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Liar Game Mafia | GAME OVER! Who won the 100 gazzillion yen?

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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My mind w.r.t. OS' wall of gambit:



Sooooo confusing and just way too wonky for my tastes. I just don't get it at all nor do I really like the idea of letting our game go into a mechanical drone of like deciding between like what do? However, the plan that he seemed to have spent a long while developing goes down the drain now that Asdioh isn't "confirmed" mafia as he said.

It would be incredibly funny if Asdioh was actually mafia taking back his claim because he became interested in the game but I don't think that is the case to be fully honest.

*random note, that gif pretty much sums much my mind when I'm trying to decipher who could possibly be town in this game xD*
 

July

Smash Apprentice
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Huh, I never really thought of it as a Cello gambit but yeah iirc, he has pulled this sort of thing before. Still didn't like it then since they always ended up just becoming a mess. xD So yeah to be fair, it's not just a soupa gambit. Just a really wonky gambit it seems.
Lol well I thought of it because I remember Cello doing something very similar in Rusty Guillotine Mafia as town, and I was honestly hoping that you and Swords, who was also in that game iirc, would relate to that and see if you saw similarities/differences to the gambit as well. For me, I see much more for town Asdioh to gain and in some ways less of a risk (he's not going against his wincon) than scum Asdioh could, whether sk or mafia.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Circus, why are you practically leaving every door open besides OS? You say that everyone but OS is on the table for you in terms of a lynch.
Because that's the way my reads are lining up. And you happen to be ignoring the doors that I'm closing. For example, I am closing the door leading to you being Raziek's scummate. I am closing the door that Swords could be the SK. I'm closing the door that OS could be scum (okay, I may be leaving this one open a crack. That's what OS gets for being good at being scum. But I can't deny liking his play so far, mostly, and he's not pulling any stupid gambits or submitting dumb contracts or getting himself modkilled for no reason SO...).

Where did the July dislike come out of because this is the first you are bringing up July dislike to my memory. The most dislike I have heard from you is dislike of me and that's it.
PoE, mostly. I have sort of eliminated half or more of the roster as potential candidates for Raz's scumbuddy slot. Not me, not you, not OS, doubt it's Swords. So it's July or Asdioh. I currently buy Asdioh's gambit attempt. That puts July in the lead there.

Also, it's absolutely hilarious (not really) that you're saying this to me when you still haven't explained why you're suddenly suspicious of Swords, nor what caused your wariness of July to abate. You've had wishy-washy reads all game, and you haven't even backed up the wishy-wash.

Why isn't Swords the SK in your eyes? It feels like you are just going along with popular opinion.
Hah, no.

For what it's worth, he hasn't been worse than null in my eyes since he replaced in. But it was this post that immediately cleared him of SK suspcion for me. SK would never say that. That's an easy "not me" lynch for the SK, regardless of whatever Asdioh's alignment truly is, and it's totally reasonable to jump on. I doubt the SK would have been arguing away from an Asdioh lynch, even for townie points.

Basically what I dislike the most about the paragraph is that you are trying to shut off every avenue for Asdioh in that post and just saying "Well you could still be the SK if you aren't mafia so still you have to go." I saw the opposite of what July seemed to have saw.
....

He claimed mafia. Are you kidding me? What avenue do you think Asdioh had at that point that I was denying him? He put himself in that position by claiming scum.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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I also agree with his points on Circus. Even though I can see reasons why lynching Asdioh would have been a good policy for toDay, I agree with J's reasons over Circus', the reason being that while J's is using much more reason and taking it through possible outcomes without overwhelming amounts of information, Circus' just feels a bit stabby, like I said. I can see how he might have been frustrated townie yesterDay, I've seen some pro-town intent but I also see a lot of ambivalence towards who dies and that makes me uncomfortable.
You just brought up the biggest qualm both myself and Swords have with Circus.

His NEGATIVITY towards like everything that comes around in this game.

July said:
@J: Yes.

Right now my thoughts:

Asdioh= not sk, not mafia= town
J= not mafia, not likely sk, seems genuine in whole Asdioh thing though= town read
Swords= not sk, maybe mafia= not priority, leaning more town than scum
OS= possible sk, possible mafia, honestly a bit of an enigma to me= suspicious
Circus= possible sk, possible mafia, very likely he is one or the other based on reaction to Asdioh= leaning scum
Wow, these are not bad reads at all.

July, care to join me with my vote for now?

Vote: Circus
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
BRoomer
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You just brought up the biggest qualm both myself and Swords have with Circus.

His NEGATIVITY towards like everything that comes around in this game.
That's.

Not.

A.

Scumtell.

Holy mother of god if you're actually town....
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Messages
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Because that's the way my reads are lining up. And you happen to be ignoring the doors that I'm closing. For example, I am closing the door leading to you being Raziek's scummate. I am closing the door that Swords could be the SK. I'm closing the door that OS could be scum (okay, I may be leaving this one open a crack. That's what OS gets for being good at being scum. But I can't deny liking his play so far, mostly, and he's not pulling any stupid gambits or submitting dumb contracts or getting himself modkilled for no reason SO...).
Not pulling any stupid gambits? Not making plans for contracts? Did you read OS' wall, like at all? It was gambitty/contractual galore, Circus. =/

Kay, I'm not Raz' scum-mate. Why? Swords isn't SK, why?

Why do you now believe Asdioh when you were so adamant on lynching him? Whereas, myself/July/Swords were considering the possibility you were more like "no, lynch lynch lynch, this day is settled." You say you are likely to believe Asdioh, I don't get how from you.

Circus said:
PoE, mostly. I have sort of eliminated half or more of the roster as potential candidates for Raz's scumbuddy slot. Not me, not you, not OS, doubt it's Swords. So it's July or Asdioh. I currently buy Asdioh's gambit attempt. That puts July in the lead there.

Also, it's absolutely hilarious (not really) that you're saying this to me when you still haven't explained why you're suddenly suspicious of Swords, nor what caused your wariness of July to abate. You've had wishy-washy reads all game, and you haven't even backed up the wishy-wash.
Ya know what I keep noticing, it doesn't mean much and it could be added on to OS' theory of indy-slipping but you seem more worried about finding Raz' scum-buddy (BTW, How in the world are you doing this? Raz left no connections so how are you trying to disprove relationships based on those things?) than finding the SK. *shruggers*

Why is July left there and not Swords? Why have I dissapated below July? If you are looking for SK and you feel I am a bigger scum-pick, why aren't you pushing me over her?

I explained my Swords suspicion Circus. Wishy-washy reads all game? Hmm, kay.

Circus said:
He claimed mafia. Are you kidding me? What avenue do you think Asdioh had at that point that I was denying him? He put himself in that position by claiming scum.
Ya know, it's not just me expressing dislike this time so ya can't really get away with an "Are you kidding me" statement. True enough, he put him in that position but you were also trying to stab him with possibly being the SK as well. I don't get why. Asdioh pointed out dislike with your approach and so has July now.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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That's.

Not.

A.

Scumtell.

Holy mother of god if you're actually town....
Then tell us why it isn't Circus. Others seem to think so besides you. Your negativity of trying to make everything look worse than it actually is and the way you try and make others look worse IS scummy in our eyes.

You are just trying to show the negative in situations it seems instead of giving fair chances/trying to actually look for a legit reasoning.

That's what I feel you are doing Circus.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Circus, I gotta point out something as well. You only seem to comment/go offensive when it is myself who bring up the points. You haven't really gone into anything with Swords/Asdioh/July when they are bringing up things against you sooooo can you do that as well? =P
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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@Circus: As well as explaining your SwordsScum suspicion on top of the July suspicion explanation, could you please explain your scum-read on me? I don't really remember it besides the sole fact that I find you scum and therefore your vote (for me) translates more into OMGUS due to you disliking the fact I'm pushing you. So why do you have me as a scum-read?
Your reads lack substantive, sincere-looking reasoning. Your posts suffer from a drought of critical thinking and (hate to use a term this vague, but) town intent. You are not voting me for any logical reasons. You've just latched onto how "negative" I've been and think you'll be able to build that into a genuine-looking case through repetition of suspicion and general FUD throwing ("man, I don't like the way Circus approached that." "Circus sure is leaving a lot of doors open." "Circus is just being such a meanie, that must mean he's scum because townies are nice."). You're not just wrong; you are observably uninterested in actually being right.

Also, what in the world makes you trust OS the most? I mean, sure I, myself, have him as town-lean but nothing to make me say that he is the only one in town where my head is like "Yes, he cool broskii."
It's not that I think OS is the towniest player here. It's just that, of my town leans, he's being the smartest and is taking the fewest needless risks in regards to keeping our numbers intact. The truth is that I'm not seeing any scumtells from him other than the vague meta of OS being more interested/active in games in which he is scum. That is still something that bothers me, to be sure. But if I succumb to that, then it's going to freeze me up and I'm not going to get anywhere. I have to trust my instincts to have any hope of moving forward, and I see town intent in OS right now. If I'm wrong, then I guess he just gets to gloat again after he wins this game.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Circus, I gotta point out something as well. You only seem to comment/go offensive when it is myself who bring up the points. You haven't really gone into anything with Swords/Asdioh/July when they are bringing up things against you sooooo can you do that as well? =P
They aren't being as dense as you're being about nulltells. I'll respond to things that I feel are worth responding to. You are clearly trying to push my buttons.
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Your reads lack substantive, sincere-looking reasoning. Your posts suffer from a drought of critical thinking and (hate to use a term this vague, but) town intent. You are not voting me for any logical reasons. You've just latched onto how "negative" I've been and think you'll be able to build that into a genuine-looking case through repetition of suspicion and general FUD throwing ("man, I don't like the way Circus approached that." "Circus sure is leaving a lot of doors open." "Circus is just being such a meanie, that must mean he's scum because townies are nice."). You're not just wrong; you are observably uninterested in actually being right.
Circus, the logic is flawed because it isn't just me who is calling you on this.

Sincere-looking reasoning? That's one of the major reasons why people seem to have me as town this game is because of the fact they feel I am being sincere and thinking critically about the situations that are going on with like Asdioh's claim and my push on you.

Lack of substantiation? Not true. My July suspicion had substantiation that she went against. My suspicion of you has been shown and also I have substantiated myself against OS as well. So this point just isn't even correct. Also lets bring up a little fact of you Circus, where has your substantiation been? Can you bring up some things of content of you scum-hunting/substantiting your reads?

FUD throwing? You wanna go there Mr. Mud-slinger?

Observably uninterested in actually being right........? That doesn't even sound justifiable with my play this game like at all. You've stated I'm wrong but not really shown how. Nor have you shown how any of this is scummy. *shruggers*
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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They aren't being as dense as you're being about nulltells. I'll respond to things that I feel are worth responding to. You are clearly trying to push my buttons.
Clearly, that's the sole purpose of this push. :rolleyes:

So then tell me Circus, what makes you of July voting you? I also don't get something because it seems contradictory to what you are saying. You say that you say you are only responding to things you feel worth responding to, then why is me "pushing your buttons" in your mind worth responding to? It seems backwards, tbh. @.@
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Then tell us why it isn't Circus. Others seem to think so besides you. Your negativity of trying to make everything look worse than it actually is and the way you try and make others look worse IS scummy in our eyes.

You are just trying to show the negative in situations it seems instead of giving fair chances/trying to actually look for a legit reasoning.

That's what I feel you are doing Circus.
You are conflating scumhunting with manipulation. I have not "[made] everything look worse than it actually is." I have pressured players and I have expressed reads and hunches about people based on observations. You are sticking to this point too hard. It holds no water to anyone actually reading this game carefully. I think it has been established pretty well that, despite the praise this playerlist was getting in the beginning, that some people are not willing to do any truly heavy lifting. I am. That's all you're seeing.
 

#HBC | J

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Hmm, I need others opinions on this matter because there's no way I can convince you to agree with me on something it seems you are adamant defending against plus I don't really need your vote for your lynch haha. xD It doesn't work that way.

@Swords/OS/Asdioh: Opinions on Circus and your willingness to lynch him toDay? I know Swords/Asdioh said you guys disliked Circus but could you go into more depth as to why? OS, specifically, if not Circus for toDay than who?



As fun as this is Circus, I'm going to catch some rest. But this game intrigued me since I saw you and July viewing. I decided to play a few posts for the evening haha. Till tomorrow (hopefully)! ^^
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Clearly, that's the sole purpose of this push. :rolleyes:

So then tell me Circus, what makes you of July voting you? I also don't get something because it seems contradictory to what you are saying. You say that you say you are only responding to things you feel worth responding to, then why is me "pushing your buttons" in your mind worth responding to? It seems backwards, tbh. @.@
July is one of my top scum suspects right now. What do you think I make of her voting for me? She's just following your lead anyway, so it's not like it's worth much to respond to her separately.

I can't even keep up with your flood of bull**** right now. I'm taking a break, may be off for the night.

For what it's worth, I'm at L-2. No excuses for anyone if I get hammered.
 

#HBC | J

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She is only your top scum suspect due to PoE. Oh for goodness sake, it isn't even that big of a question and you are making a big deal of it. She isn't just following my lead...she posted reasoning towards why she has you as scum.

Cool your jets, no one is going to quick-hammer you. Especially considering no one decided to vote for Asdioh in the entire time he claimed mafia.

Circus, if you can't keep up with my apparant BS why aren't you focusing on anyone else or trying to further your scum-hunting to clear up your reads on July/Swords.

You also really need to answer how you are making the disconnections with Raz' slot, but for another time.
 

#HBC | J

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One final note, a scum-tell, for me, that I have seen from Circus is this.

He isn't scum-hunting. All he is doing lately is playing defense/somewhat over-defense to me. I really cannot recall him scum-hunting this game where it isn't revolved around my attack on him, (no matter how asinine it may be to him, I don't see why he hasn't begun to focus on others, he's stated reads but he hasn't pressured anyone nor has he like DONE things to further his reads nor anything to really substantiate them fully.). He seems more self-involved/worried about the attack on him, in my eyes.
 

Circus

Rhymes with Jerkus
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Circus, if you can't keep up with my apparant BS why aren't you focusing on anyone else or trying to further your scum-hunting to clear up your reads on July/Swords.
Because you're driving me bonkers by responding to me with the same nullpoints you've been regurgitating since Day 1. And since other people are apparently buying that (or are willing to side with you on it for the sake of a mislynch), I now have to deal with defending myself against something totally stupid. Over and over again. You can't rightly expect to me focus on clearing up other reads when I get two votes thrown on me in the blink of an eye by two of my biggest scumreads in the game, for no reasons that I consider valid. Of course this is going to eat up my attention. You must have known it would.

You also really need to answer how you are making the disconnections with Raz' slot, but for another time.
What kind of detailing do you really expect me to go into with this? I reread what little interaction Raziek did have with people on D1 and came to some conclusions. You and he, and to a lesser extent, he and OS, had exchanges that were too openly supportive and nice for me to think that you would be connected to him in that way. That's the long and the short of it. I'm not going go quote all the exchanges for you to make this point; that would be a waste of my time and yours.

Also, your most recent post is exactly what I'm talking about when I say you're throwing FUD. That's so off-base from how I've actually played this game it's unreal. I have put more observable time and effort into trying to read this game than most of the players here. You're trying to paint me as defensive and negative when I'm actually just assertive and unwilling to take bull****.

Side-note: Just want to point out that Gheb's body's hardly even cold and J's already back to using emoticons. What happened J? I thought you were trying to challenge yourself not to do that. Or was that BS, like I expected?

Now I'm seriously out.
 

Overswarm

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Vote: J

J will die today.

I'm not really sure what is "gambity" about giving town an entire other lynch and giving us a 50% chance to win regardless of who is the SK.

But before anyone is lynched, we're filling in the contracts. I'll probably write them up tomorrow and each and every player in here is going to accept them. Each and every one. If you balk on this, you die today, or if we have more than one, you die the next day.

All we have to do is fill in the names.

This isn't an option. This isn't a "gambit". This is giving town the ability to lynch someone when only two players remain. I think it's fairly obvious why someone who wouldn't want this can die. Should any townie live until the final two players, it is a coin flip based off of what the majority town decided Days beforehand.

If Sworddancer is the SK, I'm fine with him winning because he's played well. I'm going to reread him, but if I have a tossup between Sworddancer and anyone else in this game, I'm picking sworddancer to live on that alone.




Also, everyone gets to nameclaim.

Circus will pick the order everyone nameclaims.



Here's how we're going to do the contracts:

Potentially Pro-town:
3. Sworddancer.
4. Circus
5. J
6. July
7. Overswarm
2. Asdioh

One will be lynched. Probably J, imo.

One will be Nkilled. Probably me, imo.

3. Sworddancer.
4. Circus
6. July
2. Asdioh

At this point, there will be at most one mafia and one SK left, giving us a 50% chance at hitting anti-town.

if we assume that July and Asdioh need to die, July can be lynched and everyone else can have a contract that states they can only vote for Asdioh on the following day. Including Asdioh.

This will result in us having the most chances to kill the SK.

But let's say July is town and Asdioh is the SK. We kill Asdioh.

Circus and Sworddancer left. Circus is mafia.

Tie game, right?

Nope! Because we also have contracts going that says "if you get down to a two man lylo that doesn't involve Asdioh, you must vote for Circus for the entire Day phase and may not unvote"; the punishment would be modkill.

This would give us the optimal chance at winning. The only variable is the names.




I repeat: this is not an option.


Seriously, it is simple math.


Reading J's posts on the matter has convinced me he is either unintelligent or of anti-town alignment, and I'd bet it is the latter. Or at least hope.
 

I am Zim!

Smash Rookie
Joined
Feb 3, 2011
Messages
0
Voted |
Voter(s)
|
Votes to lynch
Circus​
|
J, July​
|
2 / 4​
J​
|
Overswarm​
|
1 / 4​

Not voting: Asdioh, Sworddancer., Circus

Voteblocked:

With 6 players alive, it takes 4 to lynch!

Deadline: Saturday March 17, 11:59 CET
 

#HBC | J

Prince of DGamesia
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Circus, you are a big hypocrite this game. You keep saying I throw FUD, when you do it in every post as a type of defense/offense. So I don't get how it's scummy when you ar talking about it.

Your last paragraph is the very thing you keep screaming to the hilltops about because that's FUD so practice what you preach. =/

OS, it seems the only reason you are voting me is because I didn't like you big wall.

And name claims aren't going to do much in this game so *shrug*. I guess I'm cool with it.

:phone:
 

Overswarm

is laughing at you
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Messages
21,181
J said:
OS, it seems the only reason you are voting me is because I didn't like you big wall.
"Oh no, there is a murderer among us four! We have one shot to pick who the murderer is!" -J

"Actually, I know a way we can pick two people from the four, giving us a 2 in 4 shot instead of a 1 in 4" -OS

"That's stupid." -J

There's literally only two players in the game that would dislike that, the mafia player and the serial killer.
 

#HBC | J

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I never said it was stupid, I said it was wonky and I didn't really understand it haha.
 

Overswarm

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I never said it was stupid, I said it was wonky and I didn't really understand it haha.
OS said:
Reading J's posts on the matter has convinced me he is either unintelligent or of anti-town alignment, and I'd bet it is the latter. Or at least hope.
I hope you see my dilemma.
 

#HBC | Dancer

The nicest of the damned.
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OS your "indie tell" of Circus in your 256 is reachy and in no one is actually an indie tell. There's no way to know rather or not that was what Circus was doing, or if he was just asking a bad question (it happens). Really, your reasoning for not liking Circus indie is much more convincing than your reasoning for liking Circus indie (that said, I don't really recall Circus actively pushing you that much, so . . . yeah).
So what kind of reactions was I looking for?
First off, the mafia would know immediately that it was a gambit. They would most likely be the most wishy-washy about lynching me.
The SK would jump at the opportunity to lynch somebody that wasn't him or her.
Town would see no reason to disbelieve me, and they would have to prioritize lynching me against lynching the more dangerous SK. They would be willing to discuss this and think about alternate routes, as well as continue scumhunting.
He continues to be perceptive. Does he perhaps know too much? His attention to detail that I noticed before might in fact just be him looking for reasons to lynch anybody. He also has not looked elsewhere after seeing my claim post.
Not terribly solid reason, but I can see your point. Like the catch on Circus.

OS said:
Circus' reaction is bad, yes. But it's also logical. There were exactly 0 people that didn't want you dead; no one would ever be "wishy washy", especially not mafia who can lynch absolutely anyone and be fine with it.
Not really though. It's Why would a sk Asdioh take a gamble like he did (which was what Circus was suggesting)? Asdioh was hardly in any **** at the time, and there is no incentive for him to throw the game like that. The explanation that Asdioh lost motivation to play the game but still wanted to scumhunt and hope that he can somehow live off of catching the indie makes much more sense to me.
Believe what? It's obviously there, but it doesn't mean anything we can confirm.
Well, if we were to believe it, then obviouslywe couldn't pin Asdioh off of just that. Basically I'm just asking you if you believe Asdioh really made the crumb or he just so happened to notice that he could use that to spell "bait."

In retrospect, the chances that "bait" just so happened to be spelled from that is pretty low, so it was a dumb question.
Explain yourself, you dirty, dirty FUD-thrower.
Saying "I don't like this post" =/= FUD.

J said:
Circus, why are you practically leaving every door open besides OS? You say that everyone but OS is on the table for you in terms of a lynch.

Where did the July dislike come out of because this is the first you are bringing up July dislike to my memory. The most dislike I have heard from you is dislike of me and that's it.

Why isn't Swords the SK in your eyes? It feels like you are just going along with popular opinion.
Okay, actually don't like this post. J, you basically just threw every standard tell at Circus, rather or not they were true. One could accuse Circus of many things, but "leaving doors open" and "going along with popular opinion" are not one of them.


@Asdioh's large reveal post: I believe that his claim was gambit, and it fits with his behavior of trying to get everyone to react, refusing to name claim, and acting with motivation still despite apparently "giving up" with the death of his partner.
Lol well I thought of it because I remember Cello doing something very similar in Rusty Guillotine Mafia as town, and I was honestly hoping that you and Swords, who was also in that game iirc, would relate to that and see if you saw similarities/differences to the gambit as well. For me, I see much more for town Asdioh to gain and in some ways less of a risk (he's not going against his wincon) than scum Asdioh could, whether sk or mafia.
Kk, this makes sense. Honestly don't remember much of RG cept for Cello claiming mafia at one point when he was town just to prove a point or something like that. Anyways, while it's pretty dumb for town Asdioh to do what he did, it's even dumber for scum Asdioh to of done it, and his actions after his claim do line up. He can be town.


Circus said:
Also, it's absolutely hilarious (not really) that you're saying this to me when you still haven't explained why you're suddenly suspicious of Swords, nor what caused your wariness of July to abate. You've had wishy-washy reads all game, and you haven't even backed up the wishy-wash.


OS disagreeing with you is anti-town at best, not scummy.

OS give me a read on Circus and July please.

@J: OS's heavy focus on game mechanics reads as _____ (fill in the blank).

Current reads:

OS-Seems hyper focused on killing the sk. Perhaps this could be a facade but reading over his massive post, it seems like his effort to get rid of the sk is too genuine. If he's scum, then he's probably mafia. Not a priority.
Asdioh-Town for July's reasons.
J-Was literally the only person to really attack Raz yesturDay. Obviously it could be a bus but the nature of his attack on Raz actually DOESN'T read like a bus just because I know scum J would probably put more effort into a bus. Not mafia, and has been a bit too actively on the forefront for my tastes in sk. Can lean town.
July-Null. Day 0-1 play didn't really bear much from her. Play lately has been better, things I can agree with. Not a priority atm.
Circus-Earlier Gheb stated suspicion over Circus's attitude (can't remember where though) for the reasons of his play matching his scum meta, or something like that. I'm not going to be incriminating Circus over meta, but I can see Gheb's point in a different light. Circus's play simply seems disingenuous to me. It's not just that Circus is "focusing too much on the negative aspects of things," it's that by being overly-antagonist, he's not allowing himself to actually get a good grasp on things. Kinda like my scum play in RG, where I was super anatagonist at first simply because that's how I felt like I had to be, even though it wasn't necessarily the case. There's a lack of town motivation in it.

Also, Asdioh's "catch" \doesn't help him either.

Hope that answers your question J.

Would vote for Circus, but he's at L_2 so yeah.
 

Overswarm

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No one hammers today until contracts are designed.


Here's the real question:

Do we tell the SK who we're going to lynch beforehand? He can't do anything about it once the contracts are sent in...

But if we wait until tomorrow, we'll have a bit of a situation with potentially 2 anti town and 2 town. Hard to get people to sign up for contracts without a townie saying "I won't do it" and getting himself killed.
 

Overswarm

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Hmm...

Honestly now that I think about it, it doesn't even matter. Sworddancer and myself are considered "most townie", him more than me. It is highly likely that we would die via NKill if nothing changed. Exception being one of us being the SK.



Sworddancer, how would you feel about everyone posting a list of who they'd want to die in a very specific order?

With this list we can set up our contracts to follow this list. I haven't done the math yet but we might be able to do it toMorrow as well.
 

Overswarm

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Potentially Pro-town:
3. Sworddancer.
4. Circus
5. J
6. July
7. Overswarm
2. Asdioh

Hmm...

If we no lynch today, killing from top down:


4. Circus
5. J
6. July
7. Overswarm
2. Asdioh

This would leave us with 5 players. (0 lynches, 1 SK kill)

assuming standard phase, we'd get 3 players left (1 lynch, 2 SK kill)


6. July
7. Overswarm
2. Asdioh

A no lynch and an SK kill would result in two then a contract lynch (2 lynch, 3 SK kill)


Lyncihng today, bottom up:

3. Sworddancer.
4. Circus
5. J
6. July
7. Overswarm
2. Asdioh

Becomes (1 lynch, 1 NKill)

3. Sworddancer.
4. Circus
5. J
6. July

Becomes: (2 lynch, 2 Nkill)

3. Sworddancer.
4. Circus

Becomes: (3 lynch, 2 Nkill)

3. Sworddancer.


Lynching today is preferrable.


@Mod, how about that deadline extension?
 

#HBC | J

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Swords said:
@J: OS's heavy focus on game mechanics reads as _____ (fill in the blank).
looking like he is doing things when he technically isn't doing any scum-hunting. He just is generating a bunch of null posts that don't do much especially after D1 where he had shown scum-hunting on Gheb and his connection case of J+Gheb.
 

Overswarm

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Are you kidding?

I guaranteed us a 50% chance of victory before we've even done a successful lynch. If you want to say that's not working towards my wincon, feel free, but I still think you need to die.
 

#HBC | J

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You think I need to die just because I don't understand what this fool-proof plan is.

You aren't really scum-hunting in the traditional sense, and more trying to use the contracts/gambit with them in order to accomplish what you are doing.

Also you don't garuntee anything because there is no proof that this plan will be fool-proof to a 50% ratio.
 

#HBC | Dancer

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OS said:
Sworddancer, how would you feel about everyone posting a list of who they'd want to die in a very specific order?
So basically just a reads list? Sure, I'm down.

Speaking of which, get to my requests OS.
 

Overswarm

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You think I need to die just because I don't understand what this fool-proof plan is.

You aren't really scum-hunting in the traditional sense, and more trying to use the contracts/gambit with them in order to accomplish what you are doing.

Also you don't garuntee anything because there is no proof that this plan will be fool-proof to a 50% ratio.
It's math, J.

The reason one town + one anti-town killing role always results in the anti-town role winning "in endgame" instead of a normal day/night phase is because it's an automatic no-lynch. We can remove the fact that it is an automatic no-lynch by forcing a player to vote for themselves. NOT doing this results in the SK merely winning by default or a tie game between town and no-nkill mafia. We literally can only gain by doing this.

So basically just a reads list? Sure, I'm down.

Speaking of which, get to my requests OS.
Cool. I'm off work tomorrow (yessss) so I should have time to read a bit and actually put some more thought into the players.

You go first, then decide who goes next from there.


To clarify, you're picking the order of people you'd kill if you could just kill them today one at a time until you found the SK.
 

I am Zim!

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A Deadline Extension has been granted.

Deadline: Tuesday March 20, 11:59 CET​
 

Overswarm

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Excellent. We're gonna need those lists ASAP. This will help us determine our lynch and our contracts. We don't have too much time since it's over the weekend though -_-;;
 

#HBC | Dancer

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Actually, most people have already really made "read" lists, so I don't know what this is going to do but make things more convenient.

*shrug*

Circus > July > OS > J > Asdioh

Really am hard pressed to see Asdioh pulling that stunt off as scum.

mmmmm, Circus, I guess you can go next.
 

Asdioh

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I'm not sure why we got a deadline extension with only 2(?) votes for it, but that's fine with me.

I'm not sure why OS wants to lynch J, but I have only skimmed the most recent page, because the posts are, as usual, long >=(
 

Circus

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Asdioh, you don't like the walls? Well, here's another.



Also, everyone gets to nameclaim.

Circus will pick the order everyone nameclaims.
If this is still the plan, then...

J
July
Overswarm
Swords

It obviously makes the most sense from my own point of view to go last, since claiming my own name isn't informational for me, but I don't really care. I'll claim first/soon if that's what people want—seems fair considering I'm apparently Undesirable No.1 right now.

Now, one more go at J, because I'll be damned if I let this Day end before I make my point clear, as difficult as it is to muster up the effort to peel through all of this again.

J, the difference between what you're calling my FUD and what I'm calling your FUD is that I haven't been just subtly trying to sew avenues to lynches for myself this game, where, from where I'm sitting, it looks like you have. I haven't been promoting "fear, uncertainty, or doubt." You're confusing FUD-throwing with mud-slinging; I will humbly admit to the latter, it's what happens when I get excitable about reads. You've seen me do it plenty of times before. It's not necessarily nice or always the best approach, but it's what I do and it's not a scumtell. I'm straight up calling you out, loud and clear. I'm taking overt, open stances. You haven't been, for the most part. Until only recently, you've been happy to just make jabs from the sidelines. That's the key difference. I see things I don't like about your play and state them, explaining where I'm coming from even if you would obviously take issue with how I may be characterizing it. When I'm suspicious of something, I make it known pretty quickly—just because I only feel like discussing the negative characteristics or possibilities most of the time doesn't mean I'm scum. I just don't generally find talking about how townie someone might look to be as helpful.

In contrast you start out the game with things like "July is capable of being trecherous and manipulative!" before she's really even started to play. And "Gee, I don't like Circus' tone -waits for someone to visibly start swinging that way- Hey, July, vote for Circus with me! :3"

And that's just a subset of the wishy-washy, back-seat scumhunting I've been seeing from you this game. It's you "pressuring" July for all of five minutes before soon deciding "eh, I guess either Circus or Swords for SK, because OS and July just seem more townie because of reasons." It's you saying "OS kind of scares me so, you know, we could lynch him if ya'll wanted to." It's you saying "well, we might still have to lynch Asdioh, I don't know, I don't want to think about it." It makes it look like you're just trying to throw out option to people, wait for someone to attach themselves to one of them so you know how to properly position yourself, and then start reeling them in.

That last link is actually nice, because you have another line in it which actually reveals your intent quite well. You say you're tired and that you'll try to think of something to say later, rather than thinking of something to do (ask some questions? Pressure some people? If you don't know what you're next move is as a townie, then the logical thing to do would be to get other people to start saying things so you can build your reads, not to worry about what your next statement's going to be about).

I mean, something like this. It just drives me batty. You literally go out of your way to make it clear to people that I could be just about any type of scum. You don't commit to any opinions on what I could be based on my play. "Well, he's posting a lot but he's acting kind of like an individual so maybe he's a townie or maybe he's the SK or maybe he's mafia who's good at hiding his scummate. I don't know, reads are gonna be hard, uguu." What is that for? How is that helpful to town? How is that anything other than dragging my name in the mud for no good given reason.

I mean, even after we got a mafia flip, you refused to commit to any strong stances or leans. Yes, I know Raziek didn't talk much. That doesn't mean you get to just throw up your hands and say "well, I guess we still know nothing. Maybe July?" This is what I mean when I say that you are visibly uninterested in actually trying to locate scum. You just keep throwing **** at the wall, not even really caring what sticks and what doesn't.

You even make excuses for when you're about to do things like this. "I'm gonna stay out of the spotlight so I can read you guys better." Bull****. Such bull****. You step out of the spotlight so that people stop focusing on you, bicker between other people all Day, and then fall into some other lynch by the end of the phase almost by default and desperation.

It's been a problem for me with you all game. And there's an observable difference to be seen between my play and yours for anyone paying attention. Accuse me of being narrow-minded or whatever, but I'm being open and forthright while you are being demonstrably shadier and less sticky to your stances. And I hate it.

Vote: J

I'm hoping some of you will wise up and see what I'm seeing, or at least stop drinking J's fruit punch. But if not, whatever, me dying now wouldn't be the worst thing as long as you guys got OS' contract idea going properly. I figured I would end up as a good mislynch target later on in the game, but now the idea of dealing with this in mylo really sounds like a nightmare to me. July keeps going into hiding—pretty confident she's the last maf. Really believe J's gonna be the SK. There's at least one scum between the two of them.
 

Circus

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Also, just a little something else to chew on.

From one of J's first posts in the game, arguably his first midly important/informative one:

My opinion on trying to manipulate someone's vote with these contracts only have counter-intuitive motives for town to use them since everyone in the playerlist is smart enough and has the best capability to use their vote well. It only seems for scum-motivation to manipulate a player's vote in this game style.
Then, after Gheb's contract with July is revealed to be exactly that, J does not cry foul on it. In fact, we get posts like this:

The contract between you [July] and Gheb is somewhat similar between the one between myself and him. He has talked to both of us about what he feels are weaknesses in our plays after games. It doesn't really do much of anything with regards to affecting my opinion. Intentions are null at best because there are ways it could go.

Personally, I am more looking at to how Gheb posts in the thread than the contracts that he has made.
And this:

I dislike Circus for his interactions with the contracts with Myself and Gheb. Not so much July because I do agree to the fact that 3 is a bit much for D1. July being more open is great for me in terms of reading but I guess the voting had to be some sort of stipulation to make her follow through with it if she did accept the contract.

TBH, I don't really have an opinion on the July situation because I feel it's just a copy-pasta situation of mine with a different slot.
Emphasis mine. But read the rest.

Obviously my Gheb/J mafia team theory is wrong, but the hypocrisy here is worth noting, as it always has been. J doesn't stick to his previously stated convictions; he lets Gheb get away with the voteblock punishment with hardly a bat of the eye. Why? Because it's fine for July to get her voteblocked because she and J aren't on the same side anyway. J doesn't care about what's best for town. I can't emphasize this enough. In the first quote, he basically says, straight up, "I think that contracts that manipulate a player's ability to vote are exclusively scummy," but then does nothing to Gheb when it is revealed he has done this. No vote. No suspicion. In fact, he jumps to excuse the choice for him. Because it doesn't matter if Gheb is scum, or if July is scum. Anyone having any sort of handicap is good for J because no one else is on his side. Gheb did something anti-town? Fine, keep him around. July might lose her vote? No skin off J's nose, because that's just one less thing he has to worry about.

Let's lynch him. Please.
 
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