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Link's Match-up Thread: Ryu would like an answer to a question.

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#HBC | Red Ryu

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I've heard from other Pikachu mains they hate people with swords, but I'm guessing this only applies to Marth and MK since Link lacks the speed they have.
 

Rinku リンク

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Most people probably already know but you can SDI out of Pikachu's D- Smash. It helps IMO .
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I can't do it consistently, I've been working on it for fighting other characters with multi hit attacks, but so far no luck.

I can say for a fact you can SDI out of his Dsmash, which from what I know, Pikachu's love that move.
 

ndayday

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What?

How about this? What approaches should you use?
 

Rinku リンク

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Well your gonna have to play a little offensive since Pikachu can spam his projectile faster than you can spam yours.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Not really, We can arc ours over his, clash with his, and our bombs just erase them.

We can camp Pikachu, but he can still get in on us. He's light so early kills can happen for us.

For stages I like Norfair and battlefield. Other than that I can't think of much else to say.
 

Rinku リンク

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Platforms are helpful ^^. Although you don't want to be above Pikachu when you're on one obviously.
 

hambread

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on battlefield the jolt sometimes bounce under the platform abit as well. something to watch out for. its not that big of a deal but it can cost you a stock at higher %
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Well, I think we're just about done with Pikachu.

I want to hit Link's hardest match-ups first, since I think it's better to work on who Link truly sucks against rather than someone he goes even/advantage.

Your pick,

RoB, Kirby, Ice Climbers, Meta Knight, Captain Falcon
 

ndayday

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Which one will get us the most discussion?

I'd say MK.
 

Rinku リンク

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Well, I think we're just about done with Pikachu.

I want to hit Link's hardest match-ups first, since I think it's better to work on who Link truly sucks against rather than someone he goes even/advantage.

Your pick,

RoB, Kirby, Ice Climbers, Meta Knight, Captain Falcon
MK most definetly but Robs a difficult matchup too.
 

ndayday

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Good idea, but what Link mains? :( Meh, I'll try anyway.
 

ndayday

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I went to the Zelda thread, and the AiB Links already raided it, haha. Oh well, they'll get better advice from them then us.

By the way, add Ike to the done characters, the last matchup thread (recent) finished him and got some good discussion going:

Tektite said:
Powerman Ike [60:40 In Ike's Favor]



Advanced Techniques To Know:

Zair with bomb

Craq walking

Gale guarding

Zair edgeguarding

Phantom Boomerang

Bombslides

Bombslides into Fsmash


How do I spam properly?

Projectiles are key in this match-up. As you know Ike has short range attacks *note that his Fair is about the range as Link's Zair* and no projectiles so camping is best. For Ike, spamming defensively as in retreating projectiles are good. First off it's best to start with Zair with bomb tech, so basically you wanna short back hop Zair Ike then throw bomb. Do not spam approaching ethier use more farther range projectiles or wait for your enemy. This will kill Ike's gameplay. Phantom bommerang works well when your on the ledge, it spaces Ike fast and surprising. He won't be able to approach if you spam correctly which means you can't get touch. Another spam game is to space your enemy. Bombslides to Fsmash is good to maintain your space, the more space you got the more frustrating it is for Ike to hit you.

How do I edgeguard Ike properly?

Well you know that Ike has two recover moves, his Aether and his Quick Draw. The quick draw recovers horizontaly. For quick draw Gale Guarding is best to use. Now if you miss the Gale Guard you still can jump right in front of it to stop the move completely. The Aether is pretty tricky than Ike's other recover. It pretty much goes only vertically so Zair edgeguarding would be your favorble option. Just make sure you get the timing right *note that Aether can spike if you miss*.

How do I damage and kill Ike?

To damage Ike you have to do a little combination of projectiles and sword attacks. Craq walking works effectively to do a quick attack on Ike. Though the best thing to do would be to launch Ike into the air. Now you know that in air Ike can only defend by spot-on dodging or down B. Spot-on dodge can be pretty useless, why? Well because Link's Fair and Bair is a two hit move. Spot-on dodging's invinciblilty frames last shorter than the Fair or Bair's attack frames. So your sure to get a hit with the 2nd attack. The down B's counter frames appear only after the first few frames of the moves. So just make sure you don't hit during the counter frames. Now to kill Ike you wanna use attacks that will send him horizontaly. Trying to kill him vertically won't happen untill Ike's at around 130%. The pros of sending him horizontaly is that he cannot be able to get back to the stage and you'll be able to edgeguard him.

How do I not get damaged too much?

You want to be aware of the jab cancels an Ike will do.

So the best way to get out of this combo is too press Zair *note that you have to SDI upwards to this* when Ike's crouching. It will *hopefully* hit Ike before he jabs you. Pretty much that's the only thing you can do to stop his jabs > jabs combo. Grabing can also be a big treat to you. Ike's grab is fast and you pretty much only have one option to avoid some barrages of grabs. Though remember that his grab is short range so space if needed. But some Ikes have their own way of successfully grabing, if your facing one of those people you can hold a bomb as long as you can. If Ike grabs you the bomb can explode breaking up the move. Ike's Fair is his best ranged move and fastest. Be aware of RARs. Shielding is the best way to defend and shield grabing is a good counter to do if you successfully shield. Now preventing it can be hard. As you know Ike's RAR is performed by running, taping the opposite direction and then pressing A. That means this can effect camping and spacing. So just try spamming foward bombs and arrows. If your way far from him then approach him with a bombslide into Fsmash. This will bring you a good amount, the bomb can hit Ike, and the Fsmash can stop him right in his tracks.


Best stages to counterpick Ike?

Counterpick: Pirate Ship

Ban: Norfair, now I can tell your like "WTF Nortfair?!" though it's Link's best stage Ike will just ignore that fact and will **** harder.

Videos:

Ryko (Ike) vs. Killa (Link)
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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They are better Links then we are, all the more reason for me to try and get better. So I can contribute accurately.

And I'll add the Ike one as a export. It would be a waste to not use it after the good discussion we had.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Well since I'm going to be gone for 3-4 days I might as well start discussion of the next character.

We'll do Metaknight.
 

ndayday

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Okay.

So how do we avoid his Tornado? Any moves that go through it?
 

Commander_Beef

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Wow this discussion is super slow with nobody helping out, and I'm just here to check out the matchup versus Meta Knight for my friend -_-...
Matchups are most important to the lower tier characters which you all should know.
I support Link players forever and the Link mains who are trying to increase their metagame, but the Link boards don't show much promise from here regarding matchups.
 

chris the brawler

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**** MK, he can suck my ********
Run away spam, run away spam some more, then you run away and spam even more. Then you jump into his Dsmash/whorenado/upB spam with a Dair *congratz! you've just been 3-stocked*
and thats my input.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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I posted a message in the MK boards, but thus far no luck.

As for the match-up, Link should spam all day. Your bombs will beat his tornado, technically your arrows and boomerang can as well but need to be more precise with those two. Just use the bombs, it's easier to beat the tornado with them.

If you do get caught in the tornado you have a few options,

1) DI up pull a bomb and drop it.
2) DI up and Dair.
3) DIing out and throw any other projectile.

Metaknight can't Dair camp you, our Upsmash, and heck I think our uptilt, will beat it. Link has quite a few attacks that out range Metaknight, main problem is that Metaknight is much faster than Link. So Link needs to space right while keeping out of his range.

Key advice, if you get knocked off the stage, GET BACK ON ASAP!!! Metaknight has the best gimp game of anyone in the cast. We have one of the if not the worst recovery in the game. He will **** us off stage.

Stay on the ground, you'll do much better there than in the air.

Never let him take you to rainbow cruise. Stick to Norfair.

I don't know on a ratio, but I think the 80-20 MK the other thread had was a joke of a ratio. It's not that bad for Link, he can win the match-up.
 

Lemonwater

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Link is severely outclassed by MK in close range: MK is much faster, has more priority, and is more mobile, with less starting and ending lag. The only option I really see is to spam him until he gets to a relatively high percentage and try to kill him with a jab canceled smash without getting gimped and comboed off the stage....he's a real pain to deal with. Z-air, bombs, boomerangs, arrows, jab canceled attacks, and fast-fall neutral aerials are my main weapons against him.

Luckily, Link is good at dealing with opponents coming down from the air, and his u-tilt and u-smash outrange MK's d-air. Most MKs know this and don't try to attack Link from above all the time though...

The main problem is staying on the stage and not getting gimped =(
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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MK doesn't have good air mobility outside of glide and tornado, if he wants to approach fast he's going to run at you from the ground.
 

kirbywizard

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The Deku tribe does not above of the amount of low activity on the link boards!

Meteknight:

You really shouldnt approach, you have a wide assortment of weapons to try to keep him at bay. He can easily rack up damage on you at close range and you should just forget killing or fighting him in the air. Air battle would go to jigglypuff <_<. But your jabs are good, and your bombs and boomerang can help keep you safe. One thing that is great is meteknights low weight and you could kill him at around 90 damage easy. But you wont be finding much room for mistakes, and once your knocked of the stage you can say good bye to one of your stocks. Not sure how good your spinner is on the ground. As long as you play like a coward you should last pretty long. I say you pick final destination and avoid places such as battle field at all cost. Sorry if this isnt very helpful, but I tried using some basic strategies when vsing mteknight with most characters.

Also anyone know of any of links attacks that can get past whornado.
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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The Deku tribe does not above of the amount of low activity on the link boards!

Meteknight:

You really shouldnt approach, you have a wide assortment of weapons to try to keep him at bay. He can easily rack up damage on you at close range and you should just forget killing or fighting him in the air. Air battle would go to jigglypuff <_<. But your jabs are good, and your bombs and boomerang can help keep you safe. One thing that is great is meteknights low weight and you could kill him at around 90 damage easy. But you wont be finding much room for mistakes, and once your knocked of the stage you can say good bye to one of your stocks. Not sure how good your spinner is on the ground. As long as you play like a coward you should last pretty long. I say you pick final destination and avoid places such as battle field at all cost. Sorry if this isnt very helpful, but I tried using some basic strategies when vsing mteknight with most characters.

Also anyone know of any of links attacks that can get past whornado.
I thank you for contributing. I'm still puzzled how after I sent two invitations to the MK boards for the discussion no one has come. :(

Anyways for stages, FD and Norfair as good choices and for the love of Zelda, never go to Rainbow Cruise. Strike it , it should be renamed MK land.

His whornado can be stopped by any of Link's projectiles. I've used Z-air before and stopped him. The problem comes from you have to aim your arrows, boomerang, and Z-air if you want to hit him. Bombs will stop him no matter where hit hit on in the whornado.
 

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I thank you for contributing. I'm still puzzled how after I sent two invitations to the MK boards for the discussion no one has come. :(

Anyways for stages, FD and Norfair as good choices and for the love of Zelda, never go to Rainbow Cruise. Strike it , it should be renamed MK land.

His whornado can be stopped by any of Link's projectiles. I've used Z-air before and stopped him. The problem comes from you have to aim your arrows, boomerang, and Z-air if you want to hit him. Bombs will stop him no matter where hit hit on in the whornado.
OK I have to disagree on Norfair, go with Final destination. Norfair is fantastic for air game something meteknight beats you at and it is planker city. Now I do know character such as olimar can easily camp in nofair, but I feel that link could get easily juggled in this stage.
 

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The lava makes it hard to gimp Link though. And MK dies earlier then normal.
 

ndayday

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And the ledges help Link a ton.
I'd say the stage is a maybe, favoring Link slightly.

How is Final Destination a better choice? Explain please.
 

kirbywizard

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And the ledges help Link a ton.
I'd say the stage is a maybe, favoring Link slightly.

How is Final Destination a better choice? Explain please.
More room to run :laugh:

BUt I still stay Norfair would benefit meteknight much more. I also believe meteknights planking sky rockets up in use in this level. How would you guys think of smashvill while facing meteknight?
 

Chis

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But planking Metaknights get hit by lava. Also, can't you throw bombs at planking Metaknights?
 

#HBC | Red Ryu

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Link is one of those character that planking doesn't work too well on.

Arc an arrow, arc a boomerang, throw a bomb, drop a bomb if they plank.
 

Anonano

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On Norfair, MKs tend to abuse all their aerial moves.
On Norfair, MK dies really early due to dair. The extremely low ceiling and high platforms make Link's dair a nightmare. Not to mention Link can autocancel dairs extremely easy. No need to worry about dair losing power, it still has enough to kick a light character's butt (like MK). And MKs UpB tends to clash with Link's dair. MKs trying to use UpB will get themselves slaughtered. Dair is arguably one of Link's most spammable moves on Norfair, which is a scary thought for just about everyone else.
An MK that is chasing Link around, comboing him in the air is just asking for an autocancelled dair.
The positioning of the platforms heavily favors Link's projectiles due to their arcs and the directions Link can throw/shoot them. Plus Link can camp his way to victory extremely easy due to the minimal horizontal space the stage takes up. He can easily jump from a side platform, FF onto the middle platform and usmash any attempts to prevent him from making his way to the other side to continue spamming.
Usmash is also heavily spammable on this stage; it goes through platforms and SDI, particularly for a fastfalling character like MK, won't be useful for escaping.
An MK that planks against Link on this stage is just stupid. Sure, you have about 3 ledges to grab on any given side, while Link has infinite spamming options to rack up damage as you attempt to plank.
This stage also makes it easy for Link to whiplash recover. Dsmash at 200% from the center platform? Whiplashed. This is really helpful against a horizontal KOer/gimper like MK.

Frankly FD sucks against MK, from experience. His high land speed and ability to dodge around projectiles on FD makes spamming-Link's greatest asset against MK- useless. Plus the layout of the stage makes for easy gimps, Link's biggest nightmare.
While it may not be as good as BF for MK, at least the spamming game won't be terribly effective here.
 

Anonano

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On Norfair, 55:45 MK.

On anywhere else, 75:25 MK. Once MK gets going there is no stopping him from gimping you.
 
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