Last duke biweekly! Online prereg! $20 venue $0 entry|m2k, armada, pp, ally attending

[Dr Peepee]

I'm just bored DJ.

But seriously, don't john about Falcon lol.

 

[DJRome]

hey, if vanz does it, i'll do it. like, if you look at the sheik boards, most sheiks have no answer for cf. even plank, who unopposedly claims to be best vs falcon, only barely beats hax, who isn't even the best falcon.

 

[Dr Peepee]

Tri-state thinks he's the best. =p

And wtf step it up Sheiks.

 

[AlcyoNite]

hey, if vanz does it, i'll do it. like, if you look at the sheik boards, most sheiks have no answer for cf. even plank, who unopposedly claims to be best vs falcon, only barely beats hax, who isn't even the best falcon.

what do u mean no answer?

also my brain just got ***** by reading the last 2 pages. u all need to CHILL.

put yo **** on ice

 

[Dr Peepee]

I thought it was funny lol.

Also DJ, good luck getting anything done with that support in the Pound 4 thread.

 

[DJRome]

honestly, i think it's that mumbo jumbo with fox marth. and yes, im being completely srs.

sure, tope chasing yada yada theory crap, but when you get right down to it, you get out spaced and outsped and out combo'ed.

sure i'd say sheik has an advantage, but im tired of people saying that sheiks can't john about falcon bc it's not an easy matchup. that's like saying marths can't john about ganon. all high tier characters can take advantage of other high tiers and that's just how the game works. it's not as if a magical number will prevent combos from happening

edit: pp idk what you mean getting done in p4 thread

 

[Dr Peepee]

What Fox Marth what?

Outspaced? Ftilt>Falcon's Nair/Dair/Knee/Bair at least trades. Oh and that combos too.

Be gayer. Crouch more so you can't get grabbed or Nair'd. If you hit edgeguards and start ****** these Falcons then you'll see.

Wtf Marth Ganon. That's like even.

All high tiers don't have it as bad as Falcon does vs sheik.

Numbers are dumb.

You should gay/combo more than Falcon because you have easier ways to get in/punish.


Edit: that suggestion you made for me to be in the USA crew.

 

[onlymaskde]

Sheik vs Falcon is ridiculous, lol, it is f*cking SIMPLE for Sheik

so yeah DJ i don't wanna hear you john

 

[Moophobia]

Get ***** dj.

 

[DJRome]

yes, and those matchups did not used to be seen as even.

whatever, i'll just be bad vs falcon until i get more practice in

 

[Dr Peepee]

Okayyyy, but Sheik vs Falcon has been bad since the start of very competitive Melee(at least 05).

I could use Falcon vs Sheik practice so we can help each other next time we meet.

 

[Moophobia]

That ***** sheik is gay.

 

[DJRome]

no, im talking about matchups that are changing now. like for instance ganon vs marth. cf vs marth. fox vs marth. jiggs vs spacies. jiggs vs cf. etc. new things come up and they change the matchups. but for some reason, in spite of all of the new results, sheik falcon has no mobility. even sheik spacies has changed, and sheik marth is more even now, but. . . cf just doesn't move

i do much better against spacies, and they are definitely a harder matchup as you would say. unless im honestly just that bad vs falcon only, i don't see how you can disparage the sheik falcon matchup without condemning the other nc players i've beaten to less than mediocrity

 

[Dr Peepee]

Ganon was doing well vs Marth in 07(Linguini vs M2K FCD crews).

M2K invented Marth stuff from 07-09 imo.

Isai was doing great Falcon things in like 05.

etc etc etc

Sheik vs Marth is only "more" even because the skill of Marths has caught up to the traditional Sheik gayness. M2K's Marth vs KDJ's Sheik from one of those 07 MLGs isn't grossly different from what woulld happen at top level Sheik vs Marth.

What I'm getting at here is Falcon only can mix his game up so much. He was pushed far pretty early, but he only has so many tools to work with, especially vs Sheik's nonsense.

Edit: Sheik as a character hasn't changed much since KDJ's time, though I believe M2K did a few more things with her.

 

[mr.fizwidget]

do you know shieks d smash hits lower than where falcons up b can sweet spot?

and falcons tech roll is slow

 

[DJRome]

and you don't think falcon's metagame has changed since kdj's time?

 

[mr.fizwidget]

i guess they moonwalk more

 

[Dr Peepee]

Not....really.

KDJ's time was until Brawl came out we'll say. Since then, we've seen the rise of Hax and that guy who killed a lion, but I know for a fact the latter learned a lot from Darkrain. DR has been playing for a long time, and lion guy found a way to put his own spin on what DR had basically been doing for years.

Think about it. Falcon has DD camping, a staple Nair approach, a surprise knee kill, Bair walls, and a punishing stomp. Side B and upsmash occasionally are used for combo startups. Simply put, it is a few matchup tricks and grab to knee/tech chase knee. That's been done a long time, but people have just gotten better at it.

 

[vZakat]

You know nothing about bad match-ups. >_>

 

[AlcyoNite]

i think some (other) pros should have a look at this discussion. Is there a venue where cf and sheik can discuss this matchup? i may start a thread...

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's been discussed on the respective character boards, I'm sure.

Also, if you want me to get SoVa in here, I can at least get RHAN to give us his thoughts.

 

[null55]

DJ neither of us have anything to complain about. if Falcon even jumps the stock should be over.

i love playing Falcon though, not for that reason, for the same reason i like playing Fox... comboing dem **** is fun.


i need to work on comboing Marth though... it's slightly more annoying...

 

[DJRome]

except if i get grabbed i die, even more than if i grab falcon

 

[AlcyoNite]

It's been discussed on the respective character boards, I'm sure.

Also, if you want me to get SoVa in here, I can at least get RHAN to give us his thoughts.

much love to my crew mate, but my sheik will run laps around his...just sayin

 

[Dr Peepee]

Falcon doesn't always 0-death Sheik from a grab. If you think that then I give up on you.

Sheik needs a couple good reads, if that, from a grab to kill Falcon. Grab the edge=stock(again this is unless you can't edgeguard Falcon so it seems worse to you right now).

Edit: Theo, I just like it when RHAN namesearches.

 

[DJRome]

no, im saying cf grab = death more often than sheik grab. and sheik gets edgeguarded fairly well by falcon as well. not as much as the other way around, but it's not bad.

and pp, im still not saying it's an even matchup, just that it's not nearly the 70-30 everyone else things it is

 

[Dr Peepee]

no, im saying cf grab = death more often than sheik grab. and sheik gets edgeguarded fairly well by falcon as well. not as much as the other way around, but it's not bad.

and pp, im still not saying it's an even matchup, just that it's not nearly the 70-30 everyone else things it is

What are you basing this on? Personal experience?

I didn't say you thought it was even either. Numbers are dumb, but 60-40 or 65-35 would be where I put this.

 

[DJRome]

yes, i agree with 60-40. but then again, i don't see why i can't be confused about the matchup when it's that ratio

people do the same thing for other 60-40's, falco marth, sheik spacy, etc for the 60. it really irritates me when people like josh say that the matchup is 75-25/80-20

 

[Dr Peepee]

I'd say it could definitely be 65-35(counter) if the Sheik is gay enough, which she should be.

Falco-Marth is not 60/40.

Ehhh Sheik spacy......you Sheik players are weird.

 

[DJRome]

lol wut? everyone knows sheik spacy is 60-40 for spacies. and yet spacies complain. lol m2k-falco is not 60-40

 

[AlcyoNite]

lol m2k-falco is not 60-40

TRUE! get ***** pp

 

[Dr Peepee]

Uhhhh Marth vs Falco is even or 55/45 Marth.

Everyone knows this? I still don't think the advantage is that convincing.

 

[AlcyoNite]

Uhhhh Marth vs Falco is even or 55/45 Marth.

Everyone knows this? I still don't think the advantage is that convincing.

first thing ive ever seen u post that i completely disagree with

edit: just read the marth boards...they MUST have recently changed this. still, i would not give marth the advantage

 

[onlymaskde]

no, im saying cf grab = death more often than sheik grab. and sheik gets edgeguarded fairly well by falcon as well. not as much as the other way around, but it's not bad.

sheik is 3x better than falcon in basically every aspect. falcon can destroy sheik, but it's a lot, A LOT harder to do than it is for sheik.

cf grab = death more often than sheik grab is not true at all in the general matchup. it might be for you, though

 

[Dr Peepee]

first thing ive ever seen u post that i completely disagree with

Then tell me why you think it is what it is.

 

[DJRome]

like i've said before, once you get to a certain level, the tech skill is irrelevant. how much harder is it to waveshine vs tilt for pros? about the same success rate when they want it to come out. relatively, it may be harder, but the cool result is that the skill at high levels of play is the mind gaming and spacing, not the tech skill.

so technically harder, yes. actually harder? maybe not.

and while sheik's approach to the matchup is simpler, it doesn't make it necessarily easier. i agree it's easier, but not categorically based on its simplicity

 

[DUB]

Uhhhh Marth vs Falco is even or 55/45 Marth.

Everyone knows this? I still don't think the advantage is that convincing.

Thats what I've always heard. Dead even but not in Falcos.

 

[AlcyoNite]

sheik is 3x better than falcon in basically every aspect. falcon can destroy sheik, but it's a lot, A LOT harder to do than it is for sheik.

cf grab = death more often than sheik grab is not true at all in the general matchup. it might be for you, though

i agree with this; dj, u should learn to tech chase. a couple good reads and knowing how to pile on an optimum amount of damage from them should help a lot. Thats not to say I play this matchup fluently. i actually need to take some of my own advice with this one. I never actually researched/studied this matchup, i just usually use my tech chasing skills to grab falcon a lot. hmm...

 

[Dr Peepee]

It's just harder for Falcon to do his 'death' stuff than it is for Sheik because of the way the matchup works.

Considering I haven't looked at the Marth boards since very early 08, I'm not surprised. I'm gonna have a hard time swallowing Falco's favor in that matchup regardless.

 

[DUB]

and you still think IC vs. Shiek is even?