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What's your point?
Then they should show me a video of a player who plays Brinstar at a high/top level
I'm almost sure that Raziek's thread makes note of all the times where the acid rises.
That's their fault then for not keeping track of the acid, while putting themselves in the risk of getting punished. Like, it's not even difficult, you just have to practice the stage. The skill can be developed in no time, people just haven't put the effort into it.
What is so wrong with the act of getting hit by a hazard that makes it unacceptable for competitive play?
Jebus, players are going to get hit by the acid no matter what. There's no escaping it in the long run. You will most likely never find a video where nobody gets hit by the acid, because good players are going to actively be trying to use the acid to their advantage (which includes forcing their opponent into the acid). Getting hit by the acid is not a bad thing at all. In fact, not getting hit by the acid doesn't mean that you're playing the level right. The acid is there to add an extra element to combat, just like any other stage element in Brawl, and it's only normal that the players use that extra element to their advantage. The developers WANT you to play a match while incorporating the acid into your strategy. It's nice that people want to play safe, but if nobody touches the acid, then that means that neither player made full use of the stage's tools.
I wasn't talking about that. I'm talking about getting punished by the acid.
If this was true, then explain to me why the top character isn't a ground based character.yes it does. It heavily favors ground based characters due to the neutral stage list.
Characters getting punished for their lag by the acid. Sometimes you have nowhere to go but down as the lava risesI don't understand?
Because he is both.
Just keep in mind that, since the acid only rises above the stage 3 times a match, any other time the acid rises, you can just immediately and safely assume the acid isn't going to come up to the stage to interfere with the game.
Ah, you should try it out yourself, because you get some pretty large DI angles from the knockback gives you. I'd say you can change the angle from straight up to around 45 degrees in either direction, so it can be pretty challenging for the opponent to keep up with your position. Plus, if your damage is high enough, and your opponent is hounding you at the ledge, you can go into the acid to be launched pretty damn high above your opponent, and it's kind of hard for them to chase you from there, although you're still going to have to deal with landing safely.
Well, these are more CP qualities over anything else. Slanted stages aren't unheard of, such as Lylat Cruise and Yoshi's Island, and I'm pretty sure stages where you can manually model the terrain don't really fall under ban criteria, either.
...you can airdodge on Frame 14 after being hit by the acid, and can perform attacks starting on Frame 26... there's no way the opponent's going to catch up with the knockback you've received from the acid before you can start acting again.
Sometimes you have nowhere to go but down just as Marth charges his tipper FSmash. It's your own fault you got to that position in the first place, you shouldn't have put yourself there to begin with.
I think you missed my point, but w/e.
The difference is that one is an opponent and one is a stage. Not only that, but it's something that isn't 100% predictable.
And that's why we get rid of these stages. I would rather have a more balanced character list than a huge stage list.Because he's just that much better. On a fair stage list he'd be ludicrous.
If it was just you vs. the stage or you vs. the opponent then that would be fine, but it's not. Not only do you have to worry about the opponent, but you also have to worry about this semi-random acid hitting you. If it's so easy to avoid the acid, why is it that in every video I see with that stage being played, someone gets hit by the acid (not intentionally).
We've hit our first circle:
I also want to add that getting hit by the acid is not unfair because both players are at an equal opportunity to get hit by the lava. It's all about who takes advantage of the situation the best.
Because then it's no longer about who can beat the other player, but rather who can beat the other player while avoiding the stage hazards. If that's how it's meant to be played, then lets ban every stage except Brinstar, Halberd, PATD, GGs,and Norfair. If not, then take out every stage with stage hazards.
That's 14% that you would't get on every other stage that doesn't have these stage hazards. If you are trying to fight your opponent, why would you want the stage to interfere?
Okay, um...
There's nothing wrong with it. Just like there's nothing wrong with playing with items. I don't see how that has anything to do with anything. Until we have a proper definition of what competitive is, all we are going to have are opinions. If you want player vs player vs. stage, ban all static stages. If you want Player vs. player, ban all stages with stage hazards.
It's not that easy since there is no way of always knowing whats going to happen next
Except we do know, because given the facts we know about the stage, the best way to go about handling the acid would be to watch for the screen shake around the times when the acid is going to rise to a Level of 7, 8, or 9, which means you know when the acid rises at that time, you have to move out of the way. From there, all you need to do is watch the background to approximate when the acid will reach your position, and then act appropriately to it, as well as your opponent's movements.
No stage in Brawl offers completly unavoidable situations.
It's different when you have an opponent though. You have to worry about both the stage and the opponent at once and sometimes, you're either going to get hit by one or the other (or both). That's what I mean by there's no way of knowing what will happen next. A bunch of things can go wrong on stages with hazards. You could get unlucky and have the acid rise as you are recovering.
Yes. This is how many people in this community think. You can't ban Peach or G&W or Luigi just because they're random; they aren't good enough to warrant it and players main a character.
Ness and Lucas won't get killed by the ghost if they recover directly under it. Besides, this only effects two characters.
Read the bolded. At the end, you presented playing a game of "who can beat the other player while avoiding the stage hazards" as a problem, yet, when I asked you why it was a problem to you, you said there's nothing wrong with it, effectively invalidating it as a concern. If there's nothing wrong with playing a game of "who can beat the other player while avoiding the stage hazards", then there's nothing wrong with any of the bolded quotes above, because all of your concerns invalidate each other from the ground up. My question still stands then: What is so wrong with the act of getting hit by a hazard that makes it unacceptable for competitive play?
...then lead it up to this in your last post...
The direction that I'm going in with this is exactly the same direction that Kyo took you to. There is no such thing as Player vs. Player combat in Brawl. It's always going to be Player vs. Player vs. Stage (or Player vs. Player on a given Stage, as Kyo put it). So in other words, if the game is meant to be played PvPvS (which it is, btw), then we should legalize Brinstar, Halberd, PTAD, GGs, and Norfair just like you said. However, we don't have to ban the static stages like you said we should because in reality, they don't pertain to the PvP group. They're in the PvPvS group just like Brinstar, just with less focus on the stage aspect.
