Late nights with leaf [codes to test]

[leafgreen386]

Haha the sideB fix for ganon is so perfect. Well, almost perfect, anyway. Still needs to be looked at for some editing. You can jab or dtilt before they hit the ground from it, but anything else is too slow, so it's great for setting up edgeguards or combos guaranteed, but you'll need to read their tech or edgeguard them if you want to kill them off of it, exactly as I was hoping. The sideB also will let you grab the ledge now if you use it from the stage, like in vb. The momentum code screwed it up, but I guess that since it's faster now, he doesn't go as far from the ledge and is able to grab onto it. The only thing that went wrong was that he moves backwards if he grabs a foe that's close to him, which is... interesting. It makes it harder to corner someone by the ledge and jab them off for an edgeguard, but it gives you a little more space on the stage to combo them. It also looks kinda strange, so we should probably try and fix that. And gotta make sure you can't techchase on reaction now...

I haven't got new speed values for the utilt yet, but I'm not entirely sure I like the idea of making it work like this to begin with. It's still gonna need quite a few frames of starup to not be horribly borked, since the hitbox is well... huge. As it is, it can be spammed as just a giant wall of explosion, which is really really gay. If I had to choose between making the utilt usable and cutting down the landlag on aerial downB, I would choose the latter.

The reason I suggested the upsmash thing for Sonic is because we were unable to fix Sonic's d-throw.
It is still techable during the move, but unlike Ganon's side B, speeding it up won't really help since you'd bipass the hitboxes on the throw as a result.

Not true. We should be able to speed up the animation after the hitbox so that sonic can move again before his opponent.

Ganon:

-Speed up warlock punch by 1.25x
-Have the warlock punch be able to **** shields (like Marth's shield breaker)
-I love the attack properties you made with the utilt, keep it. But the animation needs to be as smooth as Samus's and/or Falcon's utilt.
-His UP+B needs more knockback.

Although I know you meant the grab part of the upB, this actually made me think how awesome it would be if ganon could kill people with the punch part of it more reliably. I can just imagine a ganon doing upB KOs, be it from a dair, as an edgeguard, or even while getting edgeguarded and the opponent screws up. It's a pretty hard move to hit with, too, so wouldn't be too imbalanced. It already works at very specific percents from dair. A small kb increase would be all it needs to work a tad more reliably. Not that he needs it after everything else he's getting. It would just be hot to see more upB kills in this game (which reminds me... why hasn't charizard gotten his upB buff yet?). lol

Wow, and you guys are *****ing about the reverse knee and down b resets being unnecessary. OMFG. Every single day I get more and more depressed about what I see on these boards.

"You guys?" Excuse me? Cape and I decided that we need to try stuff to finally get changes going on this game. You're trying to tell me that we're wrong for trying to move this project along? And this is all while you, yourself, want to make changes that other people consider "frivolous?" Get off your high horse. Not all of these changes are expected to be kept. They're to try out. So try them. Propose some more ideas of your own you want to try out. We'll gladly test them. Right now we're throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

 

[shanus]

The strike–throughs are the changes I don't necessarily agree with.

Ike D tilt winddown sped up 1.5x times after frame 18
For how **** this move is (esp. on levels like delfino) I dont think this needs to faster.

Peach and Sheik jab have one more frame of lag to compensate for the pressure game

Falco has two more frames of lag on his jab for the same reason

Falco U tilt has 1.5x cooldown after frame 14

MK Uair comes out .5x slower (Frame 4)

Lucario Up and B works 1.5x faster
I think Lucario could deserve a better fix. No Knockback growth on the first hit of dair, or being able to act out of upB seem like a lot better options to me.

Squirtle D smash works at 1.5x speed

Squirtle F smash works at 1.75x speed
As someone who seconds squirtle, I can say these buffs add utility to the ground game and can be useful, but we desperately need a damage decay code because no matter what, his fair / bair/ utilt will always be superior to these.

Wario D tilt has 1.33x winddown

Samus U smash is 1.1x faster

Ivysaur up and B has 2x winddown to facilitate DI after vine whip

Wolf B throw windsdown 2x faster

Wolf up and B windsdown 6x faster to help recovery

Wolf up and B moves at double speed after frame 6

Wolf U tilt has 1.4x winddown

Sonic U smash windsdown 4x faster

SOnic neutral B comes out 2x faster
We already did this lol

SOnic U tilt has 1.75x winddown
I thought darksonic was against this?

Sonic D smash comes out 2x as fast

Ness dair comes out 1.25x faster

Ganon side B travels 1.2x faster

Ganon U tilt is sped up 5x until the hitbox
I always thought DarkSonic made an awesome post on why some "useless" moves per say shouldn't be tinkered with. I'll give it a whirl, these are just opinions mind you!

Ganon Side B release is 10x faster (links into jab)
Won't this let you do reactionary thunderstorm tech-chases (even at 1.3x?)

Ganon down and B sped up 1.1x

Zelda up and B 1.5x faster

Jiggs U tilt comes out 2x faster

DDD Jab and jab combo is 1.25 times faster


Hitboxes:

Ganon U tilt has properties to make it more like other tilts

DDD F smash sourspot induces slipping

DDD Dair has no KBG to allow for combos

DDD Uair has more KBG to help killing

DDD F tilt close hitboxes have cape properties that turn people around, but dont reflect projectiles

Ness D tilt angle changed to 5 from 0 to stop wall locks

Zelda fair and bair have a bigger sweetspot

Sheik F smash first hit slips so second hit connects more consistantly

Sonic U smash always spikes on the last hit

Sonic neutral B always sends at a 270 degree angle from location of hit

[SIZE="5"][B]Speed Changes:[/B][/size]

[B]Ike:[/B]
D tilt
22120029 3FC00000

[B]Peach:[/B]
Jab
0C100048 3F000000
0C110048 3F800000

[B]Sheik:[/B]
Jab
0E100048 3F000000
0E110048 3F800000

[B]Falco:[/B]
Jab
13100048 3F000000
13120048 3F800000

U tilt 1.5x cooldown
130E0028 3FC00000

[B]MK:[/B]
Uair
16008065 3F000000
16028065 3F800000
16048065 3F666666

[B]Lucario:[/B]
Up and B 1.5x faster
21000114 3FC00000

[B]Squirtle:[/B]
Dsmash 1.5x
1E00002F 3FC00000 

Fsmash 1.75x
1E00002C 3FE00000 

[B]Wario:[/B]
Dtilt 1.33x winddown
15080029 3FAA3D70 

[B]Samus:[/B]
U smash 1.1x faster
03000032 3F8CCCCC

[B]Ivy:[/B]
Up and B winddown 2x
1F1A0114 40000000

[B]Wolf:[/B]
B throw winddown 2x faster
2C288076 40000000

UpB windsdown 6x faster
2C2C0114 40C00000

DownB 2x after frame 6
2C070115 40000000

UTilt 1.4x winddown
2C0F0028 3FB33333

[B]Sonic:[/B]
Up Smash windsdown 4x faster:
2F310032 40800000

Neutral B 2x startup
2F000112 40000000
2F0C0112 3F800000

Utilt 1.75x winddown
2F140028 3FE00000 

D smash 2x startup:
2F00002F 40000000
2F08002F 3F800000

[B]Ness:[/B]
Dair comes out 1.25x faster
0A008066 3FA00000
0A108066 3F800000

[B]Ganon:[/B]
Side B 1.2x faster
14000113 3F99999A

U tilt 6x speed up (NEEDS LOTS OF WORK)

Side B release 10x faster (Leaf made me do it)
14160118 41200000

Ganon down and B 1.1x speed
14000115 3F8CCCCC

[B]Zelda:[/B]
Up and B 1.5x faster
0D000114 3FC00000

[B]Jiggs:[/B]
U tilt comes out 2x faster
25000028 40000000
25080028 3F800000

[B]Dedede[/B]
Jab at 1.25x:
20000024 3FA00000

[SIZE="5"][B]Hitbox Shiz:[/B][/SIZE]
[B]Ganon[/B]
U tilt:

Hitbox 3: 
141B503C 05169028
0C201E05 00550000
FFFFFFFF

Hitbox 4:
1413503C 05050028
0A201E05 00550000
FFFFFFFF

Hitbox 5:
1411503C 05050028
06201E05 013B0000
FFFFFFFF

[B]Dedede:[/B]
F smash sourspot with trip
20051E64 0005002C
051E6408 00500000
FFFFFFFF

Dair: No KBG, higher base KB on last hit

Hitbox 4:
20058C32 00046033
05025A00 00460000
FFFFFFFF 

Hitbox 5:
20058C32 00050033
05025A00 00500000
FFFFFFFF

Uair: KBG on last hit increased by 20
Hitbox 4:
20058232 00046033
05963200 00460000
FFFFFFFF

Hitbox 5: 
20058232 00050033
05963200 00500000
FFFFFFFF

Ftilt
hitbox 1
20065014 00041027
06501407 00CA0000
FFFFFFFF

hitbox 3
20045015 00041027
04501407 00CA0000
FFFFFFFF

hitbox 4
20046414 00041027
04641407 00CA0000
FFFFFFFF


[B]Ness[/B]
D tilt angle changed to 5 from 0 (prevent wall locks)
0A041403 00000029
04140300 00050000
FFFFFFFF


[B]Zelda:[/B]
Fair
Hitbox 1:
0D145F22 03169033
145F2203 01690000
FFFFFFFF

Hitbox 2:
0D045005 00169033
145F2203 01690000
FFFFFFFF

Hitbox 3:
0D046005 00169033
04600500 01690000
FFFFFFFF

Bair

Hitbox 1:
0D146028 03169033
14602803 01690000
FFFFFFFF


[B]Sheik:[/B]
Fsmash

Hitbox 1
0E056400 0001802C
05010108 00180000
FFFFFFFF

Hitbox 2
0E056400 0016902C
05010108 01690000
FFFFFFFF

Hitbox 3
0E056400 0003C02C
05010108 003C0000
FFFFFFFF

[B]Sonic:[/B]
U smash:
2F039946 0004B032
03643200 010E0000
FFFFFFFF

Netural B:
2F08502D 00169118
083C1417 010E0000
FFFFFFFF

[/QUOTE]

 

[Dark Sonic]

Shanus...the Sonic neutral B thing didn't end up working. The ending lag works correctly, but the startup lag just doesn't seem to change no matter what we do to it. Might as well take the neutral B stuff out entirely.

As for uptilt, well I kinda changed my mind after testing it out. It's not as bad as I thought it would be and it's still relatively hard to land. It does make a nice anti air approach as I predicted, but only against characters who don't have disjointed approaches. Not to mention that Sonic is doing the approaching most of the time, and this move is terrible for that lol.

 

[goodoldganon]

Well some characters rely on those aerial approaches against sonic and they don't have the disjointed hitboxes. You're are very right. It is a mediocre anti air attack but it still helps. I just don't think he needs the buff in that area (or really at all).

I don't think it's gonna radically change any of his matchups but it still helps a bit.

 

[kupo15]

"You guys?" Excuse me? Cape and I decided that we need to try stuff to finally get changes going on this game. You're trying to tell me that we're wrong for trying to move this project along? And this is all while you, yourself, want to make changes that other people consider "frivolous?" Get off your high horse. Not all of these changes are expected to be kept. They're to try out. So try them. Propose some more ideas of your own you want to try out. We'll gladly test them. Right now we're throwing stuff at the wall and seeing what sticks.

what really angered me is how people are perfectly fine to consider these outrageous changes when they want to remove things like the down b reset (and other codes which actually make more sense than what has been posted) which is nowhere near as absurd as the suggestions I'm seeing. So this got me quite confused and led me to believe the plussery is going down the wrong path with these excessive changes and that they are final as of now. I do want people to be brave and be more "radical" with movement stuff like gravity and some mechanics but not with character's moves. That makes me feel that the it will imbalance the game and be detrimental to it. Things like the ganon utilt speed up, the no free fall after ganon side b blow my mind and I felt that you guys claim these to actually be final.

Things like the wario dtilt I don't agree with being speed up. Why? Because the tumble codes take care of this move. Without it, you can easily air dodge to the ground and the winddown of the move combined with this makes it not really work. But with the code, you can effectively pressure them in the air and position them to where you want them. This move is really good but doesn't shine because for whatever reason, people don't want the tumble codes and they really should be reconsidered.

 

[goodoldganon]

Which does bring up the point I think we need to discuss the tumble codes again. I was against them before but I haven't tested it with the later sets and (what I believe) is going to be the final physics of the game. Another topic and another time though.

 

[kupo15]

Which does bring up the point I think we need to discuss the tumble codes again. I was against them before but I haven't tested it with the later sets and (what I believe) is going to be the final physics of the game. Another topic and another time though.

Sounds promising.

Ok, now that I know we are throwing things at the wall and are willing to try first instead of reject from principle, I can relax now. I might as well add these

Falcon

Dair buff
090E640A 0010E033
0E562800 010E0000
FFFFFFFF

Kb is a little too high I think

Gentlemen
0906320A 00046024
06641E00 001e0000
FFFFFFFF

The scaling might be too much, not sure. I think I want to model it off of pits jab

 

[goodoldganon]

Gentlemen is a must. What's the D-air buff? Does it bring the Nipple Spike back? Increased knockback seems unnecessary. I really need to learn how to compile my own codeset so I can add codes (like the Gentlemen) in without having to wait for someone else to post a whole set. Can someone PM me and show me?

 

[leafgreen386]

Gentlemen is a must. What's the D-air buff? Does it bring the Nipple Spike back? Increased knockback seems unnecessary. I really need to learn how to compile my own codeset so I can add codes (like the Gentlemen) in without having to wait for someone else to post a whole set. Can someone PM me and show me?

The dair buff makes the dair tumble sooner.

 

[shanus]

GoG I'm making one now

 

[kupo15]

the dair is to make the spike hitbox stronger because right now, its horribly weak. Doesn't tumble mario until 35%???? So it should tumble earlier. I would love the nipple spike back

 

[goodoldganon]

Falcon doesn't deserve the nipple spike back though. His nipples aren't GOLD enough, in this game. Sorry pal.

 

[kupo15]

Falcon doesn't deserve the nipple spike back though. His nipples aren't GOLD enough, in this game. Sorry pal.

texture hacking. No excuses

 

[shanus]

http://shanemulliganphotography.blogsite.org:6111/~shane/BR/

Has the set updated with some other shiny stuff in it too (Yoshi downsmash + new shiny css and other yummy stuff)

Doesn't include: Ganon Utilt, Zelda Fair Stuff, and I think Ness Dair are the only ones i excluded.

 

[goodoldganon]

http://shanemulliganphotography.blogsite.org:6111/~shane/BR/

Has the set updated with some other shiny stuff in it too (Yoshi downsmash + new shiny css and other yummy stuff)

Doesn't include: Ganon Utilt, Zelda Fair Stuff, and I think Ness Dair are the only ones i excluded.

Sexy, been watching Old School waiting for it. Does it have the Falcon buffs Kupo posted?

 

[leafgreen386]

Sexy, been watching Old School waiting for it. Does it have the Falcon buffs Kupo posted?

Yes, it does.

lol I keep hitting edit by accident instead of quote back here. Keep having to back out.

 

[kupo15]

you should add this


Corneria
* 48000000 80B84EB0
* DE000000 80008180
* 58010000 0000000C
* 58010000 00000390
* 300000E4 00000031
* 58010000 000000DC
* 58010000 00000008
* 1600000C 00000030
* 3F8B851F 00000000
* 00000000 00000000
* 00000000 3F8B851F
* 00000000 00000000
* 00000000 00000000
* 3F8B851F 00000000
* E0000000 80008000

 

[goodoldganon]

Is the Wiz Kick stuff in? The grounded one isn't sending people anywhere.

 

[shanus]

No, I never had the data for it. Kupo can you post your version?

 

[goodoldganon]

Ganondorf's down+B
Grounded:

hitbox 1-
140C463C 1302D115
0C505013 00140000
FFFFFFFF

hitbox 2-
140A463C 1302D115
0A463C13 013B0000
FFFFFFFF

Aerial:
hitbox 1-
140F6432 13122115
0F643213 01220000
FFFFFFFF

hitbox 2-
140E6432 13050115
0E643213 01220000
FFFFFFFF

Ground pound:
14082350 0005011E
08235000 00500000
FFFFFFFF

More BKB and KBG on first hit grounded and diff angle. Second hit diff angle.

Second air hit spikes

Cape and I worked on it earlier today.

 

[leafgreen386]

Shanus, the PM I sent you had the ganon murder foot data.

And kupo, I think you need to edit the boundaries on corneria, too. The edges are ridiculously close with just that code. Definitely closer than they were in melee.

 

[goodoldganon]

Sadface

It's what I waited all night to test...

The Yoshi down-smash buff is very nice. The gentleman is also nice. The Falcon D-air is really strong now. I thought his d-air was good as it was already. Guess it comes down to if we adopt the Tumble codes.

EDIT: I preferred 50% ALR. Aerials feel a little too spammable now a days. No reward for auto canceling them really and it just becomes more beneficial to FF most aerials now. My two cents.

 

[shanus]

heh gog, that is 50% ALR. I didn't change alr since im a forgetful one

also, recheck my site in a few min, should have one with wizkick changes in (i won't have tested it, so if it doesn't work, oops)!

 

[goodoldganon]

heh gog, that is 50% ALR. I didn't change alr since im a forgetful one

also, recheck my site in a few min, should have one with wizkick changes in (i won't have tested it, so if it doesn't work, oops)!

I finished watching old school, I was just making a comment about 40% ALR from the earlier sets.

 

[kupo15]

ganon wizkick stuff. Stronger grounded, 40 deg angle instead of 45, always spike aerial

140C463C
* 1302D115 0C5A3C13
* 00280000 FFFFFFFF
* 140A463C 1302D115
* 0A5A3C13 00280000
* FFFFFFFF 140F6432
* 13122115 0F643213
* 016B0000 FFFFFFFF
* 140E6432 13050115
* 0E643213 01180000
* FFFFFFFF 00000000

The dair is too strong imo. Tumbles mario at 0 @_@

 

[shanus]

kk, its online now, haven't tested it, but the set should load just fine.

 

[The Cape]

Leave it at 50% ALR, it seems to need to be that way.

Gonna have to have leaf fix the speed on Ganon U tilt. but he has the new hitbox data that makes it a bit less broken.

 

[shanus]

Okay, from my testing:

-Wolf Utilt, too fast (try out 1.2x windown instead of 1.4)
-Wolf upB changes don't really seem like they are doing much (exit in particular)
-Ganon sideB is hilarious (maybe try like 4x instead of well, 10 haha)
-Lucario's triple jump glitch is gay
-Sonics upsmash spike is ultra gay when under a platform. (uthrow uair) then upsmash gay them under the platform can lead to trivial techchases all day long. I need to see if DI can solve this, but if upsmash is going to spike, then the winddown (which is at 4x faster) needs to be tuned down because in the few games I played with it, it was stupid good (read: mindless) at platform techchasing.

 

[Dark Sonic]

Shanus, the upsmash speed up didn't go through at all actually. At least not on my version. If it did go through, the upsmash lag should be 4 frames, which is still not short enough to get another upsmash if they tech in place (might be able too on a techroll, but not when they're on a platform since Sonic slides too far and starting the upsmash any later shouldn't work). Were they teching the upsmash like they're supposed to? If it does work on techrolls on medium platforms (like battlefield), then we should increase the startup lag a tiny bit.

Basically, what I want is for him to be able to tech chase with upsmash, but make it a near frame perfect tech chase so that it can't be done purely on reaction (discerning which way they'll tech in the 4 frames of ending lag of upsmash and reacting accordingly would be litterally impossible for a human being).

 

[Revven]

And kupo, I think you need to edit the boundaries on corneria, too. The edges are ridiculously close with just that code. Definitely closer than they were in melee.

For the most part, I think kupo was just posting the code to have people try it out and see if they like the size or not. It's a waste of time to adjust the boundaries for the size if nobody else likes the size or thinks the size is too big.

I'll try the size of the stage today myself actually... definitely wanna see how it looks.

 

[goodoldganon]

So I'm gonna be upfront. I don't like the fact we are changing Ganon's u-tilt. And here is why:

1. It's still situational useful.
   
2. Cool points for having a suction affect.
   
3. It brings him closer to Falcon, something we should be striving to avoid.
   
4. The hitbox is HUGE. If it's not fast enough it won't be used to combo but if it's too fast it becomes a huge wall of explosion which is really really gay.
   
5. It looks stupid. He causes a **** explosion so it should take time to charge.
   
6. It gets massive MAN POINTS! Ganondorf lift up his leg and basically says 'You see my huge junk there? Do ya? Well now it's going to explode on you. BAM!' I'm childish and call it the Exploding Testicles' attack.

Instead I want to toss out the idea that we make the Warlock Punch more useable. Here are my reasons:

1. Separates him from Falcon while in turn making the Falcon Punch look even more epic.
2. I'd think it looks less idiotic. A Flaming Punch of Darkness doesn't seem like it should take as much time to prepare.
3. Could lead to some wicked cool combo finishers
4. Ganon doesn't need two slow, powerful attacks.

And that's really it. Does anyone else agree? Anyone else want to mess with the Warlock Punch instead of the U-tilt?

 

[Deleted member]

we should enlarge the flaming bird effect on th falcon punch if possible .

 

[shanus]

i dont think he should have speedy utilt either, i think a slight speed up isnt bad, but id rather not completely rewrite its utility

 

[kupo15]

For the most part, I think kupo was just posting the code to have people try it out and see if they like the size or not. It's a waste of time to adjust the boundaries for the size if nobody else likes the size or thinks the size is too big.

I'll try the size of the stage today myself actually... definitely wanna see how it looks.

basically. That and I don't know what numbers to even punch in on that code. 1 isn't the default and when I tried I made the blast zones really far away or ppl exploded when the game started lol. So we will need some help on figuring out the default for stages

So I'm gonna be upfront. I don't like the fact we are changing Ganon's u-tilt. And here is why:

1. It's still situational useful.
   
2. Cool points for having a suction affect.
   
3. It brings him closer to Falcon, something we should be striving to avoid.
   
4. The hitbox is HUGE. If it's not fast enough it won't be used to combo but if it's too fast it becomes a huge wall of explosion which is really really gay.
   
5. It looks stupid. He causes a **** explosion so it should take time to charge.
   
6. It gets massive MAN POINTS! Ganondorf lift up his leg and basically says 'You see my huge junk there? Do ya? Well now it's going to explode on you. BAM!' I'm childish and call it the Exploding Testicles' attack.

Instead I want to toss out the idea that we make the Warlock Punch more useable. Here are my reasons:

1. Separates him from Falcon while in turn making the Falcon Punch look even more epic.
2. I'd think it looks less idiotic. A Flaming Punch of Darkness doesn't seem like it should take as much time to prepare.
3. Could lead to some wicked cool combo finishers
4. Ganon doesn't need two slow, powerful attacks.

And that's really it. Does anyone else agree? Anyone else want to mess with the Warlock Punch instead of the U-tilt?

Yea, I agree with not changing the utilt.

 

[shanus]

Is there any way we can increase gravity pull on his utilt, maybe give it more edgeguard utility where it can suck in people trying to sweetspot?

 

[leafgreen386]

I could certain get behind making the murder fist more usable instead of the utilt. I've been pretty much unsure about the utilt change this whole time, tbqh. I think it should be left strong and powerful (perhaps a little bit stronger, though... it looks like it should hit like a nuclear blast, why doesn't it kill like one?). If the murder fist was sped up to be more usable, it would certainly need to be weakened some.

If we really wanted to go with a unique fix on this (and one that is pretty highly requested at that), we should just give him a fricking ton of IASA frames on the utilt when we get an IASA modifier to let him use the windboxes. We could also probably increase the strength of the windboxes with the hitbox mod, assuming it lets us modify windboxes.

It gets massive MAN POINTS! Ganondorf lift up his leg and basically says 'You see my huge junk there? Do ya? Well now it's going to explode on you. BAM!' I'm childish and call it the Exploding Testicles' attack.

Sliq calls it the Murder Balls =o

basically. That and I don't know what numbers to even punch in on that code. 1 isn't the default and when I tried I made the blast zones really far away or ppl exploded when the game started lol. So we will need some help on figuring out the default for stages

Well, iirc, a stage builder block is considered to be 20 units long by the game, for a frame of reference, and the center of a stage is considered (0,0) on the coordinate plane. If I had to estimate, you probably would want somewhere between 170 and 210 for the right bound on corneria.

 

[kupo15]

Is that how the code works?

I think the utilt should get a kb buff if anything. Its mainly used near the ledge but is useless because of how gay the ledge is. If it was better, the utilt would be an excellent edge guarding move. That ledge really needs to be reworked

 

[goodoldganon]

moved to wolf boards

 

[Revven]

Alright some opinions here after testing some of this stuff today against Shell in actual matches.

Wolf Utilt doesn't do anything for the guy. I'd much rather do/try GoG's suggestions for Wolf.

MK Uair nerf seems to be great, it works well and gets rid of his planking on the ledge (although I found that he can still do two of them near the ledge right after each other due to the IASA frames it has apparently, however, he would be easily punished afterwards). This also nerfs his Uair > Uair > Shuttle Loop from what me and Shell tested today. Overall, I'd say this is good until people start whining about it or have a good argument against it being too much. For now, it is very solid and a good nerf to his Uair and planking (which should finally be rid of with this change... I hope).

Sonic Usmash spike = too good. I like it a lot. Only problem I see with it is that when someone does a standing tech, Sonic might not be able to do anything to them as his Usmash endlag has JUST ended by the time they do a standing tech. Any way we could alleviate this issue kinda like Ganondorf had before? (Where jabbing couldn't do anything unless we sped up the choke endlag). Other than that, it's solid and definitely helps Sonic out a LOT on the ground. I like it, keep it.

DDD's changes... didn't try Dair I forgot about it, but, I did try his other changes. Ftilt I couldn't figure out for the life of me, which hitbox turns people around? The tip? I kept trying to hit Shell with it and it just didn't work. =\ The other thing was his Uair that I tried, which seemed to work well, all the hits connected. I didn't try his jab, completely forgot about it, sorry guys. I suck with DDD so after the match I tried him, I never played him again lawl.

Lucas's Dash Attack is safe on shield I think. Shell and I didn't get to test extensively, we forgot to before he had to go but, in the matches against him, Wolf vs. Lucas for example the dash attack seemed unpunishable from my shield stance (as in, safe on shield) which I think is a bit too powerful, especially for a dash attack. Needs some looking into or maybe I'm just a terrible player haha.

I just wanted to mention ONE thing in this post as well. Err wait, two actually. Sheik's Ftilt needs to be looked into, I think it is still a little too good at lower percents on a LOT of the cast. No wait, I take that back, not just low percents, MID percents too. It goes like this:

Ftilt > Nair > Ftilt > Fair > Ftilt > Fair until you're offstage and depending on your recovery, I can just needle you and edgehog with Sheik's Up B technique or hug the edge. It makes her gimping powers TOO good. Try and figure something out so it can work not as good. At least, this is what I noticed over the past few weeks with using Sheik. It could be just my opponent's bad DI *shrugs*

Also, the second thing was her Fair. Lower the scale by either 10 or 15. 135 is too much and gimps chars at 80-120%. I think that's a bit too good. Lower the scaling and people will be less angry about it.

Furthermore, from what I saw, the jab nerf to Falco didn't really do much to him or Sheik. They were so subtle it didn't even look like anything changed. Can anyone test and see if their jabs are still powerful? I couldn't tell a difference at all. Then again, it could just be that Shell doesn't abuse Falco's jabs like other players would.

Again, these were my impressions from playing with the set today in actual matches. If you have any questions, feel free to ask. I'll be uploading matches to show some of these changes being quite effective (especially MK Uair nerf and Sonic Usmash spike). Look forward to them.

 

[kupo15]

Are we going to do something about sonics horizontal killing power? That is the only thing I can think about that would make him more solid