Let's discuss Rainbow Cruise(We're done with Brinstar, I guess)!

[Life]

If we allow endless planking with MK banned, people will plank for a couple weeks, then get dair-spiked for a couple weeks, and then problem solved.

 

[-LzR-]

So what exactly makes planking so bad, but pew pewing so legit?

 

[Cassio]

I guess Im confused on what the purpose of this thread is. Is it to discuss its inclusion ideologically or pragmatically? Ideologically Brinstar easily passes most objective measurements in regards to competition because it doesnt reduce the game to broken tactics or come all that close even with MK. And Id be surprised if there wasnt a thread before this already making a strong case for this more or less.

The problem is stagelists are not created using objective measurements or ideology, theyre created comparitively and based on the amount of stage interaction players are willing to put up with, and with this sort of assesment Brinstar and RC fall well beyond the line. Im not saying thats the way it should be done, its just the way it is. Brinstar and RC aside there are several other stages that are banned in spite of their competitive value so trying to convince the community with these sorts of arguments wont cause any headway when its apparent thats not what people care about. Convincing people of Brinstar and RC's merits requires that you convince them to care about those kinds of merits in the first place, and almost certainly will need to coincide with their acceptance of several other stages they strongly dislike.

 

[Akaku94]

^well put, Cassio^

We're trying to argue ideaology and the stages all at once, but we keep getting the response "zomg no gay stages that make you do stuff, FD da bess, ban all that cheap stuff to nerf MK!!!11!1one!1!!"

 

[ぱみゅ]

Switch "FD" with "SV" and call it a day.
Srsly guise.

 

[-LzR-]

I liked it when people never striked SV when I used to main MK, scrooging tw.
It's awesome how the claimed most neutral stage in the game has a borderline broken tactic in it.

 

[Grim Tuesday]

Are there any videos of GaW doing amazing things on Brinstar or is this all speculation?

I'd like to see.

You won't see many. G&Ws usually pick RC instead of Brinstar due to fear of pocket MK (***** G&W there).

 

[Akaku94]

^so now that MK is gone, G&W will pick there more often, correct? If so, I'm looking forward to seeing it; he's not broken there, just good on more stages in general.

 

[DMG]

Without a LGL, no you don't want to fight G&W there would be a waste of time for 80% of the cast.

 

[Tesh]

Without a LGL, no you don't want to fight G&W there would be a waste of time for 80% of the cast.

Oh come on, where does this even happen anymore.

 

[DMG]

Well a lot of people are arguing for a LGL to be taken off, or are talking about stages with LGL out of the picture. There are certain stages that can change from banned to CP depending on how strict you are with ledge usage. Norfair is a good example. Norfair is an incredibly awful stage IF you have no LGL. Norfair is much more reasonable if you have a LGL on. Norfair is at least borderline either way, but yeah.

Brinstar without a LGL I would say no to. Same with Norfair Japes Brinstar Pipes Distant Planet or other stages with clustered ledges. Ledge clusters are a big no no gameplay wise if you're not gonna limit ledge play because they do become too centralizing.

 

[Tesh]

Norfair is still bad with an LGL. Characters like Sonic, Wario and Pit don't need to grab the ledge more than maybe once every 30 seconds IF that.

LGL is here to stay. The vast majority of us don't want what the game can come down to without LGLs.

 

[DMG]

And there are people arguing for a bigger stage list AND LGL to be taken off, and it's just not reasonable for certain stages. That was my point.

 

[Tesh]

No LGL isn't reasonable for any stage. Those people are dumb and only care about ideology.

 

[Steam]

I witnessed 2fast beat Gimr on brinstar.

 

[WindMajor]

Here's the match.

 

[Life]

No LGL isn't reasonable for any stage. Those people are dumb and only care about ideology.

...

If we allow endless planking with MK banned, people will plank for a couple weeks, then get dair-spiked for a couple weeks, and then problem solved.

 

[Tesh]

Those people are dumb

 

[Life]

So... yeah. Anything else to do in this thread?

 

[BSP]

We could keep going back and forth while end the end, people just go with whatever their local scene says or whatever floats their boat.

 

[WindMajor]

Speaking of floating boats...

RAINBOW CRUISE.

 

[Akaku94]

mk 2 good, cheap stage that's also gay and makes you move which is bad. It doesn't tell you who the best player is, only who can abuse the stage better. If we play with RC legal we might as well turn on items. Only Nazis would play with it on. FD da bess.

Ok, did I cover everything?

 

[WindMajor]

You forgot GaW and Wario.

Try again next time Akaku.

 

[Akaku94]

Oh well

But seriously, there's nothing really wrong with the stage: it's completely non-random, and there are no overcentralizing tactics. The only thing going against it is that it moves, which gives the false impression that it's "cheap" or the like.

 

[Player-1]

The only negative aspect of RC is the fact that it's polarizing, and not even by that much if people actually know the stage. Seriously, Falco is pretty awesome on this stage, especially the boat. If the boat was a stage by itself then it'd probably be his best stage or close to it.

 

[WindMajor]

He gets an infinite off the boat portion too.

I think that M2K has shown us that it's easy to get past the 8 minute mark in RC, but his opponents have shown us that it's a lot more difficult than it looks to snag a win (M2K vs. Bizkit comes to mind).

 

[Player-1]

you mean 0 to death.

 

[WindMajor]

Yeah that.

:x

 

[SaveMeJebus]

He gets an infinite off the boat portion too.

I think that M2K has shown us that it's easy to get past the 8 minute mark in RC, but his opponents have shown us that it's a lot more difficult than it looks to snag a win (M2K vs. Bizkit comes to mind).

M2K still won, though

 

[Player-1]

way to qualify his already qualified statement

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Well, it doesn't really matter how difficult he makes it for him to get the win. The win is all that matters

 

[Player-1]

it is when people keep saying "oh mk always wins on RC, it's an auto win, no contest, blah blah blah"

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I haven't seen M2K drop a single game on that stage in the last few years.

 

[WindMajor]

But we've seen countless matches of others getting a little bit too close for comfort.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

I wouldn't say countless, but even then, the point is they still lost

 

[Player-1]

Vinnie has beaten him somewhat recently I've heard.


M2K is like...the best player in the country using the best character on his best stage...of course he's not going to be dropping THAT many games.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

But that's what we base everything off of (that and theorycraft)

ALso, didn't hear anything about that and if he did, it was probably with either G&W or Wario.

 

[Player-1]

Does it matter what character he used?

We don't base things off of outliers

 

[SaveMeJebus]

We base it off of top level play.

It does matter what character he used. If you have to main a character that does well on RC to win on RC, then it it's no different from having to main a character with projectiles on a walk off stage.

 

[Player-1]

According to top level play, ICs and Olimar should be in the number 2 or 3 spot on the tier list, D3 should be abysmally lower, Jiggz, CF, Mario, Samus, PT, and more characters should all be below ganon on the tier list.

I don't see where you're getting at with what characters are used....?