Social Link checked the thread. Wow! This is a nice thread!

[Linq]

Link's single jab has to return to his idle animation before you can do other moves.................................

 

[FSK]

so Bombslides are still in atleast.

Link's jab has changed, first hit has more end lag. No more first hit of jab to other stuff....

In other news DDD's jablock thing still seems to be in. What the **** did I say, this is bull****.

 

[kxiong92]

At this point, is it better to do the 2nd jab into other?

 

[Nimious]

From what I can tell so far and thoughts.

Link:
1 Jab Infinite removed.
- Rejoice those 10 characters that couldn't get out of this.
- Rejoice all the ignorant people who played any other character who could get out of it but had no idea how they could.
2 Jab Cancels nerfed.
- This and along with everything that involved Jab no longer chain like before and if it still works far slower than before (e.g Jab -> Smash, Jab -> Grab)
- Jab -> Up Tilt no longer a true combo at high percents
- At high percentages jab one when close to opponent will push opponent all the way out of range of jab two if not done quickly enough (might make whatever jab cancels left even tougher)
Number 2 is the largest nerf of them for Link mains who weren't abusers of jab locks. It's back to Brawl jabs in other words two jabs before canceling to something else. This however is far less effective and less likely to work in Smash 4 which is why it was recommended to do one jab in the first place.
3 Bombslides untouched.
- Metagame safe
4 Down Throw buffed (less knockback).
- Link grab combos?
5 Up-throw is nerfed, needs higher percentages to kill
- Rage may no longer affect throws or the throw itself is nerfed (possibly both)
Either rage no longer affects throws or up-throw nerfed. It could also be both.
5 Up B buffed (more damage, possibly more knockback)
- Maybe someone will actually charge this now.

Overall I think it's a nerf unless there's some grab combo discovery. Otherwise the jab cancel hurts way too much.

 

[Nimious]

At this point, is it better to do the 2nd jab into other?

Given that you have no choice now, yeah.

Jab two isn't nearly as good as jab one. Without looking at the data jab two is probably comparable to first hit of bair in cancel potential. That's not good but that's what's left.

All Nintendo had to do was remove the suction BS from jab one. Instead they did this and went too far.

 

[FSK]

Theres is also some changes to the control settings menu, I recommend everyone checking that out to find out what its about.

and I agree with Nimious this was a nerf for us.

Diddy's hoo hah has changed slightly but for all practical purposes its basically the same. Slight damage and knockback nerf but it still comboes like a ************ out of dthrow anyway.

Sheiks bair knockback has been nerfed SIGNIFICANTLY.

 

[Dumbfire]

I... I might.. manage. At least we still have bombslides. This is a sad day for Link. One more nerf (bomblides gone) and I'd be done.

 

[Rizen]

You're right. This was the fastest I could jab 1 now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdgfQxt4JuU
vs before the patch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmtA1VCHWY
However jab 1 cancels might work at higher %s, maybe. I noticed in the first video^ that after several jab 1s Mario is flung out of it. We might still be able to get several jab 1s in at high %s.

 

[Nimious]

I... I might.. manage. At least we still have bombslides. This is a sad day for Link. One more nerf (bomblides gone) and I'd be done.

That's exactly why I am up this late.

I thought to myself I can accept the loss of the Jab Infinite but if they took away Bombslides I'd just quit.

I was so relieved when I could still do it. Now I can finally sleep lol :].

 

[FSK]

Gonna test out Mewtwo now, hype?

oh and I look at the diddy boards and they said something about DI and that the hoo ha is not guaranteed anymore at kill percents and stuff. I have yet to test the DI aspect of it.

 

[Nimious]

You're right. This was the fastest I could jab 1 now:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TdgfQxt4JuU
vs before the patch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWmtA1VCHWY
However jab 1 cancels might work at higher %s, maybe. I noticed in the first video^ that after several jab 1s Mario is flung out of it. We might still be able to get several jab 1s in at high %s.

Yeah but look at that percentage. Mario should be dead if you can get Jab -> Jab -> Smash or Up Tilt, or even a Grab to Up Throw would end him.

I know what you're saying though and I did try it myself. In my test with the C-Stick and doing jab infinites at 100% or so the CPU would jump out. I don't think it would work but if it does it's unlikely to be at any useful percentage.

The only scenario I imagine jab infinite (if we can still call it that) would be useful in is if you catch your opponent without a jump and the character they're using doesn't have one of the Up Bs with invincibility frames or a fast Nair or other any other move for that matter.

 

[Rizen]

^Even at high %s Mario was forced out of the jab cancel death combo but we can get several off it it might be good vs heavies like Bowser and Ganon.

Link seems to be able to 3 jab combo at the same speed so jab 1 has more end lag but transfers to jab 2 as fast as before. Jab2 cancels aren't that much worse than jab 1 cancels; we'll loose the death combo but can still jab1>jab2> cancel to Dsmash/Utilt etc.

 

[Nimious]

^Even at high %s Mario was forced out of the jab cancel death combo but we can get several off it it might be good vs heavies like Bowser and Ganon.

Link seems to be able to 3 jab combo at the same speed so jab 1 has more end lag but transfers to jab 2 as fast as before. Jab2 cancels aren't that much worse than jab 1 cancels; we'll loose the death combo but can still jab1>jab2> cancel to Dsmash/Utilt etc.

Being a former Brawl Link main it took me a week or so to get use to single jab instead of double jab. I realized that had to be done because jab two gives just enough delay that some characters can shield the smash attack. In other cases it pushes them a bit too far for Up Smash or Up Tilt, especially if your opponent DIs right. This might not matter against some characters but this is a needless nerf on Link.

The biggest thing to note is that Jab -> Up Tilt the only true combo to kill with at high percentages is gone. We'll have to make do with jab two now but still it bothers me that Nintendo couldn't just remove the suction on jab one which would have solved all the problems without nerfing Link's jab cancels.

Edit: By the way the forced end can happen at any time. If you jab someone is too close (i.e on top of you) they get pushed back, at high percentages they get pushed far enough that you can't jab them.

In other words someone just has to DI into you to get out of the lock.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

I had a feeling they'd do this. That jab cancel nerf just hurts my feelings. But as long as we can do jab 2 cancels, we'll be just fine. Just takes a little practice. We probably got over a thousand Link matches under each of our belts, a few more wouldn't be too bad to adjust jab combos.

EDIT:
I'm wondering about Link's grab combos/speed/power/length. Anyone got some stuff on that?

 

[DUKEL]

From what I can tell so far and thoughts.

4 Down Throw buffed (less knockback).
- Link grab combos?

I just combed dthrow into sidesmash at 0% with the cpu set to jump but that doesn't mean a whole lot.

Back throw has been nerfed. It used to be our highest % gain throw (I think it was 8% but don't quote me on that) now it's just 4%. Up throw is the only throw that gives more than 4%.

I wonder how our increased power in our u special will affect recovery... will we be in as much of a disadvantage off stage?

edit:

his Hylian shield now blocks Fox and falco's lasers (and probably the other previously unblockable attacks).

that's a pretty major nerf for us in this MU. With the end-lag on that attack punishing it should be easier now.

 

[Rizen]

EDIT:
I'm wondering about Link's grab combos/speed/power/length. Anyone got some stuff on that?

Link's damage is the same. It's harder to tell for the other things due to human imprecision but they seem the same.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

I'm thinking downthrow, back air, boomerang already. I'm good with damage being the same. I'm really hoping for some extra length, honestly.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

This is going to be a silly question, but is this just for 3ds so far? I still haven't received an update for the wii-u; I'm just wondering if that's just because my internet is terrible.

 

[Deleted member]

This is going to be a silly question, but is this just for 3ds so far? I still haven't received an update for the wii-u; I'm just wondering if that's just because my internet is terrible.

I wasn't receiving the update at first, but then I reset my Wii U and suddenly, it was downloading.

 

[Nimious]

Up-throw is nerfed, needs higher percentages to kill. Can someone verify?

Either rage no longer affects throws or up-throw is nerfed. It could also be both.

Captain Falcon now dies at I think over 178% on FD. That's definitely higher than it use to be.

 

[Fox Is Openly Deceptive]

I wasn't receiving the update at first, but then I reset my Wii U and suddenly, it was downloading.

Oh ok. Yep it's just my internet being derp then. Looks like I'll be useless for a while. May as well get some Jab cancel locks in while I'm waiting, just for old time's sake.

 

[Himura Kenshin]

I feel it. Do a infinite.....one.....last.....time.

 

[DJTHED]

I can dig the grounded Up-B buff. It seems to kill uncharged at the ledge at around 90% or so.

 

[FSK]

I think they have made throws easier to DI in general not just Diddy.

 

[Elessar]

I just want to say that I blame all the scrubs who called and keep calling the Jab cancel an infinite. It never was an infinite, and calling it that just spread misinformation which got us a completely undeserved, unneeded and possibly catastrophic nerf. Nintendo and Sakurai are our of touch morons, we know that, but it's also the fault of everyone who kept calling it a freaking infinite.

Also, this kinda confirms that Nintendo really has no idea what they're doing.

 

[FSK]

I just want to say that I blame all the scrubs who called and keep calling the Jab cancel an infinite. It never was an infinite, and calling it that just spread misinformation which got us a completely undeserved, unneeded and possibly catastrophic nerf. Nintendo and Sakurai are our of touch morons, we know that, but it's also the fault of everyone who kept calling it a freaking infinite.

Also, this kinda confirms that Nintendo really has no idea what they're doing.

adding to the fact that DDD's lock seems to be still in which is way better than Link anyway.

 

[Elessar]

On a lighter side, can we share replays now?

 

[Rizen]

adding to the fact that DDD's lock seems to be still in which is way better than Link anyway.

How did DDD's lock work?

 

[FSK]

On a lighter side, can we share replays now?

old ones are incompatible and needs to be deleted.

How did DDD's lock work?

just jab twice wait a bit jab twice again. Repeat until kill percents and KO with the third jab hit

 

[Elessar]

old ones are incompatible and needs to be deleted.

I assumed that much. I just want to know if now we can do it.

Also, I'm at work all day today, so I'd like to ask for a small favor. Can someone post the link to the general patch notes in the patch notes thread I have here. That way when I get some free time I'll update the OP of that thread with the new patch notes. Thanks.

 

[Rizen]

I was planning on the jab cancel to be patched out all along. Easy come, easy go :/. At least the top tiers got nerfed; that will help Link and other lower characters indirectly.

@ Elessar this?
http://smashboards.com/threads/mewtwo-patch-version-1-0-6-thread.398902/

 

[FSK]

the jab change also means that Link has gotten unsafer on shields. If we jab a shield we are screwed.

 

[Rizen]

How much less safe are jab 2 cancels than jab 1 cancels were? It seems like jab 2 cancels are still pretty good.

 

[DUKEL]

hmmm... that's weird.

our up-special does pre-patch damage when the opponent is at 0%

edit: not doing this on the 3DS

 

[Rizen]

**** Bomb Fsmash was patched out

 

[TNS|Quake]

bomb forward tilt gone. Thank god for these nerfs. I was sick of seeing this character in every top 8

 

[DUKEL]

sorry for the double post i accidentally just quoted myself and posted instead of editing.

bombs throw further when you use down special to throw them, but only when you're on the ground. I'm not sure if this was the case pre-patch, but if not it could be another interesting bomb mixup.

 

[Rizen]

bomb forward tilt gone. Thank god for these nerfs. I was sick of seeing this character in every top 8

 

[zeldasmash]

bomb forward tilt gone. Thank god for these nerfs. I was sick of seeing this character in every top 8

Dude, this a character that did not need many nerfs, yet they gave him unwarranted nerfs instead of the only nerf he should have gotten which is the suctioning of Jab 1. This is the opposite of good for us.

 

[TNS|Quake]

sarcasm guys