• Welcome to Smashboards, the world's largest Super Smash Brothers community! Over 250,000 Smash Bros. fans from around the world have come to discuss these great games in over 19 million posts!

    You are currently viewing our boards as a visitor. Click here to sign up right now and start on your path in the Smash community!

LGBT Smashers

Status
Not open for further replies.

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
7,605
Location
Ohio
NNID
SonicTheHedgedog
3DS FC
3437-3319-6725
Actually not true, the offensive variation developed specifically because of the "homosexual" variation, it in other words, you're calling something stupid because it's somehow tied to homosexuality and homosexuality is stupid.


True that thought process isn't conscious in peoples' minds, but there's still an uncounscious connection, words have power.
while that may be true, the word "gay" to mean "homosexual" developed out of nothing as well. Words are just sounds made by the mouth or symbols made by the hand. they have no meanings save the meanings we give them. Whether or not the etymology of the phrase "that's so gay" has homosexually pejoritive roots or not, the fact is, those roots are, at the most, vestigial now. The current meaning of that phrase in no way reflects anything on homosexuality. I mean, hell, a ****** is a cigarette butt in Britan or a bundle of sticks for burning in older english, but somehow it came to be pejorative to homosexuals. The difference between that word and "gay", however, is the power it holds. To say something is "gay" when you mean it's cheap or stupid, you are saying only that it's cheap or stupid... but the word *** has an incredibly negative connotation because, in modern American English, at least, it has absolutelty no meaning besides it's heavily understood slang meaning which is intended to be nothing but derrogatory towards homosexuals.

That's why I think it's completely reasonable to draw the line there; a person can say "that's so gay" without ever intending to insult or even thinking about homosexuality in any sense, but when someone calls someone else a "***" there is absolutely no other meaning and it's meant to be an insult meaning, even if the person at whom the insult is aimed is NOT gay, the user of the insult suggests that being gay is something bad, something for which one can be insulted.

Anyway, my point is this: all language, but especially the english language, is very dynamic. As we go through the years, the meaning of words will change. Slang words are especially vulnerable to this steady change of meaning; some slang today may become standard vernacular tomorrow, some may change meaning entirely and still some others may become obselete and fade away. Regardless of what the eventual fate or tumultuous history of a word may be, the only meaning we can gain from it is the meaning which, to it, has currently been assigned. With the word in question, "gay," it currently has a few meanings. While the original meaning of "happy" is dated, the current meaning of "homosexual" and the current slang of "cheap or stupid" are just that: current. Both meanings are equally as correct for the word and both are completely different. Because the context is normally fairly discrete for both of them, it's usually very easy to determine which meaning is intended. The fact that the slang meaning is derived from the current meaning is of little importance since the bridge linking those two meanings is, as I said before, vestigial at best. When someone uses pretty much any word we use today, it likely has a history which involves it stemming forth from some other word and changing over time. We don't stop and question the meaning of every word we hear due to the roots from which they were derived. To do so in this particular case is, to me, a severe case of oversensitivity to our GBLT Identity. It's prudent to carefully pick our mountains to die on, and this really shouldn't be one of them. Get out there and crack down on those who legitimately mean us offense, sure, but the use of the phrase "that's so gay" is completely innocuous, so why give us a reputation for being loud and oversensitive just to fight it?
 

Azua

Scourge Cheerleader
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 8, 2001
Messages
14,898
Location
Hate Nirvana
Being so offended by the phrase is only giving ammunition and power to the few people that actually use the phrase to offend you.
 

Yuna-Maria

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
967
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
People that take infractions seriously enough to actually get pissed off over them should leave and probably seek therapy.
Like I said, I wasn't pissed off. I was just confused, and my confusion is my own fault, so I really shouldn't have made a stink about it.


edit: and lol at the eye of sauron. thank you for a new avatar idea
You're very welcome. You should see if you can have it animated so the flames inside it move or whatnot. I dunno if mods can have stuff like that. I know I sure as hell can't.
 

DoH

meleeitonme.tumblr.com
Joined
Jul 1, 2004
Messages
7,618
Location
Washington, DC
it's not that we're afraid or offended, it's that allowing a negative connotation to be ascribed to a word that denotes our existence to continue to be used in vogue is letting our subordination continue, which we shouldn't allow when we (and Hilary Duff) have the power to stop it.
 

Azua

Scourge Cheerleader
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 8, 2001
Messages
14,898
Location
Hate Nirvana
um...join the club?


edit: okay, hedgedawg is saying it better than me so i'll shut up now :p



Xsyven just said it's like the word "lame."
and that is an accurate comparison.
 

Sonic The Hedgedawg

Smash Hero
Joined
Jul 26, 2005
Messages
7,605
Location
Ohio
NNID
SonicTheHedgedog
3DS FC
3437-3319-6725
it's not that we're afraid or offended, it's that allowing a negative connotation to be ascribed to a word that denotes our existence to continue to be used in vogue is letting our subordination continue, which we shouldn't allow when we (and Hilary Duff) have the power to stop it.
while that's a very valip point, the ascription is but slang. I'd like to think we are more than just a word. While it's not ideal to share a word with a negitvely connotaded word, it's what we've got. I'm capable of seeing the clear division between the two and so I really don't see the problem. I'm not suggesting that you can't, I'm merely stating that, despite using the same sequence of letters, it's really two different words, so I don't have a problem. I wouldn't hate it if the word stopped being used in it's slang connotation, but, to be quite honest, I am completely indifferent to the whole issue. I'm not saying I'm ambivalent, no, I'm saying that I couldn't care less. I don't think it's worth fighting for, but I don't think it's worth fighting to protect. If it fizzles out, then it fizzles out; if it sticks around, then it sticks around. I couldn't be more apathetic.

let Hillary Duff, Wanda Sykes and that other girl defend us though... the commercials are funny so I approve.
 

JigglyZelda003

Smash Hero
Joined
Aug 17, 2006
Messages
6,792
Location
Cleveland, OH
Azua is a woman... a beautiful, beautiful woman.
i know and i fixed that, sorry Azua, i mispell aloot lately. also that was in relation to Fox board jokes.

Us giving you a sig infraction does not mean we hate you - It means either we gave you a warning and remembered that we did, or you have enough posts that you should probably know better.
lol @ Sonic mains.

and yes thouse commericals were funny.

does anyone else have Falbe2 and done a gay marriage in it or the first one? i was geting the game and thought about should i do that, or just be female and marry some guy. im still closeted at home mostly so thats why im a bit indecisive, cause anyone could walk in and be like "O.o your married to a man!?!"
 

KingJiggyWiggy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
1,217
Location
I will never tell. :D
while that's a very valip point, the ascription is but slang. I'd like to think we are more than just a word. While it's not ideal to share a word with a negitvely connotaded word, it's what we've got. I'm capable of seeing the clear division between the two and so I really don't see the problem. I'm not suggesting that you can't, I'm merely stating that, despite using the same sequence of letters, it's really two different words, so I don't have a problem. I wouldn't hate it if the word stopped being used in it's slang connotation, but, to be quite honest, I am completely indifferent to the whole issue. I'm not saying I'm ambivalent, no, I'm saying that I couldn't care less. I don't think it's worth fighting for, but I don't think it's worth fighting to protect. If it fizzles out, then it fizzles out; if it sticks around, then it sticks around. I couldn't be more apathetic.

let Hillary Duff, Wanda Sykes and that other girl defend us though... the commercials are funny so I approve.
Hillary does have funny commercials but I don't see it changing anyone's view on the politically correct way of saying gay. Her examples are horrible, and to me, the word should be an offense if used as an offense. I call my friend filthy ***** sometimes, but in a joking way. He calls be spick, but it don't affect me much cuz we're joking.
 

SuperBowser

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
1,331
Location
jolly old england. hohoho.
In the past, I'd have said there's nothing wrong with the word gay and most people understand that it simply means dumb and nothing more. But I think the area you live in makes a pretty big difference.

In my uni the majority of people are religious, and a few are pretty homophobic. I no longer use the word ''gay'' in my everyday conversations because I feel like it might reinforce some people's bigoted views. The connection between homosexuality, gay and bad definitely still exists.

Still, I don't really care when other people use it. It's just personal preference. But I might joke that they're a bigot :chuckle:

''Stop using the ****ing fan. It's gay.''
''Bigot! I was going to stop but now I think I'll just keep hitting you with it!''
<everyone joins in and pushes him into the fan>
''crap. That's not what I meant. NoOoOOOoOoooo''
 

Yuna-Maria

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
967
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Um... no they didn't.

Chris is not necessarily the most accepting person of gay people, but he doesn't ban people for that.
I heard later on that he just kicked all the gay people from the chat room one night. Either way, Nintendo Hub is a pretty crappy forum, and I don't think that anyone in their right mind should ever post there.
 

Bassoonist

Smash Master
Joined
Jun 18, 2003
Messages
4,684
NNID
WoodwindsRock
3DS FC
1032-1351-5240
I heard later on that he just kicked all the gay people from the chat room one night. Either way, Nintendo Hub is a pretty crappy forum, and I don't think that anyone in their right mind should ever post there.
Oh... the chat room. Well you see I don't go there.

I disagree with you. I love the community. I may not care for Chris and some of the other staff and their decisions, but I fit so much better there than I do anywhere else.

On topic (sort of.) without that forum I probably would have never had the strength to tell anybody in the real world that I'm transgendered. It was the first not transgendered forum that I really told it to. They taught me that the general population may not be as bad as I used to think.

And because of that I now have several friends that know and I've even told my sister and re came out to my mom.
 

Yuna-Maria

Smash Ace
Joined
Feb 15, 2008
Messages
967
Location
Atlanta, Georgia
Maybe I'm biased. I can't forgive them for the way they treated Ismar. Combine that with the existence of scum like Chris, Pumpkins, and Poogach, and you have a community that doesn't deserve to exist. That's why I left.
 

KingJiggyWiggy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
1,217
Location
I will never tell. :D
In the past, I'd have said there's nothing wrong with the word gay and most people understand that it simply means dumb and nothing more. But I think the area you live in makes a pretty big difference.

In my uni the majority of people are religious, and a few are pretty homophobic. I no longer use the word ''gay'' in my everyday conversations because I feel like it might reinforce some people's bigoted views. The connection between homosexuality, gay and bad definitely still exists.

Still, I don't really care when other people use it. It's just personal preference. But I might joke that they're a bigot :chuckle:

''Stop using the ****ing fan. It's gay.''
''Bigot! I was going to stop but now I think I'll just keep hitting you with it!''
<everyone joins in and pushes him into the fan>
''crap. That's not what I meant. NoOoOOOoOoooo''
Yes that is true that the location depends. It's actually not that bad compared to other places though. In Japan there seems to be an extreme prejudice against anybody that isn't exactly like everyone else. I even saw a band that titled a song "Kill all the Mixi." I could have translated it incorrectly but it seems they are saying "Kill all Half-breeds." They literally say that, "I don't wanna mixi, kill all mixis."

Now don't even get me started on Africa.
lol
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
:laugh:

I think I might make a blog post later to put everything down on paper and steer discussion to a different thread.

I really do think a lot of you are missing how dangerous a subtle stab like this is going to hurt homosexuals as a group overall, and siding with "Oh you're just being too sensitive."

I'm reminded of the people in Brave New World. :ohwell:
 

Timbers

check me out
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
hipster bay area
I really do think a lot of you are missing how dangerous a subtle stab like this is going to hurt homosexuals as a group overall, and siding with "Oh you're just being too sensitive."
How is it going to hurt those who live a homosexual lifestyle?

"oh **** a gay guy and i called my friends shirt gay clearly theres something wrong here."
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
How is it going to hurt those who live a homosexual lifestyle?

"oh **** a gay guy and i called my friends shirt gay clearly theres something wrong here."
As I explained before, it's a word connotation we should avoid. In stead of, you know, actively encouraging. It's not really hurting anyone specifically though. No one is rocking in a corner because someone called them "gay" today. But it hurts us as a group indirectly.

I'm sure if we gays have a group, such as blacks have the NAACP, they'd condone the use of it in such a manner.

I'm completly indifferent about the phrase said toward/around me, but I've decided not to use it me myself.
 

Azua

Scourge Cheerleader
Premium
BRoomer
Joined
Dec 8, 2001
Messages
14,898
Location
Hate Nirvana
So are you going to stop using "lame" too because it's offensive to people who can't walk?
 

Timbers

check me out
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
hipster bay area
As I explained before, it's a word connotation we should avoid. In stead of, you know, actively encouraging.
Maybe we don't see eye to eye, considering I've called every living and inanimate object gay, homo, or some form of f aggotry at least once, but I still don't see a legitimate reason people should actually stop against it, besides making a few overly sensitive people feel better about themselves. If people honestly believe I'm holding down an entire demographic because of it then tough **** lol

I'm sure if we gays have a group, such as blacks have the NAACP, they'd condone the use of it in such a manner.
there is no public propaganda telling people to stop using 'the N-word.'
 

bored

Smash Ace
Joined
Jul 17, 2007
Messages
924
Please don't say that something is gay, when you mean that something is dumb or stupid. It's insulting.
 

SuperBowser

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 29, 2006
Messages
1,331
Location
jolly old england. hohoho.
So are you going to stop using "lame" too because it's offensive to people who can't walk?
I see what you mean, but there's a difference. Some people still use the word gay (in homosexual context) to mean a bad thing. Sometimes I like to wear my green scarf, and one of my friends comments ''that looks gay.''. People no longer use ''lame'' in that context.

If you don't have friends/speak to people that are homophobic, this is obviously not a problem (in my school I had no problem with saying gay). But not everyone does.

The other side of the coin is would you be comfortable using the word lame around somebody who is lame? Same with the word gay. I'd feel embarassed for ever using ''gay'' around a gay stranger, and therefore I avoid that situation happenning.

edit: I think a better example you could have used is ''********''. And personally, I don't use that word in public :)
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
So are you going to stop using "lame" too because it's offensive to people who can't walk?
Lame's other connotations are archaic at this point. Such as when people said "gay" means "happy."

I think SuperBowser's more modern example "********" is perfect.

Yes, I would never called something "********" around actual mentally disabled people.

If people honestly believe I'm holding down an entire demographic because of it then tough **** lol
Tough **** indeed. Like I said before, it's fine. It's your personal right to say whatever you want, first amendment, free speech, etc.

I'm just hoping you could see why it could be wrong to say something like that.

there is no public propaganda telling people to stop using 'the N-word.'
Both gay and the n-word is treated as any other curse word here at my school.

The NAACP had a "funeral" event for it. http://www.naacp.org/news/press/2007-07-09-2/index.htm
They probably have press releases and other things. They just don't make commercials. :p
 

KingJiggyWiggy

Smash Lord
Joined
Apr 12, 2007
Messages
1,217
Location
I will never tell. :D
Oh great. All that work from 2-Pac was for nothing? So from now on I can't greet my friends with "ni**a?" I'm tired of the political correctness bull ****. It is a well intended idea that only looks good on paper; the ending product is actually a hidden oppressive construct, introduced through media, to punish those who believe otherwise. The term "political correctness" has gone so far, the meaning is so broad, that the talk about it is almost empty.
 

Smooth Criminal

Da Cheef
Joined
Oct 18, 2006
Messages
13,576
Location
Hinckley, Minnesota
NNID
boundless_light
Oh great. All that work from 2-Pac was for nothing? So from now on I can't greet my friends with "ni**a?" I'm tired of the political correctness bull ****. It is a well intended idea that only looks good on paper; the ending product is actually a hidden oppressive construct, introduced through media, to punish those who believe otherwise. The term "political correctness" has gone so far, the meaning is so broad, that the talk about it is almost empty.
Gotta love them special interest groups.

Smooth Criminal
 

deepseadiva

Bodybuilding Magical Girl
Joined
Mar 11, 2008
Messages
8,001
Location
CO
3DS FC
1779-0766-2622
the ending product is actually a hidden oppressive construct, introduced through media, to punish those who believe otherwise.
You understand, ironically, that's what saying "n****" as a black person is...?

I agree with you on being too PC though. Sure it's irritating, and it has been used in the past to promote oversensitivity; but when people use offensive language almost completly unnecessarily, it's, to me as a logical conclusion, wrong.
 

Timbers

check me out
Joined
Jun 18, 2008
Messages
3,377
Location
hipster bay area
Tough **** indeed. Like I said before, it's fine. It's your personal right to say whatever you want, first amendment, free speech, etc.

I'm just hoping you could see why it could be wrong to say something like that.
I praise you for your tolerance to both sides of this matter, I really do, but I still don't see the point of trying to publicly discourage the use of the word. If you don't want to use the word then you shouldn't, but going one step further to try and force everyone else to stop using it as well because it could potentially label a lifestyle is a bit foolish. It's just a word, people are free to use it how they wish.
 
D

Deleted member

Guest
Erm, what does LGBT stand for? I never came in here before, but also never imagined it was what it is.

Okay, so I'm 16, I'm not gay. I'm pretty comfortable in that fact. This thread is very interesting - 'coming out' is obviously a big part of any homosexual's life.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top Bottom