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[rhan]

Meh I guess I should explain both sides then:

When I said "fairly even". It's like 55/45 in Sheik's favor.

Falcon can keep up with Sheik and do damage as long as he can stay grounded. If he screws up any kind of spacing then he's in for FTilt, FTilt, FTilt, Fair/Nair. But if he keep up spacied Nairs he's in a good position. Grabs and techchasing is his main priority. Easy damage and also can sometime end in an easy edgeuard.

Shaden should explain the Falcon aspect of the match since he always beats me 85% of the time. -_-

S-Man. Shaeman111. Shaden.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Hi PP <3
I just watched your matches with pc. ****.

Those matches are too good haha.

Edit: Lol Rhan. =p

Anyway, if Sheik CCs Falcon's Nairs or dash attacks under them if Falcon can only "space Nairs" then I feel like he's in trouble.

 

[TJ Infinat]

make some big swan origami, hold it, and swing fast. if you notice, the falcon punch's fire is actually shaped like a bird. this authenticity of shape should net you a few more dollars in my book.

bl@ckie chan? nigg@ call me a woman again and i will make purple fire appear on my **** hand and warlock punch yo ***. FO FREE. and i **** sudoku...but how did you remember that?

First. I need fire. Fire is the main part of the technique. The fire and the punch are necessary for me to get my cash.

Secondly. Bl@ckie chan like Jackie Chan, not like Cute black person. If I were calling you a woman there would be a dash (bl@ckie-chan). L2 Japanese, foo.

Third. . .Really? warlock punch? You can't even pull that ish off on my Bowser. Meh, have a headbutt and enjoy your nap in the dirt. *Chuckle*
Yeah, sudoku is pretty chill. Its the only thing involving both thinking and numbers theories that I enjoy, except for smash.

 

[Bl@ckChris]

I agree with Bl@ckie Chan. Crossword puzzles suck ****. Sudoku sucks **** too, but she's good at it, so she's far superior.

if you weren't calling me "bl@ckie-chan" then why the heck is the rest of the post in terms of "she". who is she?

L2 english, foo

 

[TJ Infinat]

sudoku is a person.
Cross word puzzles suck ****. . .they suck. . they're stupid, dont do them
Sudoku sucks ****, but she's good at it. which makes her better. do sudoku. . . . .

L2 English, I think you're just pickin fights. . . . *smirk*

 

[Bl@ckChris]

oh. i definitely didn't pick up on sudoku being a chick. and here i thought you were saying i was good at sudoku (which i am).

drag.

 

[Dr Peepee]

This thread and the Brocator thread are being weird today.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Meh I guess I should explain both sides then:

When I said "fairly even". It's like 55/45 in Sheik's favor.

Falcon can keep up with Sheik and do damage as long as he can stay grounded. If he screws up any kind of spacing then he's in for FTilt, FTilt, FTilt, Fair/Nair. But if he keep up spacied Nairs he's in a good position. Grabs and techchasing is his main priority. Easy damage and also can sometime end in an easy edgeuard.

Shaden should explain the Falcon aspect of the match since he always beats me 85% of the time. -_-

S-Man. Shaeman111. Shaden.

Heeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeck no.

Are you people delusional or what? Have you ever tried to play Falcon vs a good Sheik or are you half-asleep when you do? Whether or not if he stays grounded is irrelevant, he still loses every confrontation if the Sheik doesn't mess up. Badly. See: Darkrain vs M2K.

One grab = a stock. I don't care if you get out before the lethal blow is delivered, you've taken 80%+ from a single grab. That is basically a stock. One ftilt, dtilt, grab... you're dead. Sheik can CC into her grab from Falcon's nairs.

Sure, Falcon can do some nasty combos to Sheik... if he can grab her or down-air her, but let's be real here, that's not an easy task. You mess up once, you get grabbed and you die if they react to your rolls correctly. It's not predicting with Sheik, it's just reacting to the "tech" sound and chasing them accordingly. Falcon's techroll sucks.

Once Falcon is off the stage, it's usually stock minus 1, and it's not very hard to get him there when you're Sheik. Falcon, on the other hand, has to work his *** off for every KO opportunity.

I could go on, but I'll let this match do the talking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vphTto5RzLc

 

[DJRome]

let's analyze this match more closely.
first stock, why did he get lots of damage? just came in with a knee
2nd stock, first grab was because he downtilted in front of sheik for no reason, then missed gentleman was an edgeguard
3rd stock, trying to **** up sheik on the ledge? death.
4th stock, same as 3rd.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

You people are asking unrealistic things from players. Even if he had played perfectly, he wouldn't have done better than a three stock. Sheik shuts down Falcon a lot more than a 55-45 matchup. She has an option for everything Falcon tries.

 

[DJRome]

this is true, but ask yourself what is the optimal falcon strat vs sheik and count the # of times darkrain does this in that match

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Doesn't matter. Whether he plays perfectly or not, the end result is the same, and the way they got there will not change.

 

[DJRome]

so you're basically saying the matchup is 100-0

 

[Dr Peepee]

55/45 or 100/0

choose carefully

 

[lord karn]

I basically agree with Yay here. The question is, does Sheik have a reactive answer for everything Falcon can do? If so then, when played perfectly, it's 100-0. I think Falcon can force it to a guessing game sometimes, or that he can force guessing games that give him less guess options than Sheik. I don't really know exactly what kind of guessing games it can be forced to, but I'd say that sheik has purely reactive responses in a lot of situations in that matchup, such that it's probably 65-35 or so.

I think Linguini's post is really good. I think that most people exaggerate matchups, using them as johns for losing, when in reality they just didn't know the matchup. The above situation might be true, but if the Sheik player does not know when he can react, it really doesn't matter. M2K is really the only sheik player that knows the matchup to the extent that he does all the right things. Fighting M2k's sheik with falcon is probably a 65-35 or worse matchup, but fighting any other Sheik probably isn't nearly as bad. Essentially, most matchups in the metagame overall right now aren't that bad, but in a strictly theoretical sense they might be terrible. Perhaps that's what Linguini meant, but that's what I got out of it. @_@

 

[DJRome]

i must find this genius post

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

It's not 100-0 just because Falcon can mix it up and sometimes get in, but majority of the time, the Sheik player will have more gimmicks, more victories in their clashes and ultimately, she'll win the match. Falcon just doesn't have as many options vs Sheik as she has vs him, making the matchup more in her favor than 55-45.

Also, M2K plays gay and completely shuts down Falcon to the point where it's not even funny.

 

[Linguini]

I basically agree with Yay here. The question is, does Sheik have a reactive answer for everything Falcon can do? If so then, when played perfectly, it's 100-0. I think Falcon can force it to a guessing game sometimes, or that he can force guessing games that give him less guess options than Sheik. I don't really know exactly what kind of guessing games it can be forced to, but I'd say that sheik has purely reactive responses in a lot of situations in that matchup, such that it's probably 65-35 or so.

I think Linguini's post is really good. I think that most people exaggerate matchups, using them as johns for losing, when in reality they just didn't know the matchup. The above situation might be true, but if the Sheik player does not know when he can react, it really doesn't matter. M2K is really the only sheik player that knows the matchup to the extent that he does all the right things. Fighting M2k's sheik with falcon is probably a 65-35 or worse matchup, but fighting any other Sheik probably isn't nearly as bad. Essentially, most matchups in the metagame overall right now aren't that bad, but in a strictly theoretical sense they might be terrible. Perhaps that's what Linguini meant, but that's what I got out of it. @_@

Basically hit the nail right on the head.

 

[TJ Infinat]

oh. i definitely didn't pick up on sudoku being a chick. and here i thought you were saying i was good at sudoku (which i am).

drag.

You never cared to show me your sudoku skill. We were too busy smashing and having you cover for me in physics. *Smirk*

But, seriously, chris. You know me, when have I ever insulted anyone?

As far as sheik v. Falcon, I have to say the match, when looked at in terms of the character's and just the characters, is more than 55-45 in for sheik. Even if you postulate the off chance that the falcon can make a split second decisions. In order to beat falcon like M2K did you have to know falcon like the palm of that hand thats been wacking you off for decades.

 

[DJRome]

lol, that match was pure luck and bad decisions on darkrain's part. he makes it much better when he thinks the next match

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

The stage made it better*

 

[DJRome]

yeah, the stage accounts for that many stocks difference/dl is very good for falcon

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

DL is good for Falcon until the other character is Sheik.

 

[DUB]

Also, M2K plays gay and completely shuts down Falcon to the point where it's not even funny.

He CP'd my Falcon in friendlies with Shiek on Final D. I've seen it.

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

He CP'd my Falcon in friendlies with Shiek on Final D. I've seen it.

He does that.

 

[DJRome]

well, 1, falcons cp to dl. 2, we're talking about players on the same level of skill

 

[everlasting yayuhzz]

Where else is he going to go? Every other stage is even worse.

 

[DJRome]

The stage made it better*

Where else is he going to go? Every other stage is even worse.

then why would you say stage to dk64? irony itt

 

[Dr Peepee]

Lol DJ thinks he found a flaw.

But seriously, that just means Falcon does less terribly there.

 

[DJRome]

lol, yay says dk64>dl64 since darkrain did better. the stage is why he did better says yay

yay says every stage is worse than dl64. or so says yay

 

[onlymaskde]

do you know shieks d smash hits lower than where falcons up b can sweet spot?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8XfMhxRHJBA#t=1m59s

 

[Dr Peepee]

Lol ****.

I was kinda curious about that myself.

 

[mr.fizwidget]

One of the cheesiest edgeguards vs falcon is when he is recovering low, you need to roll the very edge of the stage. If sheik is on the VERY edge of the stage, when she downsmashes her head actually hits BELOW where falcon can sweetspot. If you time the dsmashes right, falcon is then just stuck getting Dsmashed over and over until he can't recover. So silly!.

i think that dsmash was late...

this is from the shiek guide

 

[DJRome]

yeah, it's only like 1 frame that it hits below i think only on the initial windup

 

[null55]

that's so stupid. her legs are all above her and junk.

 

[Ragnar0k]

That doesn't mean she can't give good good head. In fact it's probably better with her legs above her.

 

[mr.fizwidget]

shiek is a dude dude

 

[null55]

LOL wtff?

Falcon WISHES he was getting head and not being edge-guarded.

 

[Ragnar0k]

Balls didn't touch.

Jordan what did the doctor say?

 

[*P*L*U*R*]

yes, i agree with 60-40. but then again, i don't see why i can't be confused about the matchup when it's that ratio

people do the same thing for other 60-40's, falco marth, sheik spacy, etc for the 60. it really irritates me when people like josh say that the matchup is 75-25/80-20

I think Josh exaggerates matchups sometimes. I hate hearing about how gay my character is when all of his characters have advantageous matchups against IC. So what you didn't have a jump? Stop phantasming into my grab or I'm gonna predict it everytime and Fthrow Fsmash you. Christ, I'm not THAT much worse than you and my character isn't THAT gay to the point where I only beat you because IC can chaingrab you to death(which I don't do btw.)

Also, Dthrow Dair is escapable for all characters. And Dthrow reverse dair on Falcon and Ganon is escapable if you smash DI up.

and you still think IC vs. Shiek is even?

If Sheik can keep them off past CC percents, she's fine. Camp platforms with needles and aerials and stuff but be on the lookout for our UAirs/smashes. Separate and just Ftilt Fair nana until she dies or until Popo arrives to attempt saving her.

I dunno much about matchups though. Not even of my own character. I pretty much just analyze from what happens in the match.



Someone describe their view on the Falcon/jiggz matchup.