Let's talk.

[Brookman]

Intentional Double post:

I was practicing today and I came across a 2 new things for us to discuss.

#1 - When i was playing against my friend's Marth on Kanto I found out this cool combo. At low percents atop a platorm: Drillshine backwards -> fall-off bair -> utilt -> more bairs or a grab i think.

I believe this can work on spacies and other opponents too. Both those that don't and do fall down frmo the shine. The bair will catch them as they're sliding off the platform. It sets up for some pretty nasty combos.

#2 - I find dtilt's usefulness ridiculously limited. Is it just me?

I've always wanted to do that first one but most people I play with DI the shine, though if they don't most of the time I wavedash off into an up air or another drill to shine/grab/???. I've always practiced platform combos like that, but I hardly ever get to do them. Besides, I think most of the time when I drill someone on a platform I just grab them.

I think Dtilt IS useful, but in ridiculously limited situations, so yea. I remember some match I played vs. kdj he down tilted me once or twice, and someone talked about how good he was at down tilting XD. Wave dash back down tilt is good I guess, when people are approaching with shffl'd aerials. Or it could be used when approaching randomly. Though more often than not just wish that fox had marth's down tilt -.-

 

[Hylian]

Lmao, I have been using this name since before this game came out. It's because I am a zelda fan >_>. I main Samus/Fox/Shiek/Kirby sooo >_>....yeah..

 

[technomancer]

As far as the downtilt goes, I don't really find a situation where the ftilt isn't more consistant and better unless it's against fox at a middle percent. It's a mixup I guess, but I'd rather just knock them away. Grab has similar range, is a bit faster, and more priority as well.

 

[RaynEX]

Lol. If Fox had Marth's dtilt o_0.

Do the splits and tipper you with his boot.

edit: Ty fo dah shiet guuyzz.

 

[Drumma_Boi]

My preference is not to dtilt.The dtilt's usefulness is really limited. Rice from North Florida and my crew made a funny life combo on falcon with dtilt in it.... I will try to remember/ask him and get back to here.

Back on the puff topic tho land behind her shield with a nair then grab.... and like brookman said 40-50% and she is done every life if you are fast enough. Most Jiggs are relatively easy to fight as long as you don't let them shield grab you too much.

Samus is an annoying match up with fox to me. I have played a bunch of samuses.... or samai (plural form ?_?).... and somehow it is usually a close match. This being said about the samai I play that are at least creditable. I am not much on the uair against their cc I do for the grab which never gets me anything. I grab beat uthrow and wait. A samus either bombs and DI's left or right, jumps either left or right, or just nair. If they jump/bomb then go left or right that is what I always wait for right after most samai spam a nair or dair. After I see this I shffl a nair under them and try to get a sequence going. If they fall out more dshl it is. No matter what fox samus seems to be an uphill battle. Anyone else with some ideas??

 

[Brookman]

lasers are more versatile than missiles, samus has a hard time approaching, so by playing the gayser camping style fox you can really avoid all the stupid **** samus does and just add percent and go for kills @ kill percents.

using edge invincibility to shine spike samus out of her up b is three good.

 

[Hylian]

lasers are more versatile than missiles, samus has a hard time approaching, so by playing the gayser camping style fox you can really avoid all the stupid **** samus does and just add percent and go for kills @ kill percents.

using edge invincibility to shine spike samus out of her up b is three good.

This. I keep tell everyone this lol. Laser laser laser vs samus and don't ever stop unless you are killing her. The missles are not that hard to deal with. Fox is outclassed up close vs samus. Samus can CC, can't be punished from her shield, has a really good spotdodge, has a quick wavedash, can combo fox pretty well, can kill fox very easily once off the edge at any damage, has better priority then fox, has way more range, can't be grab combo'ed...

The only reason this match-up is even is because the fox can run away and laser and win without too much of a problem. Pick big stages vs samus, not small ones. Dreamland is your friend.

 

[Brookman]

Pick big stages vs samus, not small ones. Dreamland is your friend.

SAMUS PLAYER MIND GAMES!!

LOL. I'd take stadium over dream land first, but I know what you're saying.

 

[Hylian]

SAMUS PLAYER MIND GAMES!!

LOL. I'd take stadium over dream land first, but I know what you're saying.

Lmao, actually, a lot of samus players love stadium because it is the easiest place to missle spam...It's harder for fox to avoid the missles when you are alternating smash and homing missles and PMC everywhere XD. But the low celing and changing stage don't help samus at all >_>.


</mindgames>

 

[Silent Wolf]

You can camp samus very well on kongo jungle 64. she doesnt rise fast from a jump so camping along the top and bottom platforms while changing it up is good. high ceiling, yeah, but still. and she cant grapple the ledge

 

[RaynEX]

Why is a small level so bad? So doesn't have much room to move on yoshis...+vertical kills.

 

[Brookman]

Why is a small level so bad? So doesn't have much room to move on yoshis...+vertical kills.

Cause you can't run around camping like a ***got as easily on ys.

 

[Hylian]

Why is a small level so bad? So doesn't have much room to move on yoshis...+vertical kills.

And samus can kill fox very easily if he gets hit off the stage, plus samus makes great use of her priority on small stages..Fox can't combo samus very well and uthrow uair doesn't work. Samus can't be hit by waveshine upsmash if she DI's right so how exactly do you plan on killing her off the top. Just becuse she dies at lower %'s there doesn't mean it's easier.

 

[Oskurito]

Best stages against samus are PS, Battlefield(i think she can't grapple the ledge here) and maybe kongo 64. Samus edgeguarding is too good you cannot pick small stages...+ d-smash can set up for edgeguard kills at very low percentages. FD sucks... her recovery is too gay there

 

[Zankoku]

Samus can definitely grapple the ledge on Battlefield. It's a little more limited, sure, but still very much possible.

 

[Shök]

what character do you main ankoku?

 

[Oskurito]

what character do you main ankoku?

For his sig and avatar, I guess he mains sheik and peach

 

[Shök]

then i wonder how ankoku knows so much about fox

 

[RaynEX]

Same way Hylian does I s'pose. Some people just know random ****.

Samus can't be hit by waveshine upsmash if she DI's right so how exactly do you plan on killing her off the top.

What?! I do this all the time, I've never seen it not once work. At least...for me.

I usually pick Marth against Samus anyways. Even a n00b Samus stands a fighting chance against me in tournies. Its actually quite disheartening. Stupid matchup.

 

[Zankoku]

then i wonder how ankoku knows so much about fox

You're wondering how I know so much about Fox, when my last post is about Samus' ability to grapple the ledge on Battlefield?

I play way too many friendlies with SCOTU, and come on, after a year of playing against his Fox, it'd be **** hard not to pick up on at least the basics of Fox.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Yeah you can definitely usmash Samus from waveshine. Even if Samus smash DIs away you can just dash => JC usmash and hit before she can do anything.

 

[Hylian]

Heh, I could of swore if samus smash-DI's away she could pull her shield up first >_>...or up B..Guess not.

 

[Brookman]

To be honest Hylian, I don't think they know for sure. I think it's possible either way, but I've never tried it out.

 

[RaynEX]

Stop confusing me man. o_0

 

[Hylian]

To be honest Hylian, I don't think they know for sure. I think it's possible either way, but I've never tried it out.

Same. I just always thought that because almost every fox I have played usually misses it if they try to waveshine upsmash me. I usually get my shield up even against FastLikeTrees fox who I play with ocassionally.

I really don't know for sure either way though so I'm not inclined to argue. Except for the fact that it seems like you could up B out of it because you get invincibility frames on the first 4 frames of samus's screw attack and that would interupt fox's upsmash >_> I suppose if the Usmash comes out before the first frame of the up-B after smash DI'ed then I'm wrong.

I would like to know for sure though .

Edit: I am also pretty sure that it is impossible for fox to waveshine samus.

And here is a question...Does anyone know if samus gets knocked back further then Marth from fox's shine? If so, then it would be impossible for her to be flatland infinited as well. And if she gets knocked back further then marth then she can't be waveshine-upsmashed either. Does M2K's site have this data? I remember seeing something like this somewhere >_>.

 

[Shai Hulud]

Well I no longer have an AR or else I'd try it and post a video...maybe Scotu can look into it.

 

[RaynEX]

I doubt it. It looks like Marth slides way farther. Even if samus did sdi.

 

[Zankoku]

In order of length:

link
peach
zelda
Captain Falcon
DK
Ganondorf
Sheik
Bowser
Yoshi
Samus
---------- (dash required w/ JC shine)
Mario
Dr. Mario
Ness
Marth
ICs
Luigi

From the Fox advice thread.

 

[Brookman]

I'm pretty sure that I can waveshine marth and mario >__>


Oh yea, with smash DI XD


My waveshines combo on the marios and on marth AND ICs (just kidding about the last one but they're so close)

 

[mikeHAZE]

you can't waveshine marth.... unless he's crouch canceling, or he doesn't know how to shield...

 

[RaynEX]

Fun Fact: one time at a tourny down here. Someone set the singles finals smash discs to a weird dmg ratio...and this guy started waveshining his opponent's Falco.

 

[Oskurito]

you can't waveshine marth.... unless he's crouch canceling, or he doesn't know how to shield...

Yes you can, I've done it

EDIT: only 2 times tho

 

[brawlpro]

its called perfect wave dashing!

 

[Brookman]

Alright kids, let's not continue debating who can or can't be waveshined or who is harder to waveshine. Just waveshine characters like falcon/link/zelda/peach and the easy characters into up smash/grab if you really want to.

 

[RaynEX]

The Fair:

WTH is it good for?

 

[Oskurito]

You don't need to perfect wavedash just a very long one and walk a little afterwards then shine again

 

[brawlpro]

You don't need to perfect wavedash just a very long one and walk a little afterwards then shine again

thats almost the same thing...

 

[RaynEX]

thats almost the same thing...

Man that is the same thing!

Walking doesn't make it any different.

 

[kenny10]

Walking makes a lot of difference.

The only thing fair is really good at doing is making noob Foxes suicide.

 

[Oskurito]

Walking does make a diffence that way I can waveshine Shiek,Samus and Yoshi very easily