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Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
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AncientSunlight
Well it's been a few hours, I'm over the butthurt already. Who's looking forward to Zelda U?
 

cardboardowl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
111
I think you guys MAY be overreacting on the jab1 nerf.

It won't make him unplayable, and I've been doing quite well with link. Given his other buffs we are going to have to see where he lands. People saying he is the worst character now are being ridiculous.
 

Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
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I must emphasize now our throw game has hugely improved. Before it was basically entirely useless, now we actually have useful set-ups out of Dthrow. Too bad Uthrow kills later, but how often were you using that to kill at 160-170 anyhow?
 

FSK

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
547
Location
Norway
I think you guys MAY be overreacting on the jab1 nerf.

It won't make him unplayable, and I've been doing quite well with link. Given his other buffs we are going to have to see where he lands. People saying he is the worst character now are being ridiculous.
Or maybe you are not aware of the importance of Link's first jab to Link's metagame?

I don't think people are saying this will make him unplayable, but he sure as hell became less viable in high level play. His other buffs are very very minor. The added percents to grounded up-b is not that important since you won't be using that move too much in a match anyway and the move is already very risky to use. Saying he is the worst I guess is overreacting but I haven't seen many say that, but he is definitly in the bottom tier area now. Before the patch I would have called him low tier.
 
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ScizorVX

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Mar 31, 2008
Messages
84
Location
Cali
i'm seriously angry AF about the jab change i have more link notes than listed on ele's note thing i'll post up later
 

FSK

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
547
Location
Norway
Did they change the texture of Link's shield on alternative costumes?

Apparently not nvm.
 
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link7

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
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Steilacoom, Washington
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Kidlink77
3DS FC
2234-7140-8163
God, I feel like Link has been nerfed the hardest since Sm4sh came out. First TC gone, now this. What's sad is that there were those overlays that clearly stated that Link's jab could lead into anything. Now he just feels like Brawl Link, with better recovery and mobility. Everything that made Link unique is gone. I plan on not updating my 3DS, and playing Link offline.
I made a promise to myself that if Link was as bad as he was in Brawl, I would work with him diligently, but I would also work with Shulk. He had a good run, but it may be time to hang up the Link cap for a while. I'm feeling like complete **** right now. I love Link, I just hate what they've done to him.
*Sigh* I suppose the only good thing that came out of this for me is that my Melee and PM Link won't become as stale.
 

Skylit

Smash Cadet
Joined
Aug 18, 2014
Messages
36
NNID
Skylit
I'm so used to jab 1 down smash for a kill, now I'm getting 3 jabs instead. It's gonna be a hard habit to get rid of, but I'm not giving up on Link yet. I'm getting some grabs in on For glory using jab 2...but man it just doesn't feel the same. Jab 1 was my everything :'|

Edit: Even jab 1 to Sheild is slower, I don't even know what to say anymore. My movement just feels different because of that
 
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Dumbfire

Sex? Yes, I'm familiar with the theory
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AncientSunlight
Link’s ‘Jab’, it was a magic word
Too beautiful to last
We go and speak of else
But who forgets the past?
There was magic in it once
That’s known by every Link
But patches love Link not
And we must sigh and think.

A happy game, with joyous play
We played without a sigh! –
That belongs to yesterday:
Jab one has gone to die.
Dthrows combo without art
And Up Bs inflict pains
Yet that will not recall a part
Of what our jab contains.

Even in his sweetest hour
He’s not close to our old Link
We’ll find that magic thrill no more
Which I restored with ink.
The greatest move, the fairest jab,
That left so deep a scar
Has gone the way of our sad grab,
And left us worse a char.

When we look back on what Link was
And feel what he is now
We know what is the cause
Of our new, ugly vow
To leave Sakurai with great hate
Though it will not make us friends.
Why did we give him all that bait?
We should have seen what it portends.

Like withered combos out of grab
Our great days are past
We have lost our finest jab
And are bad at last!
The joy is fled, the hate is cold,
And Link’s fine splendours too
Are gone, they’re of days old
And all we knew’s untrue.

Each chain that we could access then
We honored with our song;
We were among the proudest men
For jab never did us wrong.
Jab to Utilt, jab to dsmash,
It was our one uniting call! –
Now jab is all but worthless trash
And we have lost it all.

Sakurai is blamed wrong:
He destroys all in time.
Remember his mad, mute song
When you discuss his crime.
Our joys with Link are gone and sold
Through one big thoughtless fray
Already now the game grows old
And starts to feel all gray.

Our ‘jab’, there lies in that one word
Joys more than Sheik can claim
We would give much to call it back
To save our wretched game.
The greatest joys we ever met
The goodness that surpast
Will be there – and yet
The best is in the past.
 
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Fox Is Openly Deceptive

Smash Detective
Administrator
BRoomer
Joined
Sep 22, 2008
Messages
3,969
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WinMelee, Australia
It's super awkward. Every time I find myself throwing out a Jab it's like, what else could I have done? other than run away and create some space? I need a new got-to move. You know what, let's take it to the metagame thread, because this is important.

Edit: Wow VD, you've out-done yourself. That poem was beautiful.
 
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zeldasmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,994
Location
Puerto Rico
God, I feel like Link has been nerfed the hardest since Sm4sh came out. First TC gone, now this. What's sad is that there were those overlays that clearly stated that Link's jab could lead into anything. Now he just feels like Brawl Link, with better recovery and mobility. Everything that made Link unique is gone. I plan on not updating my 3DS, and playing Link offline.
I made a promise to myself that if Link was as bad as he was in Brawl, I would work with him diligently, but I would also work with Shulk. He had a good run, but it may be time to hang up the Link cap for a while. I'm feeling like complete **** right now. I love Link, I just hate what they've done to him.
*Sigh* I suppose the only good thing that came out of this for me is that my Melee and PM Link won't become as stale.
I completely agree. In every patch since the first one, Link has constantly be getting worse. Removal of Bomb Canceling and now this. From a potential high tier, to once again, one of the worst in the game. Yet TOON LINK still has his jab, Fox still has his jab lock (i feel like i constantly need to reiterate that), but let's take away Link's for no reason.

I really don't give a crap about Lucas, but if Lucas coming back = another patch, then Lucas can't come any faster. This is ridiculous. As a die hard Link main, i am this close to drop him for another character, but i won't.
 

link7

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 14, 2013
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Steilacoom, Washington
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2234-7140-8163
I completely agree. In every patch since the first one, Link has constantly be getting worse. Removal of Bomb Canceling and now this. From a potential high tier, to once again, one of the worst in the game. Yet TOON LINK still has his jab, Fox still has his jab lock (i feel like i constantly need to reiterate that), but let's take away Link's for no reason.

I really don't give a crap about Lucas, but if Lucas coming back = another patch, then Lucas can't come any faster. This is ridiculous. As a die hard Link main, i am this close to drop him for another character, but i won't.
Fox, DDD, and Gay still have their jab locks/follow ups. Why? I feel like this patch was MEANT to ruin Link intentionally. I feel like it's just plain disrespectful towards Link.
 

Fox Is Openly Deceptive

Smash Detective
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BRoomer
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WinMelee, Australia
Fox, DDD, and Gay still have their jab locks/follow ups. Why? I feel like this patch was MEANT to ruin Link intentionally. I feel like it's just plain disrespectful towards Link.
Ah yes, but you're forgetting. Not every character that had a Jab combo had people that main the character making videos about it proclaiming how infinitely broken it is to the world and how it should be patched out with no evidence or in some cases even in the face of opposing evidence.
 

link7

Smash Lord
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Ah yes, but you're forgetting. Not every character that had a Jab combo had people that main the character making videos about it proclaiming how infinitely broken it is to the world and how it should be patched out with no evidence or in some cases even in the face of opposing evidence.
Let's make it happen.
 

FSK

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
547
Location
Norway
I'm gonna go Link in FG and I'm just going to spam. Because apparantly thats how they want us to play. I will not approach anyone and will go for timeouts whenever I can. Sakurai ****ing bring it.
 

zeldasmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,994
Location
Puerto Rico
Fox, DDD, and Gay still have their jab locks/follow ups. Why? I feel like this patch was MEANT to ruin Link intentionally. I feel like it's just plain disrespectful towards Link.
I actually use Fox and his Jab 1 > Jab 2 still works. From what i hear, Dedede's remain unchanged and Gay's Jab 1 still has IASA frames, so you can crouch cancel Jab 1 and use something else.

Apparently, they thought Link was too good with IASA Jab 1.......it's like they are trying to make Link follow the trend to "always be low tier in every Smash" and it really does piss me off. Fox & Pikachu have been great characters since the Smash 64 days, and they still are. Link has been below-average in every Smash game. Smash 4 seemed to break that trend, but then came this patch, and reduced him to below-average again.

The fact that Gay is once again better than Link and him being also one of my most hated additions to the roster really irks me. :mad:
 

Lawz.

The Original Deadpool Fan
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Pennsylvania
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I really hate this. They had the guts to keep FOX'S Jab Lock, but they not only took away Link's, but completely butcher his jab from being one of the best to one of the worst. Keep one of the biggest strengths from one of the top tiers, but completely butcher a low high tier AT BEST.
They really call this balancing!?
I'm sorry but Fox? Top tier?
Link? Low high tier? What game were YOU playing?

I think you guys MAY be overreacting on the jab1 nerf.

It won't make him unplayable, and I've been doing quite well with link. Given his other buffs we are going to have to see where he lands. People saying he is the worst character now are being ridiculous.
Removing his only CQC option is a significant blow to Link's metagame...his "buffs" other than the change to throws don't do much in the grand scheme of things. And where are you doing quite well? For Glory?

He's essentially Brawl Link, and if you.played Brawl Link competitively, then you would know how sad that statement is.
 

FSK

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 22, 2009
Messages
547
Location
Norway
So apparantly G&W's bucket stays filled between stocks. G&W's dthrow combos into bucket at 0% which kills you. Basically you can't use bombs against G&W...
 

Elessar

Nouyons TO
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I still have ptsd from Brawl Link. And I agree with Fox. This is the fault of all the morons who kept calling it an infinite even when it want.

L2play scrubs.
 

Lawz.

The Original Deadpool Fan
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So apparantly G&W's bucket stays filled between stocks. G&W's dthrow combos into bucket at 0% which kills you. Basically you can't use bombs against G&W...
Have no fear, nobody uses him anyway
 

cardboardowl

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Oct 10, 2014
Messages
111
I'm sorry but Fox? Top tier?
Link? Low high tier? What game were YOU playing?



Removing his only CQC option is a significant blow to Link's metagame...his "buffs" other than the change to throws don't do much in the grand scheme of things. And where are you doing quite well? For Glory?

He's essentially Brawl Link, and if you.played Brawl Link competitively, then you would know how sad that statement is.
I'm not saying he is fine. I'm saying that it doesn't destroy him. It definitely hurts, but people are acting like it was his only move.

Also I go to tournies often in the austin/houston/ san marcos area. I don't play for glory almost ever. MY connection sucks.
 

ZSaberLink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
393
Man I was really afraid of that Sakurai would screw up Jab 1 and I was right. Great.... Probably will play MK8 instead more or something.
 

KenMeister

Smash Lord
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Great, they got rid of Link's cheap gimmicks, and they buffed his up special. Very pleased.
Name me how many people actually use his up-special competitively outside of recovering?
 

ZSaberLink

Smash Journeyman
Joined
Mar 19, 2006
Messages
393
Great, they got rid of Link's cheap gimmicks, and they buffed his up special. Very pleased.
Only a very small part of Link's Jab 1 (the somewhat Jab lock) was even a gimmick and was easily fixable (no more Jab 1 vacuum after like the 2nd hit and the problem would be solved). Everything else was just to execute normal combos up close. Grounded up special is still not super useful. If they actually buffed his recovery that might be another thing, but I doubt they did (and w/ momentum + 2nd jump it's relatively decent).
 
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Zane the pure

Smash Ace
Joined
Jun 6, 2009
Messages
519
Location
The Hyperbolic "Do Work" chamber
I'm gonna go Link in FG and I'm just going to spam. Because apparantly thats how they want us to play. I will not approach anyone and will go for timeouts whenever I can. Sakurai ****ing bring it.
^
"Wow, Jab1 is garbage now giving Link an essentially nonexistent CQ game" I thought... "It's almost like they want me to camp people indefinitely. . ."

"Yes, I understand now... I will do what must be done. I will turtle the balls off of people until they nerf Link again."


It begins
 
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Vonzar the Soulrender

4th Dimensional Horror
Joined
Oct 8, 2008
Messages
819
Looks like it's that time already.

Back to the Melee: Originally released in 2008, this game was so bad that it pushed people to get a degree in programming just to make it stop sucking as much. Most just went back to Melee

Back to the Melee 2: Released in 2014. The game looked like a promising and enjoyable game but soon people understood the mechanics problems with the game, they did however keep playing. That is until the patches really started coming in and people gave up entirely, prompting them once again to go back to Melee.

To Be Continued...
 

Zerker

Smash Apprentice
Joined
Feb 20, 2015
Messages
162
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Burien, Washington
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AlexZerker
I honestly think we should get a petition letter going to send to Sakurai, or something to that effect.
We can't interrupt our first jab safely when the rest of the cast can, which is upright unfair, as it's a base fundamental action in this "rock paper scissors" game of "shield grab attack".
First jab on shield? Punished.
Why. There's no reason for this to happen to this one character out of the whole cast.
Removing the jab "infinite" was understandable, the removal of jab cancel was questionable, but ruining the jab completely?
No. Just stop. That's outrageous, and completely uncalled for.
Especially when other characters kept their own jab infinites.
 

Zelkam

Resident Wizard
Joined
Oct 8, 2014
Messages
881
Location
Knoxville, TN
Switch FC
1068-8431-0431
Looks like it's that time already.

Back to the Melee: Originally released in 2008, this game was so bad that it pushed people to get a degree in programming just to make it stop sucking as much. Most just went back to Melee

Back to the Melee 2: Released in 2014. The game looked like a promising and enjoyable game but soon people understood the mechanics problems with the game, they did however keep playing. That is until the patches really started coming in and people gave up entirely, prompting them once again to go back to Melee.

To Be Continued...
I think I'm starting to see things your way Cy...

I started smashing with melee and after a brief affair with Samus started playing as Link all day everyday. I loved everything about Link, from his design to his play style. Considering that Link was in his Smash Brothers prime during Melee I never felt like my character choice was holding me back. Ever since then Link has continually gotten worse. I was only a casual scrub back then and even I could tell that Link got the short end of the stick in the transition from Melee to Brawl. It was due to his utterly awful design in Brawl that pushed me to search out tips and guides that ultimately led me here. I spent so many month on these boards (technically over on AiB) reading and studying from all the great Links and although I do feel like I improved, I still felt like there was only so far I could go if I stayed with Link.

We all had such high hopes for Sm4sh Link. When the game first came out we all scrambled to find out what had been changed and started down a road of discoveries that looked so promising. Then the first patch came and some of our newly discovered tools were stripped away from us. However, being the Link mains that we were, we threw a few curses towards Sakurai's name and began work all over to rebuild Link's metagame. Again, things began to look oh so promising. We found new and exciting tools that helped us to forget about the ones we had lost. All the while, though, we could all feel the dark shadow that hung over us. We celebrated at each new discovery, but deep down we knew that celebration would be short lived.

Guys...I'm really disheartened. I honestly don't even want to boot up my Wii and download the patch after all the things I've heard so far. I'm starting to sympathize with all the Link's during the glory days that have given up and moved on. I don't really want to give up on smash and I certainly don't want to give up on Link, but I'm finding it harder and harder to find reasons to keep going.

I'm gonna try pull up tights, straighten my tunic, and work on comparing the recently found changes with the footage I have saved from my old Brawl to Sm4sh video this weekend. I should be able to see if there's any frame data changes and get a video up that shows changes to knockback or frame data side by side. Don't hold your breath though because the last video took a lot longer than I expected and that's when I was excited about it.

I think that's enough rambling for now. Guess I just needed to vent...

Edit: The new image from NOA on twitter is all too fitting...
 
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GaboRJ

Smash Rookie
Joined
Nov 21, 2014
Messages
15
Location
Toronto, Ontario
I still go for the jab even though I know it's gone, force of habit I guess. Feels like there's something wrong with the joystick when it doesn't happen.
 

MintyGuy700

Smash Apprentice
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May 15, 2014
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198
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Minnesota
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MintyGuy700
3DS FC
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I honestly think we should get a petition letter going to send to Sakurai, or something to that effect.
We can't interrupt our first jab safely when the rest of the cast can, which is upright unfair, as it's a base fundamental action in this "rock paper scissors" game of "shield grab attack".
First jab on shield? Punished.
Why. There's no reason for this to happen to this one character out of the whole cast.
Removing the jab "infinite" was understandable, the removal of jab cancel was questionable, but ruining the jab completely?
No. Just stop. That's outrageous, and completely uncalled for.
Especially when other characters kept their own jab infinites.
Actually, Ike can't but that's really nitpicky.
 

zeldasmash

Smash Lord
Joined
Jan 26, 2010
Messages
1,994
Location
Puerto Rico
Sakurai, what were you on when patching Link? Do you hate Link so much that you nerf him in every consecutive patch we get? You let that piece of **** Gay keep most of the good stuff, but you take away all of Link's for no reason? It was a PSUEDO-Jab Lock. There were so many ways around it that Link players barely used it. They used it for set-ups and combos. Almost every other character in the game has jabs that allow them to cancel into other stuff, but apparently Link having it is too much.

Link is currently one of the only characters that lack a safe Jab at all (Ganondorf only has A jab) and you thought it was a good idea to patch it, yet you didn't think Gay should have had this removed? You didn't think Dedede should have had this removed? You didn't think Fox should have had this removed? What about every other character that has a safe jab, should they have their's removed?

This is just bull Sakurai........
 

MintyGuy700

Smash Apprentice
Joined
May 15, 2014
Messages
198
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Minnesota
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MintyGuy700
3DS FC
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Basically, in order to keep casuals happy...DESTROY LINK, IKE, AND GANON, ZELDA, MAC, AND GRENINJA.

I think Sakurai still hates Smashers. :/
 

_Relapse_

Smash Cadet
Joined
Oct 28, 2014
Messages
72
Location
Unda di sea!
3DS FC
0962-9930-5001
I really hate this. They had the guts to keep FOX'S Jab Lock, but they not only took away Link's, but completely butcher his jab from being one of the best to one of the worst. Keep one of the biggest strengths from one of the top tiers, but completely butcher a low high tier AT BEST.
They really call this balancing!?
How @ Fox Is Openly Deceptive Fox Is Openly Deceptive must look right now:

 

PhantomShab

Smash Lord
Joined
Sep 11, 2014
Messages
1,216
I feel Sakurai just dislikes Zelda in general tbh.

For real, this one nerf was more than enough to put a hell of a damper for what would have been a thing to celebrate (Mewtwo's retrun).
 
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