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Link+ [Updated 10-8 - Farewell F-Air, we hardly knew ye]
- Thread starter Shadic
- Start date
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Link Fair was voted out of Gold.
bleyva
Smash Ace
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2009
- Messages
- 511
are you saying the strong-first-hit fair was voted out of Gold? why?
who even cares enough about link to vote on such things?
eisley
Smash Cadet
I am actually kindda glad since my play style tends to use the second hit during situational tech chases, ledge recoveries, etc. I am glad it remained different, since it seemed like it wouldve only made link more like melee link instead of being changed for buff or nerf purposes. Hate me all ya want for saying this! 
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
As mentioned earlier in the OP you said give some tips for Links or suggestions really.. I think something that would help Link out alot would either be A. Make his timer on his Bombs shorter to 4 seconds instead of what is it currently 7 or something? or B. You could always implement the characteristic of how BalancedBrawl has their Link currently. which by this I mean give him the option to use his hookshot(Clawshot) out of doing his UP B (return wise).
If you read the BalancedBrawl description they have it to a pretty well balanced mechanic that isn't really overpowered. But then again I'm not sure if the devs who work on B+ colabarate or do BBrawl on a seperate occasion. Imho this could make Link really good. It seems to work well in BBrawl.
Personally I would choose option B due to it being brawl+ due to Links bombs really don't help his recovery due to their hitstun.
Again this is just a suggestion to what atleast I think would make Links recovery better.
If you read the BalancedBrawl description they have it to a pretty well balanced mechanic that isn't really overpowered. But then again I'm not sure if the devs who work on B+ colabarate or do BBrawl on a seperate occasion. Imho this could make Link really good. It seems to work well in BBrawl.
Personally I would choose option B due to it being brawl+ due to Links bombs really don't help his recovery due to their hitstun.
Again this is just a suggestion to what atleast I think would make Links recovery better.
CountKaiser
Smash Lord
Stop discussing buffs, discuss metagame, for pete's sake.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Link's recovery is fine. Besides, no buff/nerf talk. It's sad that Link's f-air was shot down and I'm sure we will get reasoning but frankly Link is already pretty legit without it. He isn't top 10 but he is certainly very viable in the right hands.
What doubles partners do you think go well with Link? We might try a doubles tourney and I might team with a Link. I'm flexible on characters so just toss out suggestions on who has worked with you and your 2v2s.
What doubles partners do you think go well with Link? We might try a doubles tourney and I might team with a Link. I'm flexible on characters so just toss out suggestions on who has worked with you and your 2v2s.
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
hmmm a partner for Link for 2v2? I dunno I personally would pick Zelda for a partner due to she can help link recover his UP B for returning if he ever needed the boost.the only downfall is Link would take a bit more damage than needed. She has an excellent ground game and really powerful move setup without much of a downfall besides being floaty. Also not to mention she can primarily cover over head attacks due to her up smash and also she can always transform into sheik who is another great character.
I really haven't done 2v2's for B+ though since MI (Michigan) never has tourneys and I only play with this on occasion with 1 person sometimes rarley we have a 2v2.
I really haven't done 2v2's for B+ though since MI (Michigan) never has tourneys and I only play with this on occasion with 1 person sometimes rarley we have a 2v2.
Daakun
Smash Apprentice
- Joined
- Apr 21, 2009
- Messages
- 135
I wasn't there to vote against it, but I would have.
Has no one tried shff fair? Combos a few characters pretty nice, sets up a few kill moves including the obvious second hit of fair.
If you can't land the second hit odds are you didn't land the first and that's your problem, not Link's.
Has no one tried shff fair? Combos a few characters pretty nice, sets up a few kill moves including the obvious second hit of fair.
If you can't land the second hit odds are you didn't land the first and that's your problem, not Link's.
It's been FOREVER since I visited smash boards. I mean FOREVER. I got way into this game called Tatsunoko vs Capcom and quit the smash scene for almost 3 months. But this is my first visit to smash boards in like 2 and a half months and I'm thinking about getting back into the scene. I hope you can all forgive me for the time I missed and work I said I would do that I didn't do because I got to involved in TvC. (I just LOVE crossovers)
I updated to gold and I got to say I like what I'm seeing especially with the stages. I think the New stage based off the Donkey Kong stage that was changed is a GREAT stage for link.
If you do use link a strat I find works well is playing back to back. (most cases) Link is a character who thrives on his range and thus has the ability to quickly switch opponents with a lunging Fsmash. The way I play link in doubles. I usually fight less 1v1 and more of sneaking up behind your partners opponents. It involves switching partners more often than you may be use to and keeping people on their feet. this is why back to back fighting when you can is effective.
Great speed characters like Sonic or Falcon
On this note, I feel sonic partners well with Link. Link is a spacer, has kill and combo potential but has below average mobility and recovery. I feel sonic has the defensive shad to avoid projectiles while also the ground speed to rush in and take advantage of somebody who gets hit with a projectile. Sonic is one of the few characters I don't back to back fight with. The reason is that sonic has the speed that makes switching partners effortless. Sonic also has the unique ability to chase ANYBODY from across the stage that gets knocked down by a link boomerang should they fail to tech
Something that makes logical sense would be a gimping tank. Link needs somebody who can withstand a lot of projectile blows, and has great gimping potential because Link can get people offstage pretty well. That said, somebody like a DDD might make sense.
I've played very few Link DDD team matches but it works okay.
Edit: I forgot, I wanted to mention pika
I updated to gold and I got to say I like what I'm seeing especially with the stages. I think the New stage based off the Donkey Kong stage that was changed is a GREAT stage for link.
Let's be honest. Link isn't spectacular in doubles cause his projectiles get in the way a lot. However if I was forced to choose, I'd look into these (sonic and D3)
If you do use link a strat I find works well is playing back to back. (most cases) Link is a character who thrives on his range and thus has the ability to quickly switch opponents with a lunging Fsmash. The way I play link in doubles. I usually fight less 1v1 and more of sneaking up behind your partners opponents. It involves switching partners more often than you may be use to and keeping people on their feet. this is why back to back fighting when you can is effective.
Great speed characters like Sonic or Falcon
On this note, I feel sonic partners well with Link. Link is a spacer, has kill and combo potential but has below average mobility and recovery. I feel sonic has the defensive shad to avoid projectiles while also the ground speed to rush in and take advantage of somebody who gets hit with a projectile. Sonic is one of the few characters I don't back to back fight with. The reason is that sonic has the speed that makes switching partners effortless. Sonic also has the unique ability to chase ANYBODY from across the stage that gets knocked down by a link boomerang should they fail to tech
Something that makes logical sense would be a gimping tank. Link needs somebody who can withstand a lot of projectile blows, and has great gimping potential because Link can get people offstage pretty well. That said, somebody like a DDD might make sense.
I've played very few Link DDD team matches but it works okay.
Edit: I forgot, I wanted to mention pika
Cia
das kwl
^ holy crap at this post.
Link's fair stays, update title plz =D
also, I main this guy
Link's fair stays, update title plz =D
also, I main this guy
Cia
das kwl
His fair is already really good. I don't think you guys realized just how much link was given and how good he is. Instead of trying to have everything laid out for you, try putting in some work and refining your skills through practice.
Link's current fair allows for more combo damage and it let's you cover a full airdodge while landing the strong hit. learn how to position yourself to get the strong hit more often, and you'll see it's just fine.
jeez <_<
btw, i was one of the people who voted 'NO' on the fair change.
Link's current fair allows for more combo damage and it let's you cover a full airdodge while landing the strong hit. learn how to position yourself to get the strong hit more often, and you'll see it's just fine.
jeez <_<
btw, i was one of the people who voted 'NO' on the fair change.
I don't think you realise how much time I've put into Link+ with current fair and good fair. Being told how to play link like I have no idea what I'm talking about is not cool. I've been playing link since 64, and have been with + link since the beginning.
Current fair is garbage. There are almost no real setups into both hits (dtilt). First hit is completely worthless, and anything it does well the strong first hit fair does the same or better. Good fair can also bait airdodges except the second hit hits much better and hits at a lower angle. All of that is beside the fact that it helps link in his most vunerable state. ON THE LEDGE.
You can love the crappy fair all you want, but good luck getting anywhere with link in tournies. You better have some **** good seconds.
yeh, I know you were one of the ones voteing against it. Wish I knew whos idea it was to have a revote at the last minute when it had already been scheduled to make it in.
I'm really sick of talking about it though... Hes keeping crappy fair for a good while. I gotta get used to useing samus most of my matches.
hmmm....... I believe fair lacks setups. (D-tilt is the best setup and thats hard to land)
Additionally "let's you cover a full air dodge while landing the strong hit." there are other moves to do this , (dair)
I'm not looking to get into a huge argument though so I'll just say this
You could change my mind though vanz if you showed some vids or share some combo strings that lead into fair.........I'm interested to see your link now and how you are making use of fair.
Additionally "let's you cover a full air dodge while landing the strong hit." there are other moves to do this , (dair)
I'm not looking to get into a huge argument though so I'll just say this
You could change my mind though vanz if you showed some vids or share some combo strings that lead into fair.........I'm interested to see your link now and how you are making use of fair.
Thunderhorse+
Smash Ace
I don't think it was ever scheduled or confirmed to make it in. Ever. At most we agreed to vote on it at the last moment, but unless there was a stealth change/promise/release implemented (wouldn't surprise me given current events), we never had any intention of putting it in automatically without a vote.
Granted I was one of the people who didn't vote on the matter, because I never had sufficient practice with it (in fact, last week is the first week I played Brawl+ with competent opponents since the Fair change was proposed, and I didn't use Link because we were legitimately training for DSO2), so that's as much as I'm going to say as far as that's concerned. It did seem like a good idea though, so I'm not trying to shut you down. It's just that I don't believe there was ever a promise to put it in.
If there was I will gladly eat my words.
Dingding123
Smash Journeyman
Aww. Maylay Link's fair didn't get put in.
Oh well, at least it still combos at low %'s. Also, gotta love fair's second hit. I've killed countless people thru mindgaemz with that.
I like to think of it as a quicker, weakened aerial version of his fsmash.
Oh well, at least it still combos at low %'s. Also, gotta love fair's second hit. I've killed countless people thru mindgaemz with that.
I like to think of it as a quicker, weakened aerial version of his fsmash.
Cia
das kwl
This is a really REALLY crappy attitude to have. Link has so much going for him. Is fair really the reason you'll use another character? =/
I don't like arguing either, but my suggestion is to try other uses for fair. Not every move has to be combo'd into to be good. Use it as a spacing tool. It's puts a nice hitbox in front of you and covers dodge. As for vids of my Link, I can upload some tmr night. I'll post a link once they're up. (no pun intended)
Naw, I'll use samus because the majority of players I play regularly, and in tournies use characters that link just can't fight. Characters with little hitstun are links worst nightmares. Lucario, Peach, luigi ect... Not to mention characters like Gannon and marth that samus is just safer and better to use against. Good fair helped his game alot. Without it it's better for me to go samus then to risk link in most matchups that favor the 2.
Samus is my second anyway... Since Mario just gets rocked hard by anyone with range or a good recovery.
Cia
das kwl
Lucario and Luigi, I can understand. But Peach is like my best match up (next to Jiggs) that's weird. You can just camp her senseless. But every character has their good and bad match ups and it's good to keep a secondary. But I strongly recommend seeing how far you can take Link. He has serious potential.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
WBR always seems convinced that Link has potential, until nobody cares to rep him and he's not shown to be very good. I think I've only seen tourny footage of one person playing him... Byron. And that's from a year ago.
/Westcoastjohns
As for getting somebody out of an airdodge - Isn't that what Dair, Uair, and Nair are for?
/Westcoastjohns
As for getting somebody out of an airdodge - Isn't that what Dair, Uair, and Nair are for?
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
No one uses Link because Brawl+ is still a game in its infant stage for getting into the scene. With a gold set that is changing but just saying. Also, people are all hopped up on Ganondorf and Captain Falcon when they first start. We have a good Link in Toledo and I'm sure if and when Bralw+ takes off we will see a few great Links. Their are 39 viable characters. I bet we won't see a lot of any one character in Brawl+
Shadic
Alakadoof?
I doubt that, honestly. Throughout all the game's history we've seen emphasis on around 5-9 characters. Even if things are stable now, I'm sure we'll have relatively uneven character representation... That's just how it goes.
Veril
Frame Savant
There was no promise to put in the new fair. I promised to have a vote, and did. It got voted down.
Saying nobody uses Link is silly. VaNz and Blind both use Link (you know, in regions where people are actually good at B+). I could spoon feed you advantage data, KO%, etc, but... why? The attitude here is awful.
Saying nobody uses Link is silly. VaNz and Blind both use Link (you know, in regions where people are actually good at B+). I could spoon feed you advantage data, KO%, etc, but... why? The attitude here is awful.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Harsh, dude. Not my fault Northwest is dumb and anti B+.
Anyways. I'd actually like to see data on a SHFF'd Fair with only the first hit connecting. First hit vs. landing lag.
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
first of all Mario is a little pudgy man beast sure is recovery is bad but his ground/air game is amazing also his cape is what most characters should fear most. I would suggest for you to try him out but then again this game is strongly character choice which means any character can be good depending on the match up as long as its not against a MK.
I do give ya props though for playing Samus. I try to play her and feels really weird for me to play atleast. Not soo much ZSS but regular samus is rough to play.
I also think your underestimating Link. his projectiles can give him a really good spacing game and also hes one of the very few characters to where if you get your or rather trick your opponent in to your rate of speed of playing. True his Recovery can leave him vulnerable at some points but regardless He can gimp pretty well with his boomerang and arrows which imo is better than Samus's ranged abilities.
Bandit
Smash Lord
That was from April 6th in the Brawl+ thread. Sorry Veril, you did tell them it was going in.
Thunderhorse+
Smash Ace
Well...Shadic, can I borrow one of your Bidoofkazam's spoons? Cause I have a whole lot of eating to do.
Veril
Frame Savant
Matt4300 was referring to an actual conversation we had. I did promise him a vote. I also promised Blind I would put it to a vote (and Blind is opposed to the alt fair). BUT I included the caveat that I couldn't guarantee that the new fair would go in.
I should have edited that post, clearly. I did want to put the alt. fair in. I absolutely didn't expect it to be voted down. But it was.
TH if you buy me some sort of edible hat, I will eat it. I'll even reimburse you for the cost of said hat.
As to why Link's fair was voted down, I have a few reasons.
Strong hit first fair is scrubby. There's a ton of subtlety to the move currently. It's good for shield pressure, amazing for hitting people off platforms and baiting airdodges. When the hits were reversed, it lost potency in all of these uses and became lol high kb move. There was no purpose for the second hit. And it was still terrible as a gtfo move because it comes out slow.
Also it was an unecessary change to the metagame. Link is a good character, some arguing that he is even better than toon link.
Strong hit first fair is scrubby. There's a ton of subtlety to the move currently. It's good for shield pressure, amazing for hitting people off platforms and baiting airdodges. When the hits were reversed, it lost potency in all of these uses and became lol high kb move. There was no purpose for the second hit. And it was still terrible as a gtfo move because it comes out slow.
Also it was an unecessary change to the metagame. Link is a good character, some arguing that he is even better than toon link.
Shadic
Alakadoof?
How is it scrubby? It was strong first hit in 64 and Melee.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Arguing? I think it's pretty obvious Link is the better. That being said I think we all agree that Link would have been better with the strong hit, but he frankly didn't need it. He has good kill moves and the B+ f-air serves it's purpose well. Scrubby is a harsh word but the truth is the F-air we were promised was easy to use and offered little depth to the character.
I'm not sure why we are having this argument. Link is what he is, so let's deal. The only time we should see this article surface is when the vid of Veril eating a hat is posted.
Yeh, what bandit was talking about. In the convo we had you said you would try. When I read that it was just forgotten in one of the builds I figured it was suposed to make it in. I also remeber a few pages back when everyone got really upset that the fair was not in. I got infracted. Then you came in and said we were all being douches for nothing becuase it was going to GO IN... At wich point I had a small party infront of my laptop.
@Blinds.... Theres a reason that so many chars have these so called "scrubby" fairs. They are gooood. Link has many more hard to use situational "pro" moves than most chars. Wich is why hes so fun, but also why he has always sucked. Marth and Ike revolve around these. This fair may have uses, but its just another situational hard to use move added to links moveset. Ever wonder why Links nair is widely considered his best move?
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
His back air is really good also due to it can hit 2x and is really fast. but ya either of these are decent to which I agree. I believe overall though for links air spacing game hes supposed to use the clawshot which imo is probably his best choice due to its spacing width and also you can chase someone with it but I do not to mention it really has no end frames from the air to ground into a grab but I digress it is really hard to hit the tiny characters with that move. by tiny characters I mean Metaknight lucas ness squirtle. Still though I would probably play Link over toon link or samus any day of the week.
No matter how badly I want the fair put in, I don't think at this point our *****ing is going to get the fair in.
Let's just wait for tourney results and vids to prove which side is right.
(Looks for vids VaNz didn't put up)
But seriously, this isn't the best option right now, its the only option. Only through hard evidence and results will we be able to prove our point now.
==================================================
On a similar subject. I'm not so much concerned that Link is a bad character. I think we all agree he has some good pros and cons. I was just concerned that Link was maybe outclassed by some characters and this would eventually lead to less representation.
(I have to go but I'll put more thought into this and edit this post later.)
Let's just wait for tourney results and vids to prove which side is right.
(Looks for vids VaNz didn't put up)
But seriously, this isn't the best option right now, its the only option. Only through hard evidence and results will we be able to prove our point now.
==================================================
On a similar subject. I'm not so much concerned that Link is a bad character. I think we all agree he has some good pros and cons. I was just concerned that Link was maybe outclassed by some characters and this would eventually lead to less representation.
(I have to go but I'll put more thought into this and edit this post later.)
DotheDiddyMonkeyDance
Smash Apprentice
Ya hes primarly really out classed by MetaKnight and characters who can get to him quickly and are rapid like fox, falco, captainfalcon etc. I really wish people wouldve tried out the new Fair before turning it down just becuase it looks good on paper doesn't necessarily mean its good in the game.
Cia
das kwl
Here are a few matches of my Link. (wifi, but the connection was good, so w.e)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TBEQRrlM3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpXNxc3hDa4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucZOhD0ck4k
There's another match with my link, but that match almost went to time LOLOL. just look on the channel if you want to see that one.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8TBEQRrlM3o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpXNxc3hDa4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ucZOhD0ck4k
There's another match with my link, but that match almost went to time LOLOL. just look on the channel if you want to see that one.
goodoldganon
Smash Champion
Good **** from both plays but my only question is why didn't you mix Link's jab up that much? Maybe I missed it, but what about jab - jab -grab? Or near the end of the ZSS match you had an opportunity where Ryoko sidestepped the first jabs and you could have Up-b'd him. As always maybe I'm playing bads but I like dash canceling jabs a lot with Link. The mixup options he has out of that jab is nuts.
Overall, you prove your point that Link has to tools to fight the cast and has some nasty kill moves. Seriously? Mid eighties on Final D with a D-air on Peach? Too good
Overall, you prove your point that Link has to tools to fight the cast and has some nasty kill moves. Seriously? Mid eighties on Final D with a D-air on Peach? Too good
Shadic
Alakadoof?
Jab Cancel can be a pain in the *** on Wifi, regardless of lag.