Let's discuss Rainbow Cruise(We're done with Brinstar, I guess)!

[_Kain_]

No this stage favors only characters who can shark, or run away good. Like I said before it's not just MK that's dumb on it. GnW, Wario, and Pit are also dumb cause they can basically plank you and run away just as bad as MK on this stage, especially if they seperate the stage.

Illmatic really? Getting hit by the lava is entirely your fault? That's not even a good response. Strong Bad is right. You can't take into account timers for stages when there are so many variables that can still result in you getting ****ed up by the lava. Like, how can people not see that? I already gave examples in another thread but there is nothing you can do about being hit offstage when the lava is rising, being grabbed when the lava is rising, having unfavorable ground compared to your opponent when the lava is rising, or having to recover when the lava is rising. Not to mention the stupid situations it can put you into depending on if it hits you both

Then people try to complain about the shy guys and have the nerve to say the bubbles have some sort of strategy to it? LMAO, this site is so full of strawmanning it's not even funny. MK banned or not these stages should of never been legal. They promote so many things that people complain about, with or without MK, like planking, stalling, running away, and timing out.

 

[-LzR-]

Yeah, as if getting hit by the lava is a problem either.
It does some damages and practically never kills you, sometimes it even allows you to recover.
Lava is not the argument you can use against the stage, it's sharking. Oh and lava handles that.

 

[z00ted]

Illmatic really? Getting hit by the lava is entirely your fault? That's not even a good response. Strong Bad is right. You can't take into account timers for stages when there are so many variables that can still result in you getting ****ed up by the lava. Like, how can people not see that? I already gave examples in another thread but there is nothing you can do about being hit offstage when the lava is rising, being grabbed when the lava is rising, or having to recover when the lava is rising. Not to mention the stupid situations it can put you into depending on if it hits you both

Then people try to complain about the shy guys and have the nerve to say the bubbles have some sort of strategy to it? LMAO, this site is so full of strawmanning it's not even funny. MK banned or not these stages should of never been legal. They promote so many things that people complain about, with or without MK, like planking, stalling, running away, and timing out.

You KNOW when the lava is coming, plan accordingly.

Worried about trying to recover offstage when it comes? Just camp a platform until it goes away.

Obviously don't get grabbed (if you can do it against Ice Climbers, you can definitely do it for such a small interval of time on Brinstar).

The acid isn't always a bad thing in terms of recovery either.
If you know what time it is coming, certain characters can help it to save them when recovering after getting gimped (the first one that comes to mind is Olimar).

If it hits you both and puts you into a stupid situation, use your reaction time to gain the upperhand. You both got thrown into a random situation because you were stupid enough to get hit by the lava.

Yes, there is strategy in Brinstar.
The stage encourages people who are knowledgeable on it and rewards creativity.

Find me ONE match where a Pit or Game and Watch time someone out on Brinstar.
If anything, it should happen a lot less because of the lava forcing them to reach higher ground.

If you are worried about getting sharked, just go to the top platform of the stage and wait it out. Neutrals are a worse stage to get timed out on.

 

[_Kain_]

Yeah, as if getting hit by the lava is a problem either.
It does some damages and practically never kills you, sometimes it even allows you to recover.
Lava is not the argument you can use against the stage, it's sharking. Oh and lava handles that.

Ok you just didn't really make any points.

Lava doesn't need to kill you to put you into positions to be killed, or at bad position when recovering. It takes away the ledge, so no, generalizing and saying it allows you to recover is completely wrong lmao.

Lava handles sharking? BUT IT ONLY RISES AT 3 TIMES THE WHOLE STAGE NO WAY YOU CAN"T MEMORIZE THAT AND WORK AROUND IT.
^ See what I did thar?

I don't even know what perspective you guys look at this stage. Like...I'm baffled sometimes. Do any of you have vids of any of this ever happening? Or any of you ever doing anything you guys claim too? I'm so confident the answer is no

 

[popsofctown]

You can say "3 times is easy to remember", but high tide isn't the only thing that matters. The low and medium rises matter too. If DK is on the bottom floor of Norfair charging a punch, and his opponent is across stage to his right, he needs to know whether a low tide is coming up soon. If it is coming soon, he's going to need to jump anyway and probably should do so now, because he can't finish charging anyway. If it isn't, he can finish. Not a great example but there are little things like that where things that randomly happen make a difference, even if the hazard doesn't deal damage at all.
If Donkey Kong just worries that low tide might be coming up and cancels charging, is it "his fault" that the random activities of the stage created a disadvantage for him? He doesn't have to hit the acid to be affected.

I'm proban on Brinstar. But I'll go ahead and mark myself as a crazy by saying I'm proban on Halberd too.

 

[z00ted]

Ok you just didn't really make any points.

Lava doesn't need to kill you to put you into positions to be killed, or at bad position when recovering. It takes away the ledge, so no, generalizing and saying it allows you to recover is completely wrong lmao.

Lava handles sharking? BUT IT ONLY RISES AT 3 TIMES THE WHOLE STAGE NO WAY YOU CAN"T MEMORIZE THAT AND WORK AROUND IT.
^ See what I did thar?

I don't even know what perspective you guys look at this stage. Like...I'm baffled sometimes. Do any of you have vids of any of this ever happening? Or any of you ever doing anything you guys claim too? I'm so confident the answer is no

No, because those are just the high tides.
There are medium and low tides too.

Hits from under the stage, which...... helps characters recover.

 

[_Kain_]

You KNOW when the lava is coming, plan accordingly.

Worried about trying to recover offstage when it comes? Just camp a platform until it goes away.

Obviously don't get grabbed (if you can do it against Ice Climbers, you can definitely do it for such a small interval of time on Brinstar).

The acid isn't always a bad thing in terms of recovery either.
If you know what time it is coming, certain characters can help it to save them when recovering after getting gimped (the first one that comes to mind is Olimar).

If it hits you both and puts you into a stupid situation, use your reaction time to gain the upperhand. You both got thrown into a random situation because you were stupid enough to get hit by the lava.

Yes, there is strategy in Brinstar.
The stage encourages people who are knowledgeable on it and rewards creativity.

Find me ONE match where a Pit or Game and Watch time someone out on Brinstar.
If anything, it should happen a lot less because of the lava forcing them to reach higher ground.

If you are worried about getting sharked, just go to the top platform of the stage and wait it out. Neutrals are a worse stage to get timed out on.

Ok let me go on a platform where someone like Wario is underneath me cause I know the lava is coming. RIIIGHT.

Camping platforms puts you in a bad position cause you have to react to people UNDERNEATH YOU.

Me and DK both get sent up. I'm at 120, he's at 90, so he gets to Uair for a free kill cause of lava. So much I could of did about that.

I just watched Krys time out someone on Brinstar the other weekend. All he kept doing was gliding under the stage, breaking the middle platform, and planking.

Except if your losing and your getting sharked, what is standing on the top platform going to do??

EDIT: No one is addresing being put into a bad position by lava. In fact you guys are saying it helps you recover...really? This arguement will go nowhere. It's obvious bias for a ruleset you want if you want to ignore things or give bad reasons for why it's not bad. Just say you want it legal so MK can stay banned and be done with it LMAO

 

[z00ted]

It's a matter of preference.
Pick a better character that can deal with a character being underneath you.
That can happen on literally any stage, the acid doesn't really matter. Jump to a safer position.

And no, I don't want Brinstar legal so MK can be banned.
He should be banned under ANY ruleset.

Pit on Brinstar is just as bad as Pit on Lylat or Battlefield.
The medium tides of the acid force Pit to find higher ground (briefly halting his sharking).

 

[_Kain_]

It's a matter of preference.
Pick a better character that can deal with a character being underneath you.
That can happen on literally any stage.

And no, I don't want Brinstar legal so MK can be banned.
He should be banned under ANY ruleset.

My character can shine...and spike thru stages against chars who can shark...there is nothing you can do when put into certain situations when your opponent is allowed to act faster than you.
It's not a matter of character, just some characters are just as OP as MK on this stage, but people are ignoring it. This can't happen on any stage.

But like you said it's just preference, which I'm pretty sure alot of people in here are showing rather than trying to make legit arguements

 

[Cassio]

Wow at last three pages. It honestly does come down to preference. Im just gonna post this again and pretend the last 3 pages didnt happen.

The thing that bugs me about Brinstar is that in most stage lists it tends to stick out like a sore thumb. I suppose I cant speak for everyone, but I find stages such as Pirate Ship, Jungle Japes, PTAD, LM and maybe even Norfair to be less polarizing than Brinstar. So its really strange to see such a long list of less polarizing stages missing...then suddenly Brinstar. In a ruleset with the aformentioned stages legal I can definitely see the case for Brinstar. Without them Brinstar becomes glaringly more polarizing then all other stages in the stagelist.

Its like:
legal stage
legal stage
.
.
.
legal stage
--------- < common line
illegal stage
illegal stage
.
.
[Rainbow Cruise]
.?
[Brinstar]

Like, if the line were moved past brinstar thats one thing, and I think its fine if people want to do that for their tournaments. But its really weird otherwise to draw the line then include a few stages past it.

 

[John12346]

Uh Cassio, I think the point of this thread is to determine where Brinstar and RC exactly belong in comparison to that line, lol. It's nothing quite set in stone just yet...

Ok let me go on a platform where someone like Wario is underneath me cause I know the lava is coming. RIIIGHT.

Or LEEEFT. You can pick either platform to the side, and take a simple short hop off in the case the acid will rise to Level 9 instead of 8 or 7, and react accordingly without unnecessarily putting yourself in harm's way of the opponent below you.

Plus, if you remember the timeframes at which the acid will reach a critical level(above the ground floor), your opponent's going to have to move out of the way as well, so it's not likely they're going to be busy attacking you, but rather finding a safe area to retreat to temporarily.

And if you're going to say it's gay that the match has to be interrupted like that and it's stupid that we have to keep track of a timer, keep in mind that it only happens 3 times a match. We've had worse offenders in commonly legal stages such as Pokemon Stadium and Delfino, where certain transitions cause plenty of stalling until they wore off.

And there are instances where it's important to watch the timer. A matchup vs. Wario to keep track of the strength of his Waft, or checking to make sure you're not about to get timed out by an opponent, for example...

Me and DK both get sent up. I'm at 120, he's at 90, so he gets to Uair for a free kill cause of lava. So much I could of did about that.

This is completely wrong.

We all know how hitstun cancelling in Brawl works at this point. In any case where a character will be sent into tumble from knockback(in Brinstar's case, it's at any percent, if memory serves), the character can start inputting attacks starting on Frame 26(airdodges for Frame 14).

The percentage of damage you have compared to your opponent will not change the fact that you both may start acting again at the same time, although the amount of knockback you receive may put you in some disadvantageous positions compared to the opponent. Of course, if you're worried about that, you can DI away from the opponent, because Brinstar's acid allows for some very extreme DI angles.

I just watched Krys time out someone on Brinstar the other weekend. All he kept doing was gliding under the stage, breaking the middle platform, and planking.

Except if your losing and your getting sharked, what is standing on the top platform going to do??

I'd like to hear your opinion; which characters do you think fall under the criteria of OP on this stage, and for what reasons?

 

[z00ted]

It's not a matter of character, just some characters are just as OP as MK on this stage, but people are ignoring it.

Hell no, lmao.

But like you said it's just preference, which I'm pretty sure alot of people in here are showing rather than trying to make legit arguements

All stage discussion is preference.
We talk about it because we try to find out what's best for competitive play.

Wow at last three pages. It honestly does come down to preference. Im just gonna post this again and pretend the last 3 pages didnt happen.

The thing that bugs me about Brinstar is that in most stage lists it tends to stick out like a sore thumb. I suppose I cant speak for everyone, but I find stages such as Pirate Ship, Jungle Japes, PTAD, LM and maybe even Norfair to be less polarizing than Brinstar. So its really strange to see such a long list of less polarizing stages missing...then suddenly Brinstar. In a ruleset with the aformentioned stages legal I can definitely see the case for Brinstar. Without them Brinstar becomes glaringly more polarizing then all other stages in the stagelist.

I could say the same exact thing about Final Destination and no platforms.
Why should terrain even matter?

Final Destination benefits Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco, Pikachu, Ice Climbers.
Brinstar benefits Wario, Game and Watch, Peach, Metaknight.

Why keep one and ban the other (while only focusing on terrain)?

I'd like to hear your opinion; which characters do you think fall under the criteria of OP on this stage, and for what reasons?

Thank you for clearing up the platform stuff and the DK punch or whatever.
I'm also really interested on hearing how characters are so "OP" from other members.

 

[Cassio]

The thread isnt about FD, its about Brinstar. If you want to ban FD because you think its more polarizing than JJ or PTAD than there should be a separate thread for that (not being sarcastic if youre serious as well). And its not a question of terrain its about polarization.

Are you really willing to argue that PS, JJ, PTAD, LM and Norfair are all as more polarizing than Brinstar? And if theyre not more polarizing, why should Brinstar be legal while they arent?

 

[_Kain_]

Or LEEEFT. You can pick either platform to the side, and take a simple short hop off in the case the acid will rise to Level 9 instead of 8 or 7, and react accordingly without unnecessarily putting yourself in harm's way of the opponent below you.

Plus, if you remember the timeframes at which the acid will reach a critical level(above the ground floor), your opponent's going to have to move out of the way as well, so it's not likely they're going to be busy attacking you, but rather finding a safe area to retreat to temporarily.

And if you're going to say it's gay that the match has to be interrupted like that and it's stupid that we have to keep track of a timer, keep in mind that it only happens 3 times a match. We've had worse offenders in commonly legal stages such as Pokemon Stadium and Delfino, where certain transitions cause plenty of stalling until they wore off.

And there are instances where it's important to watch the timer. A matchup vs. Wario to keep track of the strength of his Waft, or checking to make sure you're not about to get timed out by an opponent, for example...

Jumping to another platform doesn't get you out of danger if the opponent just follows you or expects you to do that, which comes with platform camping. If the lava is rising all the way your opponent can also try to knock you off into it rather then run away, or the other way around. I'm just saying people make it seem like it's so easy to make the lava a nonfactor or play around it when you really can't. If anyone ever shows me a match where lava or bubbles or anything doesn't effect the match in anyway then maybe I'll believe.

This is completely wrong.

We all know how hitstun cancelling in Brawl works at this point. In any case where a character will be sent into tumble from knockback(in Brinstar's case, it's at any percent, if memory serves), the character can start inputting attacks starting on Frame 26(airdodges for Frame 14).

The percentage of damage you have compared to your opponent will not change the fact that you both may start acting again at the same time, although the amount of knockback you receive may put you in some disadvantageous positions compared to the opponent. Of course, if you're worried about that, you can DI away from the opponent, because Brinstar's acid allows for some very extreme DI angles.

I know that you can AD faster than inputting an attack, but someone underneath you still has the advantage. They can easily bait it out. Like I said you can't just look at the stage from a perspective where you don't take into account what can be done if put into certain situations by your opponents.

I'd like to hear your opinion; which characters do you think fall under the criteria of OP on this stage, and for what reasons?

So far from what I've seen and judging character's attributes. GnW, Wario, and a bit Pit. Seems like they can just get a lead then plank you just as hard as MK, and due to breaking the stage, they can make it ridiculously hard to ever get a lead back.

I could say the same exact thing about Final Destination and no platforms.
Why should terrain even matter?

Final Destination benefits Diddy Kong, Snake, Falco, Pikachu, Ice Climbers.
Brinstar benefits Wario, Game and Watch, Peach, Metaknight.

Why keep one and ban the other (while only focusing on terrain)?

Except you can ban FD then you don't have to worry about it. Characters that are good on Brinstar are also good on RC, which basically makes it more or less picking your poison.

Also you just proved why you want Brinstar to be legal. You think Peach is good on there. She is but not enough to put her in the category you put her in LMAO. She's moreso in the benefit that Ness gets, a little gimmick from having her hitboxes extended. That's it

Overall it just feels like the current ruleset favors a certain group of chars

 

[Tesh]

@Cassio -The layouts of those stages make them far more of an issue than Brinstar. I don't see where you are getting that "line" from, when all of those stages promote camping and/or abuse of hazards far more than Brinstar.

No one is nearly as good at sharking as MK is. The LGL pretty easily stops sharking on Brinstar just as well as Halberd or Delfino (and the lava makes it even worse for the player sharking).

@ Kain, there is no reason it should be easy to break the stage without getting punished. It basically requires you to use dairs/dtilts/dsmashes leaving you wide open from above. MK has tornado which does the job quickly, but you shouldn't let Pit, GnW or Wario do that every 20-30 seconds all game unpunished.

 

[Cassio]

When has camping ever been a criteria for judging a stage? Stalling could be argued but the only stages thats potentially an issue for is JJ.

And Brinstar definitely takes the cake on level interaction, lol. Even norfair and Pirate Ship arguably have less level interaction than Brinstar. But Im curious why you actually think this for each particular stage you think its an issue for vs Brinstar. The thing that sets Brinstar apart imo is that theres way more and better forewarning on stage interaction/hazards in most other levels.

 

[Tesh]

^I'm not sure if we should discuss it here, I don't want to derail this thread, since I hope it might lead somewhere.

The short answer is that people dislike Brinstar (and RC) because of sharking (overly safe approach and pressure), the hazard, and the layout giving way to air camping . The other stage suffer from the same issues and its worse.

 

[z00ted]

The thread isnt about FD, its about Brinstar. If you want to ban FD because you think its more polarizing than JJ or PTAD than there should be a separate thread for that (not being sarcastic if youre serious as well). And its not a question of terrain its about polarization.

Are you really willing to argue that PS, JJ, PTAD, LM and Norfair are all as more polarizing than Brinstar? And if theyre not more polarizing, why should Brinstar be legal while they arent?

I didn't bring up PS, JJ, PTAD, or LM.
Those are all banned stages, and are generally accepted as so.
I brought up Final Destination because it's considered legal everywhere.

Except you can ban FD then you don't have to worry about it. Characters that are good on Brinstar are also good on RC, which basically makes it more or less picking your poison.

Also you just proved why you want Brinstar to be legal. You think Peach is good on there. She is but not enough to put her in the category you put her in LMAO. She's moreso in the benefit that Ness gets, a little gimmick from having her hitboxes extended. That's it

Overall it just feels like the current ruleset favors a certain group of chars

If I ban FD, my opponent still has some pretty amazing options as far as where to counterpick me to. Halberd, Pokemon Stadium (both one and two), and Smashville are all ones that come to mind.

Should we ban Halberd because it's "picking your poison" against Snake?
I mean, they both give him an unfair advantage, right?

We keep stages because of their competitive value, not because one or two here and there buffs a specific character too well (Metaknight is broken everywhere).

It's extremely immature to assume that "because I main Peach" I want Brinstar legal.
I want Halberd legal too, as well as Final Destination and PS2 - mind explaining that?

Don't tell me how my character benefits from a stage unless you've played me there or main the character.

Peach gets more of a buff than you think.

 

[etecoon]

When has camping ever been a criteria for judging a stage? Stalling could be argued but the only stages thats potentially an issue for is JJ.

why would the standard for a stage ban be "unbeatable stalling" when we don't even have that high of a standard for banning a character? inconsistency much?

 

[z00ted]

Overall it just feels like the current ruleset favors a certain group of chars

Yes it does.

Aside from Metaknight, the current ruleset favors ALL higher tiered characters.
Taking away Rainbow Cruise and Brinstar would just make it far more unbalanced than it has to be.

 

[John12346]

Jumping to another platform doesn't get you out of danger if the opponent just follows you or expects you to do that, which comes with platform camping. If the lava is rising all the way your opponent can also try to knock you off into it rather then run away, or the other way around. I'm just saying people make it seem like it's so easy to make the lava a nonfactor or play around it when you really can't. If anyone ever shows me a match where lava or bubbles or anything doesn't effect the match in anyway then maybe I'll believe.

I think what's important to remember is that a lot of people aren't really educated in how the acid rises and falls in regards to the timer.

If people know the few specific times when the acid is going to end up rising above the stage, it adds a new factor of strategy to the stage. You can opt to play chicken with your opponent by waiting for the last second to get out of the way, or you could, of course, try to find some safe ground, or maybe you could try to quickly hit your opponent with something to ensure they get caught by the acid.

I feel the reason why most people have so much issue with the acid is that they don't understand the schedule it runs on, or that it even runs on a schedule at all. Given the proper education about the stage(something I'm going to probably end up trying to do if we ever come to a conclusion on Brinstar), it opens up a circuit of player-hazard strategies similar to what we experience on Halberd, because at that point, the hazards are predictable, easy to react to, and both players have the chance to turn it around to work in their favor.

And of course, at that point, if you do get hit by the acid knowing all of this, then you should rightfully deserve to take 15% damage and be put into an awkward position above your opponent.

I know that you can AD faster than inputting an attack, but someone underneath you still has the advantage. They can easily bait it out. Like I said you can't just look at the stage from a perspective where you don't take into account what can be done if put into certain situations by your opponents.

Most players do have time to react to the acid before it hits them even if they can't escape in time, so with that in mind, a player who feels threatened can easily perform some of the heavy DI enabled by the acid. It allows them to escape their opponent, AND it decreases the overall height gained from the knockback to lessen the threat of an attack from below. Not bad.

Although, I will admit matches do tend to become pretty hectic when both players do not realize the acid in time to avoid it, but there are some legitimate counter-measures against it, I feel. You do have to be pretty fast with your fingers to DI, but that's all part of the game, right?

 

[Cassio]

I didn't bring up PS, JJ, PTAD, or LM.
Those are all banned stages, and are generally accepted as so.
I brought up Final Destination because it's considered legal everywhere.

I brought up those stages because its the standard for where banned stages lie. Feel free to toss FD in there too but Im not arguing about FD one way or the other, if for some reason FD were somehow determined to be as polarizing as PS, JJ, and PTAD then of course it should be banned. But right now its about Brinstar.

I'm not sure if we should discuss it here, I don't want to derail this thread, since I hope it might lead somewhere.

The short answer is that people dislike Brinstar (and RC) because of sharking (overly safe approach and pressure), the hazard, and the layout giving way to air camping . The other stage suffer from the same issues and its worse.

Discussing stage mechanics without comparison doesnt lead anywhere anyways imo. Stage legality in practice is far from something objective. Looking at borderline legal and illegal stages and determining where Brinstar lies amongst them can give an idea on as to where it should be headed.

People tolerate sharking, hazards, and air camping on several other stages where the tactic is still powerful. Id argue that the reason people dislike Brinstar (fair assessment or not) is because its viewed as random, and more than anything the smash community hates outcomes they feel are out of their control.

 

[z00ted]

The thing is, the smash community is misinformed and that's probably why they feel as if everything is out of their control.

There's a lot of variety on Brinstar, but everything is in your control.
You just have to learn the stage.

 

[Cassio]

I dont disagree with you. My point is if people arent willing to understand the super predictable klap trap, or bother to put up with stage hazards that give you several full seconds of massive animations beforehand (norfair and pirate ship); I dont think were going to see the community suddenly willing to put up with some of the nuances with lavas multi-level timer.

Idealistically I agree. In general I think all of those stages are more than capable of being legal and would personally advocate for them to be allowable in rulesets. Pragmatically I dont see the community as able to accept Brinstar unless theyre able to accept some of the more predictable stages first. Instead it just pisses everyone off when they see outliers like Brinstar that they commonly compare to be as bad as or worse than other banned stages. So its hard for me to see Brinstar being commonly accepted unless these other stages can reach acceptance as well.

Overall I really dont care what stagelist is used. From the perspective of a pika main it hardly affects me, but I think its best to allow people to do what they prefer. However one thing I am a bit critical of is consistency.

 

[-LzR-]

Norfair, JJ and PTAD are stages with far worse problems than hazards. The 2 former allow for some extreme camping positions while PTAD lacks ledges 95% of the time and includes hazards way too powerful.

Brinstar doesn't come close to those.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Norfair, JJ and PTAD are stages with far worse problems than hazards. The 2 former allow for some extreme camping positions while PTAD lacks ledges 95% of the time and includes hazards way too powerful.

Brinstar doesn't come close to those.

Brinstar also allows for some extreme camping positions. Pretty much any character can crouch and force most characters with projectiles to approach. They can also break the middle of the stage and force their opponents to try to reach them on the other side. The acid isn't 100% predictable and it can cost you the game since matches usually end up going to time on that stage.

 

[z00ted]

Most matches on Brinstar do not end up going to time.....

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Most matches on Brinstar do not end up going to time.....

They either go to time or the player that is behind gets desperate and approaches which ends up with him getting killed. The right side of the stage gives characters way too much of an advantage.

Anyone have any videos of a player who knows how to correctly play on this stage?

 

[Luigi player]

I love this thread.

First off I want to note that the acid is not random for this stage. It runs on a set timer with a bit of variance. It also doesn't kill until 150%+ on most characters fresh. You can also react accordingly similar to Halberd. The stage attacking you is not a problem, it's you being a bad player.

I am 110% for Brinstar (with Metaknight banned).

 

[SaveMeJebus]

does Acid even stale?

 

[z00ted]

Some of you people posting one liners should read through the entire thread before posting.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Well, does anyone have any videos of high level play on Brinstar?

 

[Supreme Dirt]

Well, does anyone have any videos of high level play on Brinstar?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pjGbszw_Rxg

5:30

You'll note the aggressive, "I will get in and **** you up" play, working.

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Is this the best example? If it is, then it seems like not even top level players can avoid getting hit by the acid

 

[zmx]

Only going to bring up MK because he is relevant and related to the issue. I do not think you can fully discuss it without MK.

Brinstar and RC should be banned and MK should be legal from what I have gathered. The arguments for this have been given dozens of times, I hope I do not have to repeat them in full.

But it makes sense to ban two controversial stages instead of an entire character. Just looking at it from a logical standpoint if we were to take stages over characters than other stages such as bridge of elden should be legal as well. Just ban DDD and any other character with potential walkoffs.

Now one might argue that MK is broken even without RC and Brinstar banned. But the two regions in the world where we have sufficient data for this scenario are Europe and Japan. And notice that MK is not over dominant in either region.

In other words, the actual evidence instead of what ifs/theory crafting with no basis points to the fact that RC, brinstar and other over polarizing stages are one of the true problems.

Along with a poor mentality in general but that is a separate topic.

 

[Life]

A lot of characters are broken with flat walkoffs--and by that, I mean pretty much all of them. It's called walkoff camping and it simplifies the game too much so we ban the stages with it. Even discounting that, you have to ban a lot of characters just to get a couple walkoff stages. (Although one, Distant Planet, does not have a walkoff camping problem due to being on a slope, plus pellets and rain--but that's something else entirely.)

As for the actual subject at hand, Europe doesn't really have many good MKs (Orion maybe?) and Japan does a lot more than just banning RC/Brinstar to keep MK in line: scrooging rule, air time rule, banning Frigate (they keep Delfino though), etc. so the comparison isn't exactly... exact.

 

[Dr. Tuen]

The acid should be considered pseudo-random. It has distinct high-rise times, but there is variation on those times. There are also mid and low rises that happen at certain points that have not yet been characterized. Even if those each had 3 time ranges which fell between the high rises, you'd have 9 points of time to memorize along with the variation to consider. Nobody is going to keep that straight for a whole match and keep themselves from getting hurt.

Anyways, I think that a stage that actively damages players (3rd party interactions) shouldn't be legal in play. That does, in fact, extend to Halberd.

 

[Life]

Can you justify that?

Also, does anyone actively practice on Brinstar? Because I imagine you'd sort of acquire an instinct for when the acid can rise if you spent enough time playing on it...

 

[SaveMeJebus]

Anyways, I think that a stage that actively damages players (3rd party interactions) shouldn't be legal in play. That does, in fact, extend to Halberd.

I agree with this

 

[Player-1]

tell me when RC is being discussed