pockyD
Smash Legend
there you go
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Let's talk.
- Thread starter Brookman
- Start date
By not playing against a good marth player.
Cort
Apple Head
You can definitely get out of the uptilt, I've had Foxes shoot out of it for whatever reason depending on their DI/what % they were at. I know the CG %s well, I've talked with M2K about it ages ago...
And I remember a post by Mow explaining how to get out of the up tilt. It's useful information for any Fox player against good Marth players. -_-
And I remember a post by Mow explaining how to get out of the up tilt. It's useful information for any Fox player against good Marth players. -_-
Silent Wolf
...
That was Knives.RaseruCort said:
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
lol, yeah, well, i'm not knives, im the guy who was playing you and switching off with mike y sunday night, the guy with the baysian hair cut ^_^
Oh, you're good, however post was in reply to RaynEX.
There you go.
As I said before, no % was indicated.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
MY bad. I should've specified.
D
Deleted member
Guest
Marth can point grab CG 0-15, 16+ he has to dashgrab. Mid 20s he has to pivot grab to 31% yes. If he upthrows you, best way to get out is DI to his front, and when the uptilt hits, DI/smash DI behind him. If you hold towards his front he can regrab. If you DI the upthrow to his back, he can uptilt and if it hits behind him you can't DI it at all, or he can turn around and uptilt to grab. So either way, DIing the throw behind marth is a bad idea. If you DI the upthrow to marth's front at 40%+ ish it makes it hard for him to hit with uptilt as he has to walk a little bit and it's really hard.
<3 cort <3
GJ @ SCC.
brawlpro
Smash Master
^^^that dude knows his ****z^^^
Mew2King
King of the Mews
0-6 you can F Throw without them falling over, but unless they don't DI into you, they can either jab/sidestep/shine you before you regrab them
you can CG fox at 0, so do that usually, CG to 16, and after 16 look for forward DI; if they DI forward above 16% then you have to either walk forward or dash forward in order to regrab them
If you're lazy like Husband, or even me sometimes, you can up tilt after 16% to get guaranteed damage + a possible tech chase, (often with a dash attack where they land cuz they often won't tech)
or you can just down throw F smash tipper them randomly and they usually wont tech
16+ for forward DI
20+ for no DI
28+ for back DI
for up tilts, start them at about 30% or really really close to 30%, is usually best.
If they don't DI, reverse up tilt is recommended usually cuz it's harder for them to DI out of
if they DI forward above 35%, you need to walk forward in order to up tilt them again
35%+ for forward DI
50%+ for back DI
After up tilts, you can either regrab them or do an uair, react properly to the situation
for up throw F smash, 60% is the best time to do it, but 50 and 70 work too, as well as various other %s
if they don't DI at 60%, walk forward slightly, and reverse C-stick F smash tipper them
There are tons more things than what I'm telling you now, however these are the basics that you should all master
FOR FALCO, the %s for no DI are 25%, back DI 31%
for up tilts 42% forward DI 54% back DI
and if falco DIs back at 0% you cant regrab him he will land first
you can CG fox at 0, so do that usually, CG to 16, and after 16 look for forward DI; if they DI forward above 16% then you have to either walk forward or dash forward in order to regrab them
If you're lazy like Husband, or even me sometimes, you can up tilt after 16% to get guaranteed damage + a possible tech chase, (often with a dash attack where they land cuz they often won't tech)
or you can just down throw F smash tipper them randomly and they usually wont tech
16+ for forward DI
20+ for no DI
28+ for back DI
for up tilts, start them at about 30% or really really close to 30%, is usually best.
If they don't DI, reverse up tilt is recommended usually cuz it's harder for them to DI out of
if they DI forward above 35%, you need to walk forward in order to up tilt them again
35%+ for forward DI
50%+ for back DI
After up tilts, you can either regrab them or do an uair, react properly to the situation
for up throw F smash, 60% is the best time to do it, but 50 and 70 work too, as well as various other %s
if they don't DI at 60%, walk forward slightly, and reverse C-stick F smash tipper them
There are tons more things than what I'm telling you now, however these are the basics that you should all master
FOR FALCO, the %s for no DI are 25%, back DI 31%
for up tilts 42% forward DI 54% back DI
and if falco DIs back at 0% you cant regrab him he will land first
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Holy help!
so many things I did not know. M2K you need to post in here more often. Your like an infinite fountain of knowledge for fledgling foxies. 0_0
so many things I did not know. M2K you need to post in here more often. Your like an infinite fountain of knowledge for fledgling foxies. 0_0
That's what pivot grabbing is for. Tell your friends so you aren't stuck in this stupid bubble of scrubdom.
Pivot where? back or forw, it depends? teach me...
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
Run in a direction when they don't di. Tap the opposite direction+grab. Picture your opponent not flying left or right, but just going straight up. Now picture you playing as Marth, weaving left to right or vice versa in an attempt to grab him.
I'm being extra with my description, but thats the general idea.
I'm being extra with my description, but thats the general idea.
brawlpro
Smash Master
We see where the opponent is, and who the opponent is, then do whatever seems right =P
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
what do you mean?
like Firefox recovering?
like Firefox recovering?
Wilhelmsan
Smash Lord
Either fly clear above them, grab the edge from a high angle or hit them with firefox.
If that feels stale, use your illusion.
Every now and then I firefox high out of view and then fastfall randomly to either catch the edge or what not. Risky but amusing.
If that feels stale, use your illusion.
Every now and then I firefox high out of view and then fastfall randomly to either catch the edge or what not. Risky but amusing.
Can you guys be more specific. Like what you (and I mean YOU personally, I'm not looking for advice) do off the edge vs whatever character and whatever that character is doing. Think a little, and let's talk about some firey foxes.
First I try to think what my opponent will do. If they stand still that means they prolly try a cheap d-smash/f-smash edgeguarding, in that case I try to go for a illusion sweetspot or a fire fox sweetspot as well (depending on the distance) but always trying to go for the edge tech>illusion. If they're grabbing the edge I usually screwed already, the only thing I can do is aim above the edge with fire fox and be ready to DI or SDI, that **** of ASDI can save your *** sometimes, let's say a falco will dair you and you aren't close to the edge to tech you just ASDI(DI with c-stick)towards the stage right after he hits you and you're most likely saved even if you happen to be enough close to the edge and still miss the tech, same goes for falcon dair if you can't meteor cancel it, if is another attack like bairs in general you can DI upwards to cut the distance and survive.
Cuno56
Smash Apprentice
Sorry if this derails the topic a bit:
BUT
I was in a tournament not too long ago, and I got knocked out of loser's by a falco. I basically got dthrow CG'd, which doesn't seem right. I started buffering rolls, but those started getting chased. Could I have shined/jabbed/something out of the dthrow garbage?
Additionally...stages against Falco? I went corneria and 3stocked him, but I got seriously lucky as far as Arwing assistance.
BUT
I was in a tournament not too long ago, and I got knocked out of loser's by a falco. I basically got dthrow CG'd, which doesn't seem right. I started buffering rolls, but those started getting chased. Could I have shined/jabbed/something out of the dthrow garbage?
Additionally...stages against Falco? I went corneria and 3stocked him, but I got seriously lucky as far as Arwing assistance.
Cort
Apple Head
Yeah, you can shine out of all of those pseudo-chain grabs, including a buffered roll or sidestep.
This works against Marth's 0-7% forward throw pseudo chain throw and Falco's pseudo chain throw on Fox.
This works against Marth's 0-7% forward throw pseudo chain throw and Falco's pseudo chain throw on Fox.
mikeHAZE
Smash Legend
it works on marths f throw? good ****, thanks cort.
Mew2King
King of the Mews
cort 0-6, at 7% + they fall down
KNOW YOUR STATS, STUPID
<3
KNOW YOUR STATS, STUPID
<3
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
I tend to firefox sweetspot on an angle, and never fly into my opponent. Sometimes I go diagonally up, then DI backwards and FF towards the ledge.
Sometimes I don't even DJ and do a high illusion. : / Its best to keep it random I suppose.
Sometimes I don't even DJ and do a high illusion. : / Its best to keep it random I suppose.
Cort
Apple Head
it ends at 7% <_< that's what I meant. Quiet you.
If they're facing away from the edge, they'll have the option of edgehogging or reverse fsmashing or dsmashing: I'll usually aim high (go for the stage), whilst attempting to go out of range of their smashes (ie go at a higher vertical angle, after firing, control yourself to the other side of them).
I like to trace the edge as much as possible because I am confident in my teching ability. Otherwise it is really charcter dependent and I like to get to the edge fast, but I don't like illusioning for some reason >_>.
I used to be a ton like that (like 4 mo. ago), but then i realized that it's better to not get hit, than to force getting hit and teching. so i don't do that all the time anymore, i often just try to end up near the stage to asdi/ sdi tech it if they do hit me.
You don't like illusioning because it's probably less likely that you'll tech off of one.
Cort
Apple Head
Unless ofcourse, you sweet spot it. In which case, it's one of the best ideas.
Cort
Apple Head
That all depends if the other person predicts that you're going to attempt to sweet spot the edge with the illusion instead of anything else.
After being hit far off, the opponent usually speculates on what you're going to do before deciding how they're going to edgegaurd again, and if you make it blatantly obvious that you're going to illusion then you should be punished with an edge hog, and if you don't sweet spot then they can just edge gaurd you with whatever.
It's all very situational, but sweet spotting the edge with the illusion is a very very vital skill to have when playing Fox.
After being hit far off, the opponent usually speculates on what you're going to do before deciding how they're going to edgegaurd again, and if you make it blatantly obvious that you're going to illusion then you should be punished with an edge hog, and if you don't sweet spot then they can just edge gaurd you with whatever.
It's all very situational, but sweet spotting the edge with the illusion is a very very vital skill to have when playing Fox.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
More than half the times I get edge-guarded is because of illusions to the ledge 
Its all about going straight up then FFalling. actually...its more of a mindgame with Falco because his up+b is shorter. Its easy to react to if you see the fox go straight up : /
Its all about going straight up then FFalling. actually...its more of a mindgame with Falco because his up+b is shorter. Its easy to react to if you see the fox go straight up : /
Cort
Apple Head
Oh yeah, another thing I see way too often that Fox players do concerning recovering:
Up b'ing close to the stage. It's a really dumb habit I see pretty often. It's just shouting "HEY, COME HERE AND HIT ME. I WANT TO DIE!" People should be more conscious of where they are starting their up b. This also works against certain Marth styles (particularly Mew2King or my style against Foxes with Marth, I think they're somewhat similar since M2K steals all my shnoz
) After being tap a'd/countered/what have you, most Foxes will up b as soon as they can, but it's usually much smarter and safer to (I've seen KDJ do this: ) shine first, wait to see what the Marth does, then drop down and up b spaced so that Marth cannot reach you without endangering his own recovery. It will save your stocks, and that's a good idea, no? The shine is fairly optional, but it really throws the Marth off sometimes.
Up b'ing close to the stage. It's a really dumb habit I see pretty often. It's just shouting "HEY, COME HERE AND HIT ME. I WANT TO DIE!" People should be more conscious of where they are starting their up b. This also works against certain Marth styles (particularly Mew2King or my style against Foxes with Marth, I think they're somewhat similar since M2K steals all my shnoz
) After being tap a'd/countered/what have you, most Foxes will up b as soon as they can, but it's usually much smarter and safer to (I've seen KDJ do this: ) shine first, wait to see what the Marth does, then drop down and up b spaced so that Marth cannot reach you without endangering his own recovery. It will save your stocks, and that's a good idea, no? The shine is fairly optional, but it really throws the Marth off sometimes.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
lollll...that makes so much sense. Bless you Cort and your informative posts. You're turning into Mow.
could the marth just not edgehog then? it's a pretty tricky business firefoxing against marth. Does fox's fire outrange marth's ability to drop down and fair/ side b/ up-b you and recover? also, you can tech marth's counter w/ a down towards SDI, and immediately illusion to the edge.
RaynEX
Colonel RTSD
^ tht sounds pretty haxx. Just jam the control stick in that direction after the hit?