Le Lazy Lurking Link's Listen/Laugh Lounge ♪~ (^ 。^=)

[Thunder Of Zeus]

So I've been watching a few of my old vids of my Link and I'm lsuprised to see how good I was back then. I've gotten alot worse, I really don't understand how to use Link now.

Okay I think I've figured it out, back then I didn't focus much on reading and just played Link with 'feeling'. Which meant my reading skills were quite bad, and I guess ever since I've started reading my opponents that's when I've become worse as a player. So hopefully in time my reading skills will be good and I'll get that 'feeling' with Link again.

Cross my fingers, hope to die.

I'm just not good with Link. I use him as a casual tertiary, but Marth is the closest thing I have to a tournament viable character, and Sheik is getting there.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

While I am better with Lucario, only because he was my main since the game came out, but my Link is getting better something I know is a good sign.

Also I have wifi :D

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

While I am better with Lucario, only because he was my main since the game came out, but my Link is getting better something I know is a good sign.

Also I have wifi :D

We should Wi-Fi more. Last I remember, our connection wasn't bad.

 

[Legan]

So I've been watching a few of my old vids of my Link and I'm lsuprised to see how good I was back then. I've gotten alot worse, I really don't understand how to use Link now.

Okay I think I've figured it out, back then I didn't focus much on reading and just played Link with 'feeling'. Which meant my reading skills were quite bad, and I guess ever since I've started reading my opponents that's when I've become worse as a player. So hopefully in time my reading skills will be good and I'll get that 'feeling' with Link again.

"Feeling" and "Reading" go hand & hand scabe. When you play good players you cant just decide to read their actions. You have to feel what links best option at the spur of the moment is. You should be thinking more along the lines, should I approach here? or should I run. More often than not itll end up with you running lol. Youll get your game back though, play alot of wifi, believe it or not thats where I started off and i still play alot of it. It helps more than youll ever know. You also wont be able to read your opponents, if you dont fully understand the character you're facing and the options they have. So play alot of the roster. Even when you lose matches, save the replays and go back over them and point out to yourself what you did wrong in certain situations and what they did to counter your moves. Then youl know what to correct the next time.

Sorry for wall of text, i kinda miss swf link boards.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

"Feeling" and "Reading" go hand & hand scabe. When you play good players you cant just decide to read their actions. You have to feel what links best option at the spur of the moment is. You should be thinking more along the lines, should I approach here? or should I run. More often than not itll end up with you running lol. Youll get your game back though, play alot of wifi, believe it or not thats where I started off and i still play alot of it. It helps more than youll ever know. You also wont be able to read your opponents, if you dont fully understand the character you're facing and the options they have. So play alot of the roster. Even when you lose matches, save the replays and go back over them and point out to yourself what you did wrong in certain situations and what they did to counter your moves. Then youl know what to correct the next time.

Sorry for wall of text, i kinda miss swf link boards.

That's definitely something I need to work on. I never really think about what they might do; I'm always too focused on what I'm trying to do.

If you're going to be posting here often, please stop by our Introductions Thread. And if you still do some Wi-Fi and want to be included in our power rankings and other Wi-Fi events, you can put up your information in the Wi-Fi Thread. We'd love to have you as a valuable part of this community.

 

[Huggles828]

WOAH! It's Legan! How's it going? I'd certainly love to take you on on wifi sometime when I'm a little less busy.

I agree with Legan, playing a lot of characters helps a lot I think, because beside from being able to get a good grasp on a matchup, you learn how they work better, plus you can work on some things that your character isn't good at. For example, my recovery, DI, and spotdodge games have improved as every character thanks to being forced to get good at it as Link, and I've gotten better at reading opponents, faking people out and looking for openings through Craptain Falcon and Oldmanondorf. And I also agree about the reading and feeling thing. The more you can do it all subconsciously the better off you are since that allows you to actively concentrate on formulating a strategy.

And oh yeah, Red Ryu, didn't you want to wifi for practice for your upcoming tournament? I can play a lot of characters pretty well if you have any in particular you're looking for practice against, although if it's the MLG competition I'm not sure how much help I'd be.
EDIT: I should probably list my characters I play in order of best to worst.

Mains

Secondaries

Tertiaries

I'll play anyone else except these characters.

Characters I suck balls at

(Fox = most impossible character to play ever. HOW DO HIS MOVES WORK?!)
Characters I absolutely will not play because I hate them

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

If you need practice for a tournament, I'd probably be able to help too. I used to play ROB and Falco, and I have a decent Marth you can work against. My Sheik is coming along too.

 

[Scabe]

Woah some great advice from the man himself. I think it'll be good to try out some new characters.

 

[Ryos4]

I also play a bunch of characters, however, it usually doesn't help me with match ups. I find the way i play is usually vastly different from how the average player will play the character. But i guess it does help to know what kind of tricks the character can do. Though its usually easy enough to find out about them through either just playing them or research through youtube or just wandering around forums such as these.

But i do believe it does help to improve you're game play when using different characters. I like using low tiers for that point though. Characters who lack the ability to naturally do things easily, makes you have to learn how to play smarter in order to compensate for the characters short comings. Transferring over your newly gained experience to a character that doesn't have those restrictions. Just makes you an overall better player.

I was also wondering about what other people think about playing without really using smashes, for the most part. I know alot of people like using smashes because they do more damage in a single hit then other attacks, thus making punishing with smashes overall more appealing. But i find that using smashes tends to leave me more open and predictable. Thus making it easier for your opponents to land killing blows as well. Also reducing your knock back for each successive hit. The time i think smashes should start coming out is either when your opponent has reached possibly killing%, for using in tandem with AT's, or if its the only thing that can hit at the moment.

Even with all that said i still wonder if the restrictions i set on myself are doing more harm then help. Any thoughts on that?

 

[Scabe]

A couple of my friends gave some advice where switching to a character for a while makes you forget all your bad habits with your main. So that's why you see people improving even though they haven't touched the game in weeks.

@Ryos: I gave that a shot where I focused on not using any smash attacks until kill percents. I think Smash attacks should be used when you have enough time to punish something. Smash attacks deal alot of percentage, so I guess their good for early percents damage racking as well.

I guess, if you find that smash attacks aren't working for punishing something, try tilts. I find that when I try to predict someone who rolls behind me with a smash attack and they don't roll I leave myself open for them to attack.

 

[Huggles828]

I really don't use smashes that much, but it depends on the character. Honestly, I don't think Link can afford the lag spamming his smashes, and he has other killing moves that are often better in particular situations. I mostly use dsmash either out of shield, for jab cancelling, or for killing. I mostly use up smash for mortar sliding, and rarely through shield cancelling (tap jump off makes it difficult though). I use fsmash mostly as a kill move after a setup or occasionally after crazy shenanigans with Link's slippery boots (retreating zair ->craq walk -> Cstick fsmash. He slips and slides the whole way and it's hard for the opponent to tell where he's gonna stop).

 

[Ryos4]

I usually like to punish people and keep them close to do more damage. In theory weaker and quicker attacks can do more damage then one smash that usually tends to lag too long to follow up and knocks people too far. But i guess with Link you want your space.

I really shouldnt be speaking in terms of Link. Since i myself just love to punish with grabs, which im my opinion the stupidest idea ever. Considering how open a grab leaves you and it does very little damage. Its probably a bad habit i picked up from playing Pit, which weirdly enough doesn't have anything to do with grabs. Its all about putting people in the air above me allowing Pit to rack up damage really easy, especially when people are above you. With Link it kinda gives you an advantage, people do stupid stuff when they are above the stage. But overally screws me against people who generally want to be in the air anyway since Link lacks the advantage that Pit has.

I think my hesitation against using alot of smashes comes from Toon Link, who's smashes serve no purpose except for doing more damage and knock back. Unlike Link's who gives more range, more speed, more hit boxes and may have many uses in terms of ATs.

Which is also another reason i dont like playing high tier characters. Picking up bad habits only they can actually make use of to the fullest. Playing alot of characters does have its disadvantages in terms of picking up bad habits.

 

[Scabe]

Actually your right about the smash attacks at low percents. They aren't good for damage racking seeing as it still leaves you open. My bad. Ryos is so smart

 

[Rizen]

@ Legan:
That's good advice. You and the other veteran players like Deva and ArkiveZero should create a private Link social group and work out a guide based on your experience. The larger part of what we talk about on the boards is just reinventing what you pros already know. If you have time.

----
Link was by far my best character, I never played any others vs people except a few random picks.
----
If smashing's the best option go for it. Don't sub in a worse move. Except Utilt (faster ending Usmash), Link's tilts serve a different purpose and don't take the place of smashes. Jab's more like Fsmash than Ftilt in speed and attack area.

 

[#HBC | Red Ryu]

I'm home and have Wifi now, so I can practice. ^_^

Although I got 25th out of 25 in singles and 13th out of 17 in low tier at the tournament I went to.

I'm very sad and it was disheartening. Still all it means is I have to practice more, and more I place bad the more and more I just wanna use Lucario at MLG instead, I'm staying away from the temptation for now.

After MLG I'll be trying to go back and forth between Link and Lucario but for now I focus on Link.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

I'm home and have Wifi now, so I can practice. ^_^

Although I got 25th out of 25 in singles and 13th out of 17 in low tier at the tournament I went to.

I'm very sad and it was disheartening. Still all it means is I have to practice more, and more I place bad the more and more I just wanna use Lucario at MLG instead, I'm staying away from the temptation for now.

After MLG I'll be trying to go back and forth between Link and Lucario but for now I focus on Link.

I'll help you out when I can use my Wii again.

 

[Scabe]

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This is so catchy.

 

[ndayday]

I knew it was a bad idea to check the Link boards tonight.


But my gosh.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

I knew it was a bad idea to check the Link boards tonight.


But my gosh.

It's always a good idea to check the Link Boards

 

[swordsaint]

It's always a good idea to check the Link Boards

I agree.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

Just throwing this out there, because I believe we have a few new members since my last announcement.

We would love for you to submit a short bio telling us anything you'd like us to know about yourself in the Introductions Thread! Let's keep our list growing!

It would be equally as amazing if you would supply us with your friend code and general location (IE: East Coast, Australia, Canada) at the Link Online thread. This is only if you have Wi-Fi, of course.

And feel free to PM me with any questions or comments that you have about anything that you need. I'm sure Scabe or any member of the Link Back Room would make themselves available as well. I think I speak for all of us when I say that we would be more than happy to hear whatever it is that you have to say.

 

[MooseLink93]

hey guys im new here hope i can help and add me on wifi i left my code in the intro thread so yea

 

[Scabe]

Hooray for more Legan vids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eF63T80Igk

I find it funny that Link's seem to be good friends with DK's, Legan has Ripple, KirinBlaze has Will and I have Silfa.

I'm starting to hate the DK vs Link matchup, I've been getting ***** alot whenever I play Silfa and he doesn't even try.

 

[Huggles828]

Bah, Legan only lost because Scar and the rest of the Lion King crew made sure DK would Be Prepared.

DK vs. Link is one of those matchups where I play both charaters, I've seen pros play this matchup and watched DK win decisively, I know DK is an incredible character (I think he's easily top 10 if Dedede weren't in the game) and even though I know he beats the pants off Link, it still seems so strange to me that he can do it so effortlessly.

 

[Ryos4]

Well DK is pretty good. Strong, long range, Super armor, and like 3 ways to spike makes him pretty dangerous. I use to play against a DK alot, every time it was always a struggle to finish him off and avoid a bunch of moves that could easily kill me.

 

[Scabe]

Here's the second match of Legan vs Ripple: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-hCpi9PpFg

I use to do pretty well against DK but I guess once he learns all your tricks and that **** cargo throw offstage making it hard to recover your screwed

Ryos what's the Hawaii like? Is there a smash scene there?

 

[Ryos4]

A little bit on Oahu, but any of the other islands seems kinda of dead. They have monthly tournaments but for the most part it seems the majority of the people here rather play melee instead of brawl. I've long since dropped out of the offline scene being not a fan of Melee. It takes too much effort to try and get people to play brawl weekly or w/e.

All of the other people i find to play are completely horrible and i can screw around the entire match and pull off ridiculous combos and kills. Then people dont wanna play anymore. So yeah...

However the way hawaii Brawlers play is pretty amazing for the most part. They try to make kills as crazy and epic as possible. Especially with the off stage antics. Anyway you've probably seen some of them on youtube.

 

[Thunder Of Zeus]

hey guys im new here hope i can help and add me on wifi i left my code in the intro thread so yea

We're glad to have you here!

Hooray for more Legan vids: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eF63T80Igk

I find it funny that Link's seem to be good friends with DK's, Legan has Ripple, KirinBlaze has Will and I have Silfa.

I'm starting to hate the DK vs Link matchup, I've been getting ***** alot whenever I play Silfa and he doesn't even try.

The only thing I like about DK is that he's a huge target without projectiles. Z-Air zoning and camping aren't too hard to keep up in the MU from my experience. His weight is an issue, and Link doesn't have dependable spikes or semi-spikes, so we can't take advantage of his weak vertical recovery.

EDIT: MooseLink93: Could I get you to give us your general location? East Coast, Australia, Canada, etc...?

 

[Rizen]

DK might out reach Link's melee attacks, he's faster and great at approaching defensively. That's why the MU is so hard. DK's Bair is annoying. Maybe Link should jab a lot like Ike players do.

 

[Ryos4]

Now are we talking jab cancel or just regular jabs. Cause jab cancels can be dangerous if you get predictable. Another question, does DK have any possible retaliations for jabs? Something that can either beat out jabs in speed or some sort of super armor?

 

[Huggles828]

If you get DK in a jab, he doesn't have a lot of fast attacks that face in front of him in the air. His nair has bad range and isn't a great attack overall, his fair takes forever. B up maybe, but I very highly doubt it. Now, if he can DI to the ground and powershield a jabcancel, he's gonna wreck Link because he's just overall faster than Link (and not just marginally; DK can hustle). If he has his Donkey punch fully charged up don't try to jab cancel him, he'll just punch you and eat the 4 damage of your next swipe while you eat a ham fist sandwich and his delicious, delicious super armor, and then you'll wash it down with a nice 30% damage. It even has half the calories with twice the death!

Also, DK has the BEST spot dodge and air dodge in the game. No comparison. At all.

See?!

 

[Scabe]

Ahaha, yeah his spot dodge is funny as. Jab canceling up front really does work well against DK but like Huggles said, if he gets down and blocks you he gets a free grab.

 

[Scabe]

Been watching the other versions of Link:

Brawl+ Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IGW1yd2n6JE
Not too many changes. I like how noticeably Dair has less landing lag. I also like how Up B in the air looks faster and stronger. He still looks like a character with a high learning curve. He also doesn't seem too popular as well. So yeah lots of similarities.

Brawl- Minus: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pOQcnFSM5qw
Dair seems to be even more stronger than it is in normal Brawl. He still looks like a character with a high learning curve. I love the distance his Up B gets. There's cool ice arrow effects and fire arrows. His grounded Up B is huge.

And when I say high learning curve I suppose, it looks like they're still not playing Link right.

Balanced Brawl Link: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VFQFMUMoe-0
Okay this player is much better than the other two. I love how you can use Zair right after Up B that's a huge plus for Link. Apart from that, he looks pretty normal.

 

[Ryos4]

Okay random tangent.

Why is it that high tier players always freak out when you beat them over and over? I was playing this snake from hawaii today and kept demanding i replay him over and over. I 2 stocked him over and over with Link, Pit, and Mario , and he actually says "You can't be this good with all the characters." And tells me to get a life. lol i mean really. I only get to actually play brawl during the summer and on rare occasions during school.

My thoughts are if you DONT WANNA SUCK, DONT PLAY HIGH TIERS. Cause even if you win with a high tier, doesn't automatically make you good, especially if you just spam the reason they are top. The sooner people learn that the sooner they will get better.

People...

 

[Huggles828]

I agree. Although M2K got to be among the best despite playing MK and Dedede. But for most people, if you learn to compete with bottom tier characters, a lot of the techniques you have to learn just to stand a chance translate nicely into top tiers. My Snake used to be awful, but he's become much better with no practice thanks to all of the sudden having great DI and knowing how to use projectiles and read people (I went from hating down throw to being able to chase people with it with no practice, haha) thanks to maining Link for example. If you only play top tiers you can still be good, but unless you play excellent players, you won't necessarily be forced to learn advanced techniques like that to be good, then you run into a bottom tier person who's had to learn that stuff and they can beat you.

Plus, it's embarrassing to lose to a bottom tier as a top tier.

 

[quirkynature]

Hell yeah! It's immensely satisfying beating a 'Nado and Drill Rush spamming MK and just shrugging when he looks at you like "Link is the second lowest character in the tier list!!"

Link might not be the best, but learning to DI with him has made my game so much better. If I'd started out with MK or Snake or a high tier, my game would definitely suck.

Link FTW!

 

[Ryos4]

I think the character i first got "good" at was TL, which in my opinion didnt make me good. He felt way too easy to use and just spam. Moving to Pit who was less spammy, however, still Pit is fairly easy to use, and if i came across the wrong people they could destroy me. Picking up Link and PT really taught me the lesson on not spamming smashes. With the addition of Mario, Ike and Kirby at the end also helped with a bunch of other changes that helped shape my game play for the better.

I think playing a number of characters consistently can help your overall game play for your main. Many characters have a distinctive niche that they fit into. And sometimes things transfer over well.

Though i find it odd that to this day i still cant play any of the high tier characters well.

 

[Rizen]

Bad MUs don't mean the match is predetermined, people sort of think low tiers can't compete but it just means the low tier player is at a serious disadvantage. I played a Ganon in a tourney thinking 'great an easy MU for once' and he broke through my defenses and tech chased me to death on FD; he placed 5th out of 25-30 people. The Snake MU is almost even which is weird considering Snake's the second best and Link's second worst, according to the Tier list.
Maining Link is a good experience because Link players must have great DI.

 

[Scabe]

I don't know, I think using Link slows your progress as a player down. When people pick up Link it's all about learning the AT's, because we've seen how flashy and cool he looks. But really learning those AT's slow our learning of how to punish, how to read, all those important fundamentals.

 

[Ryos4]

I dont know about that. I mean when i picked up Link there wasn't really too many flashy players out yet. I think i only heard of izaw at that time. But then again i find myself to be a very very lazy brawler. I dont like to have to do all the complex works of ATs and high speed play. Course i tried a bit at first, but found it to be not worth it. I knew a Link main who tried going the technical route when i just started to play Link. I usually was able to beat him in a ditto just being plain ol normal Link. I kept telling him to focus on basics before going technical but what can you do.

My thoughts are that technical play can help you in the long run i suppose. I think AT's should come after you get sufficient at just playing Link. You're probably going to do a lot better learning how to read and react, than trying to master AT's. But then again im taking this from a Pits angle as well since Pit's AT' while helpful in some situations are better left just playing basics.