taking this guy seriously?

I use G&W as a secondary. Just by looking at both characters it's plainly obvious that it's not something crazy like 65-35 G&W. The projectiles do cause a problem for G&W, you'd be foolish to deny it. Link does have good KOing moves, particularly against a light weighter like G&W. Dsmash anyone, particularly when set up by jab? Ftilt? Even with bucket breaking, it puts G&W in a position to get pop shotted the whole way down by bombs, or gives Link a chance to reset the situation onstage. G&W doesn't like disjointed attacks, and while Link doesn't have as much range on his as say Marth or Ike, it's still disjointed.

If I were you guys Link boards, I'd place the joker on the "ignore" list. You're simply wasting your breath here.

 

[Anonano]

Where do I find the ignore button, my good friend? I've been looking for it since A2ZOMG was born.

EDIT: Camalange, if Lawz hasn't told you already you are my new hero. Steak and beer ftw.
EDIT2: Afro you told me on my YT page that you were going to make babies with me! >:O

 

[Camalange]

I was even being generous to Link by leaving G&W's Smashes out of the equation, but Link dies at around 80-90% easily against those.

I already covered everything else that was in this post, so please...stop giving me more ammo with this bull**** comment.

In other news: A2ZOMG is now considered the dumbest person on SWF and Cam is gonna make babies with me.

<3 AfroTwist Blueberry/Shintwist/ShadowPie

Dang, I thought A2 was only stupid when it came to Ike. (lol Ike only having a 55-45 advantage over Falcon)

Gee, A2 sure has a lot of friends!

You can be in denial, but Link's KO power is overall quite low. He basically takes after Roy from Melee, being overly reliant on a single KO move to get kills at respectable percents (D-air), and then failing massively at finding other ways of KOing easily, since either it's A super situational, B better as a damage dealer, or C not even that strong.

Please, gtfo

If I were you guys Link boards, I'd place the joker on the "ignore" list. You're simply wasting your breath here.

qft

my work here is done. Please, if any other GaWs who have a brain would like to contribute, please do :D I'd like to hear more on this MU since I do believe as well it's no worse than 60:40.

 

[Linkwearsgreen]

My eyes are bleeding from all the fail in A2ZOMG's posts.

In other news, Mario mains don't belong on the Link boards.

lolkirinblaze

 

[GreyClover]

Gawd A2ZOMG you're going to make me come here everytime you **** a discussion.

I was even being generous to Link by leaving G&W's Smashes out of the equation, but Link dies at around 80-90% easily against those.

*Face Palms*

Are you talking about Jigglypuff or something?

 

[AfroTwist ShadowPie]

EDIT2: Afro you told me on my YT page that you were going to make babies with me! >:O

Imma make lotsa babies.

@SillyA2ZOMG: Im gonna remind you one more time.

Link's Dair kills GnW at 71% on FD.
Dair kills GnW at 71%
71%

 

[Camalange]

A1 > A2

 

[Dotcom]

In other news: A2ZOMG is now considered the dumbest person on SWF and Cam is gonna make babies with me.

I only agree with half of this because of the fact, that Cam's babies are mine.

 

[Lawz.]

I only agree with half of this because of the fact, that Cam's babies are mine.

Dotcom you are absolutely awesome.

 

[Camalange]

I only agree with half of this because of the fact, that Cam's babies are mine.

LOLOLOLOLOL how'd you find your way here?

<3

 

[Dotcom]

I've no idea...
HAIGAIZ!

 

[Vex Kasrani]

I only agree with half of this because of the fact, that Cam's babies are mine.

YOU MAD?

This is my Bowser btw.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm gone for eight hours and **** breaks out.

Why do I miss all of the action?

~

P.S. we need more G&W mains to talk with us.

 

[Dotcom]

YOU MAD?

This is my Bowser btw.

your grandmom's mad. i went in RAW! jk jk jk.

 

[-Mars-]

Links dair doesn't kill G&W til about 95 on the middle of FD LMAO. Know what you're talking about before you try to make someone sound like a fool.

 

[Camalange]

this thread just won multiple times.



marsulas, please don't make yourself sound like a fool trying to defend A2 when his logic is clearly flawed beyond all help. It's a possibility that the Link board numbers are off a little, but the point of the matter is that Link will be killing far before...

His low KO power in general makes it very difficult to reliably KO G&W when G&W is able to Bucket Brake most of his stuff to potentially survive to 180% most stocks.

potentially survive to 180% most stocks.

survive to 180%

180%

 

[-Mars-]

STFU. I don't even agree with A2 and I already told him that. You cant sit here and go "DAIR KILLS G&W at 71%" thats not even close and it's certainly not off by "a little". The fact that that statement was quoted and pointed out again by another Link main when that staement is so blatantly false makes the whole thing even more comical. Both A2 and the Link mains exaggerated greatly.

 

[Camalange]

180%

k, i'm done.

 

[M4ge]

^ This.
10 180%s

 

[Lawz.]

STFU. I don't even agree with A2 and I already told him that. You cant sit here and go "DAIR KILLS G&W at 71%" thats not even close and it's certainly not off by "a little". The fact that that statement was quoted and pointed out again by another Link main when that staement is so blatantly false makes the whole thing even more comical. Both A2 and the Link mains exaggerated greatly.

I see no reason to flip your *** off anyway. The point he's making is that your making a big deal off one detail, while A2 blatantly put paragraphs of wrong info. The point is that G&W dies a lot easier than A2 stated. Calm the hell down.

 

[Dotcom]

STFU. I don't even agree with A2 and I already told him that. You cant sit here and go "DAIR KILLS G&W at 71%" thats not even close and it's certainly not off by "a little". The fact that that statement was quoted and pointed out again by another Link main when that staement is so blatantly false makes the whole thing even more comical. Both A2 and the Link mains exaggerated greatly.

If anything was overly exaggerated it's your boy A2'sintelligent lacking post, 180 to 95, is FAR different than 70 ANYTHING to 95. Bucket braking isn't even that reliable, because it requires a nice amount of space anyway, so on a small stage bucket braking Dair might not even be possible. People were trying to convey to your "friend" that Link has FAR more kill potential than he would give him credit for.

You sort of came in here, and made yourself look like an *** doing what can be viewed asdamage control. There's no need to be so hostile guy relax.

 

[Browny]

wait... does the dair bring G&W to 95% when it KO'd? (implying that G&W is at about 75% when the dair hits) idk how much dair does. because 95 does seem a bit high to me, id normally go for a dair KO on middleweights at 100% (bringing them to 120%)

 

[A2ZOMG]

Ok, Mars has actual numbers.

Link's F-smash first hit kills G&W at 108% with no DI.

That's honestly terrible. And that's probably Link's best KO move in this matchup.

I exaggerated a bit, but G&W should be consistently surviving to 140% each stock, much longer if he is very careful around Link's KO moves.

Link on the other hand gets comboed to like 60%, F-aired offstage, and at least half the time gets F-air gimped. And if G&W lands a Smash (usually it will be charged slightly, since that's his best setup for punishing landings), it KOs from around 80-90%.

Point remains that G&W actually survives significantly longer than Link. Link still can't do crap when G&W F-air edgeguards, gets KOed pretty darn early by G&W's Smashes like anyone else, and he fails at KO power like I've been saying with his F-smash that only barely manages to KO before 110% when fresh.

 

[Camalange]

Ok, Mars has actual numbers.

Link's F-smash first hit kills G&W at 108% with no DI.

That's honestly terrible. And that's probably Link's best KO move in this matchup.

You're still only including the first hit. You act Link's are just like "Aight...first hit's over...now wtf am I gonn' do?" The first hit has enough hitstun for the second hit to connect. Add that to your numbers please, you'll find it kills far earlier.

You also insist on ignoring the power and versatility of Link's dair.

And if G&W lands a Smash (usually it will be charged slightly, since that's his best setup for punishing landings), it KOs from around 80-90%

You're still horribly wrong. Link can live to insane percents if he's smart.

With proper DI and momentum canceling, Link can live to very high percents. From all of the Link's I've seen, ArkiveZero's DI/MC has impressed me the most. I'd like to direct you to a match.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sBXzVrgZBDs

^watch the whole thing. This is what Link is capable of if he does not get gimped.

Another example, however without video proof, numerous people watched Lawz survive a fresh Ike Utilt at 150% on Halberd vs Inui in tournament. G@ME

Why do you continue to try and back up all of your false claims? After awhile, I thought maybe my post was a bit too harsh, but now that you still insist on trying, please stop posting. You honestly have no idea what Link is capable of in this MU and you're only digging yourself a deeper grave.

Point remains that G&W actually survives significantly longer than Link.

Not really. Nice try.

Link still can't do crap when G&W F-air edgeguards

This is probably the only semi-logical thing you've said so far.

gets KOed pretty darn early by G&W's Smashes like anyone else, and he fails at KO power like I've been saying with his F-smash that only barely manages to KO before 110% when fresh.

Just absolutley no.



Can someone else please contribute? I'd like to see legitimate opinions on this. We know it's GaW's advantage, but it's not a horrid MU.

 

[-Mars-]

I see no reason to flip your *** off anyway. The point he's making is that your making a big deal off one detail, while A2 blatantly put paragraphs of wrong info. The point is that G&W dies a lot easier than A2 stated. Calm the hell down.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA. I am very calm buddy. Just don't come with wrong information when your trying to correct someone and you'll be ok.

If anything was overly exaggerated it's your boy A2'sintelligent lacking post, 180 to 95, is FAR different than 70 ANYTHING to 95. Bucket braking isn't even that reliable, because it requires a nice amount of space anyway, so on a small stage bucket braking Dair might not even be possible. People were trying to convey to your "friend" that Link has FAR more kill potential than he would give him credit for.

You sort of came in here, and made yourself look like an *** doing what can be viewed asdamage control. There's no need to be so hostile guy relax.

I wouldn't say FAR more kill potential. No one is being hostile little guy just making sure that people know their stuff or else they shouldn't be posting in matchup threads.
I already said that both sides exaggerated.

wait... does the dair bring G&W to 95% when it KO'd? (implying that G&W is at about 75% when the dair hits) idk how much dair does. because 95 does seem a bit high to me, id normally go for a dair KO on middleweights at 100% (bringing them to 120%)

It kills him at 95% bringing him to about 111%.....add about 10% on to that to account for DI obviously.

 

[-Mars-]

You're still only including the first hit. You act Link's are just like "Aight...first hit's over...now wtf am I gonn' do?" The first hit has enough hitstun for the second hit to connect. Add that to your numbers please, you'll find it kills far earlier.

Why do you continue to try and back up all of your false claims? After awhile, I thought maybe my post was a bit too harsh, but now that you still insist on trying, please stop posting. You honestly have no idea what Link is capable of in this MU and you're only digging yourself a deeper grave.

Wow most 08'ers really are just stupid. Please i'm dying to hear how you are connecting both hits of Links fsmash at 110% ahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Edit: double post because Camalange thinks he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Camalange]

Wow most 08'ers really are just stupid. Please i'm dying to hear how you are connecting both hits of Links fsmash at 110% ahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Edit: double post because Camalange thinks he knows what he's talking about.

LOL, I never said both are going to hit at 110. Did I say 110 specifically?

I mostly wanted him to take into account the KO power the second slash has. I've seen numerous times where Link players intentionally miss the first hit and go for the second because it throws people like you offguard who know nothing.


Also, I can't help but laugh that you would think YOU know more than I do about Link. I attend tournaments reguarly with Lawz and I've watched him go even with some of the best players in our region and out, with ONLY LINK. Oh, so because I've joined in 08 means that I can't understand nearly as much as you about Link in Brawl, because the year 07 was so influential to Brawl Link's metagame.

I am absolutley astounded by the amount of wisdom in this thread. Baffled.

I don't even know why I'm still here. I'm beating down multiple dead horses now, it's just cruel. If the Link mains would like to continue, go ahead.

 

[-Mars-]

No you were implying that the second hit of fsmash has enough hitstun to coincide with the first hit at KO percentages. LMAO.

 

[Camalange]

No you were implying that the second hit of fsmash has enough hitstun to coincide with the first hit at KO percentages. LMAO.

That may have been poor sentence structure on my part, so for that I apologize. After rereading, it does seem to imply that, so I'm sorry.


However, now you're just nitpicking. You were the one who had to point out that 07 vs 08 had so much influence on Link's metagame, so...

who still has the better argument? That one mix up doesn't ruin the validity of the rest of post(s).

You honestly can't tell me you think Link has bad KO power, since you already said you don't agree with A2. You only posted to clear up the issue with Dair percents, and now that this is taken care of, I believe our business is done, no?

I keep forgetting the SWF Link boards are dead. Perhaps thats the reason why we're bickering over such trivial things since no one else can take this thread into the right direction.

A2, you're still a fool though.

Dotcom and Vex, keep stayin' cool xD

 

[-Mars-]

Since your being so nice I won't expand into the 08 comment which has nothing to do with Link's metagame(where did I say anything about his metagame exactly?). But yea I don't think Link has bad KO power.....I play the guy.

I just don't like it when people try to rip into someone when they themselves are saying false things and then to top it off someone comes in and backs them up on that statement lol.

But yea this forum is dead and this matchup is 6-4 G&W's advantage.

 

[Camalange]

Since your being so nice I won't expand into the 08 comment which has nothing to do with Link's metagame(where did I say anything about his metagame exactly?)

Wow most 08'ers really are just stupid. -yadayada-

Edit: double post because Camalange thinks he knows what he's talking about.

T_T

I took that as a "Camalange doesn't know more than me about Link because my join date is 07 and his is 08" lol

but like I said, let's just put that behind us, it's in the past. We both had rightful reasons to be angry.

Everyone knows by this point it's 6:4 GaW, and that GaWs main advantages are his ability to easily juggle Link in the air and set up more gimp opportunities.

Link doesn't fare badly vs his ground game, and both will die from smashes in the higher percentile >_> lol

 

[M4ge]

I really hate the amount of trolls on this site. That's one of the reasons I just don't argue with anyone. -_-

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

Wow most 08'ers really are just stupid.Please i'm dying to hear how you are connecting both hits of Links fsmash at 110% ahahahahahaahahahahahahaha

Edit: double post because Camalange thinks he knows what he's talking about.

This is what we call "baiting", which starts flame wars, which are bad.

That may have been poor sentence structure on my part, so for that I apologize. After rereading, it does seem to imply that, so I'm sorry.


However, now you're just nitpicking. You were the one who had to point out that 07 vs 08 had so much influence on Link's metagame, so...

who still has the better argument? That one mix up doesn't ruin the validity of the rest of post(s).

You honestly can't tell me you think Link has bad KO power, since you already said you don't agree with A2. You only posted to clear up the issue with Dair percents, and now that this is taken care of, I believe our business is done, no?

I keep forgetting the SWF Link boards are dead. Perhaps thats the reason why we're bickering over such trivial things since no one else can take this thread into the right direction.

A2, you're still a fool though.

Dotcom and Vex, keep stayin' cool xD

This makes me wish all of the Links didn't go to AiB. :/

~

Anyways the match-up itself. Link has the ability to fend off G&W with projectiles and Z-air, G&W will have to work around them to be able to get inside of Link. Once he does Link will most likely stay grounded. In the air Link gets ***** pretty badly, G&W can wreck him with Bair, Nair, Fair, and maybe a bit of Uair, G&W should still keep a look out for Link's Dair.

If Link is off stage, G&W just has to tap him with Fair to knock him too far away to recover at higher %. At the same time this is what may be G&W will be using to get a lot of kills. Link can out live G&W if he doesn't get gimped. Not only that, Link can kill him earlier with at least five different moves, Fsmash, Dsmash, Dair, Ftilt, Usmash. Link should stay grounded as long as possible to avoid falling to G&W's air games.

Ultimately, it's the fact that Link lacks the speed on his attacks on start-up and end coupled with G&W's ability to combo him in the air and off stage that make this not in Link's favor.

If your smart you'll stay away from Rainbow Cruise, Japes, and Frigate. Stick to Norfair and Brinstar.

60:40 G&W

~

Correct me if I'm wrong, but does Link's Usmash beat key? I've had some wierd occurances where I think I've beaten it.

 

[Dotcom]

No one is being hostile little guy just making sure that..

being hostile little guy

Little guy

someone please point thisman in the right direction.